|
socialsecurity posted:Exactly, the "Wanda didn't mean to hurt anyone" only works if you ignore everything but the last episode. She showed several times throughout the series when she threatened people and banished those that oppose her. Do you think those SWORD dudes she turned into clowns that she thought she was not hurting them? Maybe it's more accurate to say that Wanda didn't mean to hurt the people of Westview. She drat well meant to hurt people that were out to hurt her and/or gently caress with her new paradise. Wanda's life has been blowing up since she was ten years hold. Stark's munitions orphaned her and almost ended her. She found a place with HYDRA (maybe not a nice place, but a place. And the Avengers blew it up. She and Pietro linked up with Ultron, but Ultron was a genocidal kill-bot who eventually murdered Pietro. So, through something like emotional inertia show joins the Avengers. And then that blows up in Lagos and Germany. So, she becomes a fugitive, managing to steal occasional moments of happiness with Vision. That's about to become something permanent when Thanos comes along to wreck it. Then one second and a couple-three weeks later, she's sitting in the marked off spot of a house that will never be built and it all catches up to her and that's the Hex. While Wanda doesn't get what she did or how, she does get that this is her world under her control. Nothing blows up here unless she okays it. So, of course Wanda's going to fight (and hurt people) to keep her world. And of course she's going to be somewhat willfully blind to the harm she's doing because this is finally her "Happily Ever After" and those clowns from SWORD better not mess with it.
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2021 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:21 |
|
|
Azhais posted:Yeah, don't call someone a villain just because they enslaved and tortured thousands of men, women, and children The protagonist of the first three phases was an arms dealer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
Azhais posted:Yeah, don't call someone a villain just because they enslaved and tortured thousands of men, women, and children
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2021 23:51
|
|
|
stev posted:The protagonist of the first three phases was an arms dealer. And he shuts it all down in the second act of his first movie. Tony's entire arc is atoning for his sins.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2021 23:52
|
|
|
live with fruit posted:And he shuts it all down in the second act of his first movie. Tony's entire arc is atoning for his sins. And he's dead so he's never making that last one up. He got lucky the teenager ended up straight-chumping most of the tech. Wanda's journey isn't over. Maybe chill and wait?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2021 23:57
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:One of the ways he did that was by creating Ultron, and later a drone army controlled by sunglasses which he entrusted to a high schooler. I mean, the teenager was his protege and an Avenger and the whole point of Far From Home is that Peter was deserving of Tony's trust, but the bigger point is that Tony's always framed as a hero. Civil War is all about how people are afraid of Wanda and WandaVision bumps that up to afraid and angry. And now she's more powerful than Strange and studying an evil book that has a chapter about her. It's probably more fluid than just hero/villain but there's enough there to think that Wanda's gonna be on the wrong side at the beginning of Multiverse of Madness.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
So which of the townsfolk will emerge as a super villain 4 years from now wanting vengeance on Wanda and any other powered person? I am going with Dottie, but my darkhorse is Norm.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:30
|
|
|
stev posted:The protagonist of the first three phases was an arms dealer. the first ten minutes of Iron Man are about Tony being an arms dealer WandaVision is nine 30-50 minute episodes of Wanda being an arms dealer, and in the last ten minutes a character says "eh, we've all been there" before she flies away
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
I want Dottie and her husband to get their own actual sitcom.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
Bleck posted:the first ten minutes of Iron Man are about Tony being an arms dealer Ok but he was an arms dealer for decades, and continues to live a life of luxury and fund all future endeavors with the billions he made selling weapons. Wanda did her thing for like a week.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
swickles posted:So which of the townsfolk will emerge as a super villain 4 years from now wanting vengeance on Wanda and any other powered person? I am going with Dottie, but my darkhorse is Norm. I was thinking that haha
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
stev posted:Ok but he was an arms dealer for decades, and continues to live a life of luxury and fund all future endeavors with the billions he made selling weapons. Wanda did her thing for like a week. my point is that telling a story about a person navigating the social and emotional consequences of a bad thing that they did tends to work best if you actually, you know, do that instead WandaVision is a show where we watch a person do something bad for a significant period of time and then hastily try to absolve her of responsibility in the final episode by vaguely implying it was an accident (despite earlier scenes implying heavily that this was not the case) it's easy to say "okay well next time" but even if you're a person who literally only watches MCU stuff it's fairly easy to observe that all of the especially critically well-received entries are the ones that actually have characters with agency that have emotional arcs popular topics in this thread have been whether or not Wanda was wrong to do what she did, whether or not she should face consequences for it, and what form those consequences may take - people with media literacy may notice that good stories, even in the MCU, tend to be about those things, instead of very blandly showing a series of events and then asking viewers to do the heavy lifting of determining what the story was supposed to be
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
swickles posted:So which of the townsfolk will emerge as a super villain 4 years from now wanting vengeance on Wanda and any other powered person? I am going with Dottie, but my darkhorse is Norm. Delivery Guy gonna deliver vengeance! stev posted:The protagonist of the first three phases was an arms dealer. And he doesn't get called on it enough too!
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 01:24
|
|
|
Bleck posted:my point is that telling a story about a person navigating the social and emotional consequences of a bad thing that they did tends to work best if you actually, you know, do that 1. We were watching "the bad thing" literally as it unfolded, not the social and emotional consequences. 2. The show didn't absolve her of responsibility, as much as (correctly) acknowledge that basically no one can hold her to task for it. Aside from the conversation with Monica, which was poo poo, she flies off into the middle of nowhere reading a Cthullu book. It really seems like you have this weird boner to see Wanda "get punished" because "bad things get punished" even though both the real world and the MCU have a long, long history of that not happening even when well-deserved. You don't need to like it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 01:38
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:You are reading so so far into the intent of this show. You don't get it, any piece of media worth a drat explicitly spells out not only who the good guys and the bad guys are but also what the moral of the story is, and if they ask the audience to come to their own conclusions, well, that's just bad writing. How am I supposed to enjoy a story if I don't know what the author wanted me to think about it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 01:45
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:You are reading so so far into the intent of this show. How did they keep her locked on the Raft? They must have some way of keeping her powers in check.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 01:56
|
|
|
socialsecurity posted:How did they keep her locked on the Raft? They must have some way of keeping her powers in check. The Raft is underwater and at the time she didn’t know she was reality rewriting powerful.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:03
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:You don't get it, any piece of media worth a drat explicitly spells out not only who the good guys and the bad guys are but also what the moral of the story is, and if they ask the audience to come to their own conclusions, well, that's just bad writing. Yeah lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:23
|
|
|
Hey has Kathryn Hahns post Wandavision interview been posted? https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/07/arts/television/kathryn-hahn-wandavision.html Hahn has a very interesting take on where Agatha stands right now, and a little deeper too quote:I actually don’t think, ultimately, that she minds it. She needed to rest for a hot second. She’s been very restless. I think she was very lonely, for a very, very long time. She loves having the companionship — loves the mailman, loves Ralph, loves Dottie. For the moment, I think she’s actually OK to just loosen the corset and sit and have a muffin and a latte. Also all of Hahns scenes were great because she was having a blast the whole time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:28
|
|
|
mind the walrus posted:1. We were watching "the bad thing" literally as it unfolded, not the social and emotional consequences. ...yes. yes we were. I am acknowledging this fact, and saying that that's bad mind the walrus posted:2. The show didn't absolve her of responsibility yes it did mind the walrus posted:It really seems like you have this weird boner to see Wanda "get punished" nobody is actually saying this and the show's defenders repeatedly trying to mischaracterize criticisms of the writing as a desire for torture porn is moronic mind the walrus posted:You don't need to like it. good, 'cause I don't XboxPants posted:You don't get it, any piece of media worth a drat explicitly spells out not only who the good guys and the bad guys are but also what the moral of the story is, and if they ask the audience to come to their own conclusions, well, that's just bad writing. hey remember when you tried to defend this show's bad writing by saying "okay well black people have it way worse than the westview folks, so,"
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
I don't think this show is good or bad enough to have Snyder-like rifts about it. Maybe we should all take a pill and watch some sitcoms and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:41
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:I don't think this show is good or bad enough to have Snyder-like rifts about it. Maybe we should all take a pill and watch some sitcoms and stuff. Hmm well what's your favorite recent Marvel show? MCU or mcu-adjacent. I though Jessica Jones was pretty loving great, awesome cast, though I never actually finished it so I wouldn't be surprised if it's another Marvel property that sorta sputters out at the end. I heard good things about Legion, but also that it sorta varies wildly season to season? Anyway, would appreciate any recc's. This was also pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LChUEzIyoBQ
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:51
|
|
|
I, too, strongly feel for the residents of a fictional town in a comic book universe and feel that WandaVision, the documentary, should have better considered their point of view.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:54
|
|
|
TheWorldsaStage posted:Hey has Kathryn Hahns post Wandavision interview been posted? They'd be bonkers not to bring her back. Just have her team up with Olsen, Loki and Thor style.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:57
|
|
|
A marvel show of them aping miracle man - The golden age would rule.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 02:59
|
|
|
XboxPants posted:Hmm well what's your favorite recent Marvel show? MCU or mcu-adjacent. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:00
|
|
|
I liked the first couple seasons of Daredevil, and Punisher's first season. Legion is actually good, by the way this is the only Marvel show that can have the "this is so different and experimental" seal. I need to finish it, sadly I think it got pulled from my zone's Netflix 
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:08
|
|
|
BlackIronHeart posted:I want Dottie and her husband to get their own actual sitcom. honestly the biggest laugh this show got from me was the 'dottie: honey do these earrings make me look fat? *power goes out* norm: oh thank god'
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:31
|
|
|
Adus posted:honestly the biggest laugh this show got from me was the 'dottie: honey do these earrings make me look fat? *power goes out* norm: oh thank god' 'That was my grandmother's piano' was funny, now it's just sheer black humor since it likely really was his grandmother's piano.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:32
|
|
|
Thundercracker posted:They'd be bonkers not to bring her back. Just have her team up with Olsen, Loki and Thor style. Funny you mention those guys. Odin was also enthralled into some boring non-powered role too but eventually snapped out of it and kept a low profile. Will Agatha snap out eventually too and do the same?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:41
|
|
|
Desperado Bones posted:Ralph Bohner shows in Falcon and the Winter Soldier's last after-credits scene. Maybe he's the witness Jimmy was coming to see. Now Sam and Bucky have to protect him from a criminal cartel run by the Madriporan Ambassador.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
No, ralph was an actor and you cant be in the open if you are under witness protection.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:56
|
|
|
RBCU Ralph Bohner Cinematic Universe
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 03:58
|
|
|
I just realized this is what happened to all the nerds mad at Roger Ebert for saying video games aren't art; why do you validation for a thing that makes billions of dollars and entertains most people?
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 04:24
|
|
|
black widow is literally an assassin who gets called out in one scene at the end of age of ultron when all the murders she did was declassified. it's never bought up in the movies again, she ends up the leader of the avengers in end game or something, and when she dies for the soul stone, it's viewed in universe as a tragic sacrifice despite everyone now knowing she assassinated people as a soviet spy. i don't really get people being so deadset on wanda being "punished" at the end of wandavision.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 04:50
|
|
|
Splash Attack posted:i don't really get people being so deadset on wanda being "punished" at the end of wandavision. what I really don't get is all the people saying that they don't get the people saying this despite what appears to be an absence of anybody saying that
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 04:54
|
|
|
Bleck posted:what I really don't get is all the people saying that they don't get the people saying this despite what appears to be an absence of anybody saying that Xander B Coolridge posted:Why are punitive consequences out of the question? Why does our protagonist get to escape facing any sort of work towards helping heal those she harmed? QuoProQuid posted:at a minimum? go directly to jail. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 04:58
|
|
|
Splash Attack posted:black widow is literally an assassin who gets called out in one scene at the end of age of ultron when all the murders she did was declassified. it's never bought up in the movies again, she ends up the leader of the avengers in end game or something, and when she dies for the soul stone, it's viewed in universe as a tragic sacrifice despite everyone now knowing she assassinated people as a soviet spy. I hear you, and that's a good point. I think our view on the situation depends on what is directly being shown. We know Black Widow and many other heroes did bad things in the past, but we generally see them in the movies as trying to atone for that. Compared to Wanda, who we see doing those horrible things right now, and atonement isn't clearly stated. Trying to think about why this current situation feels off to me, as opposed to seeing Wolverine or the Hulk, is that it feel Wanda had an understanding of what was going on as seeing her leaving the Hex to confront SWORD and the multiple accusations thrown at her by Vision. This is opposed to Wolverine or Hulk, who were mind-washed to be weapons or completely out of their minds (Correct me if I'm wrong about Wolverine). But overall, I feel this is a show that many children will watch, and the more surface level message seems to be "It's not great, but okay if you do bad things unintentionally due to your emotions if you think it's right." And that same mindset has been used to uphold things like racism and classism through respectability politics. So I was hoping they'd be more explicit about Wanda accepting responsibility and overtly saying how she is trying to correct it, be it through learning to control her powers. I certainly don't want her tortured or imprisoned or anything for all this. Mind you, I am probably underestimating younger viewers ability to pick up on the subtle notes. The fact that Wanda immediately choked the citizens when she didn't want to hear the truth is clear framing that she's not in the right in this situation, or handling things effectively. On another note, I'm disappointed in how they handled Hayward. I feel he could have easily been set up to be someone driven by fear of living in this superhero world. Horrified but what he saw happen on the whim of super-being powered Thanos destroying many lives, seeing a similar situation play out again through Wanda's own desire. He could want to create a new Vision as a chance to fight back at things that the normal person cannot conceivably do in this universe, as some desperate plea for control. This could also paint his interactions with Monica, viewing her as someone that idolizes superheroes because of her relationship with Captain Marvel, as opposed to seeing them as dangerous beings as he likely does. He'd obviously still be the villain and need to be overcome, but I think it could make him less of a caricature as I felt he was in this show.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 05:11
|
|
|
Hulk is an uncontrollable monster and Banner feels so bad about the things that he does that he attempted suicide, it is not comparable to what Wanda did in this series.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 05:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 06:21 |
|
|
We should all look directly into the camera and say “That’s Wanda!” as a response to her mind-loving an entire town. Misunderstood hero? Tragic villain? “That’s Wanda!”
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2021 05:35
|
|