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Hah, did they seriously forget to give Firm the Corpse Cleanup limit? Though usually for me it's about eating the stagger damage, not the HP, since health hauler exists anyway.
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Feb 20, 2021 23:59
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Reiterpallasch posted:Hah, did they seriously forget to give Firm the Corpse Cleanup limit? Though usually for me it's about eating the stagger damage, not the HP, since health hauler exists anyway.
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Feb 21, 2021 00:25
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MotU posted:Finished the 1st Tier of SotC, any recommendations on which stage to start on next? I do have some Abnos to make do to catch up, too Do Red Mist first and everything else is easier! Just focus on having bean throw fairies. Reiterpallasch posted:Hah, did they seriously forget to give Firm the Corpse Cleanup limit? Though usually for me it's about eating the stagger damage, not the HP, since health hauler exists anyway. I mean, you do get twice as many copies of Mind Hauler.
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Feb 21, 2021 01:00
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So what exactly is Enkephalin? Playing LC again, Angela seems to be referring to it as the energy that's being harvested, but I remember Roland and Hod referring to it like it was a drug. Is it both?
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Feb 25, 2021 07:52
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Yes. More specifically it's the energy that's processed into drugs and batteries.
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Feb 25, 2021 07:55
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As a wonder material extracted from the collective unconsciousness of humanity it's probably the stuff Abnormalities are made out of, so it's whatever the gently caress you want it to be.
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Feb 25, 2021 09:58
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New update out. "Added 1 new episode" is probably the single most underwhelming way they could have sold it in the patchnotes, lmao. Reverb Ensemble reception, one member per floor, already nerfed.
Reiterpallasch fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Feb 26, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 21:44
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The game was a lot closer to the end than I thought!!!
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Feb 26, 2021 21:54
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Reiterpallasch posted:already nerfed. The COWARDS
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Feb 26, 2021 21:54
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Reiterpallasch posted:New update out. "Added 1 new episode" is probably the single most underwhelming way they could have sold it in the patchnotes, lmao. Reverb Ensemble reception, one member per floor, already nerfed.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:03
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Cowards nothing, I did NOT want to sit down and build 45 different decks. 
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Feb 26, 2021 22:04
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I think I'm going to try and do it as released, but cheating by using Purple Tear on every floor, because I mean, why wouldn't a librarian using that page be able to show up to every fight. We have over a month to go until the next main story episode comes out, anyway, it seems.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:08
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TeeQueue posted:Cowards nothing, I did NOT want to sit down and build 45 different decks. The hard part wouldn't have been the 45 different decks tbh (i bet like 20 of them could be will of the prescript, multislash, frontal assault, extract fuel, 5x whatever generically good cards you want to stuff in there, and also I'm pretty sure solo strategies are viable on at least 2 of the floors), it's that there would only have been 4/8 copies of the Haulers to go around.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:11
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I'm surprised that's happening before a fight with the Head or something.Reiterpallasch posted:The hard part wouldn't have been the 45 different decks tbh (i bet like 20 of them could be will of the prescript, multislash, frontal assault, extract fuel, 5x whatever generically good cards you want to stuff in there, and also I'm pretty sure solo strategies are viable on at least 2 of the floors), it's that there would only have been 4/8 copies of the Haulers to go around. Hanging around in the PM discord I have around 30 decks, you do have Keeping In Stride too after all.
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Feb 26, 2021 22:22
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Makes the spooky warning message kind of silly when you can just slam the same 4 or 5 gold pages into every fight though
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Feb 26, 2021 22:23
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That's coward talk.  Hod's conversation is really weird, Hod why are you even having this conversation
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Feb 26, 2021 22:50
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Grinding enough pages for 45 decks strikes me as a particularly unfun experience though, especially with how book burning works now. Even if key pages were locked to the floor that used them, PM should have let players empty the decks of every librarian regardless. SITB fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Feb 27, 2021 |
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Feb 26, 2021 23:17
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Don't sniff children, oswald.
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Feb 26, 2021 23:54
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 just got this fantastic sticker in the mail today (from here)
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Feb 28, 2021 02:14
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Ah, Christ, in the new reception the Pluto contract that forces you to have 0 light at end of turn seems to penalize you for gaining an extra pip of light on increasing emotion level.
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Mar 1, 2021 21:07
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I think Roland's betrayal will be an early bad end like endings A/B/C in Lobotomy Corp. The final floor realizations are technically optional the same way that the core suppressions are technically optional. I don't think a Roland that has gone through all the character development in the final floor realizations really would betray Angela. So I think he will only do it if one of the final floor realizations is unfinished.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:27
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golden bubble posted:I think Roland's betrayal will be an early bad end like endings A/B/C in Lobotomy Corp. The final floor realizations are technically optional the same way that the core suppressions are technically optional. I don't think a Roland that has gone through all the character development in the final floor realizations really would betray Angela. So I think he will only do it if one of the final floor realizations is unfinished. Competing the fights we just got without complete floors and EGO pages doesn't really seem like an easy way out deserving of a bad ending to me.
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Mar 3, 2021 21:46
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Why am I subjecting myself to this game? Do I hate myself?
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Mar 3, 2021 22:07
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MinutePirateBug posted:Why am I subjecting myself to this game? Do I hate myself? Because it's good. Granted, it's especially good if you also hate yourself, but I digress 
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Mar 4, 2021 01:41
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Since I can post this here under spoilers rather than in the LP, re: the setting being anarcho-capitalist (minor Library spoilers): The City is dominated by 26 mega-corps. The Head is the leader of A Corp, the biggest and strongest of them, with the added bonus of B and C Corps being functionally subsidiaries of A Corp. Each Wing is more or less self-sufficient and self-governing, barring a need to access a hyper-specialization that other Wings provide more easily that the Wing can provide on its own. Like, A Corp isn't a government, none of the wings are governments outside of their own internal structures. A Corp just happens to be the biggest and gets to impose a small set of universal rules, but each Wing has its own rules and they even go to war with one another. Nothing is centralized, as far as I can tell, each Wing sets its own laws, polices its own workers/citizens, funds a variety of military apparatuses with overlap into policing/army functions, etc... Since, again, every Wing is a mega-corp, I'd say this very cleanly fits the bill of anarcho-capitalism. I have no idea where the "monopoly on violence" thing came from, as an extrapolation from the rule on firearms? The Wings have militaries, if not directly than through proxy organizations that are a hybrid private-policy/military orgs. As previously stated, there's like an ongoing war between two of the Wings we never even see directly, beyond the stuff we DO see. Like, imagine if America didn't have a government and instead the top 26 corporations carved up the territory of the country. The biggest, lets call it A(mazon) Corp, got to flex its position to set a very small set of rules, but otherwise did not really interfere with the others. They all provided the bare minimum needed to keep their workforces alive, with better perks and services available to the middle/upper tier workers. Some services were provided by a given corporation to all the others, simply because they did it best (A Corp got to deliver everyone's useless plastic tat purchased online, in this example). So lets say you work for M(c Donalds) Corp. You wake up in your McBed to the sound of the McRadio playing the latest corporate jingle as the McNews starts up. You hear productivity is up 11% in the hamburger-grilling divisions, and optional overtime is being called for in the drive-in division. You're happy to have landed a spot in the exclusive McTower protected by the local McGuard private security detail you pay a small premium for. It's much safer than living on the McOutskirts, where hungry gangs of (literally) greased up punks roam and the occasional incursion from gangs hailing from the neighboring Microsoft District ignite bloody street-wars over second-hand electronics and day-old fast-food leftovers. Better hurry to your post for the day's work, if you're late more than a couple of times you could be demoted and lose your home, and have to return to the McOutskirts. Congratulations, you're living in a anarcho-capitalist dystopia functionally identical to the one Project Moon created. The only thing missing is magic and getting the USA to care more about melee weapons than guns. KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 03:02
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It's not just a matter of biggest fish though? A Corp is the only Wing which asserts the ability to regulate the internal affairs of the other Wings, and what it does is set the rules of the game. The other Wings are only allowed to interact with each other within the bounds the Head has set, i.e the whole Cane Office deal on how Singularity patent wars occur under the Head's auspices. It's fair to say that the Head isn't, like, a good or competent state, but it's hard to look at it and decide that it isn't a state at all. Certainly the Holy Roman Empire was a state, despite the fact that its constituent parts could and did go to war with each other all the goddamn time.
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Mar 6, 2021 03:13
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im also not super comfortable with reading the project moon cinematic universe as a grand critique of anarcho-capitalism, considering that the only people who are actually trying to bring the system crashing down are awful, awful people
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Mar 6, 2021 03:14
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I'm sure a whole lot of people who aren't history's greatest monsters would love to overturn the whole thing but are a little too busy just trying to stay alive
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Mar 6, 2021 03:20
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Reiterpallasch posted:It's not just a matter of biggest fish though? A Corp is the only Wing which asserts the ability to regulate the internal affairs of the other Wings, and what it does is set the rules of the game. The other Wings are only allowed to interact with each other within the bounds the Head has set, i.e the whole Cane Office deal on how Singularity patent wars occur under the Head's auspices. It's fair to say that the Head isn't, like, a good or competent state, but it's hard to look at it and decide that it isn't a state at all. Certainly the Holy Roman Empire was a state, despite the fact that its constituent parts could and did go to war with each other all the goddamn time. A Corp set like, half a dozen rules (a dozen tops?), but otherwise each corp is self-governing. A Corp / The Head isn't governing the other corps, it just told them where a few lines were that would invite retaliation, and even then the Guns rule is more of a vague guide-line than anything else (and the clones one has a loop-hole large enough to drive R Corp through it). The only rule we've seen A Corp take VERY seriously is the AI one. That's it. Heck the patent stuff just seems like the bare minimum to prevent all-out warfare, and even then the events of LoR show that the Wing are HUNGRY to bypass this restriction and get at each other's Singularities. A Corp is currently tolerating a straight up war between two of the Wings that LoR doesn't even zoom in on, and it'd be an easy bet to guess what THAT'S about, so even the patent stuff is a bit unevenly enforced. Basically just don't piss off A Corp, and govern yourselves. It's super easy to see this as a grouping of corporations with private military/security where the biggest one gets to throw its weight around but otherwise isn't telling or governing any of the others. Outside of, maybe, B and C corp. Like, does anarcho-capitalism stop if one corp gets a little bigger than the rest and has a shinier private military and tells the rest they have to do a small dozen or so things to stay alive but otherwise business as usual? Reiterpallasch posted:im also not super comfortable with reading the project moon cinematic universe as a grand critique of anarcho-capitalism, considering that the only people who are actually trying to bring the system crashing down are awful, awful people I used to post about how I thought it was critique, but honestly I think they just ended up with an anarcho-capitalist dystopia because that's what they thought was cool (even without thinking in ideological terms) and it just happens to be that the people we see most gung-ho about tearing it down are really, really lovely. Oops. I think it's unintentional, at any rate. Like looking at Blade Runner and just thinking the setting is neat rather than sitting down for a deep dissection of what it's like to live there.
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Mar 6, 2021 03:38
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Reiterpallasch posted:It's not just a matter of biggest fish though? A Corp is the only Wing which asserts the ability to regulate the internal affairs of the other Wings, and what it does is set the rules of the game. The other Wings are only allowed to interact with each other within the bounds the Head has set, i.e the whole Cane Office deal on how Singularity patent wars occur under the Head's auspices. It's fair to say that the Head isn't, like, a good or competent state, but it's hard to look at it and decide that it isn't a state at all. Certainly the Holy Roman Empire was a state, despite the fact that its constituent parts could and did go to war with each other all the goddamn time. Basically this. In one of the post-abno battle scenes, Binah asks Roland if he is wondering why there is such an utter lack of actual sensible governance under their otherwise cruel reign. The Head has a bunch of rules, and oversees them absolutely, and nobody is allowed to go against what they say on threat of destruction or exile into the Outskirts. Sure, the Wings and Syndicates war with each other, but this is only because the Head makes allowance for it. The rules are strange from our point of view, extremely lax on some parts but weirdly specific on others, but they are still rules written and enforced by an autocratic authority which no other power has the means to defy (which I feel is what is meant by the Head having a 'monopoly on violence'). It's an alien sort of government, and a very hand-off one, but it is definitely there, enforcing the order everybody else has to play by. In a slightly more conceptual sense, the very fact that A Corp designates and then deals with 'Impurities' of the City makes them the government, since they alone get to decide what is and is not acceptable for the Status Quo. Theantero fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 03:48
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We've not seen any evidence of services and aspects of governance being centralized, quite the opposite, everything we've seen points to Wings self-governing, self-policing, etc... The most common cross-Wing interactions we've seen don't come from A Corp, but from other corps providing a hyper-specialized service by way of their Singularities. Like, what aspect of governance is A Corp providing in the context of the setting? Like, everything you're saying reads to me as anarcho-capitalist. Again, at what point in a mega-corp-centered anarcho-capitalist dystopia do you cross over into something else entirely just because the biggest corp gets to fiddle around a bit in the other's business? Anarcho-capitalism is functionally gang-rule, does it stop being anarcho-capitalism just because the biggest gang has influence over the others? Also monopoly on violence is a somewhat specific term and if you're using it here, well, it doesn't track. This is specifically one of the reasons why I'm so confident in reading the setting as ancap, because outside the small handful of rules considered universal each Wing (and perhaps most graphically in LoR, each Finger) sets its own set of laws which it then enforces with it's own private security/military, and enforcement of the Wing-specific laws is far more of a daily affiair for the security forces than A Corp's guidelines. To go back to my IRL example, if A(mazon) Corp tells every other USA Mega to prevent proliferation of online sales platforms in their territories on pain of war they can't win, but otherwise M(c Donalds) Corp is free to set its own laws and enforce those laws with its own private forces as it sees fit not only doesn't A Corp have a monopoly on violence but it also doesn't constitute anything approaching a government to the other megas. ... e.: Though, I'll cop to one thing, I can picture an-capism being compatible with the idea of a government if the government happens to also be a corporation, which is I guess another way you can read the setting as presented? Like, even if A Corp is what passes for a government, it still is, you know, one of the corporations? Like, what would you describe it as if a setting is sold to you as "bunch of mega-corps, one is bigger than the rest, kinda' fills a ruling role over the rest but generally just leaves them be"? I think "an-cap" still springs to mind. KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 04:07
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quote:Like, what would you describe it as if a setting is sold to you as "bunch of mega-corps, one is bigger than the rest, kinda' fills a ruling role over the rest but generally just leaves them be"? I think "an-cap" still springs to mind. Isn’t that basically a description of cyberpunk? TeeQueue fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 04:16
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TeeQueue posted:Isn’t that basically a description of cyberpunk? I mean... It can be? Cyberpunk is more of an aesthetic than a concrete rules-laid-out dystopia, pretty sure there's plenty of Cyberpunk settings where Big Corps are just as prominent as Big Government. e.: Replied before you quoted. Good question, and I could see how the word would spring to mind. Again, some settings that fall under the description of cyberpunk are functionally an-cap dystopias, others less so. The role of the corp is front and center either way. e2.: Take the setting to Cyberpunk 2077. The US Government is functionally a thin legitimizing shroud for corpro interests and the acting president in 2077 used to be the CEO of one of them. It's still a functioning government with all three branches more or less intact, but for all intents and purposes the setting is an an-cap dystopia. The government chugs along but corpro interests rule. If the Project Moon setting goes even further and just straight up calls the closest thing to a government a corporation, then what does that make the system in question? I'd say an-cap. KazigluBey fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Mar 6, 2021 |
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Mar 6, 2021 04:18
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I feel the main crux of our disagreement comes from our different readings of A Corp's influence and reach. I would argue that A Corp goes far beyond of merely meddling in the business of other Wings. It sets the boundaries that everybody must follow, handles patents and minting and (as I recall, might be wrong on this last one) designates Wings in the first place, basically giving them control of the driving forces of the City. If Wings and Syndicates disagree within the boundaries A Corp sets, they have a war. If they break those boundaries, they will be erased. Asking if the governing body being structured like a corporation makes the setting ancap is a fair point in a way (and helps to point out why anarcho-capitalism is in no way actual anarchism), but if we understand government in the broadest terms as a central authority that makes rulings and decrees its subjects must follow and oversees and enforces those decrees, then I would definitely classify the Head as such. Just because the factions within the City are allowed to duke it out amongst each other does not make the system anarchistic, because they are still ultimately only doing it under the allowance of the Head. Anyways, good chat, I legit love these sorts of arguments as a rhetorical exercise. Alas, sleep calls, so no further responses from me for a while
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Mar 6, 2021 04:44
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Oh hey, boundry of death seems to work with twelve fixers and manipulator of odds. That's wonderfully useless.
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Mar 6, 2021 18:14
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Theantero posted:but if we understand government in the broadest terms as a central authority that makes rulings and decrees its subjects must follow and oversees and enforces those decrees, then I would definitely classify the Head as such. Just because the factions within the City are allowed to duke it out amongst each other does not make the system anarchistic, because they are still ultimately only doing it under the allowance of the Head. But that's the rub, outside of a few very restricted areas A Corp isn't a centralizing entity in the city. Much of what falls under the purview of government is delegated to the other corporations, especially in the sphere of violence. Though a lack of monopolization on violence the system balkanizes; A Corp sets a few broad rules but actual laws are the domain of the each Wing/Finger's particular disposition, as is enforcement. This results in functional warlordism, which is further fragmented downward as you get away from A Corp's sphere of interest, and the further still when you're not directly a part of a Wing. Private militias and gangs enforce arbitrary rules at the lowest level (where there virtually NO rule of law), then you get to the Wing/Finger level and you're primarily dealing with their laws and peculiarities, and then only when you're part of the elite of a Wing or Finger do you really care what the Head says or wants, mostly because the Head's diktats aren't something the average City dweller can even really go against as a result of lack of means. I get where you're coming from but I'm still not convinced that the very limited things that A Corp does substitutes it for a government. In the kind of comical extreme form of an-capism where corps are the end all be all I still feel like if one is the biggest and gets to set a few rules but otherwise leaves the rest alone (especially in the sphere of violence) you're still dealing with an an-cap dystopia, it hasn't becomes some other form of rule. The fact that there's low-intensity conflict that blows up into small-grade war from time to time due to the absence of restrictions on violence seems to me to be a very anarchic, as well. I'll tell you what, I'm VERY interested in seeing what ends up being canonical once the next games release. Which one did they say was next, the "Explore Lob Corp fallen branches" dungeon crawler or the "manage a city district" city sim? I'm pretty sure we'll get a much better idea of how the city functions from those two, especially the management one. Good chat, I agree. I still don't see eye to eye with you on this but I can deffo get the reading you're working off of and how you got to it.
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Mar 6, 2021 21:04
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KazigluBey posted:I'll tell you what, I'm VERY interested in seeing what ends up being canonical once the next games release. Which one did they say was next, the "Explore Lob Corp fallen branches" dungeon crawler or the "manage a city district" city sim? I'm pretty sure we'll get a much better idea of how the city functions from those two, especially the management one. I believe it was the L-Branch Dungeon Crawler that was stated to be the next release, though I might be wrong. But yes, I agree that it is probably best to shelve this discussion until more Canon becomes available, since I doubt we'll be getting much further than this without repeating ourselves. I still disagree, but it's not like I think your reading is badly reasoned either, based on what we know at the moment.
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Mar 6, 2021 23:24
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KazigluBey posted:But that's the rub, outside of a few very restricted areas A Corp isn't a centralizing entity in the city. Much of what falls under the purview of government is delegated to the other corporations, especially in the sphere of violence. Though a lack of monopolization on violence the system balkanizes; A Corp sets a few broad rules but actual laws are the domain of the each Wing/Finger's particular disposition, as is enforcement. This results in functional warlordism, which is further fragmented downward as you get away from A Corp's sphere of interest, and the further still when you're not directly a part of a Wing. Private militias and gangs enforce arbitrary rules at the lowest level (where there virtually NO rule of law), then you get to the Wing/Finger level and you're primarily dealing with their laws and peculiarities, and then only when you're part of the elite of a Wing or Finger do you really care what the Head says or wants, mostly because the Head's diktats aren't something the average City dweller can even really go against as a result of lack of means. I get where you're coming from but I'm still not convinced that the very limited things that A Corp does substitutes it for a government. In the kind of comical extreme form of an-capism where corps are the end all be all I still feel like if one is the biggest and gets to set a few rules but otherwise leaves the rest alone (especially in the sphere of violence) you're still dealing with an an-cap dystopia, it hasn't becomes some other form of rule. The fact that there's low-intensity conflict that blows up into small-grade war from time to time due to the absence of restrictions on violence seems to me to be a very anarchic, as well. As the guy who started this segue on the LP thread, I do have one bit I'd like to drop The implication I get from reading the material isn't that A-Corp can't regulate the other corporations, it simply chooses not to because it's content with the status quo of the city at large. The moment the Head decides to change things, my impression is that everyone sits down or shuts up. The whole "Yeah, you know the apocalypse ending of Lobcorp? Yeah, the Head'll sort that out before any real damage gets done to the system" bit that I think was mentioned once (Hence why it's considered a Bad End despite being a faster and more extreme version of what happens in the Good End). A single Arbiter brought down L-Corporation's main branch. And the implication I got from Binah is that the Head can effectively deploy Arbiters 'As required or needed', and that whole perfect info-control they have going (By way of any Arbiter who isn't working for the Head instantly and irrevocably loses the majority of their bullshit powers and inside knowledge the moment they diverge from the mission) means that even taking an Arbiter down or flipping one doesn't actually make you stronger. And that's all I've got.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:15
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Alectai posted:A single Arbiter brought down L-Corporation's main branch. Binah's assault was before LobCorp was even a thing, when the gang was still chillin' in that Outskirts Lab. LobCorp was founded after A probed her brain for ways to continue his project without tipping off the Head. The whole corporation is basically cover to get away with his doomsday plot in plain sight.
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Mar 7, 2021 01:33
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MinutePirateBug posted:Oh hey, boundry of death seems to work with twelve fixers and manipulator of odds. That's wonderfully useless. I was messing around with that on Yuijin with one of the new reception fights that uses a lot of ranged attack dice. Extremely funny, though after they add page lock back in wasting three of the best gold pages on a gimmick for that fight will absolutely not be worth it.
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Mar 7, 2021 02:54
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