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Cardiovorax posted:If something looks like a boring and lovely playing experience, it probably is in fact a boring and lovely playing experience. That said this only applies to how they are actually playing it, I've encountered quite a few streamers/youtubers making things look boring and lovely because they are playing stuff in a specific way(like ignoring tutorials and ignoring core mechanics) while actually playing it myself in other more intended and supported ways is lots of fun.
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Feb 19, 2021 13:41
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Hel posted:That said this only applies to how they are actually playing it, I've encountered quite a few streamers/youtubers making things look boring and lovely because they are playing stuff in a specific way(like ignoring tutorials and ignoring core mechanics) while actually playing it myself in other more intended and supported ways is lots of fun.
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Feb 19, 2021 13:47
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The Evil Within just won't end  I don't even hate it, but like God. Steam says I've spent 11.4 hours, but it feels like more On the subject of the Silent Hill clones and that IP, there have been just so many Silent Hill clones and homages of varying quality, but none of them hit it out of the park because the 'real' SH experience for many is dependent on capturing not just fog and rust, but a profound sense of otherworldliness. This is something that the earlier SH games nailed by accident. They stumbled rear end backwards into it. It's a combination of Yamaoka music hitting just right, janky animations, awkward translation issues, graphics that are evocative, but still primitive enough that the imagination is filling in some blanks, and most of all, the stilted, awkward dialogue and interactions between characters. All of that comes together to create a world that's askew, that's not right--and that feeling is necessary to get the most out of the SH pleasure buttons. The newer SH games have bad, but more natural dialogue, and better graphics and so forth, creating a world that doesn't have that same perfect storm of weirdness while the rust and fleshy monsters that they do have is old news that we're tired of. This is one of the reasons that the first SH movie didn't completely work; the acting, dialogue, and interactions were largely reasonable rather than cryptic and borderline nonsensical. The weirdness of the setting was all clearly explained. SH is supposed to be weird, ambiguous, and a little rough around the edges--not straightforward and polished. The filmmaking deficiencies of the second SH movie actually felt more like SH, at least toward the beginning for that reason.
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Feb 19, 2021 14:44
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Evil Within is like 20 hours, definitely longer than the average survival horror
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Feb 19, 2021 14:49
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Regarde Aduck posted:Silent hill 1 but i'm guessing you've played that Hah, yeah, exactly. Though in a modern take I'd see something more like, a protag who dips into the just-a-dream world, but then as the game goes on and their trauma worsens, the dream starts to bleed out into reality and affect other people.
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Feb 19, 2021 14:51
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Danknificent posted:On the subject of the Silent Hill clones and that IP, there have been just so many Silent Hill clones and homages of varying quality, but none of them hit it out of the park because the 'real' SH experience for many is dependent on capturing not just fog and rust, but a profound sense of otherworldliness. I hate to bring up the comparison because it's cliche, but I do believe that the Dark Souls franchise ultimately inherited a lot of the Silent Hill mantle. You have the same oppressive and hostile atmosphere, the same dream-logic dialogue that only ever almost makes sense, and the same uncanny feeling of seeing traditional Western culture filtered through an outsider's perspective. Obviously they're two very different franchises in almost every other regard, but I feel like they hit very similar moods.
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Feb 19, 2021 18:49
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King of Bleh posted:I hate to bring up the comparison because it's cliche, but I do believe that the Dark Souls franchise ultimately inherited a lot of the Silent Hill mantle. You have the same oppressive and hostile atmosphere, the same dream-logic dialogue that only ever almost makes sense, and the same uncanny feeling of seeing traditional Western culture filtered through an outsider's perspective. So you're saying Dark Souls is the Silent Hill of action rpgs. I disagree with what you're saying, mostly - Dark Souls is gothic, dark (hah), and in some ways...scattered in the world's existence, but the world is still grounded: people know what's going on, everything has a sort of actual permanent existence in the world (enemies notwithstanding), and it feels like everything in it was still built, or even corrupted, by man. And it never quite feels like the world is out to get you, simply the creatures in it. But I see where you're coming from. It's a sort of unreal situation that the player character is placed in - doubly so if this is the first Souls game the player has experience with.
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Feb 19, 2021 19:54
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Morpheus posted:And it never quite feels like the world is out to get you, simply the creatures in it. Actually I think you'll find that every poison zone is out to get you 
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Feb 19, 2021 19:56
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al-azad posted:A style of horror that wouldn’t work in America because after the first night you’d just buy a gun. Very interested in a hypothetical game where night 1 is a terrifying ordeal, the protagonist drives to walmart and buys a gun, then night 2 is over as soon as the monster shows its face.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:02
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Morpheus posted:I disagree with what you're saying, mostly - Dark Souls is gothic, dark (hah), and in some ways...scattered in the world's existence, but the world is still grounded: people know what's going on, everything has a sort of actual permanent existence in the world (enemies notwithstanding), and it feels like everything in it was still built, or even corrupted, by man. And it never quite feels like the world is out to get you, simply the creatures in it.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:04
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Morpheus posted:So you're saying Dark Souls is the Silent Hill of action rpgs. Depends on what area and game you are talking about for a lot of that. There's a lot of ink spilled about the idea of corruption that permeates a lot of (iirc) Dark Souls 3, that creatures that are slowly being turned into eldrich horrors by the light being sucked out of the world. Creatures that are normally either passive or at least dangerous in a mundane way start going insane and mutating into beasts because of the changing world, not because of individual qualities. Yes the setting is Gothic instead of modern (well, Midwest 90s modern), but I can see the comparison. That being said, a huge part of what gave games like SH their atmosphere is how awful they were to play. They were clunky and confusing and combat was repetitive, and it basically played into the atmosphere almost entirely by accident. I don't know if you could really get away with making such a mechanically annoying game nowadays. You have games that remove agency by being super hard (Dark Souls) or just by being extraordinarily oppressive (Pathologic), but at least for big name games it isn't worth the risk. Anyways, everyone knows The Cat Lady was the best spiritual sequel to SH. Eox posted:Very interested in a hypothetical game where night 1 is a terrifying ordeal, the protagonist drives to walmart and buys a gun, then night 2 is over as soon as the monster shows its face. That's why FNAF has you working for the company, because you really need that paycheck. Otherwise it would just be like that Willy's Wonderland movie that just came out which was amazing and without flaws.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:06
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I'd kind of love a game that has all the setup and elements of horror but all of the characters are entirely reasonable and stable and wind up just absolutely owning a succession of murderers/freaky phenomena/trauma-reliving sentient towns/eldritch horrors.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:16
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd kind of love a game that has all the setup and elements of horror but all of the characters are entirely reasonable and stable and wind up just absolutely owning a succession of murderers/freaky phenomena/trauma-reliving sentient towns/eldritch horrors. World of Horror?
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Feb 19, 2021 20:17
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd kind of love a game that has all the setup and elements of horror but all of the characters are entirely reasonable and stable and wind up just absolutely owning a succession of murderers/freaky phenomena/trauma-reliving sentient towns/eldritch horrors. Isn't this sort of the premise of Sinking City? Never played it. Control is basically this, but in a corporate setting. "Yeah Agent Carlyle just got absorbed into the building, drat shame, should've followed procedure. Anyway who's up for a game of poker after the shift?" Edit: Oh wait I see what you're saying. Yeah, that'd be neat to see people that aren't, like, perplexed at the zombies walking down the street - they're the walking dead, something hosed up happen, they've seen enough movies to know what to do. Morpheus fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 20:19
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CuddleCryptid posted:World of Horror? Yeah, roughly in that vein, but with less exploiting card synergies and a more complete victory at the end. So only the initial premise is horror, the rest is the player characters ruthlessly destroying the horror. There are a bunch of possible gameplay or stlyistic ways to approach it, ofc, but really I think I'm visualizing a modern, sensible Scooby Doo remake. "apparently the book will drive you insane if you read it" "okay, let's burn it." "agreed" "we are all borne of the heart of the world, to which we shall inevitably return! An undulating thing of unnatural flesh! Bask! Bask in the madness of the dark revelation!" "Okay, one, no. Two, even if that were the case it doesn't change what we're doing." "So I can shoot him now, right?" "Yeah, go for it." "oh god, I recognize this rusted hallway. This is the hospital where I was raped!" "Are you okay?" "Yeah, I've had several years of very productive therapy. It's just vaguely discomfiting." "Well let us know if there's anything we can do, or if you want to talk." "Absolutely." "Oh, and clearly there's a malign intelligence trying to prey on our past traumas." "Yep. Seems so far like it can only do one of us at a time. We can probably exploit that." "Each of you are here in my torture chamber because you are a murderer!" "Is anyone here related to Nathan Richards?" "I was Nathan's father. I remmber you from the trial." "Okay, so, yes, I murdered Nathan in a drunk driving accident, and got off on a technicality." "I am aware, and I haven't forgiven you for that, but we should focus on getting out of here. Now, I euthanized a young woman at the hospital I worked at- Mia Liu?" "That was my sister! But, yeah, no, I get the deal. I've noticed we all have a number tattooed on the backs of our heads- who wants to start a list?" "Youuuuu murdereddddd meeee" "I, uh, yes, I do remember murdering you. You were very annoying. Still are, apparently." Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 20:20
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Dunno if World of Horror counts. Most mysteries you only barely solve in any permanent way and many others you merely fail slighly less badly even if you get the best ending. It's very much a game about people in over their head and just very, very barely scratching out a win.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:21
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I feel like the later Resident Evils, really anything with Chris Redfield, started to become this. Taking down biological monstrosities was just his job, and he was getting very good at it. It's hard to be surprised by the tenth walking mound of muscle, flesh, and eyeballs that you've seen that year.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:24
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King of Bleh posted:I hate to bring up the comparison because it's cliche, but I do believe that the Dark Souls franchise ultimately inherited a lot of the Silent Hill mantle. You have the same oppressive and hostile atmosphere, the same dream-logic dialogue that only ever almost makes sense, and the same uncanny feeling of seeing traditional Western culture filtered through an outsider's perspective. CuddleCryptid posted:You have games that remove agency by being super hard (Dark Souls) holy poo poo I have been sitting on a thought about game design for like two days now because I didn't want to rush in here and yell DARK SOULS but all the talk about the game mechanics of Silent Hill and combat in survival horror games made me think about what I would do, personally, with combat if I tried to make a Silent Hill, and that's roughly the conclusion I reached. If I took the combat of SH and wanted to make it more fun without making the character feel too powerful, it would be by: - varying the movesets of melee weapons, but still limiting them to like two or three swings and a running attack - putting a lot of focus on animated tells, windup and downtime, so combat becomes a little timing puzzle in itself - creating a lot of diversity in enemy behavior to further emphasize that puzzle; make each new enemy attack with different timing and have new tricks, aim to surprise the player, always make them be learning - make the enemies hostile and sometimes FEEL unpredictable or chaotic until the player learns them - giving the player some kind of low key, restrained defense move, like a dodge-- and then I realized what I was doing
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Feb 19, 2021 20:47
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Discendo Vox posted:I'd kind of love a game that has all the setup and elements of horror but all of the characters are entirely reasonable and stable and wind up just absolutely owning a succession of murderers/freaky phenomena/trauma-reliving sentient towns/eldritch horrors. Have you seen You’re Next? It’s a horror thriller where the protag is the competent killer.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:53
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King of Bleh posted:I hate to bring up the comparison because it's cliche, but I do believe that the Dark Souls franchise ultimately inherited a lot of the Silent Hill mantle. You have the same oppressive and hostile atmosphere, the same dream-logic dialogue that only ever almost makes sense, and the same uncanny feeling of seeing traditional Western culture filtered through an outsider's perspective.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:58
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The controls on Little Nightmares 2 seem a lot tighter than the first. I'm dying a lot more to dumb impatience than just straight up not grabbing poo poo even though I PRESSED THE drat BUTTON in comparison to the first game. No idea who thought this series needed combat, though, it's not the worst but it doesn't actually add anything. I'm enjoying it a lot, although I'm giving a slight edge to the original just off personal preference. LN1 wasn't afraid to throw in some color now and then, and it had a nice little well-paced story that wasn't exactly masterful but was fun enough. I have no clue why Mono and Six are doing or going to any of the things and places that they are. Like wtf this school is dangerous as poo poo just leave lol
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Feb 19, 2021 21:02
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The big difference between Dark Souls gameplay and Silent Hill gameplay is that Dark Souls gameplay is difficult while Silent Hill gameplay is simply bad.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:02
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Following on Scrutinized and how begrudgingly the developer put in the less-bullshit mode, one thing that I think it integral to good horror game design, and is also an immense asset to any game, is something Silent Hill did all the way back- allow you to customized different parts of the game. It was as simple as Combat Difficulty and Puzzle Difficulty, and you can see the principle at maximum degree with Control (I think Alien Isolation did this too?) but it understood that if you want a game to be scary, you have to allow the player to tweak parts of it so they don't end up frustrated and losing a lot of the scare potential to being pissed you've been stuck on a puzzle for two hours, or keep getting killed at a boss. If the developer of Welcome to the Game 2 wanted some true, serious replayable content, they would have included a few dozen customizable options. Like how often each killer shows up, if they even can show up, cranking the difficulty of one to max for a 1-on-1 while leaving the others as very rare surprises, changing the difficulty of hacks, maybe an extra difficulty up and down to the online hunt stuff, an endless mode; that's the kind of package and accessibility that will get many people playing at their own pace and enjoyment.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:05
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One style I enjoy for horror combat is glass cannon, where you're potent enough to kill fast and hard, but you need to get the drop on enemies to do it or else you'll be ripped apart. Then it feeds the tension of being empowered, but only if you're paranoid, anxious, attentive, and jumpy enough to sneak around until you can get the drop.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:07
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Black August posted:One style I enjoy for horror combat is glass cannon, where you're potent enough to kill fast and hard, but you need to get the drop on enemies to do it or else you'll be ripped apart. Then it feeds the tension of being empowered, but only if you're paranoid, anxious, attentive, and jumpy enough to sneak around until you can get the drop. I mean, sure, a werewolf can tear out my throat in a single bite, but in the end, so can a tiger. If I can shoot it in the head and it dies then that means is's certainly dangerous, but it's just not horrifying in that semi-instinctual way that any really good monster concept is.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:21
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The people talking about souls games and silent hill games really should check out the ps1 king's field titles, they're definitely janky in terms of combat but they also ooze this weird feeling of horror and dread as you're walking slowly around and exploring a cursed royal family tomb/cursed island/cursed kingdom respectively. e:        
FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 19, 2021 |
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Feb 19, 2021 21:33
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That's Evil Within, isnt it I want a Home Alone horror game. Horrors are coming to get your family and the only way to stop them is cans and strings at head height
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Feb 19, 2021 21:42
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Fingerless Gloves posted:I want a Home Alone horror game. Horrors are coming to get your family and the only way to stop them is cans and strings at head height That's Lakeview Cabin
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Feb 19, 2021 21:45
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As far as I know, little to no horror games have taken on the Silent Hill series' most incredible simple horror trick, which is to play mundane-but-uncomfortable sounds at 500% volume so even the simple act of opening a gate feels awful and oppressive.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:47
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sound design was 60% of why Silent Hill did so well, easily the main workhorse of that series very few horror games get that or manage to hit a high mark for sound
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Feb 19, 2021 22:11
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I'm watching a friend play the first Silent Hill for the first time and it's hearing him shout "wtf is this squeaking noise??? Why is the music getting sinister, there's no enemy here???" and I know the exact spots he's at based on his descriptions of the nonsensical sound effects.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:41
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I feel like if the protagonists are facing horrors and just being kind of blase about it and overcoming it like badasses, that's not horror, that's horror-themed action. You're talking about Castlevania. (This is not a complaint, I love Castlevania.)
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Feb 19, 2021 23:09
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Is Alien a worse horror movie for Ripley being determined, competent, and beating the xenomorphs' asses in the end instead curling up in the fetal position and shaking in terror?
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Feb 19, 2021 23:21
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Pope Guilty posted:I feel like if the protagonists are facing horrors and just being kind of blase about it and overcoming it like badasses, that's not horror, that's horror-themed action. You're talking about Castlevania. I'm not sure it's castlevania because I'm visualizing a modern context (and not necessarily action gameplay), but I agree that it's not horror- more some sort of reaction against the constraint of horror.
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Feb 19, 2021 23:22
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Black August posted:sound design was 60% of why Silent Hill did so well, easily the main workhorse of that series that plus the limited field of view "it's too bad you have all these fixed camera angles because the most horrible things imaginable are happening riiiiiight over there"
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Feb 19, 2021 23:22
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Did Alone in the Dark invent that? I remember obsessing over that game when it came out and I don't think there's anything that really did what it did previously. (Still bummed that the sequels abandoned the tone of the original and leaned harder into action and combat, neither of which the engine was capable of doing well.)
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Feb 19, 2021 23:28
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Cardiovorax posted:Is Alien a worse horror movie for Ripley being determined, competent, and beating the xenomorphs' asses in the end instead curling up in the fetal position and shaking in terror? I mean, Ripley wasn't blase or unaffected by any stretch, she was still visibly terrified for a huge chunk of it Sigourney Weaver did an amazing job of portraying determined and competent but not at all comfortable or in control That changes dramatically in everything past the first one, obvs, but yeah I would absolutely say Aliens and onward were less horror and more action compared to the first installment
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Feb 19, 2021 23:32
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I mean, Ripley wasn't blase or unaffected by any stretch, she was still visibly terrified for a huge chunk of it And in Aliens the marines definitely weren't blase or acting badass at all. Half of them get slaughtered in the first encounter and spend the rest of the film getting their asses kicked at every corner and making GBS threads themselves in fear, but still manage to throw in some punches and be cool. They are the perfect example of how to balance having agency/cool moments while also having the enemy be respected and feared.
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Feb 20, 2021 00:17
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Yeah, maybe I read the wrong intention into that. I'm just getting a bit annoyed recently with the currently very common attitude that if you're not completely helpless or actually win in a conclusive way in the end, it's not good horror. There is a very broad spectrum of valid middle ground between Amnesia-style 'hide in a corner and softly weep to yourself' games and Resident Evil 4 cheesefests and there's a difference between "bleak and hopeless" and "scary."
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Feb 20, 2021 00:26
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Post Ironic Cereal posted:The controls on Little Nightmares 2 seem a lot tighter than the first. I'm dying a lot more to dumb impatience than just straight up not grabbing poo poo even though I PRESSED THE drat BUTTON in comparison to the first game. No idea who thought this series needed combat, though, it's not the worst but it doesn't actually add anything. I find the combat quite annoying. There's no ability to dodge or flee once an enemy is triggered, so you die repeatedly while you try to work out the correct sequence of split-second actions needed to defeat them. And isn't one of the themes of Little Nightmares how tiny and vulnerable the characters are? Seems jarring to have them pick up a sledgehammer and bash enemies with it. And the controls seem pretty sucky to me still. Any number of times I've been: "Ok, time to RUN! Oh, wait, my character's got stuck on the corner of an object/ random crack in the ground and now I'm dead. Oh well."
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