|
I've always liked ADOM well enough but I've never for the life of me been able to get into Nethack, not even before roguelikes started popping up everywhere.
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
nrook posted:Everything I hear about ADOM makes it sound like a game with just as much bullshit as NetHack but five times longer. i personally feel like adom has nowhere near as much wiki checking stuff, but i also haven't played much nethack. i also thiiink it probably isn't all too much longer? how long do typical nethack runs take, anyway? My ADOM runs wound up at 10 hours, but that was with me being a slow player ontop of using tiles mode which makes things even slower. Watching negarretep just play ascii casually on stream he just kinda pulled in a sub-5 hour win without really trying hard at all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:01
|
|
|
^^ if you're talking about run times for ADOM then four or five hours would be normal. Grond's speed record using every cheese under the sun is well under an hour. Captain Foo posted:i just played this demo and Reverse DD seems like a good description, except i found DD too annoying and this a little easier, so far? there seem to be highly customizable difficulty settings too, so I suppose that's nice Christ on his throne, that's a deep dive - I picked up the LoK demo at the end of 2019. It has been upgraded and revamped as I wanted since then, it is complete and fine now. Jedit fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:12
|
|
|
Kobold Sex Tape posted:i personally feel like adom has nowhere near as much wiki checking stuff, but i also haven't played much nethack. i also thiiink it probably isn't all too much longer? how long do typical nethack runs take, anyway? My ADOM runs wound up at 10 hours, but that was with me being a slow player ontop of using tiles mode which makes things even slower. Watching negarretep just play ascii casually on stream he just kinda pulled in a sub-5 hour win without really trying hard at all. Nethack is probably around that mark, maybe a bit longer depending on what you do, but the game infamously has a) massively backtracking through the entire dungeon you've already seen once 2) god-drat Gehennom, which is literally a dozen+ dungeon levels that are single-tile-wide-corridor mazes, which you of course also have to back-track through. The game length is IMO much inflated due to this, even though the ascension back to the top is made at least theoretically more difficult. But then some of the difficulty comes from things that simply add to the tedium! I love me some Nethack but hot dang is it also a mess in some ways. ADOM's overworld, several dungeons etc. make it look and feel like a bigger whole, at least to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:18
|
|
|
The ascension run is fun and doesn't take more than 15 minutes unless you really botch it, but yes, hell is very bad in NetHack. It sounds like ADOM isn't really much longer, if at all, if players typically win within 10 hours.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
nrook posted:The ascension run is fun and doesn't take more than 15 minutes unless you really botch it, but yes, hell is very bad in NetHack. It sounds like ADOM isn't really much longer, if at all, if players typically win within 10 hours. It kinda depends on the RNG. And obviously you can prepare for it beforehand, especially by digging Gehennom into straight paths, but that's just tedium in a different portion of the game 
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:52
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:It kinda depends on the RNG. And obviously you can prepare for it beforehand, especially by digging Gehennom into straight paths, but that's just tedium in a different portion of the game I died on D:1 coming back in DCSS so I am all in favor for ascension runs to be as trivial as possible in roguelikes. Actually, I think I did the old NetHack digging trick in DCSS with a stone of earth elementals once. It works just as well in that game. Of course, I think the stone is long gone at this point, since it's Crawl after all.
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 21:55
|
|
|
John Lee posted:I got into NetHack, then Crawl, and eventually the entire roguelike genre and my love of procedural generation, entirely because I played ADOM first and found it absolutely insufferable. I really wanted a game like that, but not insane, lovely, and full of grinding, and then I found out that those game actually existed, and the rest is history. This is what happened to me except with Nethack
|
|
#
?
Feb 20, 2021 22:14
|
|
|
Finally put a few hours into Prey Mooncrash and it seems like it could be a pretty good? Right now I'm not really sure what all changes between characters and after simulation resets, but there's variations of items/enemies/objectives, a doomsday clock and some not egregious metaprogression. Of course the base game is a brilliant take on System Shock, I'm talking specifically about Mooncrash's merits as a roguelite.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 00:29
|
|
|
Jedit posted:^^ if you're talking about run times for ADOM then four or five hours would be normal. Grond's speed record using every cheese under the sun is well under an hour. I was half drunk last night and just searched for the most recent post about legend of keepers and quoted it so here we are! I’ve enjoyed the couple of demo runs I’ve played, morale damage seems stronger than damage overall, but it’s easy enough to pivot if you get various items/ traps
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 00:48
|
|
|
William Henry Hairytaint posted:This is what happened to me except with Nethack So just imagine what would have happened if you had ever played ADOM!
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 01:05
|
|
|
Zedlic posted:Playing and enjoying Loop Hero I wonder what a Slay the Spire style game with randomized/auto battles would look like. Let me pick my cards and items but each fight is up to RNG.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 01:20
|
|
|
bees x1000 posted:Finally put a few hours into Prey Mooncrash and it seems like it could be a pretty good? Right now I'm not really sure what all changes between characters and after simulation resets, but there's variations of items/enemies/objectives, a doomsday clock and some not egregious metaprogression. Mooncrash is really drat good.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 01:27
|
|
|
nrook posted:The ascension run is fun and doesn't take more than 15 minutes unless you really botch it, but yes, hell is very bad in NetHack. It sounds like ADOM isn't really much longer, if at all, if players typically win within 10 hours. ADOM also has better ascension. For an ultra ending you don't have to ascend at all; the game ends as soon as you kill Andor Drakon. In a normal ending you do have to exit the Drakalor Chain by returning to the game start position, but there's a shortcut about a third of the way back up. If you want that full NetHack experience, though, there's always the Nihilist ending. Entering the Chaos Plane and reading a scroll of entropy next to Andy kills him, and then you have to exit the Caverns of Chaos to win. The trick is that you also destroy the universe in the process, so you have 17 turns to exit each level, you can never go back and the shortcut is closed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 11:07
|
|
|
For the semi-ADOM addled that can't yet find succor in early days Ultimate, there is also now another solid update to Shadows of the Wyrm to kick off 2021 for the game, adding adventurers and party quests alongside various fixes and whatnot: http://www.shadowofthewyrm.org/
|
|
#
?
Feb 21, 2021 14:34
|
|
|
Agonizing Demises of Murder
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 00:55
|
|
|
Has Fights in Tight Spaces gotten any attention in this thread? Apparently it enters early access in a couple of days and I’ve been having fun with the demo that’s been out for awhile.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 01:33
|
|
|
My unrealizable dream is an ascii hex roguelike using GURPS as its base system, and ADOM as its base inspiration
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
what the gently caress exploded here? https://i.imgur.com/uVnZimX.mp4
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 02:05
|
|
|
Solid body of a propane tank doing the buggy phasing thing inside the snow. Usually you see this kind of thing when one of the holy mountain statues gets stuck in the brickwork. You can see the shape of it shimmer around from the bottom left side to the right when it gets pulled by the black hole. Couldn't tell you why it exploded.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 02:10
|
|
|
Curious if Raspberry Smash that just came out on the switch is any good...looks a lot like Enter the Gungeon but maybe more fun to play and maybe a rip off...
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 02:34
|
|
|
Magitek posted:Has Fights in Tight Spaces gotten any attention in this thread? Apparently it enters early access in a couple of days and I’ve been having fun with the demo that’s been out for awhile. I played the demo a few weeks ago, fun little game
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 02:36
|
|
|
I wish there was a Super Hot option for Noita. I really liked it but I gave up because I'm terrible and didn't feel like I was getting better. I don't have the patience for that kind of real time game anymore. If I could puzzle through the chaos with RTwP it'd be so fun Depending upon how their physics are written that could nearly be impossible though
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:I wish there was a Super Hot option for Noita. I really liked it but I gave up because I'm terrible and didn't feel like I was getting better. I don't have the patience for that kind of real time game anymore. If I could puzzle through the chaos with RTwP it'd be so fun I totally played Noita with mods to make it easier.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 08:28
|
|
|
Turin Turambar posted:I totally played Noita with mods to make it easier. This sounds like the solution for me, which mods did you like best?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 08:48
|
|
|
Ah Map posted:Curious if Raspberry Smash that just came out on the switch is any good...looks a lot like Enter the Gungeon but maybe more fun to play and maybe a rip off... Had trouble finding this because it's actually called Raspberry Mash, and Raspberry Smash is an alcoholic drink so it floods the google results. Anyway it doesn't look like a Gungeon rip-off at all seeing as both your and the enemy's attacks are predominantly melee and there's not much incoming/outgoing bullet hell (edit: except the pigboss which does have dodgerolling under bullet hell salvos lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HP-kNjlg5k Zero VGS fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Feb 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 09:05
|
|
|
Here's something I'm liking about TOME: I can pick random combinations of characters, and they all feel viable and fun and different. Maybe it's that I'm only about 10 hours into the game and only playing beginner dungeons before dying, so perhaps there's no real challenge yet, but danged if it isn't well disguised as fun for now. Last character was a halfling rogue that actually kinda felt like a halfling rogue without being too generic or weak. I wasn't very happy about dying in the sandworm pit. For some reason, buried under sand, the digging tool I had only let me dig toward an enemy which delivered the coup de grace, but I guess next time I'll wait to do that when I can breathe in sand, or figure out what the gimmick is so I don't get sand just dumped on me at all times. My current random character is a halfling summoner, and my first thought was, she's going to be a bad fighter and only be able to summon one thing, but she has psi blades and two summons to start, with an option for a third. It's not amazing, but it's interesting. Enough to keep me wondering about possibilities for this character I had no intention of playing before. I still hate checking stats on items and trying to figure out if something is better than what I have, how, and whether it's worth the tradeoff. I miss just looking for the biggest or second biggest number in Dungeonmans. So I'll punch my card for a second week of TOME coffee breaks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 09:25
|
|
|
doctorfrog posted:Here's something I'm liking about TOME: I can pick random combinations of characters, and they all feel viable and fun and different. Maybe it's that I'm only about 10 hours into the game and only playing beginner dungeons before dying, so there's no real challenge yet, but danged if it isn't well disguised as fun for now. Wait until you start unlocking classes like Timecop, Boogerman, and "person who thinks nothing actually exists".
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 09:31
|
|
|
doctorfrog posted:Here's something I'm liking about TOME: I can pick random combinations of characters, and they all feel viable and fun and different. Maybe it's that I'm only about 10 hours into the game and only playing beginner dungeons before dying, so perhaps there's no real challenge yet, but danged if it isn't well disguised as fun for now. Yeah class design (and the sheer variety) is the game's greatest strength, and where most development has been aimed. It's honestly at a point where I wish they would put some of that effort and talent into overhauling the environment and enemies, who are still mostly the same as they were a dozen full point revisions ago except for a few nerfs to insanely obnoxious enemies like Dreaming Horrors. doctorfrog posted:Last character was a halfling rogue that actually kinda felt like a halfling rogue without being too generic or weak. I wasn't very happy about dying in the sandworm pit. For some reason, buried under sand, the digging tool I had only let me dig toward an enemy which delivered the coup de grace, but I guess next time I'll wait to do that when I can breathe in sand, or figure out what the gimmick is so I don't get sand just dumped on me at all times. I'm torn on my opinion of Sandworm Lair, because it can absolutely be kind of tedious but it's also one of the few dungeons that demands a totally different approach than normal, which is good (especially in a game as long as ToME). It's a good idea to bring a means of teleportation in with you in case you get trapped in collapsing walls. Being undead (available as an item ego, typically on belts) lets you avoid suffocation but you still take some crushing damage when you're initially trapped. Also the gimmick is just that worms dig out the walls and then after a certain number of turns the walls collapse in again. Stay close to the worms (tons of little ones in regular Lair, one or two big ones that tunnel left-right in alt Lair). doctorfrog posted:My current random character is a halfling summoner, and my first thought was, she's going to be a bad fighter and only be able to summon one thing, but she has psi blades and two summons to start, with an option for a third. It's not amazing, but it's interesting. Try Oozemancer if you get a chance, they lean in harder on the the psiblades + meat shield summons concept but are much more interesting and dynamic to play than Summoners. Like I don't want to harsh your buzz if you're having fun with them anyways, but they're incredibly one-note; the moment you get bored I encourage you to use an unlocker and try some of the more flavorful classes. doctorfrog posted:I still hate checking stats on items and trying to figure out if something is better than what I have, how, and whether it's worth the tradeoff. I miss just looking for the biggest or second biggest number in Dungeonmans. For the first third of the game you're basically just looking for big +Life. Almost nothing else matters pre-Dreadfell. In the latest patch stacking Defense is also pretty viable, but some enemies will bypass it; Life is safer and works on everything. In older versions it would have been Armor but same basic idea. In the midgame you want to get your Stun resistance to 100%; save up gear that grants it but don't wear it until you can hit 100% or close to it, until then it's usually better to rely on active status clears than a coin-flip immunity. On higher difficulties you can often do this with just the loot that drops but on Normal you'll want to keep an eye out for Quartz gems and white (egoless) rings of Gold tier or better, which can be crafted into 30% stun immunity rings at Angolwen. It's only in the later midgame and endgame that gearing actually becomes fairly complex and you have to start thinking about balancing survivability and status immunities with damage output, and by then you're usually comparing fixed artifacts vs. randarts that have much bigger and more impactful modifiers anyways. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Feb 22, 2021 |
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 09:36
|
|
|
tome also has some fantastic mod classes, in addition to the varied base game and expansion classes. currently playing Martyr which is a class where you're Don Quixote, except the windmills actually are monsters. i have no idea why but i'm drawn to tome in a way that no other roguelike has ever even compared, barring a little bit of Dungeonmans also lowkey love the lore in the game, even though for the most part it's basically just Bizarro Middle-Earth (halflings are evil, orcs are really smart and organized, etc.) crossed with Lovecraft influences (elves are immortal because their king studied the leftover bits of a dead god after a human became immortal from eating it, dwarves are probably weird space monsters) quote:It's honestly at a point where I wish they would put some of that effort and talent into overhauling the environment and enemies, who are still mostly the same as they were a dozen full point revisions ago except for a few nerfs to insanely obnoxious enemies like Dreaming Horrors. from what i understand the work is being done on redoing the prides, hopefully for the next expansion release. a dev in discord was talking about ideas they had for high peak, one being that each floor would get smaller as you ascended, like a pyramid, but the end result was the later floors were too small and absolutely filled with monsters. but yeah as is, if you finish one pride you can probably shelve the character and do something different because the remainder of the game is going to basically be the same, except far more dangerous and thus time consuming.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 09:56
|
|
|
Zedlic posted:This sounds like the solution for me, which mods did you like best? A mix of this two to have more health and recover it, although tweaked by me to make them less strong (easy to do, just need to open them with notepad) https://modworkshop.net/mod/28246 https://modworkshop.net/mod/26132 and of course the edit wands anywhere mod https://modworkshop.net/mod/25830 This one was also interesting https://modworkshop.net/mod/25873
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 10:18
|
|
|
Mister No posted:from what i understand the work is being done on redoing the prides, hopefully for the next expansion release. a dev in discord was talking about ideas they had for high peak, one being that each floor would get smaller as you ascended, like a pyramid, but the end result was the later floors were too small and absolutely filled with monsters. High Peak is absurdly lethal and genuinely nerve wracking because it can outfuck even the most prepared character (on Insane at least). I think it's a pretty unique and memorable type of thing to have in the endgame. I would call it good without hesitation if the game was like 8 hours shorter probably but the game is so long that the balancing act of trying to get just strong enough to clear while avoiding tedium of gearing up in endless optional areas and vaults is real and it feels really bad when you guess a little short and are stuck dying in the final battle. The small peak patch was live at one point and it made the upper floors genuinely close to impossible.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 12:44
|
|
|
Zedlic posted:This sounds like the solution for me, which mods did you like best? "Goki's Things" is a really nice mod with a bunch of settings and new spells and poo poo you can toggle on and off individually. I like using it with Edit Wands Everywhere, No Shuffle Wands, and max HP upgrades healing on pickup.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 13:52
|
|
|
When I was playing TOME I got runs down to 10ish hours but I would skip every optional dungeon and vault once I was out of T2s. I’d also skip the cave when you go out east and just recall out every time I cross the ocean in addition to skipping the whole Tannen sub plot. The prides do become a slog, I wish they were each at least 1 map less and could maybe even be only 1 map. High Peak I’m of two minds: it probably doesn’t need to be 10 levels but if you track/precog or whatever you can find the stair guardian, juke them off the stairs, and skip the level making HP really short. If TOME was an 6-8 hour or less game it would be drat close to perfect for me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 15:19
|
|
|
Someone should make a mod that just cuts down the main campaign into reasonable size.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 15:35
|
|
|
Yeah. It was real fun doing all the side content the first time and having this huge campaign but the game really feels like it wants to be run based. A little editing would make it a super tight campaign run. Debase yourself and embrace turn based Diablo, Darkgod
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 15:53
|
|
|
I wish the Infinite Dungeon was good
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 16:01
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm torn on my opinion of Sandworm Lair, because it can absolutely be kind of tedious but it's also one of the few dungeons that demands a totally different approach than normal, which is good (especially in a game as long as ToME). It's a good idea to bring a means of teleportation in with you in case you get trapped in collapsing walls. Being undead (available as an item ego, typically on belts) lets you avoid suffocation but you still take some crushing damage when you're initially trapped. the only thing preventing SWL from being the worst most annoying zone in the game is the fact that alt-SWL exists and is filled with even more waiting and less tactical decisions because things only go in one direction. i hate SWL sooo much. e: also yeah high peak is a Burning Star and Track check. you just dig through everything and never fight anything if possible. especially not stair guardians, you just blink past them and leave. there's no reasons to take risks on things that are quite possibly harder than the final bosses when you're ten minutes from the win. fistfighting a 100% crit anorithil and dying instantly is no fun
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 17:28
|
|
|
I could have sworn that there was a second class that was going to be added during the Necromancer update for ToME but that seems to never have panned out?
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 17:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 00:21 |
|
|
Kobold Sex Tape posted:the only thing preventing SWL from being the worst most annoying zone in the game is the fact that alt-SWL exists and is filled with even more waiting and less tactical decisions because things only go in one direction. i hate SWL sooo much. this is weird to me personally, but i've seen the sentiment. i have it set to always give me alt-swl because even at it's worst im not waiting for a worm to randomly come down to the tiny room i'm in and go the direction i wants. the for floor 2 i just there for the 500 or so turns it takes for the boss to immediately beeline for you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 22, 2021 17:53
|
|