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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Motronic posted:

You need to know what kind of septic install will work based on the soil type. The wrong soil can take you from a $40k septic install to a $70k+ install.

You need to know if there is power. If not how much will it cost to get there? This can be upwards of $25k. Same with cable/internet/phone.

You need to know if the soil percs and if actually buildable.

You need to know if this property is accessible from a public thoroughfare. If not does it have a formalized easement?

This is great info thanks

Yeah the plot is roughly square, a paved road with an unrevokable public easement runs along the entire southern border, there's a drive roughed in that runs up the middle of the property to the building site on top of the hill

Along the entire east side of the property runs an existing power line along the property line, that probably services the house on the property next door

Looking at a 1970s soil survey of that area it is "well draining sandy loan" although I haven't taken a shovel to it or had it tested

There's no muni water/fire hydrant, but it's less than 5 miles from a manned fire station which puts me in, at least, the category 8 fire insurance (1 being best, goes to 10)

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Hadlock posted:

Along the entire east side of the property runs an existing power line along the property line, that probably services the house on the property next door

You need to confirm this is a poco pole, not a private pole installed by someone else at great expense at some point. You also need to confirm that they will service that address with 200 Amp (or whatever you need) service from that pole/run without additional installation costs.

Actually, let's back up: you realize that in almost every circumstance building a home is much more expensive than buying an existing home, right? This is not a budget option. This is a "I have money and I'm willing to spend it on this because I want what I want" option. So let's just make sure you're the latter before going any further.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Yeah we already have a house this is future vacation home buying stuff. We can afford the land but probably would not apply for a construction loan for at least 3, probably six to 8 years, if ever. In the mean time we would grow grapes on the front 3 acres as a hobby business

Tezer
Jul 9, 2001

Hadlock posted:

Yeah we already have a house this is future vacation home buying stuff. We can afford the land but probably would not apply for a construction loan for at least 3, probably six to 8 years, if ever. In the mean time we would grow grapes on the front 3 acres as a hobby business

A client of mine did something similar, he stuck a yurt up that he used as a three-season get away before building a home. Of course, he didn't get a permit for it (it had a permanent platform) and that led to the local code enforcement officer getting kind of pissed ("Plans look good, but I'm holding your building permit until that yurt disappears"). Soooo, don't do that.

Asking the current owner in a friendly way about how far they got in planning before deciding not to build might uncover some interesting wrinkles, or at least set you up with some contractors who just have to dust off an old quote.

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018

Ranidas posted:

My comment about floorplan differences, is that I think some amount of the thoroughfare issue is just something that is going to be innate to more open floorplans, and we don't really like closed floorplans. Maybe I'm wrong there.
It’s not innate in open floor plans, just as it’s also possible in closed floor plans. In closed floor plans, it usually manifests as “rabbit warren” in which you have a bunch of poorly considered hallways taking up space and doing a poo poo job of connecting various rooms/parts of the house. In open plans, the culprit is mostly thoughtless placement of doorways and zone transition areas that inadvertently cause spaces to be cut up because you need to cross in multiple spots to get from A -> B or A -> C or C -> B. A good open layout will funnel those paths into something like A <-> (B + C) so you can use more space for living in your house, not moving from one spot to another. This is the kind of poo poo an architect would think about a lot harder than a CAD monkey employed by an online vending machine that dispenses architectural plans.

quote:

A 3 car garage is not a necessity, but we have 2 vehicles and then you need somewhere to store the lawnmower, bikes, outdoor kids toys, etc. A 3 car garage seemed like the most efficient solution there.

Could you not add a bit of extra depth to a two car garage for bikes and a beer fridge and whatnot and then have a downstairs shed-like room/lean-to off the utility closet with outside access for yard and kid stuff that’s actually near the yard? That way you wouldn’t have to lug all that poo poo uphill around the side of the house when you’re done with it.

quote:

Due to the feedback here maybe an architect is something we need to reconsider. My fear there is we spend thousands of dollars and they can't come up with something that is necessarily any better given our targets for layout, size etc.. Or they do so in a way that's going to be more expensive to build and you're back to square one. You can only lay things out so many ways and I don't know how you solve some of those issues without adding square footage, adding a second story, reducing bedrooms etc. We looked at a lot of other options, and this seemed to be the best. I suppose it's possible that all online plans are trash and good plans only come from architects which are never shared online, but that seems hard to beleive.

I think you are underestimating what an actual architect with years of highly specialized and intense education and training can do for you. And yes, actually, the vast majority of plans you see for sale online are trash (designed by CAD monkeys, remember?) and and a real architect’s custom-tailored plans will be much better. They don’t share them online (outside of their portfolios) because that’s not how they roll.

Your requirement list for this house is perfectly sane and ordinary and it won’t be difficult for a pro to come up with a much better plan within your build budget (unlike a stock plan with arbitrarily missing windows and arbitrary bump-outs arbitrarily jacking up the construction cost because random CAD monkeys DGAF about your construction budget). This type of sloped lot and house configuration with attached garage and a main upper floor and partially below grade lower floor is extremely common and won’t give an architect any trouble.

I guess I’m just not understanding why you’re not stoked as gently caress at the possibility of starting from scratch and being able to get exactly you want in a house and are thinking you need to settle on stock plans that only mostly meet your needs and definitely need some alterations.

crazypeltast52
May 5, 2010



Hadlock posted:

Yeah we already have a house this is future vacation home buying stuff. We can afford the land but probably would not apply for a construction loan for at least 3, probably six to 8 years, if ever. In the mean time we would grow grapes on the front 3 acres as a hobby business

You might want to post in the TGO farming thread as well. They all seem to be centered in the northeast, but there may be a grape farmer in there as well.

Edit: forgot the link, readding it here too for completion https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3933123

crazypeltast52 fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Feb 19, 2021

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Queen Victorian posted:

I guess I’m just not understanding why you’re not stoked as gently caress at the possibility of starting from scratch and being able to get exactly you want in a house and are thinking you need to settle on stock plans that only mostly meet your needs and definitely need some alterations.

This encapsulates my confusion on the topic very nicely. It's also, as you pointed out, going to be a lot more expensive build because these plans are lovely and there is NOBODY for this to blow back on who has any sort of professional liability or even gonna give a gently caress when you find out some of the bump outs-to-roofline interfaces leave you with weird box section protruding inside of your house that needs to be drywalled over, just like in a mcmansion (because those plans were designed using the same substandard tools and level of care).

Motronic fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 19, 2021

ntan1
Apr 29, 2009

sempai noticed me
I don't think an attorney would help that much - it's too specific and the city jurisdiction would know way more.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

crazypeltast52 posted:

You might want to post in the TGO farming thread as well. They all seem to be centered in the northeast, but there may be a grape farmer in there as well.

Yeah this is probably the place for it. Thanks!

Ranidas
Jun 19, 2007

Motronic posted:

This encapsulates my confusion on the topic very nicely. It's also, as you pointed out, going to be a lot more expensive build because these plans are lovely and there is NOBODY for this to blow back on who has any sort of professional liability or even gonna give a gently caress when you find out some of the bump outs-to-roofline interfaces leave you with weird box section protruding inside of your house that needs to be drywalled over, just like in a mcmansion (because those plans were designed using the same substandard tools and level of care).


Queen Victorian posted:

I think you are underestimating what an actual architect with years of highly specialized and intense education and training can do for you. And yes, actually, the vast majority of plans you see for sale online are trash (designed by CAD monkeys, remember?) and and a real architect’s custom-tailored plans will be much better. They don’t share them online (outside of their portfolios) because that’s not how they roll.

Your requirement list for this house is perfectly sane and ordinary and it won’t be difficult for a pro to come up with a much better plan within your build budget (unlike a stock plan with arbitrarily missing windows and arbitrary bump-outs arbitrarily jacking up the construction cost because random CAD monkeys DGAF about your construction budget). This type of sloped lot and house configuration with attached garage and a main upper floor and partially below grade lower floor is extremely common and won’t give an architect any trouble.

I guess I’m just not understanding why you’re not stoked as gently caress at the possibility of starting from scratch and being able to get exactly you want in a house and are thinking you need to settle on stock plans that only mostly meet your needs and definitely need some alterations.

Like I said, this is my first time with this process and it's why I came here to ask questions. One of my concerns was cost vs. value going that route. It sounds like my original assumption there may be way off, and there is much more value in going with an architect than I expected. My other worry is how long the design process will take going that route, but we are trying to get some info now and we'll see where that takes us. I guess I always assumed hiring an architect was something rich people did for multi million dollar homes or for commercial construction, and people building normal residential used plans.

This whole discussion really did not go the direction I was expecting when I first posted, but in the end I guess that's the point. I didn't know what I didn't know.

crazypeltast52
May 5, 2010



Hadlock posted:

Yeah this is probably the place for it. Thanks!

And I completely forgot the link!

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3933123

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Ranidas posted:

I guess I always assumed hiring an architect was something rich people did for multi million dollar homes or for commercial construction, and people building normal residential used plans.

People building "normal residential" buy in a development and choose model A or B and whether they want the garage on the left or on the right.

If anything, you're underestimating what it takes to build. But yes, people who build do in fact very often use architects regardless of budget. Same thing with renos - some architects specialize in additions and renos and can work magic.

Edit: I'm sure you've heard the stories of how stressful wedding are for a lot of people, especially big ones. It's because they have no idea what they are doing because they've never even hosted a party of this size before - never mind a wedding, everything costs twice what you think it should and the coordination is insane and if one thing goes wrong is causes a cascading series of failures.

This is also what building a house is like unless you personally know what you are doing and have the time to make it happen or you realize that you don't and simply don't build. Or hire a really good architect and really good GC. The kind of architect that's gonna be out on site with the GC.

And it's still gonna cost way more than you thought. And things are still going to go wrong.

Motronic fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Feb 19, 2021

Alarbus
Mar 31, 2010

Motronic posted:

The kind of architect that's gonna be out on site with the GC.

And hopefully the kind of architect that tells you not to use loving stucco in Pennsylvania no matter what the ~~trendy~~ builders are doing. For example.

biceps crimes
Apr 12, 2008


I'm playing with lender numbers right now, and the whole 20% down payment for no PMI has always been an unexamined assumption on my part (of course I will save 20% for my downpayment! i dont want to pay PMI!). Well, it turns out rates on a 30 year conventional for me are actually 1/8 of a point lower at 10% down, and I'm in the top credit bracket, so PMI shakes out to be $50ish a month. I'd shove that 10% extra from my down payment into index funds or something that's likely to outperform 2.75% or whatever rate ultimately gets locked in. I'd much rather use that money on something else that grows rather than giving it to the bank with rates where they're at. I checked out 5% down too, but the PMI doubles to $105-110ish, though that may be worth it too. I'm thinking of going with 10% for now and chucking the other 10% into index funds, does that sound pragmatic? Am I still in the right thread?

alnilam
Nov 10, 2009

I don't think it's a crazy line of thinking but there's also the question of how leveraged you are comfortable being.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



gay_crimes posted:

I'm playing with lender numbers right now, and the whole 20% down payment for no PMI has always been an unexamined assumption on my part (of course I will save 20% for my downpayment! i dont want to pay PMI!). Well, it turns out rates on a 30 year conventional for me are actually 1/8 of a point lower at 10% down, and I'm in the top credit bracket, so PMI shakes out to be $50ish a month. I'd shove that 10% extra from my down payment into index funds or something that's likely to outperform 2.75% or whatever rate ultimately gets locked in. I'd much rather use that money on something else that grows rather than giving it to the bank with rates where they're at. I checked out 5% down too, but the PMI doubles to $105-110ish, though that may be worth it too. I'm thinking of going with 10% for now and chucking the other 10% into index funds, does that sound pragmatic? Am I still in the right thread?

I've gone through this too. Right now I am thinking 15% is a sweet spot for me. To me, the biggest downside of a lower % down is higher monthly payments for the life of the loan. Even if you get more of a lump sum to dump into index funds, your monthly cash flow will be restricted for the life of the loan, which could be a long rear end time.

I also consider it an issue in my case if I'm planning on renting out a property later, though condos are more commonly rented out. I would not be able to command a rent that is higher than my monthly PITI+HOA at 10% down, even 15% down or 20% down it's iffy, depending on the cap rate I think?

In my price range 15% down to 20% down is a jump of $250 ish per month, which I assume can definitely make the difference between a profitable vs. unprofitable rental for a 2BR.

Inner Light fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 20, 2021

Ranidas
Jun 19, 2007

Inner Light posted:

I've gone through this too. Right now I am thinking 15% is a sweet spot for me. To me, the biggest downside of a lower % down is higher monthly payments for the life of the loan. Even if you get more of a lump sum to dump into index funds, your monthly cash flow will be restricted for the life of the loan, which could be a long rear end time.

I also consider it an issue in my case if I'm planning on renting out a property later, though condos are more commonly rented out. I would not be able to command a rent that is higher than my monthly PITI+HOA at 10% down, even 15% down or 20% down it's iffy, depending on the cap rate I think?

In my price range 15% down to 20% down is a jump of $250 ish per month.

If you wanted to bring payment size down at a future date, many lenders will let you reamoritize for a fee. I think ours will do it for $200.

Shammypants
May 25, 2004

Let me tell you about true luxury.

PMI is mad cheap and putting money in some investment is the way better play

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



Ranidas posted:

If you wanted to bring payment size down at a future date, many lenders will let you reamoritize for a fee. I think ours will do it for $200.

Yeah, I believe that is called 'recasting'. Only some lenders allow it and my prospective lender says it is rarely used. Plus there is some sort of approval usually.

Shammypants posted:

PMI is mad cheap and putting money in some investment is the way better play

Does this also apply if renting out may be a possibility? It seems if you are leveraged past a certain amount, you would always be renting at a loss.

Epitope
Nov 27, 2006

Grimey Drawer

Motronic posted:

when you find out some of the bump outs-to-roofline interfaces leave you with weird box section protruding inside of your house that needs to be drywalled over,

Ya these suck, and not just for aesthetic reasons. Bummer that it is common enough to warn about.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



Goddamn listing agent has our offer but isn't responding, because they're waiting for more offers to roll in for this weekend and start a war that will end up with the sale price way above list / actual value of this place.

:(

Am I an idiot for assigning value based on comps (with my agent's CMA) and being unwilling to offer significantly higher than the suggested value? I seem to be getting outbid over and over while following this logic, so maybe it is wrong. (List price is very close to estimated value based on CMA)

My agent, against conventional wisdom for realtors, actually said he would prefer I sat this unit out if the bidding war got much higher so I didn't overpay. He feels the unit's value is below list. It's a 2/1 with compromises.

Inner Light fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Feb 20, 2021

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

Inner Light posted:

Am I an idiot for assigning value based on comps (with my agent's CMA) and being unwilling to offer significantly higher than the suggested value?

Depends on your market, how much money you have, and how much you want the house.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Inner Light posted:

Goddamn listing agent has our offer but isn't responding, because they're waiting for more offers to roll in for this weekend and start a war that will end up with the sale price way above list / actual value of this place.

:(

Am I an idiot for assigning value based on comps (with my agent's CMA) and being unwilling to offer significantly higher than the suggested value? I seem to be getting outbid over and over while following this logic, so maybe it is wrong.

This is a question I have too. My agent seems intent on offering only what she thinks the max appraisal value is (we would never pay the difference between appraised value and offer anyway). We did lose a place over it, and we're likely to put another offer in this weekend in that same situation.

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

This is a question I have too. My agent seems intent on offering only what she thinks the max appraisal value is (we would never pay the difference between appraised value and offer anyway). We did lose a place over it, and we're likely to put another offer in this weekend in that same situation.

Depends on the market entirely. Where we sold in CO offers at asking or comps was very common and when we bought there our agent recommended offers on line with that. In Seattle and San Diego every house has gone 30k to 110k over asking, and our agent asked us to be prepared to also do so for at least 15k over depending on the house (we did not for the first five houses and quickly adjusted after...). You will get a feel very quickly on if over asking offers are going to be expected, though your agent should have informed you of this already.

Edit: more accurately I should say offers over appraisal value, not over asking. Many listings here are listed at or slightly below expected appraisal to get 100 offers and end up selling way over appraisal anyways.

PageMaster fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Feb 20, 2021

amethystbliss
Jan 17, 2006

On a similar note, we are starting the process of looking for our first house. I see a listing on Zillow for a house that hasn't been built yet. I've seen these new constructions on bigger developments, but in this case it looks like a single house on a 2 acre plot of land that can be custom built. Realtor said interested buyers will meet with builder and listing agent, discuss general parameters and floor plan, and price is finalized at that stage and cannot increase. You put downpayment down to begin build but then the rest is due after house is completed. Has anyone gone this route? The thought of a custom build at more of a fixed price is very enticing.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

PageMaster posted:

Depends on the market entirely. Where we sold in CO offers at asking or comps was very common and when we bought there our agent recommended offers on line with that. In Seattle and San Diego every house has gone 30k to 110k over asking, and our agent asked us to be prepared to also do so for at least 15k over depending on the house (we did not for the first five houses and quickly adjusted after...). You will get a feel very quickly on if over asking offers are going to be expected, though your agent should have informed you of this already.

Edit: more accurately I should say offers over appraisal value, not over asking. Many listings here are listed at or slightly below expected appraisal to get 100 offers and end up selling way over appraisal anyways.

So what, are these people just paying cash for the difference between appraisal and asking?

In my market (NYC) most places do not seem to be going above appraisal, but also if everything in a market is going above appraisal why wouldn’t banks be appraising higher to meet current market demand?

PageMaster
Nov 4, 2009

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

So what, are these people just paying cash for the difference between appraisal and asking?

In my market (NYC) most places do not seem to be going above appraisal, but also if everything in a market is going above appraisal why wouldn’t banks be appraising higher to meet current market demand?

Basically yes (in one way or another), or the appraisal just doesn't matter. A number of winning offers have been all cash, and a number of other ones have waived their appraisal contingency entirely. We are using the VA and have been asked in counteroffers (or put in our original offer on a competitive house) to agree to pay the difference (or a certain amount) between appraisal and offer price. I can't speak to how it works with a conventional loan, but I have to assume it's just the buyer's putting up the cash difference.

Edit: based on appraisal reports we have had as part of the lending process, they are adjusting since they're primarily based on comparable properties sold within the last 2(?) Years, but demand is increasing price faster than the adjustment; average sale price in some of the zip codes has jumped more than 10 percent last year, so comps from sales one year ago are far below what people are willing to pay right now. Appraisal should be closer IF there are enough comparable houses in close proximity that have sold very recently, otherwise homes from even 6 months ago are far below what people are offering right now. Again, the are two of the hottest markets in the US right now so it may not apply to where you are looking and you're not crazy for not wanting to go in over estimated appraised value, but I wanted to highlight that above appraisal offers could be the 'norm' depending on your local market and it's not completely unheard of.

PageMaster fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 20, 2021

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

Motronic posted:

The kind of architect that's gonna be out on site with the GC.
To expand a bit on this, architects come in two flavors: Practical people who design functional buildings and artists for whom buildings are their medium. You want the former type.

lampey
Mar 27, 2012

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

So what, are these people just paying cash for the difference between appraisal and asking?

In my market (NYC) most places do not seem to be going above appraisal, but also if everything in a market is going above appraisal why wouldn’t banks be appraising higher to meet current market demand?

Appraisals usually keep up even in hot markets. And otherwise, yes they pay over appraisal in hot markets because the seller won't come down

Squinky v2.0
Nov 16, 2006

Behind you! A three headed monkey!

College Slice

lampey posted:

Appraisals usually keep up even in hot markets. And otherwise, yes they pay over appraisal in hot markets because the seller won't come down

It’s a self correcting problem - if the market is so hot places are going above appraisal, they will become the newest & nearest comps for the next sales, which will presumably now come in at appraised price. It can only happen so often before the formula catches up.

Queen Victorian
Feb 21, 2018

Alarbus posted:

And hopefully the kind of architect that tells you not to use loving stucco in Pennsylvania no matter what the ~~trendy~~ builders are doing. For example.

Technically speaking, traditional stucco, like the old fashioned plaster-like variety applied by a grumpy Russian with a bundle of birch twigs, works just fine in PA. I’ve seen it in historical register buildings in my neighborhood and occasionally used to cover up degraded exterior brickwork.

The problem is EIFS, which looks like stucco but is not technically stucco. Old school stucco breathes, EIFS does not, which is what causes your house to slowly rot from the inside out if any moisture happens to get trapped, which can definitely happen in places like PA where it rains. Most modern applications of stucco are going to be EIFS.

amethystbliss posted:

On a similar note, we are starting the process of looking for our first house. I see a listing on Zillow for a house that hasn't been built yet. I've seen these new constructions on bigger developments, but in this case it looks like a single house on a 2 acre plot of land that can be custom built. Realtor said interested buyers will meet with builder and listing agent, discuss general parameters and floor plan, and price is finalized at that stage and cannot increase. You put downpayment down to begin build but then the rest is due after house is completed. Has anyone gone this route? The thought of a custom build at more of a fixed price is very enticing.

So more custom than calling dibs on an unfinished/unbuilt house in a development and getting to specify granite or quartz but less custom than bringing in your own architect and GC? “Custom build” can vary in meaning. Having been around a bunch of truly custom houses as they got built, I initially assume the hiring your own architect and GC and building on property not beholden to a developer end of the spectrum, but I realize that this not what other people mean.

Same deal with “I’m building a house”. A decade or so ago a goon posted an Ask/Tell thread about building a house and I jumped in looking forward to juicy horror stories only to find that it was basically about how he chose options from the developer’s catalog and was standing back and watching while the developer built the house. I was quite disappointed.

Dik Hz posted:

To expand a bit on this, architects come in two flavors: Practical people who design functional buildings and artists for whom buildings are their medium. You want the former type.

Very much agreed. Also the latter are at higher risk of being prima donnas and those are the worst. Always go for the pragmatic ones.[

This applies to a number of home-improvement-and-building-adjacent trades. For example, we’re thinking about having some stained glass work done (our house was stripped of all its stained glass twenty years ago when the old man’s estate got liquidated), and our window guy gave two names of local stained glass workers, but warned that one of them was an ~*artiste*~ and if your vision didn’t align with his out of the gate, working with him would be kind of a bitch. The other guy was an artisan rather than an artist and would just make poo poo to spec if you came with a design. Otherwise equally good work.

jemand
Sep 19, 2018

Inner Light posted:


I also consider it an issue in my case if I'm planning on renting out a property later, though condos are more commonly rented out. I would not be able to command a rent that is higher than my monthly PITI+HOA at 10% down, even 15% down or 20% down it's iffy, depending on the cap rate I think?

In my price range 15% down to 20% down is a jump of $250 ish per month, which I assume can definitely make the difference between a profitable vs. unprofitable rental for a 2BR.

Not an expert myself, but this seems like a poor way to price rentals for profit. For instance, take it to the limiting case of an all cash transaction-- since there's no principle or interest due each month, would you really price it barely above taxes and insurance? Are the entities that are actually out there buying cash for properties to rent out behaving anything like that?

A lot goes into a reasonable rental price, including your expected property value gain or loss given your area, the opportunity cost of your down-payment, something to cover repairs and upkeep, predictable monthly costs (pita, including the higher insurance rates for rentals), estimated vacant times between tenants, etc.

The down-payment comes in only for marginal interest and opportunity cost, which if you are doing this for profit should close to cancel each other. If you're helping a friend or relative you'd likely reduce some risks you otherwise would need to price in, but you could also afford just having them cover only some and not all ongoing monthly costs in a rapidly appreciating market, and still come out way ahead whenever you do sell.

Frankly if all that doesn't come really naturally to you, plus a lot of other fussy nonsense you might have to deal with while landlording, you maybe should stick to the safety of the friends and family route where you know you aren't covering all costs but they also aren't presenting full risks either because you knew them so well, or no renting out at all. May well be the prevailing market for rentals in your area is set by agents operating at scale and individuals like you can only compete if they are ignoring big portions of their true risks and costs when figuring "profit."

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



jemand posted:

Not an expert myself, but this seems like a poor way to price rentals for profit. For instance, take it to the limiting case of an all cash transaction-- since there's no principle or interest due each month, would you really price it barely above taxes and insurance? Are the entities that are actually out there buying cash for properties to rent out behaving anything like that?

A lot goes into a reasonable rental price, including your expected property value gain or loss given your area, the opportunity cost of your down-payment, something to cover repairs and upkeep, predictable monthly costs (pita, including the higher insurance rates for rentals), estimated vacant times between tenants, etc.

The down-payment comes in only for marginal interest and opportunity cost, which if you are doing this for profit should close to cancel each other. If you're helping a friend or relative you'd likely reduce some risks you otherwise would need to price in, but you could also afford just having them cover only some and not all ongoing monthly costs in a rapidly appreciating market, and still come out way ahead whenever you do sell.

Frankly if all that doesn't come really naturally to you, plus a lot of other fussy nonsense you might have to deal with while landlording, you maybe should stick to the safety of the friends and family route where you know you aren't covering all costs but they also aren't presenting full risks either because you knew them so well, or no renting out at all. May well be the prevailing market for rentals in your area is set by agents operating at scale and individuals like you can only compete if they are ignoring big portions of their true risks and costs when figuring "profit."

This is a great take and there's a good amount to absorb here, thanks.

The sellers for the condo ended up using my offer to leverage another which was all cash, quick close, and as-is, which they accepted. It's so much easier to be a forever renter.

Inner Light fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 20, 2021

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

amethystbliss posted:

On a similar note, we are starting the process of looking for our first house. I see a listing on Zillow for a house that hasn't been built yet. I've seen these new constructions on bigger developments, but in this case it looks like a single house on a 2 acre plot of land that can be custom built. Realtor said interested buyers will meet with builder and listing agent, discuss general parameters and floor plan, and price is finalized at that stage and cannot increase. You put downpayment down to begin build but then the rest is due after house is completed. Has anyone gone this route? The thought of a custom build at more of a fixed price is very enticing.

This is a small time builder with a small catalog of plans and sufficient financing to complete one or two homes at a time.

Some of the catalog they may have built before. You'll want to tour one or more of those and speak with the owners.

You'll also want to understand their financials and insurance, time in the business, time in the business under this name, etc, because this is someone who probably can't absorb many losses or delays without going out of business.

Pilfered Pallbearers posted:

So what, are these people just paying cash for the difference between appraisal and asking?

Yes. Or just cash period.

We get a post ever couple of weeks in here where people are just unable or unwilling to believe that some private individuals can buy homes in cash. It happens. It's happening right now. There are also businesses that will submit cash offers.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009
My wife went to a showing today and liked it. I'm remote and participated via facetime which wasn't very useful other than just getting a sense of the layout. House is 30 years old. Sellers got their own inspection and are mitigating most of the items that the inspector found. I'd prefer to have the price reduced and we find someone competent to do this stuff but that's how they are doing it. Realtor has recommended we offer above asking, another house in the same neighborhood got 17 offers last week. If we put in an offer we will obviously get our own inspection too. The roofing/siding issues I assume are related and concern me. Those and the foundation and potential fungus are the problems that stand out to me as potentially major. The lot was fairly muddy due to melting ice, but I was concerned about drainage in the yard.

I've left off some of the more minor handyman type crap that the inspector found. The below issues have either been addressed or the seller has said "to be corrected by seller prior to closing".

Roofing
Exposed Flashing
1. Uncaulked section of flashing noted at left side of chimney
2. Unsealed/cracking caulk at nail heads noted at apron flashing in front of left dormer
3. Several lifting/unsealed nail heads noted at apron flashing above front porch roof

Plumbing Stacks/Roof Penetration - Cracked vent boot cover noted at rear section of the main roof

Exterior Elements
Siding/Wall Cladding
1. Siding at sides of front left dormer is in contact with shingles; recommend verifying proper flashing installation, having siding cut 3/4" above shingles, and sealing bottom edge
2. Damage noted to bottom of siding panels on left side of front porch roof
3. Damage noted at siding panel below upper downspout above front porch roof
4. Damaged siding panel noted at lower rear left side of home
5. Damaged bottom siding panel noted at right side of home

Wood trim/wraps
1. Wood decay noted at bottom of vertical trim on left side of front left dormer
2. Wood decay/unsealed area noted at rear rake trim on right side of front left dormer
3. Wood decay noted at rake trim at rear left corner of home

Foundation Surface - Cracking from normal settlement noted at left side of home; have patched/sealed to prevent water intrusion

Foundation Substructure
1. Loose foundation block noted to the left of crawlspace entrance
2. Damaged foundation blocks noted at the front center section of crawlspace, a section of sill plate is not fully supported
3. Unsealed areas noted at rear left corner of crawlspace, at rear wall and under the rear crawlspace door in left rear corner
4. Crack from normal settlement noted at the right rear corner of the crawlspace

HVAC Refridgerant lines - Missing sections of insulation to outdoor unit, have replaced to reduce loss of efficiency


Here are the items the seller says they are not going to fix:

Floor Framing - Suspected fungal activity noted on floor framing in the crawl space, have a qualified professional evaluate and treat as required

Bathrooms - Master shower diverter defective, losing significant flow at spigot when engaged. Replace gasket as required. A leak was also noted at the shower/tub handle when operating.

HVAC Electrical - Circuit breaker in the electric panel exceeds manufacturer's maximum amperage recommendation for outside condensing unit (I can swap out a breaker, but is this potentially indicative of a bad install or something?)


So, should we run screaming or put in an offer and plan to line up our own inspectors?

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

I'm concerned about all of the water intrusion from that inspector's list. They weren't able to poke around/remove anything so the damage behind all of those leaks could be more extensive.

I'd want documentation of the repairs with photos from a licensed, bonded contractor.

Tyro
Nov 10, 2009

Motronic posted:

I'm concerned about all of the water intrusion from that inspector's list. They weren't able to poke around/remove anything so the damage behind all of those leaks could be more extensive.

I'd want documentation of the repairs with photos from a licensed, bonded contractor.

Cool thanks. We will definitely ask for that if we go forward.

We might just decline to put in an offer on this one. We have a few months to see what else comes to market. My wife likes the place, I'm kind of indifferent to it. But we're probably looking in the same neighborhood so I'm not sure if another house of the same age in the same area would necessarily be better.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Buying a house sucks. Our sellers just pulled out and we're right back at the start again. I also feel weirdly relieved that we're no longer committed to a huge mortgage though.

A MIRACLE
Sep 17, 2007

All right. It's Saturday night; I have no date, a two-liter bottle of Shasta and my all-Rush mix-tape... Let's rock.

Is eifs the same as the perfect wall concept I see on builder YouTube

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Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

A MIRACLE posted:

Is eifs the same as the perfect wall concept I see on builder YouTube

What is the "perfect wall concept"? If it doesn't include exterior insulation that looks like stucco and acts as a vapor barrier then no.

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