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How about this : Rome is Rome.
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Mar 2, 2021 22:46
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euphronius posted:How about this : Rome is Rome. mods, ban this filth
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Mar 2, 2021 22:48
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Actually, I am Rome
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Mar 2, 2021 23:01
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euphronius posted:How about this : Rome is Rome. I cant believe the new Rome is in Georgia
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Mar 2, 2021 23:03
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Rome is where the heart is.
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Mar 3, 2021 00:23
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It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. Augustus has no impact in popular culture apart from maybe being a conniving snake. Historians I've read said there's basically nothing to like about him compared to the original Caesar, particularly in his younger, ruthless days.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:34
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. What Is this a troll post? The title for emperor was Augustus. 100 years later Marcus Aurelius wrote about him. He gets mentioned from time to time in Byzantine sources. Adrian Goldsworthy ends his biography of him with a caution to remember he was a tyrant because most people would be too attached by the end of the work. 1/12 of the year is named after him He's in two shakspeare plays and is the Emperor in the Bible Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 3, 2021 |
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Mar 3, 2021 03:35
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. Sure does get hot in Sixtilis.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:41
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. i don't know what histories you read but frankly i'm baffled half of the time when you post about "historians i've read say x" this is one of those times, but even more so
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Mar 3, 2021 03:43
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He's played by Brian Blessed of all people. Brian Blessed!
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Mar 3, 2021 03:47
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. Augustus died in his bed old as hell and was universally mourned because he was a ruthless warlord who seized tyrannical power from the government and mulched rich people for their money. Sounds pretty likable to me
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Mar 3, 2021 03:47
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. shades of keldoclock
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Mar 3, 2021 03:47
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NikkolasKing, could you do me a favour and stick your head out the window and tell me how many zeppelins you can see? I'm testing a theory.
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Mar 3, 2021 03:56
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last year I was talking with a guy who sold roman coins, and asked him which ones were the most popular and he said that everyone wants the ones with Augustus on them, so they're a lot more expensive than any of the other emperors
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Mar 3, 2021 04:17
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Gaius Marius posted:What It's funny you mention Goldsworthy as it's him who supports my own layman conclusions: quote:Yet in spite of his remarkable story and profound infl uence on the history of an empire which has shaped the culture of the western world, Caesar Augustus has slipped from the wider consciousness. For most people he is a name mentioned in Christmas services or school Nativity plays and nothing more than that. Hardly anybody stops to think that the month of July is named after Julius Caesar, but I suspect even fewer are aware that August is named after Augustus. Julius Caesar is famous, and so are Antony and Cleopatra, Nero, Alexander the Great, Hannibal, perhaps Hadrian, and a few of the philosophers – but Augustus is not. One of the reasons is that Shakespeare never wrote a play about him, perhaps because there is little natural tragedy in a man who lives to a ripe old age and dies in his bed. He appears as Octavius in Julius Caesar and as Caesar in Antony and Cleopatra, but in neither play is his character particularly engaging, unlike Brutus, Antony – or even lesser players like Enobarbus. His fate is principally to serve as a foil to Antony, weak, even cowardly, but cold and manipulative where the latter is brave, intensely physical, simple and passionate. The contrast was already there in the ancient sources, and had its roots in the propaganda war waged at the time; it has only tended to become even more pronounced in modern treatments of the story – think for instance of the glacially cold performance with just hints of sadism given by Roddy McDowall in the famous 1963 epic movie Cleopatra. The intro to Goldsworthy's Augustus, First Emperor of Rome Augustus is absolutely nowhere near as famous a figure as Alexander or Julius Caesar in the popular imagination.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:19
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Shakespeare didn’t write a play about him
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Mar 3, 2021 04:20
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You didn't have to type that up man, my copy is like five feet away. Saying he's not as famous as Caeser or Alexander isn't saying much, those two are incredibly popular, they also share that they died in the middle of their project. That's why people remember them and write tragedies about them. how do you write a tragedy about a super competent dude who threw great parties, had a hot wife who let him gently caress around, funded some of the greatest poets of the latin language, had a super cool best friend, built a quarter of the stuff in rome, and then died of old age incredibly successful by every single measure. Caeser and Alexander will always have an allure, a vision of "What if they had lived?" Augustus doesn't have this, because we're living in that world.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:29
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Gaius Marius posted:You didn't have to type that up man, my copy is like five feet away. Saying he's not as famous as Caeser or Alexander isn't saying much, those two are incredibly popular, they also share that they died in the middle of their project. That's why people remember them and write tragedies about them. how do you write a tragedy about a super competent dude who threw great parties, had a hot wife who let him gently caress around, funded some of the greatest poets of the latin language, had a super cool best friend, built a quarter of the stuff in rome, and then died of old age incredibly successful by every single measure. I mainly posted it because I was basically accused of making up poo poo when I was just quoting Goldsworthy. Maybe I expressed it poorly but all I was trying to say was that Rome is such a towering legacy in all Western history and culture but its first Emperor seems so much smaller. That was my reading of that intro. I wasn't saying he had no impact, just that this impact is less recognized than it might ought to be. And it could very well be exactly for the reasons you said. It's why I like Julian, what the world might have been if he lived.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:37
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august: adjective au·gust | \ ȯ-ˈgəst , ˈȯ-(ˌ)gəst \ Definition of august (Entry 1 of 2) : marked by majestic dignity or grandeur her august lineage an august mansion we literally use his name, two millennia + later, to mean "imperially dignified" or bigwig. are there any other emperors, other than Caesar, who could claim something similar?
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Mar 3, 2021 04:37
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Literally have a month named after him !!
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Mar 3, 2021 04:38
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I think it's pretty fair to say Augustus doesn't exist in the popular consciousness at a level equal to his accomplishments. Ol' Jules is the big one, and Nero, Caligula, and Commodus are probably the most famous emperors by a decent margin. I'd say Mark Antony is more famous too, which I bet Augustus would just fuckin' love to hear.
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Mar 3, 2021 04:47
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NikkolasKing posted:I mainly posted it because I was basically accused of making up poo poo when I was just quoting Goldsworthy. Maybe I expressed it poorly but all I was trying to say was that Rome is such a towering legacy in all Western history and culture but its first Emperor seems so much smaller. That was my reading of that intro. Grand Fromage posted:I think it's pretty fair to say Augustus doesn't exist in the popular consciousness at a level equal to his accomplishments. Ol' Jules is the big one, and Nero, Caligula, and Commodus are probably the most famous emperors by a decent margin. I'd say Mark Antony is more famous too, which I bet Augustus would just fuckin' love to hear. Also I think Marcus Aurelius beats out his failson, and Justitinian is probably up there for the more history nerd but not actual historian types.
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Mar 3, 2021 05:02
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If Agrippa lost his battles and his line collapsed and Augustus been stabbed to death in the camp latrine as he was making GBS threads his guts maybe then he'd also occupt the current position of Mark Antony.
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Mar 3, 2021 05:10
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I'm actually a little bit curious about the alt history where like, Augustus just dies of some disease five minutes after becoming undisputed ruler of rome. Obviously there's another round of civil wars, but do they end in dissolution or another successful strongman?
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Mar 3, 2021 05:17
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cheetah7071 posted:I'm actually a little bit curious about the alt history where like, Augustus just dies of some disease five minutes after becoming undisputed ruler of rome. Obviously there's another round of civil wars, but do they end in dissolution or another successful strongman? All hail Agrippa 
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Mar 3, 2021 05:19
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Five minutes? Agrippa might be able to pull it off, he was competent enough to run the thing, but he didn't have the name, authority, or noble connections. His men we're probably loyal as hell though and I'm not sure if anything else matters in the moment. If he did I think we might see Egypt secede again if Caeserion managed to escape or perhaps even without, the revolt in Illyria might see them escape too, The caeser name meant a hell of a lot before he'd really consolidated things but I think the Imperial core would've been able to be secured by Agrippa. Tiberius would've had a much better time not being forced to be the bigman I think
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Mar 3, 2021 05:24
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lol at moving the goalposts from 'nobody likes augustus' to 'augustus didn't get a big shakespearean tragedy like julius'
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Mar 3, 2021 05:27
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Things probably wouldn't have gone well. Augustus and Agrippa were a dream team and exactly what the empire needed after a century of chaos, and the simple fact of Augustus ruling for so long was enormous for government stability. It's hard to overstate Augustus' importance; a Roman Empire would have continued to exist, but it would have looked different. And I don't think it would have been nearly as stable. Having a ruler who both is in charge for a very long time and competent is rare. That guy also having a completely loyal, even more competent second in command is even rarer.
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Mar 3, 2021 05:33
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Tunicate posted:lol at moving the goalposts from 'nobody likes augustus' to 'augustus didn't get a big shakespearean tragedy like julius' look, no one knows about this guy who has an adjective and a month of the year named after him and was one of the main characters in a super popular HBO show
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Mar 3, 2021 05:56
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Tunicate posted:lol at moving the goalposts from 'nobody likes augustus' to 'augustus didn't get a big shakespearean tragedy like julius' WoodrowSkillson posted:look, no one knows about this guy who has an adjective and a month of the year named after him and was one of the main characters in a super popular HBO show Let's not be too harsh, I think they just read too much into the introduction of a book, they took the time to type out a couple pages of it so they weren't trolling.
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Mar 3, 2021 06:08
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Gaius Marius posted:Let's not be too harsh, I think they just read too much into the introduction of a book, they took the time to type out a couple pages of it so they weren't trolling. there's a break at a ligature, that's a copypaste
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Mar 3, 2021 06:12
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Gaius Marius posted:Let's not be too harsh, I think they just read too much into the introduction of a book, they took the time to type out a couple pages of it so they weren't trolling. Thank you. I was just listening to the book last night in a random mood and everything in the intro made me go "...he's right. Augustus is a remarkably minor figure in the public consciousness compared to Rome itself." And even if he's right, you and others discussed the reasons for this. I'm not trying to say gently caress Augustus that worthless, unimportant piece of poo poo. It was just a thought. And maybe he overstates the case. I have read zero other biographies of Augustus. Although I really enjoyed this paper I red a few months ago on the concept of peace and how it traces itself back to Augustus: quote:Canonical texts in international relations define peace as the absence of violence (Aron 1973, 21; Bull 2012, 18; Clausewitz 1976, 75; Waltz 1959, 1; 1979, 343). However, a glance at the philology of the word “peace” reveals a more complex relationship with violence. The Latin words for peace (pax, pacis, paco) trace their roots to the verb for a pact (pacisci), “which ended a war and led to submission, friendship, or alliance.” As Rome transitioned from republic to empire, pax changed its meaning from a pact among equals to submission to Rome, and “pacare began to refer to conquest” (Weinstock 1960, 45).1
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Mar 3, 2021 06:17
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NikkolasKing posted:Thank you. I was just listening to the book last night in a random mood and everything in the intro made me go "...he's right. Augustus is a remarkably minor figure in the public consciousness compared to Rome itself." I don't think that point is unreasonable, its just that your initial post was worded in a way that made your argument sound much more radical then you intended. Augustus certainly is remembered much less vividly in the public consciousness then other ancient figures, which is an interesting topic.
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Mar 3, 2021 07:50
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I was listening to Tides of History and the host said that in premodern times cities had a negative population growth or in other words people would come in from the countryside to work and die in great numbers. The anthropologist/archaeologists he was interviewing didn't contradict that. Does anyone know where this information might have come from?
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Mar 3, 2021 09:10
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NikkolasKing posted:It's kinda funny, the Roman Empire is such an iconic symbol for all subsequent Western history.... But nobody likes its first Emperor. Mark Zuckerberg literally and deliberately stole his haircut https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-zuckerberg-haircut-explained-augustus-caesar-2019-10 Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Mar 3, 2021 |
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Mar 3, 2021 09:43
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If you just know Rome from pop culture, you probably don't see much Augustus. If you study even a bit of Roman history, or more historical-based drama than just movies and Asterix, you can't escape Augustus.
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Mar 3, 2021 10:21
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CoolCab posted:august: adjective augustus, -a, -um was a word long before it was given as a title of honor to the man
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Mar 3, 2021 12:24
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"cowardly cold and manipulative" are the best characters. Augustus rules.
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Mar 3, 2021 14:12
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Mark Zuckerberg literally and deliberately stole his haircut How does zucc continue to find new ways to piss me off? loving rear end in a top hat
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Mar 3, 2021 14:23
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Grevling posted:I was listening to Tides of History and the host said that in premodern times cities had a negative population growth or in other words people would come in from the countryside to work and die in great numbers. The anthropologist/archaeologists he was interviewing didn't contradict that. Does anyone know where this information might have come from? Look up the term “urban penalty.” It seems reasonably well accepted. These links are covering the 19th century but refer to the concept as existing much earlier. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ehr.12964 https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...8D2397FD32E9066
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Mar 3, 2021 14:28
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