UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

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therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Pistol_Pete posted:

This thread has the habit of picking up someone's throwaway remark and angrily analysing it to death, putting in 100 times more effort and emotion than the original post entailed. I wouldn't let it worry you.

Thanks, but I think you are wrong. Throwaway comments can be very revealing of what someone is thinking - more so perhaps than a carefully-thought out post. And if a comment draws that much ire then there is something there that needs to be examined and considered.

Miftan posted:

The main reason imo is that there's pushback. You go 'Saudi is loving evil' and people just shrug go 'yeah obviously', but with Israel someone is always going ACTUALLY KILLING PALESTINIANS IS FINE AND ISRAEL IS RIGHT TO DO SO which gets people annoyed, and that is reflected back into their attitude about Israel.

For me personally it's because I grew up there, and in my experience a lot of left wing jews have it as a very sore sticking point. Probably because we're expected to see it as a beacon of shining light and progressiveness when it's just another lovely apartheid regime that regularly murders it's 2nd class citizens and covers it up while screaming about how barbaric they are for resisting murder.

Failed Imagineer posted:

E:^^^^ should have just left it to Miftan tbh

Israel is criticised because it is a brutal apartheid regime, the same way that SA was criticised in the 80s. It also has the privilege of being a client-state for US force projection in the region, and US colonialism/hegemony is probably the fundamental issue of the loosely-defined international "left".

This issue is disingenuously used as a rhetorical cudgel against the left, as part of the ideological battle which prevents us from having or achieving Nice Things. So, Just Asking Questions tends to be received poorly

I do understand all that. I even agree with it. But you could say the same in the bolded paragraph about Saudi (apartheid with respect to gender and religion and I think nationality - and add Yemen to the mix) and it just doesn't get the same level of intense hatred. No other country does, of which I am aware. The arguments may convince you, and that's fine, but they don't 100% convince me.

That said, raising the issue in a lovely way like I did is not cool.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:13

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# ? May 20, 2024 20:20

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

something awful was founded in 1999 though :thunk:

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:17

CancerCakes: Jan 10, 2006

therattle posted:

I never suggested it was. I dashed it off last night before bed, and I think at some level I knew it was provocative, so not even I buy the "oh hah ha, it was only a joke". It was disingenuous as a joke, and as an apology. (As someone has pointed out, it wasn't a real apology. And so I don't mind the pile-on, as it as deserved). The r/relationships posts often have the question "Am I the rear end in a top hat" - yes, I was. I should not have made that post. If I had something to say, I should have said it straightforwardly. And it would have been this:

I think I saw a reference to Israel and was almost surprised that it wasn't something negative. (Please note that I think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is shameful and abhorrent, so this is not a defence of Israel per se). It feels to me like Israel has become the slightly lazy go-to for the epitome of an evil regime. Someone wants to make a reference to an atrocity, use Israel. But in addition to that there is something about the level of hatred, the intensity and vehemence of it, that alarms me. I have read the arguments about why this is directed at Israel in a way that it is not at other countries (eg Saudi, China). and I am just not entirely convinced. Those arguments go a good way towards explaining it, but I don't think they fully explain the singular intensity of hatred that Israel receives. I think it is partly that Israel-Palestine is the current cause receiving focus (as, say, apartheid was in the 80s), and to be fair I think that is where most of the attention to it in this thread in particular is coming from, but I cannot escape the nagging feeling at the back of my mind (or occasionally the front, as in last night) that there is an element of AS to it. This thread is actually probably an unfair recipient of that criticism or comment because generally I think people here try hard to be fair, even-handed and morally consistent. And it may simply be the Zionist indoctrination that a lot of Jewish children receive that I have not shaken off - but I don't think so.

This thread can be draining and you seem to be coming to it with a degree of good faith and curiosity so glad to see you roll with the (deserved) punches.

I have been reading natives by akala recently (fantastic) and he draws an interesting parallel between Mandela (beloved by libs) and Castro (hated by libs). One of the reasons I get worked up about Israel is similar - libs will generally admit that aparteid was bad, but are unwilling to apply similar considerations to Gaza. This hypocrisy can be galling. However, I have to remind myself that decrying hypocrisy is an activity reserved for children and liberals, and is generally not sufficient to convince others of wrong doing - as can be seen by the public's reaction to the conservative party in general.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:18

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

therattle posted:

I do understand all that. I even agree with it. But you could say the same in the bolded paragraph about Saudi (apartheid with respect to gender and religion and I think nationality - and add Yemen to the mix) and it just doesn't get the same level of intense hatred. No other country does, of which I am aware. The arguments may convince you, and that's fine, but they don't 100% convince me.

That said, raising the issue in a lovely way like I did is not cool.

Yes, but it's the second paragraph I posted which you didn't bold that contains the answer you seek.

Fair enough you're being all :ohdear:

now, but your posts still seem to contain a certain "hmmmm there's a reason you're all picking on poor Israel, I just dare not speak its name". I think I'd rather just be frankly called an anti-Semite by some Hasbarist weirdo tbh, at least then they might be doing it as gainful employment

bump_fn posted:

something awful was founded in 1999 though

SA's intense racism propagates backwards through the space-time continuum like the final episode of TNG

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:19

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

oh also

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:21

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

Jose posted:

lol he's so loving useless

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1363814169666072582?s=20

He fundamentally doesn't understand what his job even is.

And Boisdale can do one. They charge £50 a head of you're still eating while they have a poo poo cover act on stage, even if you arrived hours before it was due to start and are only still there because they took an hour to bring your dessert.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:25

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

therattle posted:

Thanks, but I think you are wrong. Throwaway comments can be very revealing of what someone is thinking - more so perhaps than a carefully-thought out post. And if a comment draws that much ire then there is something there that needs to be examined and considered.

I do understand all that. I even agree with it. But you could say the same in the bolded paragraph about Saudi (apartheid with respect to gender and religion and I think nationality - and add Yemen to the mix) and it just doesn't get the same level of intense hatred. No other country does, of which I am aware. The arguments may convince you, and that's fine, but they don't 100% convince me.

That said, raising the issue in a lovely way like I did is not cool.

Saudi and China DO get the same hatred, just probably not from the groups of people you usually associate with. And weirdly, some of those people don't give much of a poo poo about Israel. It's almost as if one's cultural baggage and geography have something to do with which causes people get hung up on!

Anyway my other point is, your argument definitely doesn't hold any water when you're talking about left wing jews, so you might want to reconsider it when addressing it to us.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:28

thebardyspoon: Jun 30, 2005

So I got the job I was panicking about in the January thread. Starting it in a few weeks and am now enjoying that limbo period where you've signed the documents to start a new job and are just waiting to start it. Without the stress of applying for stuff I've been able to actually play and enjoy stuff guilt free. Shame I couldn't go out and get a meal somewhere to celebrate but that's a pretty minor issue.

I'm pretty nervous, not really about the job itself. More because when starting previous jobs I've not known anything about my co-workers where with this one, they have a team page on their company website that really illustrates that everyone I'm about to work with has done some incredible things, lived all over the world and worked on a bunch of stuff they're clearly very proud of (rightly so) and I kind of haven't. The other thing is just starting a job working from home and probably not actually "meeting" my coworkers until June/July at the earliest is going to feel extremely weird I think. Anyone who has been in a similar position able to give any tips haha?

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:29

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

CancerCakes posted:

However, I have to remind myself that decrying hypocrisy is an activity reserved for children and liberals

there's an interesting bit in, christ, Diamond Age I want to say - one of several stephenson books i read mostly because i make overwhelmingly poor life choices in the abstract - where the characters come to the opposite conclusion. there, they identify that hypocrisy is kind of the nature of moralizing - do as i say and not as i do and that whole racket, that people tend to espouse a higher moral compass than the one they happen to follow. and is instead presented as a universal truth - that part of believing in good morals and there being a superior way of living is, occasionally, failing to meet that standard. i think about that a lot.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:32

Miftan: Mar 31, 2012; Terry knows what he can do with his bloody chocolate orange...

CoolCab posted:

there's an interesting bit in, christ, Diamond Age I want to say - one of several stephenson books i read mostly because i make overwhelmingly poor life choices in the abstract - where the characters come to the opposite conclusion. there, they identify that hypocrisy is kind of the nature of moralizing - do as i say and not as i do and that whole racket, that people tend to espouse a higher moral compass than the one they happen to follow. and is instead presented as a universal truth - that part of believing in good morals and there being a superior way of living is, occasionally, failing to meet that standard. i think about that a lot.

Sounds like a liberal cop out, comrade. :colbert:

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:34

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

Just a reminder that this all started with a post speaking positively about scientific work out of Israel, so the antisemites that therattle thinks are in this thread exist entirely in his mind.

His whole argument is "it's weird to read positive things about Israel in a thread that I assumed was antisemitic from the moment I started posting here"

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:34

Pistol_Pete: Sep 15, 2007; Oven Wrangler

Failed Imagineer posted:

At a certain point, this will literally never happen unless you have some abdominal muscle.

I don't really care about abs, I just want a tummy that does this: | instead of this: )

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:34

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

thebardyspoon posted:

So I got the job I was panicking about in the January thread. Starting it in a few weeks and am now enjoying that limbo period where you've signed the documents to start a new job and are just waiting to start it. Without the stress of applying for stuff I've been able to actually play and enjoy stuff guilt free. Shame I couldn't go out and get a meal somewhere to celebrate but that's a pretty minor issue.

I'm pretty nervous, not really about the job itself. More because when starting previous jobs I've not known anything about my co-workers where with this one, they have a team page on their company website that really illustrates that everyone I'm about to work with has done some incredible things, lived all over the world and worked on a bunch of stuff they're clearly very proud of (rightly so) and I kind of haven't. The other thing is just starting a job working from home and probably not actually "meeting" my coworkers until June/July at the earliest is going to feel extremely weird I think. Anyone who has been in a similar position able to give any tips haha?

Sounds like classic imposter syndrome to me.

I struggle with it really, really badly as well so I can't give you a magic tip to make it go away, but you need to try to remember as best you can that you are you and not someone else, and you can't constantly compare yourself to other people or you'll go mad and/or freeze up and never achieve anything for yourself.

They've done a bunch of stuff but that doesn't mean that they're, like, better people than you, y'know? Everyone's moving at their own pace and doing their own thing.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:35

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

Miftan posted:

Sounds like a liberal cop out, comrade.

i think it was presented as such - i don't think you are supposed to agree with the characters quite so much as you are supposed to realize this is genuinely how people think.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:36

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

Pistol_Pete posted:

I don't really care about abs, I just want a tummy that does this: | instead of this: )

that's why you gotta build abs

('abs' does not mean 'six pack' and they don't need to be visible, they're just muscles like any other. Getting Regular Muscles when you've never had them before is the way to look good in general)

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:37

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Barry Foster posted:

that's why you gotta build abs

('abs' does not mean 'six pack' and they don't need to be visible, they're just muscles like any other. Getting Regular Muscles when you've never had them before is the way to look good in general)

Very much this.

I'm less than a kg away from hitting my weight goal, but my tummy isn't entirely flat yet. You need to do a lot of stomach stuff first!

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:39

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

and tbh if you're past thirty and you've not got a history of working out then getting a perfectly flat stomach is going to be pretty difficult anyway. Don't run yourself into the ground chasing it, just get fitter in general and you'll be happier and look better generally

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:43

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

take steroids op

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:45

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

If you have managed to find yourself in a situation where someone is willing to continually give you money for doing something that is not particularly unpleasant for you then you have won the job market. Ability or failure to do this is not a reflection on you as a person but it is nice to have money. Your value as an individual is extremely unlikely to be related to your job performance unless your job is like, a firefighter or a medic in which case doing well at them probably makes you pretty cool.

But yeah, I haven't done anything of note and I definitely wouldn't for a minute consider that to be a problem. Probably there are people who have done interesting things out there, but they will be just as dead as me within the century, so that doesn't bother me much.

I don't know if that is necessarily very helpful but it is sort of the basis for why I don't really have impostor syndrome, or any other issues with an externally derived sense of value. Basically the places you have ticked off a list or the fancy things you might have done are not really a good metric of personal value, or anything else, I don't think. Your value as a person starts out average and probably doesn't go much higher than that and unless you start noncing or torying or whatever it probably doesn't go much below that either.

You are probably just as cool as your co-workers and imo if they can't do any marxism they're probably less cool.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:45

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Miftan posted:

Saudi and China DO get the same hatred, just probably not from the groups of people you usually associate with. And weirdly, some of those people don't give much of a poo poo about Israel. It's almost as if one's cultural baggage and geography have something to do with which causes people get hung up on!

Anyway my other point is, your argument definitely doesn't hold any water when you're talking about left wing jews, so you might want to reconsider it when addressing it to us.

Points taken. And I did say that my comment wasn't really fairly directed at posters in this thread.

Tarnop posted:

Just a reminder that this all started with a post speaking positively about scientific work out of Israel, so the antisemites that therattle thinks are in this thread exist entirely in his mind.

His whole argument is "it's weird to read positive things about Israel in a thread that I assumed was antisemitic from the moment I started posting here"

See above. Anyway, it's close - it's weird to read positive things about Israel in a thread that is usually very negative. It was a recognition of that weirdness that prompted my post.

Failed Imagineer posted:

Yes, but it's the second paragraph I posted which you didn't bold that contains the answer you seek.

Fair enough you're being all now, but your posts still seem to contain a certain "hmmmm there's a reason you're all picking on poor Israel, I just dare not speak its name". I think I'd rather just be frankly called an anti-Semite by some Hasbarist weirdo tbh, at least then they might be doing it as gainful employment

SA's intense racism propagates backwards through the space-time continuum like the final episode of TNG

Oh, I will say it plainly: I think in some quarters the intense criticism Israel draws is due in part (large, small or otherwise) due to anti-semitism. In other quarters (and I'd class this thread as that) it's not. That's why I said that this thread probably wasn't a fair recipient for my comment.

I understand your second paragraph. But it doesn't convince. The fact that Israel is used as a cudgel to attack the left doesn't fully explain (to me at least) why it is so hated. I acknowledge that I am probably alone in this thread in thinking that.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:50

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

My coworkers may be more accomplished but I have many years of high-impact posting under my belt.

Everybody is a loving idiot, and if you (an idiot) have convinced some other morons to pay you money for your time then you've already won

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:51

thebardyspoon: Jun 30, 2005

Barry Foster posted:

Sounds like classic imposter syndrome to me.

I struggle with it really, really badly as well so I can't give you a magic tip to make it go away, but you need to try to remember as best you can that you are you and not someone else, and you can't constantly compare yourself to other people or you'll go mad and/or freeze up and never achieve anything for yourself.

They've done a bunch of stuff but that doesn't mean that they're, like, better people than you, y'know? Everyone's moving at their own pace and doing their own thing.

Oh yeah absolutely, it is definitely imposter syndrome. It's hard to shake that feeling but my logic so far has been they didn't hire me on a whim presumably, they thought about it for a couple of weeks, they feel like I'll fit in and that this opportunity will be the sort of thing that'd make a similarly impressive part of someone's career. Your advice is spot on as well though so cheers.

The tips thing was more the "starting a job entirely working from home" aspect really. It's going to feel so weird I think, like my usual way of getting to know people is entirely out and this last year has utterly destroyed my ability to make small talk I've realised cause I barely talk to anyone outside of my friend group on discord and don't do anything of note. They had somebody start a few months ago and I think some other people will be starting at the same time or around when I start though so they probably have some idea on how to go about it. My job is going to involve talking to pretty much everyone in some capacity so I should be good once I actually start really, it's this period where all I can do is wait that's making my brain create problems.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:51

fatelvis: Mar 21, 2010

thebardyspoon posted:

So I got the job I was panicking about in the January thread. Starting it in a few weeks and am now enjoying that limbo period where you've signed the documents to start a new job and are just waiting to start it. Without the stress of applying for stuff I've been able to actually play and enjoy stuff guilt free. Shame I couldn't go out and get a meal somewhere to celebrate but that's a pretty minor issue.

I'm pretty nervous, not really about the job itself. More because when starting previous jobs I've not known anything about my co-workers where with this one, they have a team page on their company website that really illustrates that everyone I'm about to work with has done some incredible things, lived all over the world and worked on a bunch of stuff they're clearly very proud of (rightly so) and I kind of haven't. The other thing is just starting a job working from home and probably not actually "meeting" my coworkers until June/July at the earliest is going to feel extremely weird I think. Anyone who has been in a similar position able to give any tips haha?

Having joined a job where they all had about pages that made themselves sound fantastic - everyone turned out to be utterly normal and boring almost. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:53

fatelvis: Mar 21, 2010

Failed Imagineer posted:

My coworkers may be more accomplished but I have many years of high-impact posting under my belt.

Everybody is a loving idiot, and if you (an idiot) have convinced some other morons to pay you money for your time then you've already won

This is about right.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:55

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

thebardyspoon posted:

.

The tips thing was more the "starting a job entirely working from home" aspect really. It's going to feel so weird I think, like my usual way of getting to know people is entirely out and this last year has utterly destroyed my ability to make small talk I've realised cause I barely talk to anyone outside of my friend group on discord and don't do anything of note. They had somebody start a few months ago and I think some other people will be starting at the same time or around when I start though so they probably have some idea on how to go about it. My job is going to involve talking to pretty much everyone in some capacity so I should be good once I actually start really, it's this period where all I can do is wait that's making my brain create problems.

For new starts in my department I try to make an effort to reach out for a virtual coffee chat or whatever, though tbh sometimes I'm just busy posting. Maybe check with your manager (?) if they do anything like that where they encourage people to reach out for informal connects or virtual fight clubs or whatever. Sounds like you'll be interacting with the whole team anyway so it'll be a self-resolving issue and you just have to suck up the awkward shameful feelings for a few weeks

# ? Feb 22, 2021 15:55

Barry Foster: Dec 24, 2007; What is going wrong with that one (face is longer than it should be)

thebardyspoon posted:

Oh yeah absolutely, it is definitely imposter syndrome. It's hard to shake that feeling but my logic so far has been they didn't hire me on a whim presumably, they thought about it for a couple of weeks, they feel like I'll fit in and that this opportunity will be the sort of thing that'd make a similarly impressive part of someone's career. Your advice is spot on as well though so cheers.

The tips thing was more the "starting a job entirely working from home" aspect really. It's going to feel so weird I think, like my usual way of getting to know people is entirely out and this last year has utterly destroyed my ability to make small talk I've realised cause I barely talk to anyone outside of my friend group on discord and don't do anything of note. They had somebody start a few months ago and I think some other people will be starting at the same time or around when I start though so they probably have some idea on how to go about it. My job is going to involve talking to pretty much everyone in some capacity so I should be good once I actually start really, it's this period where all I can do is wait that's making my brain create problems.

Sure man, glad I could help.

There are so many people who only achieve something of note in, like, their 40s or 50s. Late bloomers. There are many, many, many more people who never really achieve much of anything, like Owl pointed out. The point of life isn't really to Achieve Stuff According To Mutually Agreed Standards And On A Mutually Agreed Timeline, it's to be happy however you can (at as little or no expense to other people that you can manage) and make other people happy in turn. Having a steady mind and a sense of peace is the most valuable thing there is, far more so than travelling around the world or whatever. It's loving hard to accomplish, especially for anxious people like yourself or myself, but it's worth focusing on.

And as you say, everyone starts somewhere. I have a feeling once you start you're going to relax pretty quickly (probably after an awkward couple of weeks). So long as the job isn't lovely or exploitative and the people aren't dickheads, of course.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:00

Inexplicable Humblebrag: Sep 20, 2003

Failed Imagineer posted:

tbh sometimes I'm just busy posting.

imposter syndrome more like "I'm poster" syndrome

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:01

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

What the gently caress is a virtual fight club

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:02

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Tarnop posted:

What the gently caress is a virtual fight club

It's a bit like what I have been doing: picking fights with people on the internet.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:08

ItohRespectArmy: Sep 11, 2019; Cutest In The World, Six Time DDT Ironheavymetalweight champion, Two Time International Princess champion, winner of two tournaments, a Princess Tag Team champion, And a pretty good singer too!
"When I was an idol, I felt nothing every day but now that I'm a pro wrestler I'm in pain constantly!"

therattle posted:

It's a bit like what I have been doing: picking fights with people on the internet.

have you heard of the website twitter, it sounds like it would appeal to you.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:13

Jaeluni Asjil: Apr 18, 2018; Sorry I thought you were a landlord when I gave you your old avatar!

fatelvis posted:

Having joined a job where they all had about pages that made themselves sound fantastic - everyone turned out to be utterly normal and boring almost. I wouldn't worry about that at all.

One of my younger relatives was extremely sporty and his 'about' page on his then company's website was full of puff about how he won this that or the other while wearing the company colours. Great. Then one day he turned up to work all set to represent the company on yet another sporty thing and was called in to the office, told someone else was going instead, and by the way here's your notice.
Turned out that he 'wasn't a good fit' because he stuck to his paid hours (9-530) and didn't stay late and had also taken 2 weeks unpaid leave - with the company's agreement - to look after his terminally ill father at the end of his life who needed to be physically carried to the loo.

From what I've seen in the corporate world, 'being a team player' is 90% of the 'fitting in'.

Just about everyone suffers from imposter syndrome - in some cases justified - stares hard at the ministerial cabinet.

Jaeluni Asjil fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 22, 2021

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:15

TRIXNET: Jun 6, 2004; META AS FUCK.

Jaeluni Asjil posted:

Just about everyone suffers from imposter syndrome - in some cases justified - stares hard at the ministerial cabinet.

Tbh I think by definition anyone in the cabinet is more likely to be experiencing the dunning-kruger effect, lol if any of them have the self awareness or empathy to suffer imposter syndrome.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:19

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

therattle posted:

Oh, I will say it plainly: I think in some quarters the intense criticism Israel draws is due in part (large, small or otherwise) due to anti-semitism. In other quarters (and I'd class this thread as that) it's not. That's why I said that this thread probably wasn't a fair recipient for my comment.

I think large part of why you think the vitriol is so intense is you are going in thinking any criticism is going to be biased on antisemitism so you ascribed to it more ill intent than to other criticism.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:21

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

imposter syndrome more like "I'm poster" syndrome

Tarnop posted:

What the gently caress is a virtual fight club

Something I just made up but should definitely exist in the corporate world

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:28

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

anyone who criticises me is being antisemitic

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:29

big scary monsters: Sep 2, 2011; -~Ｓｋｕｌｌｗａｖｅ~-

Barry Foster posted:

Sounds like classic imposter syndrome to me.

I struggle with it really, really badly as well so I can't give you a magic tip to make it go away, but you need to try to remember as best you can that you are you and not someone else, and you can't constantly compare yourself to other people or you'll go mad and/or freeze up and never achieve anything for yourself.

They've done a bunch of stuff but that doesn't mean that they're, like, better people than you, y'know? Everyone's moving at their own pace and doing their own thing.

Yeah. My mentor at my job comes from a remarkably similar early background to me, but is a year younger and probably five years ahead of me career-wise. As far as I can tell they took the direct, straightforward route to where they are, and are great at their job. I took a meandering and roundabout way, with years out from what you might consider the "proper" career progression. If I compare myself directly to my mentor in that respect, it can be demotivating. But in those years I met people who became important to me, learned skills and ways of thinking that have shaped who I am now, and the experiences led to my decisions in coming to this job, the place where I live, and the life that I have. I can't know where I would have ended up had I also taken the proper route, but there's certainly no guarantee it would be better for me. I also have no idea what my mentor's own anxieties or feelings of inadequacy are, although I'm sure they have them.

I often feel as though I am surrounded my incredibly smart, motivated and competent people and wonder how I, an extremely lazy person and not particularly great thinker, ended up among them. But as far as I can tell my colleagues like me and appreciate my contributions, and people generally tell me they're happy with my work. From that I either have to conclude that everyone else is putting on just as much of a front as I am, the bar just isn't as high as I think it is, I consistently underrate myself, or all of the above. At some point when everyone is telling you you are doing just fine you just have to try to believe them. Much easier said than done, I know - my partner has horrible imposter syndrome and though all the evidence is that her colleagues value her and she's great at what she does she really struggles to accept that.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:30

therattle: Jul 24, 2007; Soiled Meat

Rumda posted:

I think large part of why you think the vitriol is so intense is you are going in thinking any criticism is going to be biased on antisemitism so you ascribed to it more ill intent than to other criticism.

I don't think that's really true. I genuinely don't believe that most criticism of Israel is based on antisemitism. It's all pretty much warranted. What I am not sure is warranted is what I have observed which is Israel being used as the epitome of an evil regime, and the sheer vitriol which other, equally deserving (at least in my view) states don't really seem to get. Like I said, I had a lot of Zionist indoctrination growing up, so perhaps I am seeing something that isn't there (but I don't think so) . And maybe I don't see that same vitriol applied to other states like Saudi as much because I don't move in those circles, or because Saudi isn't thought to be controversial in the same way so there isn't something to be reacted against. But that I am not convinced. Maybe I don't want to be.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:31

stev: Jan 22, 2013; Please be excited.

Johnson just casually announcing that zero covid is impossible and that a spike in deaths is inevitable no matter what he does. oval office.

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:39

SixFigureSandwich: Oct 30, 2004; Exciting Lemon

Barry Foster posted:

Sure man, glad I could help.

There are so many people who only achieve something of note in, like, their 40s or 50s. Late bloomers. There are many, many, many more people who never really achieve much of anything, like Owl pointed out. The point of life isn't really to Achieve Stuff According To Mutually Agreed Standards And On A Mutually Agreed Timeline, it's to be happy however you can (at as little or no expense to other people that you can manage) and make other people happy in turn. Having a steady mind and a sense of peace is the most valuable thing there is, far more so than travelling around the world or whatever. It's loving hard to accomplish, especially for anxious people like yourself or myself, but it's worth focusing on.

And as you say, everyone starts somewhere. I have a feeling once you start you're going to relax pretty quickly (probably after an awkward couple of weeks). So long as the job isn't lovely or exploitative and the people aren't dickheads, of course.

Yeah this is good advice

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:41

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# ? May 20, 2024 20:20

Rumda: Nov 4, 2009; Moth Lesbian Comrade

therattle posted:

I don't think that's really true. I genuinely don't believe that most criticism of Israel is based on antisemitism. It's all pretty much warranted. What I am not sure is warranted is what I have observed which is Israel being used as the epitome of an evil regime, and the sheer vitriol which other, equally deserving (at least in my view) states don't really seem to get. Like I said, I had a lot of Zionist indoctrination growing up, so perhaps I am seeing something that isn't there (but I don't think so) . And maybe I don't see that same vitriol applied to other states like Saudi as much because I don't move in those circles, or because Saudi isn't thought to be controversial in the same way so there isn't something to be reacted against. But that I am not convinced. Maybe I don't want to be.

you intellectually know its warranted but upbringing has long lasting and deep effects

# ? Feb 22, 2021 16:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT February 2021 - No deal is better than a Baddiel

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