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Bobby Deluxe posted:it's exactly the kind of essentialist trashing she criticises at about 1:12:30 good lord
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Feb 24, 2021 16:04
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OwlFancier posted:You seem extremely defensive about this and I'm not sure it's to your credit. Trashing culture is incredibly frustrating to see, especially when its leveraged against people who are trying to be better.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:04
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Right, but I'm not talking about eating orphan burgers, I'm talking about a perfectly normal burger which tarnop is trying to picket because one of the people involved killed a child in a way entirely unrelated to the burger. Also in that metaphor neither of the people are involved in the production of burgers any more. I think you're giving D&D a game: Whose attempt to move away from wierd race science stuff that was highly publicised as being in an additional paid for supplement amounted to "Just do whatever, gently caress it we don't know" on 1 page. Continued to push Ravenloft, a setting where a minority group actually just are working with Unequivocal Evil Way too much credit here Also not to belabor the point but Contra "Gonna triple down on making GBS threads on nonbinary people" Points isn't perhaps the best defender of what cancel culture is.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:05
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SLIGHTLY LEFT WING PARTY
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Feb 24, 2021 16:05
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I think specifically the 'reminder that' wording wound me up, and honestly I don't think I'm in the wrong. I don't think the tone is really what needs policing there either. Did they fire the people who did the thing tarnop mentioned? Because I don't think they are trying very hard if not.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:08
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and full disclosure, i play 5th. there are a bunch of reasons i draw the line there, and while i can say "well, i didn't pay for it" i didn't pay for 4e either so it's hard to assign that a moral dimension, you know? there are a bunch of dull, pragmatic reasons it worked out that way, one of which being it's a game people are running that most of my social sphere are comfortable with and i didn't want to get all grognardy about it, two because critical role and adventure zone sort of canonized it as the "core" tabletop game, w/e. my personal perspective is irrelevant to the moral argument nor the legitimacy of the protest. and frankly, i suspect i am susceptible to the argument being made, and as such i like hearing people making their case. i think such arguments are morally valuable - we only change our behaviour by thinking about it.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:08
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Stormgale posted:
i like contra for being sorta self-aware as an rear end in a top hat, though she's definitely in the camp of youtube people who are being driven insane by youtube but can't stop it is funny though that in like every video she makes some snide comment about NBs, but I find the drama between NBs and other trans people interesting. the NB lot seem to have thrown a hand grenade into the carefully constructed ideology of people like Nat and you can tell it bugs her even if she knows it shouldn't
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Feb 24, 2021 16:11
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Right, but I'm not talking about eating orphan burgers I just got a bunch of chocolate from a socialist workers' collective in Ghana that does tree to bar processing and sets their own pricing structure, so I think I can have one small orphan slider and still be morally ahead of anyone that's bought a nestle bar in the past six months. CoolCab tell me where can I get the good orph burgs.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:12
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OwlFancier posted:Did they fire the people who did the thing tarnop mentioned? Zak Smith (alleged rapist) and RPG Pundit (online racist who left Canada to go to Uruguay with the intent to shoot leftists) were freelancers. Mearls still works for WotC on D&D.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:14
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CoolCab posted:you have vanishingly little ability to influence policy or outcomes as a consumer but that does not mean you can abandon the boycott, one the handful of tools permitted to you in a capitalist society - you would be sitting in the front of the bus in Montgomery in response to Then where do you draw the line? Do you say that you won't shop at any supermarket that has agreed deals with totalitarian regimes who repress minorities? And if there isn't another food shop in your town/village, is it ethical to shop there? What if there's a bus that runs to the next town over, but it's owned by union-busters and staffed by cunts? Is the moral decision to starve rather than engage with an ethically-distasteful organisation?
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Feb 24, 2021 16:15
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Guavanaut posted:I am, CoolCab said they're delicious and he's got good taste in burgs iirc. i'm trying to figure out if they're better carbon consumption than beef, first. i feel like it's a solid maybe?
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Feb 24, 2021 16:16
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terfs: gender exists! contrapoints: no!!! NBs: gender doesnt exist lol contrapoints: NOOOO!
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Feb 24, 2021 16:16
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worse than useless https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1364578339663585281?s=20 https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1356703841304125440?s=20
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Feb 24, 2021 16:16
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don't play D&D, play literally any other game I find this especially bizarre because it seems like so much of Starmer's strategy is "national unity government" where Labour supports the Tories because they don't want to be seen as needlessly oppositional in a time of crisis. but then they do this
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Feb 24, 2021 16:19
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£500 to be fired isnt a very good deal
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Feb 24, 2021 16:19
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kingturnip posted:Then where do you draw the line? Do you say that you won't shop at any supermarket that has agreed deals with totalitarian regimes who repress minorities? And if there isn't another food shop in your town/village, is it ethical to shop there? What if there's a bus that runs to the next town over, but it's owned by union-busters and staffed by cunts? Is the moral decision to starve rather than engage with an ethically-distasteful organisation? you have to draw it! there is no shortcut where you can absolve yourself of moral agency and even worse, the actual meaning of "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" comes into play and you know you are doomed to failure - you will never build a moral life, just the least immoral you can. you still have to do it! much like striking, you occasionally have to withdraw collectively in order to influence decision-making - and there the "is it a moral decision to starve" argument holds exactly as much water. you will never, ever gain the concessions needed to make the system "moral" but you might do some good and it's worth doing for that reason.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:20
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Tarnop posted:Zak Smith (alleged rapist) and RPG Pundit (online racist who left Canada to go to Uruguay with the intent to shoot leftists) were freelancers. Mearls still works for WotC on D&D. It should be noted that Mearls brought those people on board (essentially as a snub to 4e fans and creators in order to appeal to the vocal gamers who hated 4e) and after they were known to be abusers
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Feb 24, 2021 16:21
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Lt. Danger posted:don't play D&D, play literally any other game the starmer project is deeply ideological, its authoritarian neoliberalism. so yeah they will back policemen being able to commit crimes but not rises in corporation tax i think its a mistake to think they are just going along with the government and starmer doesnt have any principles, he clearly does andthey are increasingly clear. obviously the media can't or won't see it but they are paid not to know or notice.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:21
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I genuinely can't decide if Starmer is an op to destroy the left with no intention of actually winning or if he's just been so bullied by the press and working in the state apparatus that he really does think what he's doing is a great strategy Like I'm pretty sure it's the latter but if 10 years down the line someone reveals that he was an MI5 asset the whole time I would not be surprised
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Feb 24, 2021 16:23
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I think that is missing out on the idea that he hasn't had to be bullied into thinking it's a great idea he just actually thinks that by himself.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:24
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CoolCab posted:i'm trying to figure out if they're better carbon consumption than beef, first. i feel like it's a solid maybe? There's no real quality control on orphan meat, no guidelines on rearing conditions, hygiene or humane slaughter, and you have no idea of their provenance and health. Until orphan farms are properly regulated I'd stick to orphan meat alternatives.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:28
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I think specifically the 'reminder that' wording wound me up, and honestly I don't think I'm in the wrong. I don't think the tone is really what needs policing there either. lovely wording acknowledged and again, I'm sorry I went in like that. This is a good topic of discussion imo and I'm sorry I started it on a confrontational note. Stormgale has already mentioned some points about why their attempts to be better feel like lip service. I've also read accounts by at least one person from minority groups who was hired to work on diversity and representation in the game, and their experience was a terrible one. I can probably find the relevant post if you want to read it.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:33
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lol if this is true https://skwawkbox.org/2021/02/24/exclusive-labour-planning-to-imposd-centrist-former-mep-as-liverpool-mayoral-candidate/
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Feb 24, 2021 16:33
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Tarnop posted:
i'd be interested
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Feb 24, 2021 16:39
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Communist Thoughts posted:i'd be interested https://twitter.com/OrionDBlack/status/1279208531103629312 Here's the one I know of Found this one as well while searching: https://twitter.com/zbeg/status/1269962379925708801
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Feb 24, 2021 16:43
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Stormgale posted:Also not to belabor the point but Contra "Gonna triple down on making GBS threads on nonbinary people" Points isn't perhaps the best defender of what cancel culture is. What I will question is that you are querying her presence in the argument rather than the argument I referenced from the video with a convenient timestamp. Which ironically is the kind of essentialism the video concludes with. Tarnop posted:Zak Smith (alleged rapist) and RPG Pundit (online racist who left Canada to go to Uruguay with the intent to shoot leftists) were freelancers. Mearls still works for WotC on D&D. Mearls does not work on the P&P side of things any more, though I will admit, the fact that he works for the company at all (especially in the arguably more lucrative gaming division) is still not great. I just don't think it's a good enough reason to cancel the work of so many other people. I take exception though to people dragging people like Todd Kenrick, Chris Perkins and less commonly Mercer or the cast of CR for not constantly and visibly (enough) denouncing the traitor Mike Mearls and all products thus tainted by his touch. Your initial post literally said not to play D&D and then went on to give inaccurate info about why. It's also a little disingenuous to word it that either of them 'designed it' when a huge number of people worked on it, neither of them were lead, and the product is in no way endorsing or furthering their personal views. Absolutely people should be aware of those problems and contextualise them in light of what the company's trying to do. But trashing an RPG system and saying you shouldn't play it just seems to be feeding idiots like Laurence Fox's views when they mistake trashing culture for the more valid and necessary call-out culture.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:47
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Those are the two I was thinking of, thanks Stormgale. This might be an easier to read version of Orion Black's post
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Feb 24, 2021 16:48
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Please, please watch the video. I'm not going to argue the NB point because it's not my argument to have, either from the perspective of a trans woman defending their gender presentation or from the perspective of an NB person feeling like their identity is being thrown under the bus. Though Wynn does defend her view on that in the episode, so if you find that aggravating feel free to skip. I watched the video when it came out, I still think Contra is someone who basically makes personal thoughts into wider worldview and has no ability to back down and will double down forever. This is the video where she uses example of people, talking about her without every mentioning her directly (in a twitter sense) as the wave of criticism, when she by definition had to literally seek these things out to throw in videos after (like making a profile of a they/she lesbian to be a rhetorical counterfoil). It's a bad video, and it's basically a personal defence of what she said couched in cancel culture language (like how could people know buck angel who is basically only famous at this point for being transmedicalist and outing one of the wachowskis is bad.) What is the definiton of "Dosent work on the P&P side of things anymore" becuase he's still the franchise manager of D&D, after people working at wizards tried to imply he didn't work on it anymore.
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Feb 24, 2021 16:54
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Stormgale posted:Contra is someone who basically makes personal thoughts into wider worldview also the reason I stopped watching her lol
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Feb 24, 2021 16:57
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lol https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1364292401226002441?s=20
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Feb 24, 2021 17:05
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Contrapoints is just someone who got really famous really quickly, it's not like they send you a guide when you reach 1 million subs that tells you you can't call people out for talking poo poo about you any more.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:06
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i thought the videos about transitioning and what it did to her sexuality were very interesting, but yeah most of her "serious" videos are her arguing with literal strawmen and often being defeated by them i still quite like her cause i never expected her to be anything than what she has turned out to be. i liked whichever vid where shes like "politics is what i cared about when i was a male alcoholic, now i just want to be beautiful"
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Feb 24, 2021 17:09
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Christ I don't care about any of this tedious twitter bullshit. Contrapoints makes accessible well-intentioned videos that provide good introductions to various left-wing topics and does a hell of a lot more good than bad. She is also a self-admitted degenerate shitposting drunk who sometimes posts dumb poo poo, but tries to actually engage with own flaws and grow as a person. No one is forcing you to watch her, but dear lord that poor woman deserves a break from the anime profile pic weirdos who keep insisting she's no better than an alt-right sockpuppet.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:12
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Last time I watched anything of hers she was just basically wrong, but at great length, so eh.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:14
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ThomasPaine posted:self-admitted degenerate shitposting drunk who sometimes posts dumb poo poo whomst among us
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Feb 24, 2021 17:15
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i liked it better when we were arguing about dnd
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Feb 24, 2021 17:15
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stellar numbers for the competent and sensible grown up
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Feb 24, 2021 17:15
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OwlFancier posted:she was just basically wrong, but at great length Ah, which D&D threads does she post in?
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Feb 24, 2021 17:16
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MikeCrotch posted:I genuinely can't decide if Starmer is an op to destroy the left with no intention of actually winning or if he's just been so bullied by the press and working in the state apparatus that he really does think what he's doing is a great strategy Have we considered that Starmer knows the Labour party is too rotten to the core, and has to die for something new to emerge?  In all seriousness, if he's an MI5 stooge, or if he genuinely thinks he's playing 7th dimension chess and doing a good job, then the outcome is basically the same; a tame, hobbled opposition that won't rock the boat, and will agree with the worst that the Tories have to offer.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:17
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She's fine, I prefer to get my bready rants from Lindsay Ellis, Hbomb and Abigail Thorn overall though.
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Feb 24, 2021 17:17
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