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Not sure how much of this deserves to be in spoilers but re: Monica Rambeau in the comics: She was introduced nearly forty years ago. She's appeared in 500+ comic book issues in those four decades. She was a member of the Avengers in the 1980s for about five years, ending up their leader at the tail end of that run. In the past decade she's been a member of various iterations of Avengers/Avengers subteams (The Mighty Avengers, The Ultimates, Strikeforce) teaming with Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Luke Cage, Carol Danvers, and other big Comics/MCU characters. Also in 2006 she was a member of Nextwave, a parody team book with middling sales written by someone who has since been revealed to have a long career of predatory behavior towards women. This book is rarely explicitly referenced outside of its own run, has a characterization of Monica Rambeau that doesn't really mesh with any of her appearances before or after Nextwave, but it does have some 'funny panels' people really enjoy posting. So I suppose it's possible that this is the background that they'll use for the character in their Cinematic Universe. I know people believed the "Ellis Ave" sign in last week's episode was a reference to the aforementioned sex creep. No word on what Rolling Hills Lane is meant to signify in this formulation, or any of the other visible signs throughout the series.
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Feb 19, 2021 15:48
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BrianWilly posted:I think it probably is the Darkhold. There could be any number of reasons why it doesn't look like it does in AoS, up to and including them just not caring enough about AoS They wouldn't do the Darkhold, AND a hula girl in on the van's dashboard and then have the Darkhold not be the AoS version.
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Feb 19, 2021 15:57
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Edge & Christian posted:Not sure how much of this deserves to be in spoilers but re: Monica Rambeau in the comics: THANK YOU for saying this. I never got any of the love for Nextwave - Monica was an amazing character and Ellis decided to do whatever he wanted with her because “hurf durf traditional superhero comics are so dumb look how cool and edgy I am”. As far as I’m concerned it was an out of continuity story and the less it’s referenced the better off we are. I got into the Avengers as a kid in the mid 80s and Monica WAS the team in my eyes. She went through some amazing character development and became not only the most likable member of the team, but also the most powerful and eventually their chairperson. I’m beyond happy she’s poised to get a starring role in the MCU. If anyone has Marvel Unlimited, read Roger Stern’s incredible run on the Avengers from the mid to late 1980’s. You’ll gain a huge appreciation for Monica Rambeau and get some insight on how her powers may work in the show.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:09
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live with fruit posted:You kind of do in an action-adventure show. Wandavision hasn't really been an action-adventure show up to this point, and it only has two episodes left. live with fruit posted:It's still the MCU. At some point, they do have to get to the fireworks factory. Not in a TV show they don't. They can absolutely wrap this plot up in a way that doesn't veer hard left from the rest of the show up to this point, while establishing some new characters who can throw lasers in upcoming movies. Vintersorg posted:Well that sure was a few mins of plot in a 30 minute episode. Back to a mystery box again. Vision finally learned about his past, Monica got superpowers, and the villain was revealed. This had some of the most conclusive storytelling of the show so far.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:15
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I hope the next two episodes are longer than 30 minutes. This one was good but with the credits and intro graphics, still under 30 minutes. I wonder if they are done with the sitcom part now. The end of this one really has me wanting to see the last two quick. So many questions left.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:18
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sethsez posted:Not in a TV show they don't. They can absolutely wrap this plot up in a way that doesn't veer hard left from the rest of the show up to this point, while establishing some new characters who can throw lasers in upcoming movies. Feige's said that the shows are just as important as the movies, and they're pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into them, so of course they're still going to have their superheroes do superhero stuff.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:22
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I thought Billy's remark about Agatha being silent was an allusion to her having telepathy / mind control powers of her own, so she would be blocking Billy? That's what they showed at the "twist" too, she's mind-controlling Wanda on some level.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:23
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Spacebump posted:I wonder if they are done with the sitcom part now. The end of this one really has me wanting to see the last two quick. So many questions left. I have a pet theory that the second to last episode will be a extremely meta behind-the-scenes making of featurette about the production of Wandavision starring Agatha Harkness as the director, and then the last episode will drop the pretense fully.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:24
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Also with the reveal that it was Agatha all along!~ I am wondering if Agatha is also under the control of someone else because she is also breaking the 4th wall, kinda implying there is something controlling her too. Also isn't she traditionally a hero? My other theory is that Westview is and is residence are natively supernatural? That is why magic users are drawn there but Agatha isn't from this universe since she is quiet after all. Also, if you haven't seen Modern Family, Elizabeth Olson is doing a great homage to the delivery of Julie Bowen who is the main mom of Modern Family.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:24
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Spacebump posted:I hope the next two episodes are longer than 30 minutes. This one was good but with the credits and intro graphics, still under 30 minutes. Given that ending song there's some places they could definitely go with "sitcom parts" still
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Feb 19, 2021 16:24
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ghostwritingduck posted:How did you get that from this episode? Agatha controlling him on the doorstep. Also the only multiverse explaination is that the audience associates him with another superhero property. But yet he doesn't appear in the episode at all other than a mention and not a single other multiverse thing has happened yet. There might be 2 or 3 episodes left and now with a new big bad.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:28
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Bedshaped posted:Agatha controlling him on the doorstep. Also the only multiverse explaination is that the audience associates him with another superhero property. But yet he doesn't appear in the episode at all other than a mention and not a single other multiverse thing has happened yet. There might be 2 or 3 episodes left and now with a new big bad. Go back and watch the post credits scene. It’s between the English language credits and the credits for other languages.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:30
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Wanda creating a villain to make herself feel like this isn't her fault would be pretty amazing, and sounds like the most interesting story path that could be taken from here to close things out. I don't think they'll do that, since it seems like one step too far away from the traditional beats of the MCU for a show that's already been really unlike anything else the MCU has done and that doesn't give you the easy "but she was manipulated!" path back to Wanda being a superhero, but that reveal feels like it would fit right in to this show and make a lot of sense. Seems like episode 8 will unpack what really has gone down and fill in a lot of story gaps, and then 9 can be a big flashy superhero fight and the denouement.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:36
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drat, there are post credits scenes? time to go back and rewatch every episode
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Feb 19, 2021 16:37
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GPTribefan posted:THANK YOU for saying this. I never got any of the love for Nextwave - Monica was an amazing character and Ellis decided to do whatever he wanted with her because “hurf durf traditional superhero comics are so dumb look how cool and edgy I am”. As far as I’m concerned it was an out of continuity story and the less it’s referenced the better off we are. Nextwave was funny and is probably the reason everyone one of those characters got a resurgence in popularity instead of being lost to the 80s and 90s
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Feb 19, 2021 16:37
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Bedshaped posted:drat, there are post credits scenes? Only on this last episode!!! Although it's good re-watching the episodes and catching new details.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:38
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Desperado Bones posted:Only on this last episode!!! I tried that once but after episode 3, every new episode recontextualizes everything before it 
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Feb 19, 2021 16:44
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live with fruit posted:Feige's said that the shows are just as important as the movies, and they're pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into them, so of course they're still going to have their superheroes do superhero stuff. They've been doing superhero and supervillain stuff from the very beginning of the show, just in a new and interesting way that works far better in a TV format than it could as a movie. Exploring the ways these powers can be used beyond throwing lasers isn't somehow inherently worth less than (or less costly than) big fight scenes. I mean, yes, it'll probably end with a big dumb fight, but your initial claim was that this is an action-adventure show and it really hasn't been so far, seven episodes into a nine episode series. It's a puzzle box show, and it doesn't seem like an accident that Disney+'s major expensive MCU TV series has taken on one of the most lucrative genres of modern serialized TV rather than just chopping up an MCU movie into half-hour chunks. And the "fireworks factory" for this genre isn't a big fight, it's a big reveal.
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Feb 19, 2021 16:53
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Why is everyone so sure the Pietro and Monica are going to throw down? Also, despite her theme song and "AND I KILLED SPARKY!" , the times when Agatha's was shown using her powers were either (a) trying to get Vision to question this reality, or (b) directly trying to question Wanda about what's going on. So there's probably more to her than just "ooga-booga, I'm the bad witch".
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Feb 19, 2021 16:55
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Now that there are two witches, S.W.O.R.D. will have to brief their troops "the good witch is our friend. Dont shoot the red witch", and Darcy or Woo will say "its more of a scarlet then straight red." And bam, she has a cheeky nickname now
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Feb 19, 2021 17:05
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Technowolf posted:Why is everyone so sure the Pietro and Monica are going to throw down? Yeah that's something I noticed. Almost all of Agatha's actions were based around waking Vision up and potentially breaking the sitcom illusion, which would seem to be at odds with the idea that Agatha is actually behind what's going on in Westview; I'm pretty sure that Wanda is ultimately the one who kidnapped a town and Agatha is just trying to incidentally steer things towards her own goals.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:06
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sethsez posted:They've been doing superhero and supervillain stuff from the very beginning of the show, just in a new and interesting way that works far better in a TV format than it could as a movie. Exploring the ways these powers can be used beyond throwing lasers isn't somehow inherently worth less than (or less costly than) big fight scenes. Nothing is worth more or less than anything else, it's all personal preference. I'm just saying that this is still an MCU show and they''re 20 for 20 going into WandaVision being an action series. live with fruit fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 17:08
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Proud that not only was I right that she was totally doing a command when see says "You want to me to hold the babies!" But shoutout to the person who said she's the director based on that. My big predictions: -- Wanda can warp reality and is responsible for everything in that sense -- Agatha can only control and influence people's minds. She pushed Wanda to do a lot of this, but Wanda went through a lot of it on her own because she had Vision. -- Agatha had the line about not being able to control children. So, I think literally she can't control children the same as adults. The kids can only really exist with some context to make influencing them easier like Halloween or the line of kids that go pass the bus. You can't turn them into these robots as the case with the other people. This is supported a bit by Pietro's line last episode -- Pietro really is Fox Pietro --- My guess is going to be the kid are real and are the product of Vision and Wanda just having sex with a little aid of reality warping which Agatha didn't control. Their existence is a huge thorn in Agatha's side and probably they key to her undoing -- The weird dungeon thing is real. Westview is and always has been the Nexus. Agatha has just been using Wanda as a distraction while she does her deeper and darker plans. --Vision is going to die again at the end of all of this, but Wanda will get the kind goodbye and closure they need. I think Wanda is probably going away because regardless, she really has been culpable in Agatha's plan. There's going to be a stinger about the kids going to Xavier's.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:09
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Technowolf posted:Why is everyone so sure the Pietro and Monica are going to throw down? Knowing that she's not "bad" in the comics makes it a lot more likely that there's more going on with her and her motivations here for sure.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:16
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Rappaport posted:I thought Billy's remark about Agatha being silent was an allusion to her having telepathy / mind control powers of her own, so she would be blocking Billy? That's what they showed at the "twist" too, she's mind-controlling Wanda on some level. Thinking more about it, Billy's line would fit in with any of the theories, really: (1) if Agatha 'isn't real', then she's 'quiet' because the only part of her that exists is Wanda's influence, (2) if she's the Big Bad then either she's blocking him or she's just quiet because she's the only one not screaming inside. She's the only one not trapped.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:18
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah that's something I noticed. She got very interested when Billy or Tommy asked Wanda to bring the dog back to life and now we know she's the one who killed the dog so it seems like she's interested in bringing someone back from the dead.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:18
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Agnes doesnt wear her broach in scenes after the kids are born, and in her reveal, the kids are missing and she has it again. I think the kids were fake using broach magic and she has re-absorbed them into it
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Feb 19, 2021 17:25
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Didn't Agnes say she wasn't in town when Wanda and Vision arrived? She said her mother in law was in town so she wasn't or something like that in episode 1? Seems like that might be important.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:28
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I loved Vision's response to being interviewed. I was thinking the exact same thing and it made me wonder just how self-aware and freed the characters were. Specifically how they went along with the traffic light shenanigans.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:31
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In a way it's kind of anticlimactic that it was Agatha All Along after weeks of theorizing but ultimately worth it for that villain song and Kathryn Hahn getting to be the big bad. I need to chill out and just watch for the spectacle now.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:32
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This is almost certainly gonna end with a big goofy CGI fight, I just hope it's more Strange vs. Dormammu and less almost every other climactic MCU battle. I liked Monica becoming Photon and lol at the big vehicle being completely pointless except as motivation for her to just charge in herself. With all that build-up, those soldiers gotta be Skrulls, yeah? Appreciate Darcy's commitment to following traffic laws in the fake reality and the mailman continuing to be way too present and observant Timeless Appeal posted:--Vision is going to die again at the end of all of this, but Wanda will get the kind goodbye and closure they need. Yeah I can't see a satisfactory ending to this with him coming out alive, even if he's somehow diminished.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:34
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah that's something I noticed. Agatha is typically portrayed as good in the comics. She's similar to Doctor Strange, appearing in times of need or to act as a mentor/guardian role. "It was Agatha all along" is out of character for her, so this might be a fake out or an MCU rework.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:34
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Ouhei posted:Didn't Agnes say she wasn't in town when Wanda and Vision arrived? She said her mother in law was in town so she wasn't or something like that in episode 1? Seems like that might be important. During the "Agatha All Along" bit, it begins with her flying/floating into town, and then transforming her look and going black-and-white to fit into the town.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:37
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double negative posted:This is almost certainly gonna end with a big goofy CGI fight, I just hope it's more Strange vs. Dormammu and less almost every other climactic MCU battle. There's also the question of "Against whom?" There's four superheroes inside the Hex, assuming Vision can snap Quicksilver out of Agatha's control, which seems like it'd be overkill for just Agatha. It could also be Hayward but he's yet to even hint that he's got that big of a card up his sleeve.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:39
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Klungar posted:During the "Agatha All Along" bit, it begins with her flying/floating into town, and then transforming her look and going black-and-white to fit into the town. Which suggests that she didn't have anything to do with Wanda creating the Hex.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:40
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live with fruit posted:There's also the question of "Against whom?" There's four superheroes inside the Hex, assuming Vision can snap Quicksilver out of Agatha's control, which seems like it'd be overkill for just Agatha. It could also be Hayward but he's yet to even hint that he's got that big of a card up his sleeve. Ralph maybe?
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Feb 19, 2021 17:40
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live with fruit posted:Which suggests that she didn't have anything to do with Wanda creating the Hex. If it helps with theories Agatha is also the person in the comics that reveals that the twins aren't real... Which leads to all kinds of fun. poo poo gonna get wild next ep
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Feb 19, 2021 17:45
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Infinitum posted:If it helps with theories Agatha is also the person in the comics that reveals that the twins aren't real... Which leads to all kinds of fun. poo poo gonna get wild next ep There's so many dangling plot threads, plus the action scene they've hyped, plus the Luke Skywalker cameo, that there's no way the next two episodes are half an hour.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:49
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StrugglingHoneybun posted:Agnes doesnt wear her broach in scenes after the kids are born, and in her reveal, the kids are missing and she has it again. I think the kids were fake using broach magic and she has re-absorbed them into it I don't think they're going to go with the twins being entirely fake in the show, because A) the twins being fake and Wanda going full on baby-crazy was widely considered to be one of the worst story moves in Marvel history for a long time, and B) the twins are some of the few LGBT characters Marvel has gotten any traction with and they just had a crossover-event that elevated Billy's standing in the comics universe, so I don't think they would kill them off unceremoniously like that. The twins might end up belonging to an alternate universe Wanda, or something. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 17:50
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Ugly John posted:Thinking more about it, Billy's line would fit in with any of the theories, really: (1) if Agatha 'isn't real', then she's 'quiet' because the only part of her that exists is Wanda's influence, (2) if she's the Big Bad then either she's blocking him or she's just quiet because she's the only one not screaming inside. She's the only one not trapped. I 100% assumed it’s the last thing you mentioned. Agatha is the only person who’s been fully conscious of what’s been going on and willingly playing along. There’s no Real Person beneath the surface subconsciously terrified of what’s going on. Unlike everyone else, her Vision “snapped out of it” encounter was a put-on, which doesn’t jibe with the “Wanda created her!” theory. Billy started talking about how loud things were after Wanda expanded the Hex, too, which supports the idea that he’s hearing these possessed people subconsciously cry out for help.
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Feb 19, 2021 17:59
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