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haha, he failed
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Feb 16, 2021 06:18
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THE END
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Feb 16, 2021 07:33
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They only have one more day of dev time, right? drat, maybe if Tohru actually showed up the other day they would have had enough manpower to find and fix the bug before shipping a broken product.
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Feb 16, 2021 07:35
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Hot Stunt posted:They only have one more day of dev time, right? drat, maybe if Tohru actually showed up the other day they would have had enough manpower to find and fix the bug before shipping a broken product. Eh any bug major enough to be worth fixing this late very likely would be bad enough to likely not be safely fixed in time, since the fix would also need to be verified. My guess is NEET will feel like the game is very solid and bug-free, then it'll release riddled with edge case bugs and people will complain "did they even test this game?!"
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Feb 16, 2021 08:52
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He's gonna go full on Hideki Kamiya on everyone at 2chan.
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Feb 16, 2021 12:05
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Part time Tohru is super boring so far. Maybe it'll change. Crime Tohru is extremely depressed and hopeless, but has weird situations and interesting developments all the time. He's boxing hookers, intimidating other ex cons, that one time he killed himself on the train and inconvenienced those girls, he had a brief moment of happiness and romance then destroyed it. It's horrible and depressing but full of flavour Part timer is just counting down the days till this game is released. One time he glanced at the other neet and was briefly confused leaving an elevator, his boss is hot. That's it! I'm sure the comic will confound my expectations and get crazy
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Feb 16, 2021 12:24
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Cobra Lionfist posted:Part time Tohru is super boring so far. Maybe it'll change. Crime Tohru is extremely depressed and hopeless, but has weird situations and interesting developments all the time. He's boxing hookers, intimidating other ex cons, that one time he killed himself on the train and inconvenienced those girls, he had a brief moment of happiness and romance then destroyed it. It's horrible and depressing but full of flavour crime neet is going on tv once another -ake sibling starts translating it again
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Feb 16, 2021 12:40
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Feb 16, 2021 19:08
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I am confused by the kind of bug here. It's an RPG so wouldn't they have both the save file and the tester's memory of what happened when the "Type A" bug occurred? It's not like you just find out there's a bug somewhere with no context at all...
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Feb 16, 2021 19:13
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Sure, but that doesn't mean you can reliably reproduce the exact chain of events that led to it happening. If the game crashed, there's a million things that could've caused it or been a factor. Maybe the game clock, maybe an exact combo of equipment and spells being used, maybe fighting an enemy in one particular spot, who knows what memory bits might've had an effect. Even knowing that a crash happened in such and so conditions doesn't mean it's easy to track down what caused it and get it to happen again.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:39
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Probably, but the root cause could be something like "opened chests in the wrong order causing flag Y not to be set 20 hours ago" that is difficult to track down even with the save efb, etc.
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Feb 16, 2021 19:40
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NEET should actually count his blessings since he didn't discover the bug and so the other testers and the boss won't blame him. He's still gonna feel guilt for not being able to replicate it but oh well.
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Feb 16, 2021 20:07
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Obviously we're still 10+ years into the past, because a gaming company nowadays would just release their poo poo in early access and let the general public sort out the more elusive bugs
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Feb 16, 2021 21:40
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Devils Affricate posted:Obviously we're still 10+ years into the past, because a gaming company nowadays would just release their poo poo in early access and let the general public sort out the more elusive bugs I've spent the whole day today trying to mod a bug fix for a fully-released game. And looking at the other modders releasing tons of mods that are just bug fixes, it's hilarious to think that companies now not only outsource their bug finding to the public, but also the bug fixing. But it's not like companies 10 years ago weren't also releasing incredibly buggy games: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_glitches_(Generation_I) Aardvark! posted:I am confused by the kind of bug here. It's an RPG so wouldn't they have both the save file and the tester's memory of what happened when the "Type A" bug occurred? It's not like you just find out there's a bug somewhere with no context at all... As a concrete example of a non-obvious bug, the past few days I've stumbled across a bug in a game where if you take too many screenshots too quickly, it'll set itself up to crash when you save, which can be hours later. Shadow0 fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Feb 17, 2021 |
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Feb 17, 2021 05:44
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Shadow0 posted:I've spent the whole day today trying to mod a bug fix for a fully-released game. And looking at the other modders releasing tons of mods that are just bug fixes, it's hilarious to think that companies now not only outsource their bug finding to the public, but also the bug fixing. I remember almost a decade ago getting poo poo from some older grognards in my brother’s circle for questioning something like why they’d buy a tabletop game that cut a launch race or two from the release and then plan to reintroduce them later as a separate add on or something. The answer was obvious to me at the time, the company has correctly identified 95% of its customer base as complete rubes. Feels like the same thing is applying to video games these days too?
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Feb 17, 2021 06:05
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So, this is kind of a weird situation in real life. The comic is accurate in that when a showstopper is found late in a dev cycle, basically all other QA halts and just focuses entirely on trying to nail down that bug, with maybe a handful of testers focusing on normal tasks - with the size of NEET's team, I'd be surprised if more than a single person wasn't looking for that A bug. The thing is though, it's actually kind of rare for a game to get delayed because of repro steps on a bug not being nailed down. The bug will absolutely get written up as a "Seen Once" bug (which is always a mark of shame for a tester), and usually devs will try to fix it. Sometimes they'll be able to fix it, which hurray! Well, actually not hurray - without knowledge of exactly how to reproduce the bug, there's no way to verify that the bug is ACTUALLY fixed. Maybe the dev thought it was one thing and fixed that, but it was actually another thing and so the game gets released without the bug "really" being fixed. Sometimes the dev can't figure out how to fix the bug, and then we're back at square one with testers trying to reproduce it, except now everyone's set back a day or so by the whole runaround. Speaking of man hours, usually this late in a dev cycle multiple testers will be tasked with trying to nail down this bug - often the most experienced / talented testers, since the poo poo NEEDS nailing down. The problem there is those are some of the best man-hours the team has available, and they could have been spent on other tasks that need getting done. How long is "long enough" if they can't reproduce it? That's usually up to the project lead, but eventually someone will have to say "we tried our best, we can't devote anymore time to this" - at which point a producer will PROBABLY say it's okay to release with the bug. After all, more time spent looking for it won't guarantee it'll be found. Sometimes games just crash or some poo poo, computers are weird. And besides, if a team of trained specialists can't find the bug after hours / days of specifically searching for it, what are the chances some rando in the wild will run into it? So it gets released. Maybe a ton of people run into it and it becomes a huge problem that requires an emergency hotfix, maybe nobody runs into it and it's forgotten as some random fluke - I've seen both happen. This isn't really trying to defend or even rag on the thought process. There is some amount of justification behind "let the public test it" because sometimes the QA team just isn't big enough to handle finding some bugs - the largest team I've seen dedicated to a single game is like, 30-40 people. If a bug only has a one in ten thousand chance of occurring when you do X, then there's at best only like a 1/200 chance of a team that size running into it in the first place. Then you release the game to the public, it sells ten million copies, and there are now hundreds of people posting online about this horrible bug.
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Feb 17, 2021 06:23
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Crazyweasel posted:I remember almost a decade ago getting poo poo from some older grognards in my brother’s circle for questioning something like why they’d buy a tabletop game that cut a launch race or two from the release and then plan to reintroduce them later as a separate add on or something. The answer was obvious to me at the time, the company has correctly identified 95% of its customer base as complete rubes. Feels like the same thing is applying to video games these days too? Right around that time there was a lot of drama in video games around Day 1 DLC and On-Disc DLC - aka, paid downloadable content available the day the game released, or worse available already on the game disc, and the customer had to pay extra to unlock it. There were a lot of people convinced that much of this content was cut from the game and put behind a paywall, but honestly in my experience that's never been the case. Usually instead Day 1 / On-Disc DLC was content that was only possible due to the extra income it being DLC would provide - if it wasn't DLC, it never would have been included in the game at all. Not saying the whole "develop thing and then decide to paywall it" never happened, but I've never worked at a company that did that or known anyone that has. I haven't really seen that drama much anymore. I think either everyone has just accepted it as a fact of the industry, or companies have more shifted to F2P mechanics that get WAAAAY more predatory, to the point where releasing DLC just doesn't really register as bad by comparison. I'm not sure how tabletop games factor into this. I do know a BIT about tabletop game development, but not enough to really speak confidently about it - I could maybe see some of those races or something getting until the game sales justify finishing the design of them.
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Feb 17, 2021 06:49
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I still remember the outrage over the Oblivion Horse Armour. In Bethesdas defense all the DLC was actually made after the game was shipped.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:25
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Finding bugs in release games that you can intentionally recreate feels p rare to be honest. There were exploits that obviously someone discovered and were known in online video game communities that never got patched out that I knew of, like the quintessential dupe trick in the original diablo, but off the top of my head the only bug I could do on purpose I never heard about anywhere else was in mortal kombat gold (the mk4 remake) for the dreamcast, if you killed the very last boss in the single player mode with an ability that also caused a status effect (easy example being scorpion's "get over here") shinnok's death scene would get super glitched out. The whole background would go blue except for him and each of his frames would stay frozen so you'd get him snaking accross the screen like you just won an oldschool game of windows solitaire. For whatever reason I enjoyed that game and played through the arcade mode a ton, so I eventually sussed it out on how to trigger it and did it on purpose with every character that could. It wasn't game breaking, after the cutscene you'd get the same credits you normally would. Really what I'm trying to say here is I find it impressive anyone can even consistently find relevant bugs. I have a vague sense of games where i learned not to do x and y at the same time cause it might cause a freeze or games that were just generically buggy but I could never really replicate individual instances but really in my entire gaming career the only major "do this and you will repeatedly get a bug" example I can think of that I personally found without the aid of the internet was a mostly cosmetic bug in a game that almost certainly had a negligible budget.
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Feb 17, 2021 07:25
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Feb 17, 2021 08:08
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I imagine finding bugs gets 1000x more complicated when there's a physics engine, too. Multiple objects interacting at varying speeds, xyz axes, accounting for things like inertia and collision, etc. Like how you even bug test for something like Kerbal's is crazy.
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Feb 17, 2021 14:53
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Feb 17, 2021 21:21
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Amanuma.... 
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Feb 17, 2021 21:44
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Feb 18, 2021 05:12
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Feb 18, 2021 05:12
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Lmao
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Feb 18, 2021 05:19
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In 1972, a crack debugging unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime he didn't commit
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Feb 18, 2021 05:27
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That’s just the guy from liar game using a fake name he’s gonna scam Tohru now
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Feb 18, 2021 05:30
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Holy poo poo Ace of debugging
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Feb 18, 2021 05:30
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I knew this is gonna be shonen. I knew it.
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Feb 18, 2021 05:39
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I don't think NEET has the passion or willpower to support a rivalry.
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Feb 18, 2021 05:56
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Huh, I didn't know Shinobu could be a man's name.
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Feb 18, 2021 06:07
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W-what's up with this guy!? His debugging aura is overwhelming!
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Feb 18, 2021 06:23
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Stand name:「BUG ZAPPER」
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Feb 18, 2021 06:43
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debugging from such a height?!
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Feb 18, 2021 07:08
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Idle Amalgam posted:Lmao
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Feb 18, 2021 07:17
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"You utter fools. With the power of my Bagukyatchi technique, I can unlock the true potential of the debug menu!"
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Feb 18, 2021 07:43
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Idle Amalgam posted:Lmao
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Feb 18, 2021 07:49
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Saw this post in another thread and thought it was some deep NEET criticism for a sec.Belome posted:Is there a single video of this game where anything interesting or entertaining happens other than all the ridiculous bugs? It looks so boring and none of the things people talk about being so revolutionary actually exist
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Feb 18, 2021 09:08
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Shart Citizen is probably the only game that could destroy Tohru's love for bug testing.
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Feb 18, 2021 11:49
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