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There's a shot of that power readout on his head coming off and then dropping down to zero which I took as a symbol for dead. He also reappeared and disappeared at will earlier in the film so I reckon if he was still alive he would reform and continue fighting. However, should that series have continued he would have certainly been back, and I guess he's gonna be in MCU Spider-Man 3 so who knows.
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Feb 18, 2021 00:20
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to be clear if I point out teenage Peter Parker jettisoning a dude into space is pretty hosed up, most people just go "huh yeah it is" instead of trying to defend it and then five pages into the next Batman argument someone goes "Spider-man kills people and nobody talks about THAT," repeat cycle
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Feb 18, 2021 00:22
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Spider-man is the one character who legitimately should never kill, not even a weird monster(unless he's the Toku version). It's ok if he tries and fails to kill and feels like poo poo about it though.
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Feb 18, 2021 00:27
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Spider-man is the one character who legitimately should never kill, not even a weird monster(unless he's the Toku version). what if it's in self defense, or to save a life
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Feb 18, 2021 00:31
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To be perfectly honest I assumed that airlocking Ebony Maw would be a temporary inconvenience at best and was genuinely shocked when it apparently killed him, so I can’t put that one on Peter. loving Drax can survive being airlocked, dude. Get yourself a magic bubble helmet, you chump.
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Feb 18, 2021 00:31
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Lunatic Sledge posted:what if it's in self defense, or to save a life He would try and fail to save the life and then feel like poo poo about it. Or die and be replaced by a new Spiderman
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Feb 18, 2021 00:36
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Spider-man is the one character who legitimately should never kill, not even a weird monster(unless he's the Toku version). Does Spider-Man's "most everyman" superhero status mean he should never kill because most people will never kill... Or does it mean he should probably kill, albeit not intentionally, because if an everyman was a superhero (and not a competence god like Batman or an ability god like Superman) they're bound to kill someone on accident? (i really like the arc in daredevil where they talk about this) OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 00:48
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OnimaruXLR posted:Does Spider-Man's "most everyman" superhero status mean he should never kill because most people will never kill... Spider-Man did kill Gwen Stacey on accident. It's a bit of a famous moment in comic books.
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Feb 18, 2021 01:09
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STAC Goat posted:Yeah, its a limitation and it works with the kind of hero Batman is. Knowing the half insane, loner, violent vigilante who focuses on street crime has a self imposed line changes how you feel about him. Its the difference between Daredevil and Punisher. One has guilt and limits and one doesn't. I think it's neat that this rule is actually a source of intense conflict between him and other characters at times. Oftentimes Batman's shown to be right to get mad at someone who takes lives in too cavalier a fashion in the name of "justice", but other times it's not so cut and dry and Batman comes off as a moralizing prick for lecturing someone who made the best of a desperate situation. The rule makes him a more multi faceted character and can be a positive or a negative personality trait, just like his strong feelings on guns. You can ditch these character traits if you want to tell a different kind of story with a different kind of Batman, but calling people who think that's a bad call (or just don't find that decision interesting) childish or immature is missing the point imo, and just kinda dickish. And posting gifs of Iron Man blowing people up isn't a counterpoint to that because Iron Man is a completely different character motivated by different things. It's as absurd as posting a video of Blade chopping vampires in half at someone who questions the act of smothering a cancer patient in a drama.
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Feb 18, 2021 01:11
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The thing about "[hero] doesn't kill" is that it's a different kind of rule for different characters. "Batman doesn't kill" is an in-character rule that many versions of Batman have, because it demonstrates that he enforces limits on himself and works with the idea that he's struggling with his inner darkness. "Superman doesn't kill" or "Spider-Man doesn't kill" is an expression of an out-of-character concept, because Superman icing somebody is generally going to be tonally inappropriate.
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Feb 18, 2021 01:12
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Lunatic Sledge posted:what if it's in self defense, or to save a life Or just wolverines ex? C'mon, you gotta let him have at least that one.
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Feb 18, 2021 01:13
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I gotta put Superman over Spider-Man on the no kill line. Both are in firm "No" tier for me, but if I'm being ignored I gotta put Supes over. He already has all of the super powers. Once he's ok killing threats that are a bit high up the power scale, I struggle to find him easy to root for. A Superman with loose morals kinda instantly becomes the antagonist in the story at that point. Which I suppose is how we arrive at Red Son or Injustice.John Wick of Dogs posted:Spiderman killed Norman Osbourne. He appeared to me in a mirror and told me that's what happened. What's this? 50 missed calls from my old butler? Too busy to call him back. I thought we were supposed to leave Spider-Man 3 thinking the butler was in Harry's head. Did I make that up?
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Feb 18, 2021 01:16
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An interesting companion to Batman's no kill rule is Captain America. Now, Cap has killed, does kill and will kill when it is necessary. But, generally speaking, he tries very hard not to unless it is absolutely necessary, and he definitely wouldn't kill someone who has surrendered. But you say hey, that guy was a soldier in World War 2! Even if he only "knocked out" enemy soldiers, surely his squadmates were killing people left and right, and that includes people he'd just knocked the gun out of their hands. But that's where it gets interesting to me: even though Cap was an iconic propaganda image in WW2, when he came out of the ice he realized that the image of Captain America had grown well past something to motivate one side during a war, and that he now was a stand-in for the best ideals of an entire country. And that is why he tries not to kill. It's not just a matter of personal principles, it's about the symbolism that such an act would have. Cap tries to live up to the importance and idealism that his role represents, because he's not just keeping people safe on a literal level, he's trying to inspire them to be better, to be an example of what America could and should be. Sure, on a personal level he's a very good man with strong principles, but it goes beyond just him. He's aware his actions would have an effect beyond just the people directly involved, because of what he represents. And that is really interesting, especially for someone who really doesn't have that many powers.
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Feb 18, 2021 01:23
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SonicRulez posted:I gotta put Superman over Spider-Man on the no kill line. Both are in firm "No" tier for me, but if I'm being ignored I gotta put Supes over. He already has all of the super powers. Once he's ok killing threats that are a bit high up the power scale, I struggle to find him easy to root for. A Superman with loose morals kinda instantly becomes the antagonist in the story at that point. Which I suppose is how we arrive at Red Son or Injustice. The "world of cardboard" speech in JLU is a great line, but I agree it's hard to cheer for the actual actions. I read the butler the same way, but I think it's so ambiguous that "supposed to" isn't a factor.
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Feb 18, 2021 02:32
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Lunatic Sledge posted:what if it's in self defense, or to save a life Spider-Man accidentally killed someone and it tore him up. Like it really, really hosed him up for a long time and still lingers to this day. If he killed someone by choice that would probably be it for him. It would likely just destroy him emotionally and mentally and he wouldn't be able to continue.
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Feb 18, 2021 03:33
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There's a What If from the 90's I bought at a gas station where Peter accidentally beats the burglar who shot Uncle Ben to death and proceeds to go through the events of the first six issues of ASM but becoming an increasingly paranoid depressed wreck (like he basically has a panic attack while fighting Sandman and Flash is the one who figures out to suck him up with the big vacuum) until he finally turns himself in after beating the Lizard.
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Feb 18, 2021 03:40
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A recurring theme in Spider-Man, almost too recurring if you ask me, is his personal guilt over people that he believes are dead or hurt because of him. Whether directly or indirectly. The personal guilt he feels is kind of a defining trait and is the reason killing doesn't work for his character.
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Feb 18, 2021 03:51
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Around when Batman Begins came out there was a new animated series The Batman which was decidedly different than TAS and yeah probably not as great but it was interesting and ended up being quite good but people hated it without giving it a chance and were very judgmental and dismissive about it. And the same thing to a lesser extent when Batman Brave and the Bold came out(cause that had a bit more seperation by time and JLU was over it wasn't as immediately dismissed) The Batman started strong but eventually got around to introducing a very young Robin and only slightly older Batgirl and became incredibly kiddy incredibly fast at that point.
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Feb 18, 2021 04:04
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I...actually feel the other way. Early The Batman episodes felt like they were beaming toys into my skull. Once he got Batgirl and Robin to bounce off of, they started to tell some better stories. The Justice League worked too.
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Feb 18, 2021 04:42
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SonicRulez posted:I...actually feel the other way. Early The Batman episodes felt like they were beaming toys into my skull. Once he got Batgirl and Robin to bounce off of, they started to tell some better stories. The Justice League worked too. The only good season of The Batman is the last one. The first Harley episode was not good but the setting the woods on fire montage was.
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Feb 18, 2021 04:44
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Vince MechMahon posted:The only good season of The Batman is the last one. The first Harley episode was not good but the setting the woods on fire montage was. I quite like The Batman, but if there's one thing you're gonna watch from the series, make it that montage.
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Feb 18, 2021 04:53
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catlord posted:I quite like The Batman, but if there's one thing you're gonna watch from the series, make it that montage. It's the only time that show reached TAS levels in my opinion. https://youtu.be/StijWYGw6M0
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Feb 18, 2021 05:04
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SonicRulez posted:I...actually feel the other way. Early The Batman episodes felt like they were beaming toys into my skull. It would, like, download new enemies and poo poo on the toy.
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Feb 18, 2021 05:44
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FilthyImp posted:They kind of were. The wave 1 toys (like the Batmobile) had an LCD module that would pick up hypersonics on the broadcast and allow you to interact with the show when the Batwave activated. I had a toy jet that did this in the 80s. Some supergeneric sounding show like Captain Skyhawk or something. You would blast lasers at the tv show and move the toy out of view when the bad guys shot at the screen. Live action!
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Feb 18, 2021 05:50
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I had a toy jet that did this in the 80s. Some supergeneric sounding show like Captain Skyhawk or something.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R_aExKVUJg
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Feb 18, 2021 05:54
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Aliens don't have souls and their lives don't matter unless they're good friends with at least one human. Christ died to wash away the sins of MANkind, not kree kind or titan kind or whatever
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Feb 18, 2021 06:24
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That's why they figured gamora was okay to kill off and reboot
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Feb 18, 2021 06:30
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Reminds me of Samurai Jack where he absolutely wrecks robots and strange monsters because they don't have souls.
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Feb 18, 2021 06:59
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Madkal posted:Reminds me of Samurai Jack where he absolutely wrecks robots and strange monsters because they don't have souls. It's why they used sentinels so much in the X-Men cartoon from the 90s, you can show wolverine doing whatever you want to a robot.
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Feb 18, 2021 07:12
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Vince MechMahon posted:It's why they used sentinels so much in the X-Men cartoon from the 90s, you can show wolverine doing whatever you want to a robot. also why the Foot Soldiers were robots in the OG Ninja Turtles cartoon
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Feb 18, 2021 07:47
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Lunatic Sledge posted:also why the Foot Soldiers were robots in the OG Ninja Turtles cartoon
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Feb 18, 2021 08:05
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Lunatic Sledge posted:also why the Foot Soldiers were robots in the OG Ninja Turtles cartoon It breaks my heart that they weren't even allowed to hit robots starting with season 3.
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Feb 18, 2021 08:31
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Vince MechMahon posted:It's why they used sentinels so much in the X-Men cartoon from the 90s, you can show wolverine doing whatever you want to a robot. And why they killed off all the original Transformers in the '86 movie to make room for new toys, and figured kids wouldn't care, they're just robots.
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Feb 18, 2021 10:03
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Vince MechMahon posted:It's why they used sentinels so much in the X-Men cartoon from the 90s, you can show wolverine doing whatever you want to a robot. You can't show him loving one!
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Feb 18, 2021 12:40
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Buddy, they won't even let me gently caress it.
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Feb 18, 2021 14:32
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I bet they would let Cyclops
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Feb 18, 2021 16:21
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I bet they would let Cyclops He's the only X-Man who's got the willpower and cool head under pressure to do it right.
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Feb 18, 2021 16:43
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John Wick of Dogs posted:I bet they would let Cyclops I mean throw a red wig on any inanimate object a week after Jean grey dies.
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Feb 18, 2021 17:07
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Lurdiak posted:It breaks my heart that they weren't even allowed to hit robots starting with season 3. I'm guessing this is around the time Mikey's weapon of choice became a grappling hook.
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Feb 18, 2021 17:31
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SonicRulez posted:I thought we were supposed to leave Spider-Man 3 thinking the butler was in Harry's head. Did I make that up? The butler gives Harry new information only he had. Lunatic Sledge posted:to be clear if I point out teenage Peter Parker jettisoning a dude into space is pretty hosed up, most people just go "huh yeah it is" instead of trying to defend it It's Peter's idea (because of Aliens), but Tony does all of it. Still legally responsible I suppose. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 18, 2021 |
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Feb 18, 2021 19:11
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