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How are u posted:This is a pretty condescending post with a great parting shot, but I do want to respond to the fact that you're calling the end of American democracy and possible civil war "performing maintenance" and I think that's pretty hosed up. I do not want to live through something like that if it is avoidable, and I believe it is very avoidable. I think you're really underselling the dire consequences of living in a fascist dictatorship run by Trump Republicans. Just want to say thank you for you posts and good point.
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Feb 25, 2021 22:01
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How are u posted:That's not why I voted for Joe Biden. Him being accused of rape had nothing to do with my decision in the voting booth on November 4th. I was not tallying up rape accusations in my head and seeing who came out with fewer. I wasn't thinking "who is a better person? Trump, or Biden?". The reason why it's "existential" to you is that you're only thinking of politics as an abstract thing defined by "how I feel about what's happening." For your average middle class person, the Real Threattm is always something that hasn't happened yet. Sure, the actions of our nation over the last couple decades may have a 7-figure death toll, but that's still apparently within the realm of normalcy because the life of your average middle class American hasn't changed much. Any reasonable and informed perspective would come to the conclusion that things have been "beyond the pale" for a very long time and the idea that someone like Trump was crossing a line into the unacceptable (with the unstated implication that things before were acceptable) is complete nonsense. The idea that Biden might cause less harm is at least plausible (and it's easy enough for me to see why someone might think he would be better in certain areas, even if I disagree), but the idea that our future hinged upon not re-electing Trump in 2020 (or Republicans in 2022/2024) is completely absurd. The real problems that threaten the most people will remain regardless of whether you elect someone like Biden or someone like Trump (or some other Republican). I think people have this idea of what "real evil" is that brings to mind images of foreign and/or historical dictators, but the United States isn't materially any different. It just feels more normal to us because we live here (or live in a country that is culturally similar for some of the people who post here), and so we have trouble perceiving our country in the same way we perceive Bad Countries like Russia or whatever.
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Feb 26, 2021 04:37
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Imagine it's October 2020, and by happenstance I come into possession of incontrovertible proof that Joe Biden knowingly committed a sexual assault. Does lesser evilism demand that I keep this evidence hidden until after the election, or even indefinitely? How exactly does the calculus of sexual assault victims versus theoretical beneficiaries of Joe Biden's policies shake out? Does the same principle apply to other contexts? For example, does every hungry person fed or homeless person sheltered by the Catholic Church excuse them from protecting one pedophile priest? Do the fun team-building activities of the Boy Scouts make up for their overlooking accusations of sexual abuse and molestation? If I'm a highly respected coach for a sports team at a major university, do I get to abuse a few students every now and then as a treat? Verus fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 10:45
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quote:Any reasonable and informed perspective would come to the conclusion that things have been "beyond the pale" for a very long time and the idea that someone like Trump was crossing a line into the unacceptable (with the unstated implication that things before were acceptable) is complete nonsense. You don't engage, you don't try to win the debate, you go for holier-than-thou, I-know-better-than-you, as if no one else has faced the problems you face or has any understanding of the world in which 1 in 6 women have experienced rape and 81% have experienced harassment. As a result you isolate yourself into jeering from the sidelines, and no one cares, because they have things they need accomplished besides a sense of moral superiority.
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Feb 26, 2021 20:40
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Sodomy Hussein posted:You don't engage, you don't try to win the debate, you go for holier-than-thou, I-know-better-than-you, as if no one else has faced the problems you face or has any understanding of the world in which 1 in 6 women have experienced rape and 81% have experienced harassment. As a result you isolate yourself into jeering from the sidelines, and no one cares, because they have things they need accomplished besides a sense of moral superiority. Seems like the person making long explanatory posts about their perspective is perhaps slightly more a part of the debate than someone posting complaints about how they're posting rather than refuting or engaging their points.
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Feb 27, 2021 07:45
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Not Alex posted:Seems like the person making long explanatory posts about their perspective is perhaps slightly more a part of the debate than someone posting complaints about how they're posting rather than refuting or engaging their points. Sodomy Hussein is mad because they're exactly the kind of person being described and have no rebuttal for that. Most of their posts in this thread are defending Biden and Biden supporters, and/or talking about how Tara Reade has serious "credibility problems", how her accusations aren't equivalent to those against Republicans like Trump or Kavanaugh, and how it's completely understandable that the media suppressed her story so hard. And getting upset at someone for being a "backseat mod" when they said that the thread should treat Reade's accusations as true instead of casting aspersions on her claims and coming up with different reasons to not believe her. It's super disgusting and basically exactly the kind of thing FoS said isn't allowed anymore. Edit: Seriously, it's hard enough to post about the kinds of things this thread is about without people engaging in exactly the kind of behavior that helps make it so hard to discuss, but you have the above, as well as multiple people who've accused Reade of lying coming in and talking about how they're so concerned (while also making sure to justify their own votes for Biden and reject any forms of accountability for him and predators like him), and the thread has basically turned into an example of the problems it was initially trying to discuss. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Feb 27, 2021 |
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Feb 27, 2021 08:20
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Anyone can click the "?" next to their avatar and read all their posts to this thread. There aren't many, they fit on one page. I think your summary is pretty uncharitable.
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Feb 27, 2021 16:30
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Back to the topic at hand: I'm finding the media reaction to the new HBO documentary "Allen vs. Farrow" p. interesting, inasmuch as outlets like the LA Times are calling it "the nail in the coffin of Woody Allen's legacy." His assaulting his daughter also happened in the early 1990s, but it's taken three decades for the majority of public & media opinion to swing from "Farrow was a jilted partner taking revenge on Allen by coaching their daughter into allegations against him" to "Holy gently caress, this guy's been a monster forever and it shows in almost every movie he's made." There was a hot minute after the Weinstein story broke, when Dylan Farrow wrote about the assault for the NYT, during which actors pulled out of Allen's movies, but otoh this seemed to be the prevailing (and socially acceptable!) sentiment among many actors, especially those who had worked with Allen: https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwin/status/953260953096900608 I really hope that "Allen vs. Farrow" finally is the nail in this fucker's coffin.
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Feb 27, 2021 17:56
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I remember reading the Moses Farrow blog post and finding it persuasive in its description of Mia Farrow as an abusive and manipulative parent. I suspect people who still hold a professional or sentimental attachment to Woody Allen will always be able to point to that in a "yeah but who knows" sense to rationalize their vocal or tacit support. Despite everything about Woody Allen that makes him a clearly sinister figure. Maybe a bellwether for Biden will be the fate of NY governor Andrew Cuomo. He hasn't been accused of rape but he's been credibly accused of sexual harassment, likely with more to come. He's corrupt and he's an abusive bully and a narcissist. If his political life survives it'll be because he gained so much good will on the national stage for his daily covid briefings, which were a comforting contrast to the Trump show. At this time I think he's likely to survive. Yesterday there was a Cuomo allegations segment on The Brian Lehrer Show where ~80% of callers-in were in defense of Cuomo, with the general theme being "he may be a bad person but he's a good leader" and "but why are these allegations coming out now??". Both of which are bullshit - he is a bad leader and the allegations are not new.
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Feb 27, 2021 19:34
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indiscriminately posted:I remember reading the Moses Farrow blog post and finding it persuasive in its description of Mia Farrow as an abusive and manipulative parent. I suspect people who still hold a professional or sentimental attachment to Woody Allen will always be able to point to that in a "yeah but who knows" sense to rationalize their vocal or tacit support. Despite everything about Woody Allen that makes him a clearly sinister figure. Cuomo/Buttigieg 2028
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Feb 28, 2021 00:32
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indiscriminately posted:
Be careful with those call in shows though because politicians will have staff call in and basically make sure that their calls are the ones that are taken.
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Feb 28, 2021 00:34
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indiscriminately posted:I remember reading the Moses Farrow blog post and finding it persuasive in its description of Mia Farrow as an abusive and manipulative parent. I suspect people who still hold a professional or sentimental attachment to Woody Allen will always be able to point to that in a "yeah but who knows" sense to rationalize their vocal or tacit support. Despite everything about Woody Allen that makes him a clearly sinister figure. https://twitter.com/kirstendanis/status/1365805677986402307 Gulping Again posted:Cuomo/Buttigieg 2028
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Feb 28, 2021 00:56
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Mooseontheloose posted:Be careful with those call in shows though because politicians will have staff call in and basically make sure that their calls are the ones that are taken. I didn't know that but that's plausible to me. The callers who were put on air seemed sincere in that they were credulous/unsophisticated, but the callers they didn't put on the air, the majority, could have been otherwise.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:18
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Definitely going to be interesting to see how the democratic establishment reactions to Cuomo.
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Feb 28, 2021 01:20
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silicone thrills posted:Definitely going to be interesting to see how the democratic establishment reactions to Cuomo. Either pretend it isn’t happening or circle the wagons.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:17
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Nucleic Acids posted:Either pretend it isn’t happening or circle the wagons. I think it wouldn't have made the news if they didn't intend to sacrifice him as a distraction and convenient scapegoat.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:48
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silicone thrills posted:Definitely going to be interesting to see how the democratic establishment reactions to Cuomo. I don't think he's actually all that popular, but idk I could be wrong
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Feb 28, 2021 03:52
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I don't think he's actually all that popular, but idk I could be wrong There was a whole contingent of morons branding themselves cuomosexuals back in March
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Feb 28, 2021 03:53
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silicone thrills posted:There was a whole contingent of morons branding themselves cuomosexuals back in March Yeah, that was back in march, where the thing he had going in his favor was that he was necessarily being compared to trump. Which would make a bucket of dried paint look competent. He's not rahm levels of personally unpopular, but he's the de facto head of the ny political machine and while that might translate to a ton of political power in ny or even new england, he's made *a lot* of enemies and very few friends at a national level.
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Feb 28, 2021 03:58
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I mean, I thought Joe Biden was a massively unpopular piece of poo poo and he seemed to be until the Onion accidentally made morons think he was just cool diamond Joe. I've got no faith in how far the party will go to protect sex monsters.
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Feb 28, 2021 04:01
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silicone thrills posted:I mean, I thought Joe Biden was a massively unpopular piece of poo poo and he seemed to be until the Onion accidentally made morons think he was just cool diamond Joe. I've got no faith in how far the party will go to protect sex monsters. joe biden has always been fairly popular for a politican: https://news.gallup.com/poll/186167/biden-maintains-positive-image.aspx - his approval rating was only underwater once when he was obama's vp. he also never faced a serious challenger for senate reelection, even when delaware supported republicans for president.
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Feb 28, 2021 04:06
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John_A_Tallon posted:I think it wouldn't have made the news if they didn't intend to sacrifice him as a distraction and convenient scapegoat. Do you think the Dems have complete control over all news agencies?
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Feb 28, 2021 04:07
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socialsecurity posted:Do you think the Dems have complete control over all news agencies? I think there's enough collusion between the owners of the major agencies and their bought politicians that this would have been spiked until it was convenient. If you check out the original tweet by Lindsey Boylan, it was made December 13th, 2020.
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Feb 28, 2021 04:25
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The wind could loving change direction and ted cruz could be the new patron saint of the "liberal left" according the corporate american media. There would be a bunch of internet nerds who would be like "wait, ted cruz is bad! remember?!" but most people would be like "yeah, whatever, i don't care, the news is telling me something else." Cummo made some literal diehard fans last year thanks to propaganda, and he's not going to lose those fans until they die due to municipal negligence.
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Feb 28, 2021 10:56
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The primaries pretty much confirmed cable news is mind control for boomers. You can't get through to them when they believe whatever the TV told them to last night.
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Feb 28, 2021 12:44
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The primaries pretty much confirmed cable news is mind control for boomers. You can't get through to them when they believe whatever the TV told them to last night. "Would you rather I believe Fox News?" Cripes some of the implications are terrifying
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Feb 28, 2021 16:51
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Here's some more Reade + RT writing for the forums metadrama: https://twitter.com/ReadeAlexandra/status/1366104085733105666?s=20
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Feb 28, 2021 21:32
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I cant decide if "sorry you took my sexual harassment the wrong way" is better or worse than "I literally dont remember you"
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Mar 1, 2021 00:30
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I don't think he's actually all that popular, but idk I could be wrong I grew up in upstate NY, I know a lot of people from NYC, I know truckers and rockers and hackers and trumper crackers, artisans of alabaster... and they ALL break down in cackling laughter, when asked "hey, is Cuomo okay?" His 49% approval sort of mystifies me, when everyone I talk to, from Trump voting combat vets to leftist bartenders to my centrist parents think he's total poo poo. The pool of people I've asked about Cuomo is age bracket 35-80, dem rep and libertoon, and it's like a 100% hit rate for "Cuomo sucks"
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Mar 1, 2021 13:32
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Cabbages and Kings posted:I grew up in upstate NY, I know a lot of people from NYC, I know truckers and rockers and hackers and trumper crackers, artisans of alabaster... and they ALL break down in cackling laughter, when asked "hey, is Cuomo okay?" It could be the approval pollsters are being lied to. Or they're incompetent. Or they're lying. A number doesn't really matter without independent verification of the data and review of the methodology. They don't provide any of that do they?
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Mar 1, 2021 22:25
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I'm sure there are people who benefit a lot from cuomo being in power and inseparable from the status quo, but machine politics infamously produces just absolute mountains of enemies and it keeps people in power, not through popularity, but by ensuring that no one popular or good at organizing ends up in a position to meaningfully challenge the seat... Which I'd posit is how he manages to be personally so reviled but also firmly entrenched in power. That little period where he was doing the covid briefings was the one time he seemed to maybe meaningfully touch national relevance and it's notable just how quickly that ascent stopped and even reversed course. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 00:38
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The primaries pretty much confirmed cable news is mind control for boomers. You can't get through to them when they believe whatever the TV told them to last night. The kind of scary thing is that it's very easy to understand why this is. From their perspective, TV and maybe major print newspapers are literally the only sources for information. That's "where you get the news" - end of story. Being informed means frequently watching news TV and reading newspapers. I was talking with my mom about this a while back and she was like "well, where can I find this other information?" and I realized that it's actually very difficult to explain. Information just sort of "finds its way" to us when we discuss these things online (as things spread when posted on Twitter or whatever), but it's not the sort of thing your average older person is going to come across on their own (and to the extent that they do come across things, they don't really have a good filter for it and won't distinguish between "random Facebook memes" and actual news.
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Mar 2, 2021 01:48
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I have been sexually harassed at work. I know it happened, and I have considerably less evidence than Tara Reade has publicly produced. I have at least as much reason to believe her as I have reason to believe myself.John_A_Tallon posted:It could be the approval pollsters are being lied to. Polls get single digit response rates nowadays. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/02/27/response-rates-in-telephone-surveys-have-resumed-their-decline/ Not only do they have to guess how representative their sample really is, they're also vastly more susceptible to people bullshitting them. Polling is basically chicken entrails at this point.
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Mar 2, 2021 05:36
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https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1366767994525937666?s=20 The democrats destroyed MeToo in order to protect powerful men
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Mar 2, 2021 16:21
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you quoted an opinion piece that starts with "my guess". i don't see anyone leaping to the defense of cuomo. like, where are people defending cuomo, outside of twitter comments? democrats are now calling for cuomo to resign. i don't know if cuomo is done because ny machine politics, but i do think its a significantly different situation than biden.
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 16:46
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In Twitter jail for saying I'd slap anyone who touched my face with out my permission. Apparently old Italian men grabbing women's faces is totally normal and acceptable behavior. Good to know that's how this is going again. There's a wall of people saying cuomos behavior is totally fine and "we can't let him get Al Frankened" I got Twitter jailed for saying it Biden did his weird face touch thing to me that he constantly does I'd do the same thing like 2 years ago and here it is again. Apparently women defending themselves from unwanted touching just isn't allowed.
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Mar 2, 2021 16:47
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Cuomo defenders on yesterday's Brian Lehrer: "it's a Republican ploy to trick Democrats, it's Al Franken again" and "this kind of harassment is no big deal, these women need to get over themselves" (this from a woman). Just a few people on a radio show but I suspect these aren't uncommon opinions. Still, this was recorded before the third allegation, and the hands-on-face photo, and there are probably more to come.
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Mar 2, 2021 17:02
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silicone thrills posted:In Twitter jail for saying I'd slap anyone who touched my face with out my permission. Apparently old Italian men grabbing women's faces is totally normal and acceptable behavior. The litany of excuses never ends, nor does it change. Is there any point at which they'll be too ashamed to use the 'grandpa' poo poo?
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Mar 2, 2021 17:47
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Aruan posted:you quoted an opinion piece that starts with "my guess". i don't see anyone leaping to the defense of cuomo. like, where are people defending cuomo, outside of twitter comments? democrats are now calling for cuomo to resign. i don't know if cuomo is done because ny machine politics, but i do think its a significantly different situation than biden. Yes, in a thread talking about our society's take on sexual harassment, opinions in major media outlets like the NYT are relevant. This isn't USPol. What's your point in saying that Cuomo's situation is "significantly different" from Biden's? Are you defending Cuomo or Biden with that comment? Who's the "lesser evil" to women from your POV? This sort of pubic hairsplitting, so to speak, is one of the more toxic elements of discourse on the topic.
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Mar 2, 2021 18:41
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VideoTapir posted:I have been sexually harassed at work. I know it happened, and I have considerably less evidence than Tara Reade has publicly produced. I have at least as much reason to believe her as I have reason to believe myself. I'd prefer auguries to pollsters at this point. Augurs at least made an honest effort with their advice. I remember reading an account of an ancient taking the auspices and desperately doing his best to not spot any birds that would give him an answer he felt would lead the Roman senate to ruin. Insanite posted:The litany of excuses never ends, nor does it change. Is there any point at which they'll be too ashamed to use the 'grandpa' poo poo? The point where they, personally, are called out on it, where their children are bullied by other children for their parents' actions, where their mail is frequently lost, where their dentist tells them to find another provider because he feels morally conflicted whenever he has to work on their teeth, where their churches kick them out, where their HOA association endeavors to make their lives miserable, and where in general they are harassed and belittled by people physically in their lives. People like that don't have shame, per se, so much as a fear of consequences. Shaming from strangers isn't what it takes; it takes the people around them flipping the script and saying, "hey, you're being a piece of poo poo." John_A_Tallon fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Mar 2, 2021 |
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Mar 2, 2021 20:04
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