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Jose posted:even sepp blatter thought giving it to qatar was too obviously corrupt and wanted england to win it for a bunch of reasons including that. michel platini though convinced everyone else that qatar should get it Don't forget Platini - the guy running on a platform of cleaning out the corruption of the Blatter cabal - refused to return a £20k watch he received as a "gift" from the Brazilian FA, because he thought it was rude to return a gift.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:14
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i'll bet near the next election we find out the reason for keir's permanently tortured expression: he has eaten only corned beef hash for lunch and dinner since 1992 all bran with water in for breakfast
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Feb 28, 2021 01:18
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Jose posted:even sepp blatter thought giving it to qatar was too obviously corrupt and wanted england to win it for a bunch of reasons including that. michel platini though convinced everyone else that qatar should get it sepp posting
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Feb 28, 2021 01:21
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The issue with the nationalism discussion as far as i could tell is that people were arguing two separate points completely past one another. As a national movement any party that wants political power at the moment has to give a show that it (and nowadays the leader of it in particular) loves this country. Part of the media campaign against corbyn was to give the impression that he didnt care about this country. Kier has attempted to reverse on this, but honestly it all feels stage managed and insincere because of its extremely plastic presentation. However on a personal level some people are going to feel a lot less blind ties for their local area or nationality than others, people are individuals after all and unfortunately politics isnt something that can be individually person centred.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:42
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I can state with absolute, 100% confidence that not a single Qatari died in the construction of those sites. Or even so much as set foot on any of the sites. Which raises the number of inaccurate words in my post to one.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:48
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And yes, some of the pretense that has to be put on to demonstrate that you love this country is a bit poo poo because its dominated by a culture built on right wing cultural tropes. Making a big deal about wearing a poppy being the only way to respect the war dead is poo poo. Our national obsession with the idea of the stiff upper lip, respecting the armed forces etc, we've spent the last x years building an idea of loving your country based on nostalgia for a failed empire and of the way things were when Britain was genuinely important. The only thing the left has been able to contribute to the idea of being british is the nhs, and thats mostly because the populace is smart enough to accept that the nhs is a good thing.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:57
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NotJustANumber99 posted:given your idea of things to be optimistic about I'm just off to the woodshed... I may be some time You want to be careful, I saw something nasty in the woodshed.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:14
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It's very difficult to square that belief with the idea that we have to pander to the nationalists, because if it has been such a miserable failure for the entirety of the last century, why keep doing it?
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Feb 28, 2021 02:14
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To summarise my point, owlfancier is right that the poo poo politicians have to talk or pretend to care about is stupid and imo an issue with the shift towards a more presidential style of politics where prospective leaders have to humanise themselves. Corbyn's ability to tell ant amd dec apart is irrelevant to his ability to lead the country. Yet it is important. The majority of voters dont look at politics every day, they dont post in politics threads or listen to the politics podcasts or go to the politics discord. At best they interact with the news once a day, which is at best vaguely centre left and at worst wants to bring back hanging. They barely care about policies in a lot of cases and a good deal of people vote for the red or blue team because they always have, or their family or town normally have. For the swing voter they care if corbyn knows what gogglebox is because that reassures them that hes just a guy like they are. I put it to this thread that theres a lot of reasons why the tories beat labour, and why johnson continues to poll better than kier, but a big part of the reason is that the public is able to identity more with johnson and thinks he's a guy just like them. Johnson as the clown, the hedonist, the guy with multiple children by different mothers is more interesting, more relatable than corbyn (vegetarian who makes jam and tends allotments for fun) or starmer (literal knight of the realm amd i dont even know what he claims to be into). E: To answer the question in owlfancier's post - people arent logical, the biggest vote base is in the elderly, people the national nostalgia is aimed at and who vote in greatest numbers Namtab fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 02:18
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it’s like ten hours later you’re still debating this lol
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Feb 28, 2021 02:23
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But by playing to that are you not just working to make more people like that? Should we not be trying to build better people who aren't as brain rotted as the boomers? Like I just don't agree with this entirely reactive strategy where we're just supposed to accept and compete only on the terms the right sets? Because 1. it clearly doesn't work, and 2. it sacrifices both any worthwhile political goals and also any effort to change how anyone perceives politics? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 02:24
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OwlFancier posted:Who was it said the other day about the ideal capitalist country being one where there are no citizens, only contractors?
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Feb 28, 2021 02:35
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I think if there were a good left wing candidate id want him to tell as many lies to make boomers happy as possible to get elected even if it means he has to watch tv to do it. E: ultimately changing things, building the generation without brainrot, needs left wing hands on the levers of power to do Namtab fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 02:35
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u brexit ukip it posted:If you want football you don't have to wait for winter 2022, there is the UEFA Euro 2020 coming in June, with the semifinals and finals played in Wembley Stadium. England, Scotland and Wales have qualified, teams from Ireland need not apply and if you think Gibraltar needs to have their own football team you're just taking the piss. gibraltar own
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Feb 28, 2021 02:38
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I don't think leftism is compatible with lies, though, because someone who could lie convincingly enough to get the boomers to vote for them would just look like a tory. Leftism necessarily comes from a basic honesty of intent, which is why all the people who lie about it are massive turd right wingers. Because saying anything to get into power is something only they can do, because the only people willing to be that open minded are credulous liberals and lefties going "well let's give him a chance, he might not be that bad". The right know exactly what they want and they consistently vote for it all the time because there is always a real version of it on offer, they don't need to vote for some watered down lefty pretending to be it.
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 02:39
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Id be very happy to lie to literally every boomer if it meant i could get the private sector out of the nhs and build council homes. The ends woukd justify the means
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Feb 28, 2021 02:42
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it'd have been pretty sick of tony blair was the fantasy some people had about him where he just said whatever the papers wanted and then turned out to be turbo-stalin, that's a fun alternate universe.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:42
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Namtab posted:the public is able to identity more with johnson and thinks he's a guy just like them. Johnson as the clown, the hedonist, the guy with multiple children by different mothers is more interesting, more relatable than corbyn (vegetarian who makes jam and tends allotments for fun) or starmer (literal knight of the realm amd i dont even know what he claims to be into). This take is through the of lense media framing and a sort of revisionist history. There are plenty of old boys who tend allotments and make homemade produce in the uk. Britian has been portrayed as a nation of gardeners since ww2 indeed growing your own is linked to ww2. Those traits are now 'werid' because they're corbyn traits. You've got cause and effect around the wrong way. The idea that if Labour were running a piss head adulter they'd be relating to the public better is frankly mad, just look how Prescott was treated. JoylessJester fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 28, 2021 |
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Feb 28, 2021 02:43
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Namtab posted:The issue with the nationalism discussion as far as i could tell is that people were arguing two separate points completely past one another. Corbyn in 2017 came within a whisker of winning the election lol
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Feb 28, 2021 02:44
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crispix posted:Corbyn in 2017 came within a whisker of winning the election lol It would have been great.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:47
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Namtab posted:I think if there were a good left wing candidate id want him to tell as many lies to make boomers happy as possible to get elected even if it means he has to watch tv to do it.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:47
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if the election had been a week or two later labour would have won, you can win an election without pandering to thick bastards for whom britan grate is priority 1
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Feb 28, 2021 02:49
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Pilchenstein posted:Do you think that if Corbyn had been able to tell Ant & Dec apart or had watched Gogglebox or whatever that the papers would've been "oh wow, this guy passes all our tests I guess you should elect him" lol I think, or at least i hope, you know that theres a little bit more nuance to my point than that.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:49
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corbyn also gained in those few weeks tremendous personal appeal to the point where glastonbury was spontaneously chanting for him the media got around that in 2019 by abandoning all pretense of impartiality
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Feb 28, 2021 02:53
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It's exactly that constituency I am concerned with losing, as it happens, because if you devote your efforts to saying what really matters is the circus then aren't you just working to take people who saw through that poo poo and dumb them down?
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Feb 28, 2021 02:55
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crispix posted:if the election had been a week or two later labour would have won, you can win an election without pandering to thick bastards for whom britan grate is priority 1 We have no objective way of knowing or measuring that because the real world point is that the election was held on the day it was held and abour lost it. Id like to think that he would have won with more time, but he may not have.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:56
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i honestly had no idea prior to the last 5 years that the country was so systemically and fundamentally rotten but here we are and i'm an irish nationalist now LOL  of all things
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Feb 28, 2021 02:56
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Namtab posted:We have no objective way of knowing or measuring that because the real world point is that the election was held on the day it was held and abour lost it. Id like to think that he would have won with more time, but he may not have. no but nothing happened in the fortnight that followed that would have altered the trajectory of polling, so i think it's fair to assume that it would have continued in labour's favour
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Feb 28, 2021 02:59
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Namtab posted:I think, or at least i hope, you know that theres a little bit more nuance to my point than that.  For real though, "GLORIOUS BRITANE could never elect a leader who is ignorant of light entertainment" is exactly the same poo poo as "No Labour leader has ever lost the red wall until oval office CORBYN CAME CALLING" - the red wall didn't exist until Corbyn lost it, just as having a BTEC in Ant and Dec Identification (Level 3) wasn't a qualification we required of our leaders until someone noticed it was absent from his CV.
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Feb 28, 2021 02:59
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i will be a tremendous cultural loss to the UK too imo incisive, biting, topical wit like mine
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Feb 28, 2021 03:04
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crispix posted:no but nothing happened in the fortnight that followed that would have altered the trajectory of polling, so i think it's fair to assume that it would have continued in labour's favour Grenfell tower burned down six days after the election, which I think may have altered the trajectory of the polling, somewhat, but probably not in May's favour.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:04
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OwlFancier posted:Grenfell tower burned down six days after the election, which I think may have altered the trajectory of the polling, somewhat, but probably not in May's favour. Yeah I forgot that too. Labour really could have won it two weeks later.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:05
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Imagining the world where Labour won and I'm posting from my nationalised broadband Internet 
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Feb 28, 2021 03:09
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While suffering from insomnia I've worked out what's rattling in my head about this topic. What's being suggested is Gordon Brown's election strategy. Pretend you like the british bands like the Arctic monkeys. Play around with nationalist rhetoric. reference day time tv. Nod and agree with patriotic sentiment. We've already seen how that strategy goes without a compliant media.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:09
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OwlFancier posted:Grenfell tower burned down six days after the election, which I think may have altered the trajectory of the polling, somewhat, but probably not in May's favour. that wouldn't have been an altering though
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Feb 28, 2021 03:10
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Josef bugman posted:It's hard to change peoples minds when the majority of cultural things say that you should not ever consider changing it. Yep. I mean I guess you can try to be a flag shagger in the hopes of persuading people to make positive changes. but when one of the core beliefs behind that flag is "the nation is inherently great and any problems are the fault of nefarious external forces" then you probably aren't going to get the kind of changes you hope for.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:11
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has anyone said KEEF yet
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Feb 28, 2021 03:18
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Fans of the discord will know that i call him Tier nowadays. Post in the discord to see this in action
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Feb 28, 2021 03:21
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ItohRespectArmy posted:has anyone said KEEF yet i did yeah and i even tried to get a sir queef on the go but these people, most of them are obtuse to my genius :/
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Feb 28, 2021 03:27
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I was tempted to suggest queef too if it makes you feel better, your queef must have unconscously imprinted on me.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:29
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