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The World Inferno posted:This would have been a phenomenal way to end the show. A modern day take off of the "live" musical, with her chaos magic causing everyone to break out into song. Yeah, why not? It's not like every other family-friendly show is avoiding musical episodes.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:21
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Anyway, that was extremely unsatisfying. Pietro turning out to be a gag character felt like a real gutpunch move. That character you really liked and seemed to be evidence of the universes merging? Haha nope! Vision just flies off somewhere, escaping the series, and the kids didn’t make it out of there. Maybe we’ll see them again, maybe not. Marvel has plausible deniability either way. One thing I’m glad at is that Agatha is actually still alive. Ugh. Very shaky on the dismount. I could honestly see them doing a WandaVision series 2 to pick up all the loose ends.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:23
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Ignis posted:Ralph Boner has to be the witsec guy, right? Like come on I hope so. Maybe they were protecting this guy who showed up from another universe. We never saw Agatha give anybody else explicit powers, did we?
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Mar 5, 2021 11:25
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I really wanted Magnesh (read: Magneto).
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Mar 5, 2021 11:25
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MoaM posted:Yeah, why not? It's not like every other family-friendly show is avoiding musical episodes. I'd be down for WandaVision season two in a few years after some of the fallout of this has shaken out, where Wanda and Vision are trying to make a life for themselves, possibly with their kids and Mephisto or someone keeps messing with them and where every episode has him trapping them in a new television genre, with one of them being a musical. Comedy, action, noir, mystery box, procedural etc. Or a new format, I guess. One episode live action, another animated, puppets, stop-motion etc. That's a lot more limited though.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:27
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STAC Goat posted:I dunno about the time thing. Like that's the same amount of stuff in the same amount of time you'd pack into a film ending and this episode flowed pretty directly out of the last couple of episodes. I feel like we've been firmly in "Act 3" every since Wanda was confronted by Vision/Pietro and clearly started to feel the guilt of what she's done. Maybe I’m too attached to a version of how I saw things playing out in my head, but I think a lot of my issues are best exemplified by them not spending more time on the fake family reveal. The entire impetus for the events of the show is that Wanda got so consumed by grief that she took over a town and manifested herself a magical family. How is “Oh btw, that family is 100% fake” not a much bigger payoff moment? Losing Vision drove Wanda to do insanely powerful and dangerous things, but they packed the decision to sacrifice her family into like, an unspoken choice she made during a crummy CGI fight and then three minutes of competently acted, generically written Sad Goodbyes.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:30
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Ignis posted:Ralph Boner has to be the witsec guy, right? Like come on I now believe this whole heartedly and that he picked his own name and Woo dies a little inside every time he has to say it.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:31
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That was a neat/unique show that really just kinda gave up being interesting for some reason
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Mar 5, 2021 11:33
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Its Rinaldo posted:I now believe this whole heartedly and that he picked his own name and Woo dies a little inside every time he has to say it. Woo seems like a guy who'd get a little laugh every time he had to say that, rather than a groan.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:33
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for a split second i thought that they were going to reveal that Ralph was Whizzer or some other d-list speedster.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:34
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Its Rinaldo posted:I now believe this whole heartedly and that he picked his own name and Woo dies a little inside every time he has to say it. I can't imagine it being any other way tbh. If that were your last name for the past twenty or so years, you would probably be sick and tired of hearing jokes about it. 
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Mar 5, 2021 11:37
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Rocco posted:That was a neat/unique show that really just kinda gave up being interesting for some reason It did feel a little off-putting that they ditched the show's premise halfway through and never even gave it as much as a wink for the finales. Whether that's a Musical episode, oops all the sitcoms, or anything would have been nice to see that pay off. I do wonder if their budget pooped out in the end, as the witches fighting while the setting keeps changing feels so obvious and better than them just floating around each other that much have been on the table at one point? The real disappoint tho is that this show had way too little Fred Melamed.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:39
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I feel like from the very beginning we all knew the sitcom gimmick would end for the finale. I understand some people liked that more than MCU stuff but... it was always a short term symptom of Wanda's unwellness. I don't know how you fit that into the finale in a way that makes sense. xbilkis posted:Maybe I’m too attached to a version of how I saw things playing out in my head, but I think a lot of my issues are best exemplified by them not spending more time on the fake family reveal. The entire impetus for the events of the show is that Wanda got so consumed by grief that she took over a town and manifested herself a magical family. How is “Oh btw, that family is 100% fake” not a much bigger payoff moment? Losing Vision drove Wanda to do insanely powerful and dangerous things, but they packed the decision to sacrifice her family into like, an unspoken choice she made during a crummy CGI fight and then three minutes of competently acted, generically written Sad Goodbyes. I think if there's something missing from this its that "thank you for choosing me as your mom" line. For me I thought Wanda knew what her kids were as soon as she became aware of what she was doing. How could she not? She was deluding herself about Vision and the townspeople but she'd have to be pretty far gone to not recognize that he kids came out of thin air. So I'm not sure I ever expected a much bigger reveal moment. I think Wanda knew her kids were constructs of this and loved them regardless. The big emotional reveal to me was her first attempt to remove the Hex when it started tearing Vision and her kids apart. Up until that point she seemed to think she could hold onto them separate of all this. So I'm ok with her coming to terms with it on her own. I dunno. To me this was Wanda's story. It was her grief and pain to work through. And grief isn't something you talk out. You just struggle with it until you can take a step forward. So I liked that she didn't have some heart to heart with Vision about it. Why would she? He's just part of that. But that line also makes me second guess all that and wonder if I was wrong and if Wanda wasn't surprised to learn her kids were constructs of her magic because she's known all along that they're something else entirely? But that feels like the big tease the show left with. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 11:43
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lmao Boner That was a perfectly serviceable Marvel style finale to the show, if a little rushed. I'll take Kathryn Hahn vs Elizabeth Olsen any day, that poo poo ruled. I also loved Vision and White Vision just shooting the breeze about the Ship of Theseus. a Very Vision Thing to do.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:45
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Just in case anyone didn’t recognize what Wanda was doing in the stinger: She’s been studying.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:48
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How does a straight to streaming TV show have to rush so much? Wanda is the most unrelatable monster of a protagonist since Jax from Sons of Anarchy, Barry from Barry, and Walter from Breaking Bad. Why is cheering for sociopathic selfish psychos the new norm?
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Mar 5, 2021 11:49
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Cage Kicker posted:That's Ralph Boner normal name, definitely never referenced before but seriously, I just rewatched the scene early on at his shithole apartment. If he's not a metahuman/mutant/something, then how does he have powers? The show has established that Wanda has near complete control over the Westview inhabitants outside of ... what, intruders, when she VERY briefly slips or outside forces? Why would Wanda - in a show that has grief, trauma and dealing with that at its core - recreate Pietro, but different, and operating in her worst interests? This is why these scenes feel off, to me. Pietro's sudden shift from dunking on Monica to not and just being a dipshit once she accuses him feels EXTREMELY weird. If he's just a random idiot, why didn't Agatha give more people insanely powerful skillsets to force Wanda into this? She literally says that the Scarlet Witch is forged; the implied statement there is that she knows at least some of how it happens, because she's trying to make it happen. the MCU is too very specifically Whedon jokey even still to not have another gag about him in the longish denouement; and more specifically for a show about a character's internal tragedies made whole, not to have a scene where wanda talks to him knowing the "truth" as a way of handling her poo poo. let's not get into the weird duality motif of agatha x wanda + vision x white vision as a metaphor for the existence of the multiverse (this is me being very dumb about this but I Have Thoughts) in conclusion westview is a land of contrasts but it's loving quicksilver, and he's a mutant, and I will go to my grave believing this intensely minor thing I appreciated about the series: Wanda slipping back into accent more the more emotional she got. Felt pretty real in the narrative of "she tried to shed it to blend in" interview context I think the Russos? gave for her lack of one in IW or whatever, as I fuckin' know how that level of poo poo can gently caress with your ingrained patterns. I didn't know the bit about her kids in the comics being part of mephisto's soul or something, whatever someone said recently here. that makes the audio on the last scene even more hosed, and makes a LOT of sense considering strange 2 was/is gonna be a horror-ish thing
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Mar 5, 2021 11:51
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In the last stinger they busted out a subtle riff on Michael Giacchino's Doctor Strange theme, which I appreciate because its the best MCU Theme
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Mar 5, 2021 11:51
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Blaise330 posted:How does a straight to streaming TV show have to rush so much? Did you see "You"? That show and the protagonist rule.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:52
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marhom posted:normal name, definitely never referenced before They could've spared some exposition on that, but I think they were trying to imply it was the necklace giving him powers vvvv maybe she just wanted some tea while working and didn't want to waste any time Ignis fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 11:55
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Just in case anyone didn’t recognize what Wanda was doing in the stinger: But with Wanda, she seems to just be in two places at once. None of the "Wandas" we see were sleeping or meditating, one was brewing a drink and the other was doing magic in another room.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:55
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Blaise330 posted:Wanda is the most unrelatable monster of a protagonist since Jax from Sons of Anarchy, Barry from Barry, and Walter from Breaking Bad. Why is cheering for sociopathic selfish psychos the new norm? I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that she's a sociopath when as soon as she was confronted with her actions she tried to undo them, and only stopped because doing so was killing her family. Which she still undid only a short while later, but wanted time to say goodbye first. That is not remotely sociopathic. Then again, I'm not sure how "wanted to bring her love back after losing them" and dealing with grief is unrelatable either. The things she could do in her grief, sure, but grief and wanting to relive the past or have a perfect world are not unrelatable at all.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:56
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BrianWilly posted:Well that's not quite exactly what we're seeing. Strange's physical body is asleep, allowing his astral spirit to roam around and do things, like study. Well, Agatha did say that Wanda is more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme and Strange has certainly created illusory clones of himself before. This isn't that either, but I wouldn't be surprised if he could create a physically distinct clone for a short time, given all the other poo poo he has done.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:58
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tsob posted:I don't know how you can come to the conclusion that she's a sociopath when as soon as she was confronted with her actions she tried to undo them, and only stopped because doing so was killing her family. Which she still undid only a short while later, but wanted time to say goodbye first. That is not remotely sociopathic. Then again, I'm not sure how "wanted to bring her love back after losing them" and dealing with grief is unrelatable either. The things she could do in her grief, sure, but grief and wanting to relive the past or have a perfect world are not unrelatable at all. its. three. thousand. loving. people. What you're describing is like the 6th chance she's had to dispel the illusion. A non-sociopath wouldn't keep doing that to ONE person. Blaise330 fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Mar 5, 2021 |
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Mar 5, 2021 11:58
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Just in case anyone didn’t recognize what Wanda was doing in the stinger: yea! My first read was astral projection or w/e
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Mar 5, 2021 11:59
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:In the last stinger they busted out a subtle riff on Michael Giacchino's Doctor Strange theme, which I appreciate because its the best MCU Theme If you want a big mindfuck, Wandavision cost more to make ($200m) than Dr Strange ($165m). And they couldn't even get Bendy to make an appearance
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Mar 5, 2021 12:02
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BrianWilly posted:Well that's not quite exactly what we're seeing. Strange's physical body is asleep, allowing his astral spirit to roam around and do things, like study. Astral Wanda studying while Physical Wanda makes tea isn’t really all that different from Astral Strange reading while Physical Strange sleeps. It’s just the ability to do two separate things at once in different places. There aren’t multiple Wandas, she’s just better at it than Strange.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:03
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Blaise330 posted:its. three. thousand. loving. people. What you're describing is like the 6th chance she's had to dispel the illusion Willful delusion is not particularly sympathetic, but that's mental disorder for you. When confronted with the irrefutable truth, she did relent pretty quickly.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:03
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Breaking Bad would have been a very different show if Walt had suddenly realized what he was doing was terrible and hurting people and chose to stop at great personal loss.tsob posted:Well, Agatha did say that Wanda is more powerful than the Sorcerer Supreme and Strange has certainly created illusory clones of himself before. This isn't that either, but I wouldn't be surprised if he could create a physically distinct clone for a short time, given all the other poo poo he has done. Yeah, it seems plausible that the implication is Wanda astral projecting as we've seen with Strange or Hulk in Endgame but that she's so powerful she can do it while conscious. I dunno. It seems like a purposely dangling thread for Strange 2.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:05
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Blaise330 posted:its. three. thousand. loving. people. What you're describing is like the 6th chance she's had to dispel the illusion. A non-sociopath wouldn't keep doing that to ONE person. A sociopath would do it to any number of people and never care, because not caring is basically the thing that makes them a sociopath. A non-sociopath would stop when confronted with the weight of their actions, even if doing so is difficult. The fact she intellectually knew it is not the same as seeing the consequence of it for real. The scene where she's confronted with it shows that she tried to justify it in her own mind, as improving their lives or helping them but that when they rejected that she basically immediately crumbled. Which she didn't need 3,000 people to confront her to feel. Her actions are still bad, but she stopped when shown how bad it was.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:07
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So Wanda doesn’t know that White Vision has his memories back, because of the way he just sped off? I definitely feel like we’re going to get a follow up series. There’s lots of set-up stuff the movies aren’t going to touch because it’s too small scale.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:09
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I have to think Ralph was the witsec guy who went missing because 1: Why would he have a picture of himself with a name on it if it weren't some document supplied by the program and 2: Woo says in ep 4 that he called people who were supposed to know Ralph and none of them knew who he was talking about. Of course nobody would know him if he's from another dimension. Also it really is so stupid to do this casting and point it out within the show purely as a nod and a wink to viewers. That doesn't track for me at all.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:14
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I do think it’s kinda lame that the show set Monica up to do something with her powers in the finale, but all it amounted to was taking a couple bullets for kids that weren’t real and could have dealt with them themselves regardless, and then she apparently just stood there and watched the floating witch battle for ten minutes. I really hope her CM2 role is actually substantial and she doesn’t end up as some AoS-esque Cheap Budget Hero.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:24
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tsob posted:A sociopath would do it to any number of people and never care, because not caring is basically the thing that makes them a sociopath. A non-sociopath would stop when confronted with the weight of their actions, even if doing so is difficult. The fact she intellectually knew it is not the same as seeing the consequence of it for real. The scene where she's confronted with it shows that she tried to justify it in her own mind, as improving their lives or helping them but that when they rejected that she basically immediately crumbled. Which she didn't need 3,000 people to confront her to feel. Her actions are still bad, but she stopped when shown how bad it was. I mean Vision asked her about why there aren't any kids her reaction wasn't "oh yeah I should let them go" but "I should use them as props for my halloween episode" and then stashes them away again when she's done which is deeply hosed up.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:25
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My main gripe with the finale Agatha’s makeup. Actually, Wanda should have at least apologised to the town in SOME capacity instead or wearing a hoodie and taking off like a sullen teen. Still, really enjoyed it overall. Kathryn Hahn really was the MVP
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Mar 5, 2021 12:27
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Its Rinaldo posted:I mean Vision asked her about why there aren't any kids her reaction wasn't "oh yeah I should let them go" but "I should use them as props for my halloween episode" and then stashes them away again when she's done which is deeply hosed up. Oh it's definitely hosed up, and pretty much every major character in the show and quite a few minor characters, call Wanda out on that. The show never really had her personally admit that or confront it in a cathartic manner, and that's kind of a disappointment but the show was still aware of it and Wanda still stopped once she saw it for what it was.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:28
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Andrew_1985 posted:My main gripe with the finale Agatha’s makeup. they dont UNDERSTAND what she SACRIFICED When you think about it, she's the real victim
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Mar 5, 2021 12:35
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tsob posted:Oh it's definitely hosed up, and pretty much every major character in the show and quite a few minor characters, call Wanda out on that. The show never really had her personally admit that or confront it in a cathartic manner, and that's kind of a disappointment but the show was still aware of it and Wanda still stopped once she saw it for what it was. But I'm also not entirely sure what apologizing to a few dozen people who have all been in her head this whole time would accomplish. That seems like it would be more about Wanda trying to make herself feel better than them. At that moment Wanda seems to recognize that to this town she's the monster who held them prisoner for weeks. They don't want to forgive her or hear her explain herself or apologize, they want her to be gone.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:46
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You drat right Wanda will destroy the world, she's the living embodiment of "what about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee", people had to threaten suicide before the she went "okay FINE =/, SHEESH"
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Mar 5, 2021 12:59
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This started out well and ended up being such MCU nonsense.
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Mar 5, 2021 12:59
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