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Natural 20 posted:If the monsters are avoiding you you are explicitly overleveled according to the game. There is a loading screen tip that literally says you need to find stronger enemies. Then we both agree that the dungeons are short.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:35 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:04 |
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Borsche69 posted:Then we both agree that the dungeons are short.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:36 |
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Kyrosiris posted:The game's already been beaten on a no-EXP-gained new game plus on hard so I dunno what you want from it. Yes the game is broken if you have JP for all the jobs. I don't think anyone is questioning that! Borsche69 posted:Then we both agree that the dungeons are short. So do you play RPGs by levelling up on trash in the world and then running away from every encounter while in the content you were grinding for? If so, uh, more power to you, but I don't think you're playing the game the way that most people do.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:38 |
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He can fight as many enemies in the dungeon as he wants and if he starts getting bored/thinks hes taking too long in the dungeon he can just pop a ward light. He is the master of his own experience and it feels like he's going out of his way to punish himself. Again, he's spending 2 loving hours in apparently every dungeon so far.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:44 |
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Borsche69 posted:He can fight as many enemies in the dungeon as he wants and if he starts getting bored/thinks hes taking too long in the dungeon he can just pop a ward light. He is the master of his own experience and it feels like he's going out of his way to punish himself. Again, he's spending 2 loving hours in apparently every dungeon so far. Let's take what you've said as reasonably as I can. I pop ward light and just run through half of every dungeon because I'm bored. I come up against mandatory boss fights that eventually start breaking me because I'm starved of XP and JP. At some point then I have to just sit and grind to deal with the problem I've caused by skipping half the dungeon. Bearing in mind that I'm already, per the game, underleveled, I'm exacerbating a potential issue that already exists. That is a completely undesirable situation in every sense of the word. I suspect that I'm never going to get through to you on this. The options to change difficulty/encounter rate are fine but they aren't a substitute for actually curating a level curve and dungeon time that feel rewarding. If a player plays the game as I have, which is, I think, in a really reasonable way, the game becomes a boring slog and that's bad. The solution you present is "Just don't play the game," which is valid but also proves the point I'm trying to make.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:51 |
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Natural 20 posted:I'm starved of [...] JP So go spend like 5 minutes on the prologue seashore chaining mobs for lots of JP and move on? Like, idk, the game is very much like FF5 where it's quite easy (and even more efficient in some ways) to skip most of the randoms and spot-grind as you encounter resistance to unlock more job functionality.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:54 |
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Natural 20 posted:Let's take what you've said as reasonably as I can. Alright then it sounds like you shouldn't play the game.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:55 |
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Kyrosiris posted:So go spend like 5 minutes on the prologue seashore chaining mobs for lots of JP and move on? Yeah and to me that's bad. That's design from 20 years ago that Bravely Default 1 moved smoothly past. (Through softcapping jobs at level 4 and level 8 and through the default random encounter pace being designed with the dungeon length in mind) If that's what I have to, it's what I have to do, but it's disappointing in the context of a sequel to a pair of games I absolutely loved in no small part because of how good their gameplay pacing was.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 18:59 |
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I've not really run into that problem. Yes, getting to a new area will have monsters glow scary red but then I gain one or two levels and it stops. That's a level curve that is right on point. Someone mentioned this earlier but you really need one or two characters built for clearing random encounters. Berserker is great for this (strong physical AOEs) as is Monk (Pressure Point only costs BP and oneshots most monsters).
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:00 |
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SO I'm just at the end of chapter 1 but I saw someone complaing about dungeon design and size wrt the Ruins dungeon. It's literally 2 boxes with smaller boxes inside and you can always see the halls above and below you if you leave the big open area. It takes 30 seconds to walk from the entrance to the boss fight with no encounters. It's a incredibly tiny place and it's just a simple layout. I wouldn't mind a mini map but not having one isn't really an issue, at least in for the example they brought up here. This place, even with its dead ends, isn't really any more complicated than an office building IRL. I dunno maybe I'm just really good at visualizing spaces but there's nothing really to get lost in here. Even the haunted house is actually just a bunch of dead end hallways made by furniture and there's really only one path forward while the rest just loops around in the common area.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 19:05 |
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Squinky v2.0 posted:Even if that was a full 12 hour boat, you missed out on like 4 JP orbs. The boat system asks very little of you and gives pretty minor rewards. It痴 just not that big of a thing at the end of the day. Early on I got one of those humongous JP orbs which was great for maxing somebody's Freelancer. Just like how I got 6K gold from some grass pretty early. I think the game was just trying to hook me to engage with otherwise tedious systems.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:11 |
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grieving for Gandalf posted:the dungeons in BD1 didn't feel great because you'd end up running through them with the encounters off and not even looking at the actual dungeon, you were looking at your map, which ends up feeling wack. it's good they put the map away The dungeons in BD1 didn't feel great because they were uniformly flat twisty hallways with no features or set pieces.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:13 |
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Playing on Hard and very much enjoying just running around using Shakedown on high level rares to get overpowered equipment.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:31 |
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Josuke Higashikata posted:Same goes for the boat thing really. The boat thing runs exclusively when you're not playing the game, how is that possibly a waste of your time? ... You're not literally avoiding playing the game in order to max it out, are you?
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:43 |
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How are people getting like 10-battle long fight chains? I don't think I've ever gotten more than like 4.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:50 |
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Srice posted:I've been doing zero grinding and I've found it makes the boss fights challenging in an exciting way, and perfectly doable; at worst I wipe once and reconfigure my team setup to counter what they do. I've been doing zero grinding except to occasionally farm a few monsters that would be handy for my beastmaster subs to use and I've walked through nearly every boss so far up through chapter 3. I've died to random trash mobs with cheap shot attacks like Thanatophobia more than bosses. It was pretty funny going back to the gambler asterisk way later than I should have because I thought her BnD battle would be hard, and destroying her with Off the Chain / Off the Leash attacks in a single turn to where she did her 50% health cutscene after dying. Kinda feels at this point like I could just walk through the rest of the game on the power of thief and beastmaster alone.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:50 |
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Harrow posted:How are people getting like 10-battle long fight chains? I don't think I've ever gotten more than like 4. You find enemies that run away from you and herd them all into a corner somewhere. The easiest place is the beach outside the first town.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:51 |
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Harrow posted:How are people getting like 10-battle long fight chains? I don't think I've ever gotten more than like 4. Corral enemies into a corner while they run from you, then pop a lure food for one of the families involved. The shoreline for the prologue is great for this because the enemies drop their own lure food and the corraling is easy.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:57 |
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My pro tip is to stop reading the thread until you're at endgame. Part of the game of bravely games is finding your own weird broken combos. Reading other people's strats can spoil the sense of discovery a little
Impermanent fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 6, 2021 |
# ? Mar 6, 2021 20:57 |
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I知 about to start this game (Persona Strikers distracted me) I知 a big big BD1 fan, but was a bit disappointed with the battle system in the demo - how are people finding it in the full game
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:06 |
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I got used to it pretty quickly, really. I was also skeptical of the change to how turn order works in the demo but after a short time playing the full game it feels normal to me now. The big adjustment is that enemies now like to counter your actions with actions of their own, sometimes interrupting your turn. It's a big change from how Default 1 and Second did things and can feel really punishing in boss fights until you start to learn how to work around it.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:34 |
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It took me awhile to figure out that you can still select to "group-target" a spell even if there's only one enemy, but it makes for a pretty amusing (also maybe broken?) late-game combo. (Ch.5) Red Mage (Chainspell) + Arcanist (All-in) + Full-force + Magic Critical + Critical Flow + Reflect Ring. Even though there's only one target and there's no damage reduction, you get the full-force bonus and then you still reflect from All-in. Full force is surprisingly strong so each -aga does about the same damage as Disaster, in other words in one turn you can hit the enemy with the equivalent of 16 Disasters for 3 BP & ~200mp. Add in debuffs/buffs + vulnerability and you can easily do at least 140k in one turn. With 16-hits you'll also usually get at least 1-2 BP from Critical Flow meaning you can repeat it again next turn. Demon Rod + Darkga makes this even dumber? You can technically do this as soon as you get Arcanist, reflect ring just makes it so you can do it Turn 1.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 21:43 |
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Ojetor posted:I've not really run into that problem. Yes, getting to a new area will have monsters glow scary red but then I gain one or two levels and it stops. That's a level curve that is right on point. Unless you run from literally every encounter or are otherwise explicitly avoiding it, you should have at least one character maxed on Freelancer by the end of the prologue and all of them by the end of Chapter 1. Which means all your characters should have Body Slam available, which is effective for one-shotting trash mob enemies at least as far as chapter 3, but at that point you should have comparable abilities from other jobs that do way more damage for the same BP cost. What was the boss everyone was talking about that some reviewer was saying was too difficult, by the way?
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 22:54 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I知 about to start this game (Persona Strikers distracted me) I'm liking it a lot more than the demo. I think the battle system is really strong honestly and in ways I think it's got a more fun early game than BD and BS because every job seems pretty strong and you get new skills ways faster than the previous games. There's definitely some frustrating elements with some bosses but the core gameplay loop is way good imo.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 22:59 |
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raditts posted:Unless you run from literally every encounter or are otherwise explicitly avoiding it, you should have at least one character maxed on Freelancer by the end of the prologue and all of them by the end of Chapter 1. Which means all your characters should have Body Slam available, which is effective for one-shotting trash mob enemies at least as far as chapter 3, but at that point you should have comparable abilities from other jobs that do way more damage for the same BP cost. I didn't run from anything and I maxxed my first freelancers in the thief dungeon, but you shouldn't really need body slam until that point anyway so it's fine. The Beastmaster boss is pretty hairy though. THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I知 about to start this game (Persona Strikers distracted me) There's good and there's bad based on what you like. The classes are more available this time so you can chop and change what you want more. This is offset by Freelancer maxxing being available from the off and JP up being a pair of passive skills meaning that often it feels like you're locked to 2/5 passive points because the rest are set on JP up. That limits experimentation somewhat but otherwise it is pretty breezy. The battle system is actually pretty good. All it is is an ATB system ala FF5/6/7 with bells on. So if you like those games then even if you didn't enjoy the demo you'll find that the battle system holds up. Bosses and fights in general are interesting and offer a real challenge this time around. I feel like trash is a bit too HP spongey later on but there's a lot of stuff to think about from the boss fights and you'll generally have the tools to deal with them. The story and characters is about as paint by numbers as default from the early part. There's a few great twists so it holds up a little better and I've not seen a complete logic collapse like there was in the bottom half of BD1. I've argued up the thread that the dungeon pacing is off for a lot of reasons. If you're the kind of person that will grind for fun ahead of a dungeon and go in overpowered then you'll have a fine time, but if you're the kind of person who doesn't do that and takes encounters as they come, you're going to have an awful time. it's probably the biggest downside I see in the game. Ironically I feel like the player agency, so difficulty setting / encounter setting is worse in this. Grinding is harder to do overall because you have to be a sheepdog to get enemies coralled for a decent grind rather than just turning up the encounter rate and oneshotting everything for chain kill / no damage bonuses. I think broadly the game is a step down on the prior ones but that doesn't make it a bad game. Equally I spent today playing Banjo Kazooie rather than playing this and I feel much better for it so ymmv. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Mar 6, 2021 |
# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:00 |
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I’m about to start this game (Persona Strikers distracted me) I didn't play the bd2 demo but I like it just fine. I might even like it better, because it requires you to engage with the game more rather than just brainlessly setting speedx4/auto-battle, and I can't think of a situation where I would ever want random encounters over on-field enemies.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:00 |
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Something I wish this game had kept from Default 1/Second is the ability to turn off EXP gain. I kind of enjoy chilling out and grinding JP sometimes but I'd love to do it without getting EXP and gaining a bunch of levels that I don't really want. Doing so in the prologue area does mean that eventually you're not getting appreciable EXP, but it'd still be nice to have the option.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:06 |
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raditts posted:What was the boss everyone was talking about that some reviewer was saying was too difficult, by the way? In the red mage fight there's also a monster immune to physical attacks but I was able to immediately nuke it down with beastmaster captures. The idea that killing it would take an hour like that reviewer said, is absurd.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:28 |
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Natural 20 posted:If you're the kind of person that will grind for fun ahead of a dungeon and go in overpowered then you'll have a fine time you know there's a level threshold for the monsters running away from you, right? like for whatever dungeon, they will chase after you if you are under level 20. but once you hit level 20, they will run away from you. going in with an extra level is hardly overpowered. like a single level gives you, what? an extra weight? some stat increases based on your job? you're hardly going to be walking over the bosses. i don't know if you think everyones grinding out 30 actual levels or something before they hit a dungeon.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:37 |
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Natural 20 posted:Ironically I feel like the player agency, so difficulty setting / encounter setting is worse in this. Grinding is harder to do overall because you have to be a sheepdog to get enemies coralled for a decent grind rather than just turning up the encounter rate and oneshotting everything for chain kill / no damage bonuses. okay here we go. i don't know how many times i can say this but use monster bait. its an insane increase in stat gain - corralling monsters like that will get you 1.1x or 1.2x at most, where monster baits will get you more like 1.6x exp (and even more if you combine it with the corralling technique - although i dont bother with that since its a pain in the rear end). secondly with oneshotting - you can do that too. theres a bunch of jobs that are great mob control poo poo. red mage main with black mage sub will cast spells 2x for no extra MP cost. beserker has a great 'attack all enemies for huge damage' at the cost of HP. throw down some braves and go to down. again, you are spending 2 hours in dungeons and having trouble clearing out mobs with 3000 HP at the tail end of chapter 3. this is an experience very clearly unique to you.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:44 |
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I keep forgetting to steal from bosses so hopefully none of them have had any cool unique stuff so far.Natural 20 posted:Like that's obviously incorrect for a lot of reasons. If dungeons take you 2 hours the problem is your party. I just grabbed the first job in Ch2 and that dungeon might've been 30 minutes including time I spent capturing monsters ans testing what their beastmaster effects are (which needs to be in the bestiary or something because come on game) and the enemies were red to me when I started the dungeon, though I picked up 2-3 levels inside. I also have pressure point on 2 characters and the other 2 had body slam so I can 1 round 99% of random encounters. Though if something survives then things can go badly for a few turns but the only way I see a dungeon taking a long time is if I'd run a group with really bad damage output. Srice posted:In the red mage fight there's also a monster immune to physical attacks but I was able to immediately nuke it down with beastmaster captures. The idea that killing it would take an hour like that reviewer said, is absurd. Pretty sure I killed that thing with pressure point (and maybe a couple golem captures) plus whatever my monkzerker was using.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:51 |
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Srice posted:In the red mage fight there's also a monster immune to physical attacks but I was able to immediately nuke it down with beastmaster captures. The idea that killing it would take an hour like that reviewer said, is absurd.
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# ? Mar 6, 2021 23:54 |
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Borsche69 posted:okay here we go. i don't know how many times i can say this but use monster bait. its an insane increase in stat gain - corralling monsters like that will get you 1.1x or 1.2x at most, where monster baits will get you more like 1.6x exp (and even more if you combine it with the corralling technique - although i dont bother with that since its a pain in the rear end). So from the off. I really don't think the issues with dungeon length are unique to me. There are comments up thread about the water cave being too long and I've been chatting with a few people in discord who recognise the same issue. It takes me maybe two rounds to clear 4-6 mobs at 3k HP. Which I think is probably reasonable. In chapter 3 I was using a BP battery to fuel pressure points from a monk, who would twoshot or oneshot enemies on a crit. Most encounters fall in around a minute. I've found Red/Black mage to generally be pretty bad because the damage from spells is anemic and costs you MP that could be better spent on buffs for your BP spender classes. As for Berserker, I used that and found the damage to be lower than what monk was putting out. In terms of grinding, I still think the easiest system for grinding is the BD1 model of being able to run in circles holding down the y button and killing everything with no player input. Evil Fluffy posted:If dungeons take you 2 hours the problem is your party. I just grabbed the first job in Ch2 and that dungeon might've been 30 minutes including time I spent capturing monsters ans testing what their beastmaster effects are (which needs to be in the bestiary or something because come on game) and the enemies were red to me when I started the dungeon, though I picked up 2-3 levels inside. I also have pressure point on 2 characters and the other 2 had body slam so I can 1 round 99% of random encounters. Though if something survives then things can go badly for a few turns but the only way I see a dungeon taking a long time is if I'd run a group with really bad damage output. Which route did you take? One of those dungeons is absolutely fine and the other is far too long. In Ch2 I was largely oneshotting everything with Pressure Point.
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:02 |
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Natural 20 posted:So from the off. I really don't think the issues with dungeon length are unique to me. There are comments up thread about the water cave being too long and I've been chatting with a few people in discord who recognise the same issue. I don't see why you're bothering with a BP battery just for Pressure Point when you could just grab the Sub-Job BP Saver from Pictomancer. Set Monk as your sub-job to basically anything and feel free to go crazy. But when grinding out mobs like that, I highly suggest using spells/attacks that hit everything. Yeah you're one-shotting stuff with Pressure Point, doing higher damage for sure. But that's what single target spells/attacks should be doing. Pressure Point will do like 5K on one enemy, but Level Slash will do 1.2-1.5K to all 6 enemies. When you're factoring in that you are essentially 'wasting' 2K worth of damage on overkill, and then add in the time spent going through and attacking each one individually (in addition to this BP battery poo poo) you're really just wasting your time on mobs. Mobs aren't bosses. You need to think more of how to deal with a group in terms that are time and damage efficient.
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:11 |
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Srice posted:In the red mage fight there's also a monster immune to physical attacks but I was able to immediately nuke it down with beastmaster captures. The idea that killing it would take an hour like that reviewer said, is absurd. It's vulnerable to two weapon types I can't remember. You can switch weapons in combat with no BP cost, although to be fair I don't think it ever explains that. but anyway yeah that boss is really not that bad.
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:14 |
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Natural 20 posted:As for Berserker, I used that and found the damage to be lower than what monk was putting out. I don't understand this because even with Chapter 2 equipment, my Berserkers can do almost 2k damage with a single Level Slash, 3k if they get buffed first. Monk skills hit harder single-target, but Level Slash, well, levels random encounters.
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:20 |
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raditts posted:Unless you run from literally every encounter or are otherwise explicitly avoiding it, you should have at least one character maxed on Freelancer by the end of the prologue and all of them by the end of Chapter 1. Which means all your characters should have Body Slam available, which is effective for one-shotting trash mob enemies at least as far as chapter 3, but at that point you should have comparable abilities from other jobs that do way more damage for the same BP cost. What if you actually used the jobs the game gave you instead of levelling freelancer like a drat chump?
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:31 |
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Then you put everyone in Berseker and spam crescent slash each encounter!
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 00:49 |
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Harrow posted:I don't understand this because even with Chapter 2 equipment, my Berserkers can do almost 2k damage with a single Level Slash, 3k if they get buffed first. Monk skills hit harder single-target, but Level Slash, well, levels random encounters. And the best thing is you can do both if you use Free for All, and even more efficiently with the Berserker 12 specialty. Like straight up, Berserker/Monk -> Swordmaster/Berserker walked all over the game on Hard until like... the very endgame.
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 01:19 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 08:04 |
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I'm convinced monkzerker is the god combo. I was kind of annoyed/confused on fists not having an element but as it turns out if it doesn't have an element it can't be resisted!
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# ? Mar 7, 2021 01:24 |