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I’ll echo what was already said: it’s a modern crack at FFT that mechanically is executed pretty well. The art and animation choices I didn’t love but that’s life. The game can actually provide a reasonable challenge with some adjustments from the defaults. I set things so enemies always scaled with me so that created a space where I got wiped a few times. The AI is smart enough to keep their folks alive and CCing your guys. If you aren’t over leveled it’s a fun ride. I doubt I’ll play it again but it was worth beating.
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Mar 9, 2021 15:40
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Naramyth posted:I’ll echo what was already said: it’s a modern crack at FFT that mechanically is executed pretty well. The art and animation choices I didn’t love but that’s life. I’d agree with this
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Mar 9, 2021 16:54
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Can't believe it took me this long to try Nowhere Prophet. God, what a cool game. It almost feels like a distant spiritual cousin to Caves of Qud in some ways.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:23
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Nowhere Prophet has a great soundtrack and art style but the card design part feels lacking. It's perfectly serviceable, but I never found a particularly interesting build - it was just get generically good cards and overwhelm your opponent. Shame as there's a lot of neat ideas.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:27
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I've found some extremely interesting interactions; I think the problem is that a) most of the starting leader/faction decks have a really bare-bones, all-comers design, and b) anyone can theoretically get any card, but which cards you have the opportunity to get are completely up to chance, even within your own class. So it's really hard to put together a tightly focused build... ...but not impossible! I won for the first time the other night, and I fully attribute that to the fact that I was playing the Stalker and realized "holy gently caress, Pull cards are goddamn amazing with Robust units, and Push effects are extremely handy when you stack a zillion expendable beast tokens in one row. I can push and pull my own guys to kill the enemy" and then aggressively scoured Blue Devils and Beasts regions for recruits. I ended up with a very coherent deck that worked fantastically well, particularly with some Rusters with Sniper and Raj/Feral units with First Strike sprinkled in to provide flexibility. I really enjoy the sense of cobbling together a cadre of apostles from all the cast-offs of the radically different factions that populate Soma. I've never played another game that feels quite the same.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:42
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I really really enjoyed it, and it has a banging OST I think I liked the setting art and music more than the game though
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Mar 9, 2021 17:44
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I'm normally a huge sucker mark for card roguelikes, but I got put off and really annoyed with Nowhere Prophet's card loss mechanics, because it constantly felt like I was being punished in a lovely, punitive way by my run slowly bleeding out if I dared to experiment or take things that I didn't already know were good.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:47
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It took me a bit to get used to attrition too. Once you get your head around the risk/reward aspect and the inevitability of losing a few followers now and then, you start to think of things more in terms of preparation and survival - working with what you have to be ready for the worst, rather than assembling a roguelike ascension kit. It all feels a bit more intuitive after that. Taking a bad card in your leader deck sucks, but that's why you sit on your Focus until you've tried your deck out against a random enemy or two - if you always use your Focus as soon as you get it, you're ensuring that you have no way to correct mistakes down the road. I won with like 3 unused Focus because I carefully assessed each new card before challenging bosses, and only ended up needing to nuke a few of them over the run. Taking a bad follower makes no difference because you simply remove them from your caravan deck, and they sit around contributing to your cult size and acting as last-ditch emergency reserves if something goes seriously wrong. Edit: the important corollary to all this is that the caches you can snag during battles are deliberately tempting and very risky. You have to know when to leave them alone, since minimizing attrition is often more important than a bit of food or a few Scholar points. victrix posted:I really really enjoyed it, and it has a banging OST Yeah the soundtrack fucks. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 17:56
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The attrition mechanic was thematic, but I suspect it also damaged the reach of the game. Players hate losing their stuff, and they hate time limits... NP managed to check both those boxes.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:01
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Razakai posted:Nowhere Prophet has a great soundtrack and art style but the card design part feels lacking. It's perfectly serviceable, but I never found a particularly interesting build - it was just get generically good cards and overwhelm your opponent. Shame as there's a lot of neat ideas. This was kind of my feeling with it. There are strategies that are more powerful than good_stuff.dec but taking cards for that kind of synergy has a massive downside if you don't manage to get there, and the upside isn't big enough to justify it. This is made much worse by the card loss mechanic. If your deck is based on synergies you can't afford to risk your key cards when they're wounded, which means that you actually need to not only build up enough cards that work with your strategy to fill a deck, you also have to get enough backup cards that it doesn't all full apart when they are wounded. If you're playing good stuff you can just rotate wounded dudes out without worrying about it. The card loss mechanic also felt like it was always pushing me to play as aggressively as possible to end matches before I had taken too many losses, which massively narrowed the viable card pool.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:02
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Yeah you kinda have to look ahead. If you see two Blue Devils regions on your top-level worldmap, building for Robust synergy is a great idea, because you will be recruiting a shitload of Blue Devils. If you see zero, it is definitely not safe to bet on Robust; you might be able to sprinkle some in for flexibility, but specializing in it probably isn't a good idea. Basically every choice demands a certain degree of forethought and caution; you have to think, "if this doesn't pan out, will it potentially kill me in the long run?" and then turn it down if the answer is yes. You cannot brute-force it - you have to watch for opportunities as they arise. It takes a lot of getting used to!! victrix posted:The attrition mechanic was thematic, but I suspect it also damaged the reach of the game. Players hate losing their stuff, and they hate time limits... NP managed to check both those boxes. Absolutely. I wasn't sure about NP until it "clicked," and then I suddenly adored it. I was trying to play it as a deckbuilder roguelike, but it's really a blood-soaked card-driven cyber-messiah Oregon Trail. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 18:06
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Why was there so much hype for loop hero? I haven't seen anything else from the devs but it sold huge numbers even on day one. Was the demo hugely popular? Is Devolver just that godly at marketing? Or is it a combination of that and not much coming out? Not a criticism of the game I don't have strong feelings.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:16
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No Wave posted:Why was there so much hype for loop hero? I haven't seen anything else from the devs but it sold huge numbers even on day one. Was the demo hugely popular? Is Devolver just that godly at marketing? Or is it a combination of that and not much coming out? Not a criticism of the game I don't have strong feelings. Good pixel art, something new, popular publisher, not much else going on, etc Edit: Also, I feel like anything that sticks out during "release droughts" is gonna get massively hyped, because the various gaming medias needs content. Broken Cog fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 19:18
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No Wave posted:Why was there so much hype for loop hero? I haven't seen anything else from the devs but it sold huge numbers even on day one. Was the demo hugely popular? Is Devolver just that godly at marketing? Or is it a combination of that and not much coming out? Not a criticism of the game I don't have strong feelings. Good visuals + heavy marketing sells copies, even if the game itself is trash. It's a very common thing in general.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:20
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I think it was a combination of interesting, novel mechanics, and top-tier aesthetics; you rarely see high-res pixel art like the game has while still being recognizable as pixel art, and the Commodore aesthetics carry over to the music as well. I don't put much stock in "not much else going on," because the span of time from late February to the end of March has a ton of poo poo I was really excited about, but that might just be my particular tastes being catered to by the whims of chance. Jack Trades posted:Good visuals + heavy marketing sells copies, even if the game itself is trash. It's a very common thing in general. A: Loop Hero didn't have heavy marketing in the slightest, it got excitement because people played the demo and liked it B: God drat you are the sourest, whiniest poster in this thread, always ready to jump in with how something is absolute worthless poo poo, with no nuance or any hint of perspective in the slightest. Even when you're saying something is good, you do it in comparison so you can say something else is worthless garbage and anyone who likes it is stupid and wrong. You're the kind of person who, perhaps, likes to think of themselves as contributing to the conversation, but all you do is be insulting and lovely. John Lee fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 19:21
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The only marketing I saw for Loop Hero was they gave some variety streamers keys and let them play before release. I know Jack Trades just hates the game but I would really like to know where this "heavy marketing" was because I'm definitely the target demo and somehow missed it. e: ^^ lol
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Mar 9, 2021 19:27
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Streamers *are* heavy marketing. Every streamer I watch has/is playing it and that is how I got turned onto it. It’s good.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:29
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I like it, it's not bad. But you do realize later on that it is pretty shallow, and absolutely does not have the staying power of something like Slay the Spire. Still, got a good 30 hours out of it. Edit: And it really is a very pretty game. I think that might have played a role in gaining it popularity.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:30
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But they weren't #ad segments, that would be like saying reviewers are marketing because they get keys for games. I realize that this CAN happen but I would argue most reviewers are ethical and most streamers will still talk poo poo about a game they got for free. at the end of the day i guess you could argue it's the internet so any exposure is good and ~marketing~
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Mar 9, 2021 19:31
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Mostly I think it's legitimately just a novel concept so a lot of people latched on to it. Including some streamers, which goes a long way towards generating hype. Certainly there are other factors, Devolver Digital is a pretty trusted publisher and I don't think it's competing with anything else right now, but mostly I really just think it's because it's fresh and interesting.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:31
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I mean I think it’s a fun and cool game that I already but 20 hours into myself. More time than I can say for some other games that are objectively better.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:33
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No Wave posted:Why was there so much hype for loop hero? I haven't seen anything else from the devs but it sold huge numbers even on day one. Was the demo hugely popular? Is Devolver just that godly at marketing? Or is it a combination of that and not much coming out? Not a criticism of the game I don't have strong feelings. Its a solid game, as the other have said the graphics are good (with the sole exception of the on-map marker for your guy imo), there is a decent amount of depth to the systems. It doesn't take a huge amount of time to play a round, and is really easy to get into but still has some decent discovery with stuff. It is an interesting take on a tower-defense style game mixed with a sort-of-rogue-light game, and at the price point I'd expect anyone who doesn't bounce off the game to get 20+ hours in it pretty easy. The demo was solid, teased the systems while offering a complete experience, and got some decent play time on twitch and stuff. Overall I don't think it was a case of them really being amazing at any one thing, but a good job at all the parts and the publisher pushing the game out to streamers well and the game itself not requiring a big investment in money/time to get into. There are a couple people in here who hate it and feel the need to constantly mention it, but overall they're outliers. CRAYON posted:But they weren't #ad segments, that would be like saying reviewers are marketing because they get keys for games. I realize that this CAN happen but I would argue most reviewers are ethical and most streamers will still talk poo poo about a game they got for free. Even if the streamers are up front about getting it free or being paid, and even if they don't like parts or whatever, as long as the game isn't trash its solid marketing. Honestly I'd expect more people to go watch someone play a game on twitch for a while instead of reading lovely game reviews or watching an ad when deciding if they want to pick a game up.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:35
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CRAYON posted:But they weren't #ad segments, that would be like saying reviewers are marketing because they get keys for games. I realize that this CAN happen but I would argue most reviewers are ethical and most streamers will still talk poo poo about a game they got for free. Marketing isn't advertising, advertising is just one aspect of marketing.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:36
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It's a pretty perfect streamer game as well, since it's easy to get into, always has something going on while being pretty non-committal at times, and if you don't bounce off it immediately, you are probably gonna enjoy it all the way to the end. It is a really good timewaster.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:39
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it's unique, and, it had a demo. so people checked it out with no cost went 'oh this interesting' and it started the discussion
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Mar 9, 2021 19:40
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It's definitely a game I would like to see a sequel or some DLC for, because as it stands once you're done, you're done. It's not infinitely replayable, you might wanna beat the final boss with each class and do the secret bonus boss thing but after that there's not much to do.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:43
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John Lee posted:B: God drat you are the sourest, whiniest poster in this thread, always ready to jump in with how something is absolute worthless poo poo, with no nuance or any hint of perspective in the slightest. Even when you're saying something is good, you do it in comparison so you can say something else is worthless garbage and anyone who likes it is stupid and wrong. You're the kind of person who, perhaps, likes to think of themselves as contributing to the conversation, but all you do is be insulting and lovely. I'm not sure what nuance you're expecting from me here because I already mentioned Loop Hero being basically an idle game with a prettier wrapper and there's not much more to that game to analyze. There's about the same build variety as in Cookie Clicker for gently caress's sake.  I didn't find the tile morphing mechanic to be any special either. I mean, it's interesting but I've already played god-games like Reus before and those do the same mechanic WAY better. EDIT: Also I'm sorry I have good taste in video games, I can't turn it off. 
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Mar 9, 2021 19:44
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There is definitely groundwork for some sort of additional content, like unused equipment slots (for another class perhaps). Also it seems pretty easy just to add new cards without adversely affecting anything else.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:46
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Arzaac posted:It's definitely a game I would like to see a sequel or some DLC for, because as it stands once you're done, you're done. It's not infinitely replayable, you might wanna beat the final boss with each class and do the secret bonus boss thing but after that there's not much to do. Reminds me of the incredible joy that is Desktop Dungeon, I feel that game had achieved a level of Minesweeper esque replayability. I think that's one of the problems with Metaprogression systems, at least it can be. You hit a point where the reward runs out and the players been wired to play, at least in part, for that sake and not just the game. Even if the game itself was replayable without it.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:49
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I wonder if this is a hot take but I'm perfectly ok with a game that isn't infinitely replayable.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:51
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SettingSun posted:I wonder if this is a hot take but I'm perfectly ok with a game that isn't infinitely replayable. It isn't, but it sure as gently caress feels like it these days Streamer/tube culture really want games that can be played/grinded forever (or at least, have the appearance that they can be), and they're just a highly visible representation of something that's been around for a good long time since RPG systems worked their way into every loving game under the sun (why no, I don't enjoy leveling up my guns in call of duty, why do you ask) How much engagement driven game design has contributed to that particular brand of brainworms I can't say, but it's certainly had an impact It's ok if a game is 20 hours and done, I swear (and yes, I'm saying this in the roguelikes thread  )
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Mar 9, 2021 19:55
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SettingSun posted:I wonder if this is a hot take but I'm perfectly ok with a game that isn't infinitely replayable. I think it's a hot take for a roguelike thread. The randomness in roguelikes exists to create replayability. If a roguelike is not infinitely replayable then I say gently caress off with the procedural generation and give me a hand-crafted experience.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:02
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Not even roguelikes are infinitely replayable; once you've gotten good enough to consistently beat a title in a myriad of ways the game loses its appeal and there's no shame in moving on, you've "beaten" it.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:07
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SettingSun posted:I wonder if this is a hot take but I'm perfectly ok with a game that isn't infinitely replayable. Of course. However, for this genre in particular I think what I am looking for is a game that I install on every computer I own, that I go and play when I've got some time to kill, when a game is installing, when my internet goes down. Not that I will play it forever, but that I can always go back to when I want to. ADOM/Crawl/Nethack/Angband/DoomRL do this really well, so does Desktop Dungeon. Not that every game in this genre needs to fulfill that, but, I think it's pretty admirable when modern takes on this genre nail it too. A game where playing it and doing a run is always its own reward. This is something, interestingly, I think hades does well. The metaprogression is there, it does gate your power and I think if nothing else that be an area for improvement. In its idealized form, it serves to ramp up and tutorialize the player in shorter runs to get them used to dying but I think this is hit and miss for players. Once you get past the 'grind' of the mirror I think just doing runs is fun seperate of any kind of metaprogression. Loophero has a lot going for it in this area, but I think its metaprogression nakedly stinks because it's the goal of the game, it is your objective as a player and in the narrative and so it has a limited shelf life because you will eventually complete it. This isn't inherently bad, but it's not what I'm looking for I think. That said, I love the narrative working there, and hope it doesn't fumble it, as I expect I will beat it..
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Mar 9, 2021 20:11
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Serephina posted:Not even roguelikes are infinitely replayable; once you've gotten good enough to consistently beat a title in a myriad of ways the game loses its appeal and there's no shame in moving on, you've "beaten" it. extremely glad I suck at roguelikes tbh
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Mar 9, 2021 20:12
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You know what I mean though. Procedural generation is inferior to (competently) hand-crafted content and has to make up for it by making replaying a game/sections of a game more compelling. If the game is just a quick run-through-and-done it would almost always be better without the procedural generation.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:12
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Honestly my hot take would be that Loop Hero isn't even a roguelike, it's got procedural generation sure but that alone doesn't make it a roguelike any more than Deep Rock Galactic is.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:16
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SettingSun posted:Streamers *are* heavy marketing. Every streamer I watch has/is playing it and that is how I got turned onto it. But earned media =\= marketing being spent. If streamers pick it up because they are interested, I think that’s different than if they are all sponsored. The former means the game has to be good to start the marketing snowball, the latter just means there publisher has to be willing to spend money. Phigs posted:You know what I mean though. Procedural generation is inferior to (competently) hand-crafted content and has to make up for it by making replaying a game/sections of a game more compelling. If the game is just a quick run-through-and-done it would almost always be better without the procedural generation. I think this is a fair point in general (which I take it is how you mean it), but thinking about Loop Hero’s procedural generation it is pretty much just the route that the loop takes. Maybe there would be a set of handcrafted routes for the loop which would be cooler (I can definitely see interesting challenge maps which come from a combo of layout + the class/deck you are given), but I am not sure there are 20-30 hours worth of handcrafted loops like that which would add too much to the game.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:24
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Phigs posted:You know what I mean though. Procedural generation is inferior to (competently) hand-crafted content and has to make up for it by making replaying a game/sections of a game more compelling. If the game is just a quick run-through-and-done it would almost always be better without the procedural generation. Sometimes I fantasise about what games might have looked like if big game devs had leaned into procedural generation tech way earlier. Where studios could focus on all the big handcrafted setpieces and zones and let all the guff in between manage itself.
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Mar 9, 2021 20:25
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Loop Hero is actually Skyward Collapse as an RPG. Also it's actually good, unlike Skyward Collapse, which is very Arcen Games.
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