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Steranko makes you pay for his autograph (not great but understandable) even on prints you purchase directly from him (supremely rear end in a top hat move). Jin Wicked is correct that he's living 40 years in the past. He absolutely has chihuahua syndrome over his height too. I used to follow him on twitter but after he went on a long dumb tirade about how everyone should vote trump in 2016, I unfollowed him and honestly, had mostly forgotten he was still alive until this popped back up in my feed today. He's incredibly influential and has led a great life but rather than continuing to live a great life, he's decided to live in the past and surround himself with people that let him continue to live in the past. He's a sad old man who's gonna end up tainting his great legacy by refusing to read the room.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:25
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Madkal posted:Sterenko led a very interesting life being an escape artist before becoming a very influential artist. That being said he is very much living on the memory of his past glories from.......40 years ago. I will never say that he wasn't influential and that his stuff isn't still great to look at though, but he is just pretty much a successful white male boomer at this stage. No doubt he's a talented guy. I bought a print from him and, at his handler's suggestion, asked to hear the story about it. But all the proclamations of "living legend" reminded me very much of Trump's nonsense. This was at SDCC, where several hot newcomers, and old-timers who have managed to stay more active/relevant, had massive crowds around their booths and/or long lines almost the entire time the floor was open. I never saw more than a few people at Steranko's booth any time I passed. The juxtaposition just made his bragging look kind of sad. If "old racist comics grandpa" overtakes his image of "legendary comic artist," those appearances and bookings he relies on are going to dry up. A lot of the older white men that agree with him or don't care will still buy/trade his books, but they're a shrinking demographic at conventions. I always wonder about people who, at the very least, aren't observant enough to feel which way the wind is blowing and keep their hateful beliefs/opinions to themselves. Edit: Saw this after I hit submit. RevKrule posted:Steranko makes you pay for his autograph (not great but understandable) even on prints you purchase directly from him (supremely rear end in a top hat move). Don't hold me to it, but IIRC the print I bought was $20 and then it was another $20 to have it signed. Jin Wicked fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 22:39
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Yeah Steranko was pretty clearly a scumbag when I met him, like, 10 years ago at Heroescon. Hit on my 19-yo gf (note I was also 19 at the time) while mostly ignoring me, and looked Orange before Trump made that popular. You had to pay him for basically any interaction. Talented scumbag, though.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:46
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Your experience reminds me of seeing Neal Adams at a con. Had the biggest booth out of any of the artists, with signs everywhere about the living legend and all. The first time I saw him at a con he didn't charge for a signature (as long as you bought something from his booth, if you brought something else I think he would charge) and then at later cons I think he would charge regardless if you bought something from his booth or not. I kind of wish Steranko went the same way as Adams and just found some weird conspiracy theory (that I don't think is racist - please don't tell me it's racist) to obsess over instead of becoming a chud. Also I am assuming Adams isn't a chud and just likes weird conspiracy theories.
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Mar 8, 2021 22:49
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My favorite Steranko factoid was that they hired him to do some concept art for Raiders Of The Lost Ark (the same way Ralph McQuarrie was hired to do concept art for Star Wars). Before the main character was cast or even named, Lucas gave Steranko some notes and asked him to whip up some portrayals.    Nailed it. (from https://www.slashfilm.com/original-indiana-jones-concept-art-jim-steranko/ )
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Mar 8, 2021 22:52
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Yeah those are incredible no doubt
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Mar 8, 2021 23:01
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Madkal posted:I kind of wish Steranko went the same way as Adams and just found some weird conspiracy theory (that I don't think is racist - please don't tell me it's racist) to obsess over instead of becoming a chud. Also I am assuming Adams isn't a chud and just likes weird conspiracy theories. What a blast from the past. I used to listen to C2CAM regularly, and had forgotten about the expanding/hollow Earth stuff. Adams does not appear to be a chud, from a quick Google search. The top result for "neal adams politics" is a piece about Adams saying, "Donald Trump has made me ashamed to be white," from one of the better-known Comicsgate "news" blogs. Conrad_Birdie posted:You had to pay him for basically any interaction. The hallmark of someone completely full of themselves, or starving. (Sometimes both.) Jin Wicked fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Mar 8, 2021 |
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Mar 8, 2021 23:15
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Madkal posted:I kind of wish Steranko went the same way as Adams and just found some weird conspiracy theory (that I don't think is racist - please don't tell me it's racist) to obsess over instead of becoming a chud. Also I am assuming Adams isn't a chud and just likes weird conspiracy theories. A lot of the especially zany conspiracy theories wind up at white supremacy if you pull at the threads a little bit. However, since Adams seems to be the only person who believes his expanding/shrinking earth theory, I suspect it was just born out of some goofy 70s environmental/overpopulation fears rather than linking back to something like freaky biblical interpretations or Nazi mysticism. There's no group around it, no precedent, just one guy with weird ideas he can't let go of.
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Mar 8, 2021 23:34
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Jin Wicked posted:Like if Drakkar Noir was a person. I am impressed by this simile.
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Mar 8, 2021 23:48
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As long as it's not racist and it doesn't matter if it's true or not, everyone is allowed to believe one looney conspiracy theory. You wanna believe the Earth is flat? Knock yourself out. You wanna think that the moon landing was fake? Great. Personally, I believe the CIA killed Kennedy using psychics they found during their investigations of ESP. Literal magic bullet. I call it the Chappelle Theory.
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Mar 8, 2021 23:51
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Random Stranger posted:A lot of the especially zany conspiracy theories wind up at white supremacy if you pull at the threads a little bit. However, since Adams seems to be the only person who believes his expanding/shrinking earth theory, I suspect it was just born out of some goofy 70s environmental/overpopulation fears rather than linking back to something like freaky biblical interpretations or Nazi mysticism. There's no group around it, no precedent, just one guy with weird ideas he can't let go of. Now that I think of it, I am kind of surprised Hollow Earth hasn't crossed over or mutated its way somehow into the Flat Earther movement, which has more connection to anti-vaxx and other noxious ideas. I miss the days of benign crackpots like the ZetaTalk woman, or someone thinking they could telepathically talk to Bigfoots. (Bigfeet?) It seems like 9/11 is when even the relatively harmless conspiracies started becoming toxic. Though the rise of right-wing radio polluting shows like C2CAM probably has a lot to do with it, too. Wanderer posted:I am impressed by this simile. Thank you, always nice to feel appreciated. 
Jin Wicked fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 00:32
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Jin Wicked posted:Now that I think of it, I am kind of surprised Hollow Earth hasn't crossed over or mutated its way somehow into the Flat Earther movement,
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Mar 9, 2021 00:40
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Vince MechMahon posted:As long as it's not racist and it doesn't matter if it's true or not, everyone is allowed to believe one looney conspiracy theory. You wanna believe the Earth is flat? Knock yourself out. You wanna think that the moon landing was fake? Great. Personally, I believe the CIA killed Kennedy using psychics they found during their investigations of ESP. Literal magic bullet. I call it the Chappelle Theory. Flat earth is directly tied to racism as it's part of Christian dominionism. And a lot of the large scale conspiracy theories like moon landing and JFK assassination have gotten wrapped up in antisemitism. These aren't harmless things to believe.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:13
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Random Stranger posted:Flat earth is directly tied to racism as it's part of Christian dominionism. And a lot of the large scale conspiracy theories like moon landing and JFK assassination have gotten wrapped up in antisemitism. These aren't harmless things to believe. Yes, there's a fair bit of scholarship on how cross-pollination functions in conspiracy circles. I remember reading a bit by Michael Barkun about how in the late 80s and early 90s white nationalist groups would advertise in the back of David Icke adjacent publications because the mindset was already there, that mentality of epistemological victimhood and "marginalized knowledge."
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Mar 9, 2021 01:16
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How Wonderful! posted:Yes, there's a fair bit of scholarship on how cross-pollination functions in conspiracy circles. I remember reading a bit by Michael Barkun about how in the late 80s and early 90s white nationalist groups would advertise in the back of David Icke adjacent publications because the mindset was already there, that mentality of epistemological victimhood and "marginalized knowledge."
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Mar 9, 2021 01:20
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Random Stranger posted:Flat earth is directly tied to racism as it's part of Christian dominionism. And a lot of the large scale conspiracy theories like moon landing and JFK assassination have gotten wrapped up in antisemitism. These aren't harmless things to believe. Sure but if you don't believe the bad parts then you're fine.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:21
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FMguru posted:I thought a lot of the Icke stuff was just anti-semitism but coded so that you could talk about the cabals of "Lizard People" who run the international banks and pull the puppet strings and get people nodding their heads in a way that you couldn't just say "Jews". Everyone knows what's really being said, but you have this plausible deniability ("Ha ha ha, who could ever take anything about immortal reptoid masters seriously, get out of town") if someone objects. Yes and no. It does map on very neatly to antisemitic tropes, especially the Protocols of the Elders of Zion poo poo, so if you buy fully into Icke it is only a little hop skip and jump away. However 30 years ago many people getting into Icke stuff were not already there-- they were drawn in via other spheres of ufo culture. It's like a little transitive sequence-- it's easy to believe in lizard people ruling the earth if you already believed in little grey people manipulating the earth, and it was easier to believe that evil Jews ruled the world if you already believed that the world was being ruled by evil somethings masquerading as "real" people. I really recommend Michael Barkun's 2001 A Culture of Conspiracy, I think he does a great job of outlining how the interconnective tissue between conspiracy beliefs functions and how they wind up being manipulated. It's a bit old but a lot of it is still useful, may more useful imo than some of the more myopically short-term focused and vaguely ahistorical works on conspiracy thinking that have popped up since 2016. If you want something more recent but still scholarly I've liked stuff by Mari-Liis Maddisson, Jaron Harambam, Brenda Dezler, Katharina Thalmann, and Todor Hristov, who all did stuff for a recent Routledge monograph series.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:36
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How Wonderful! posted:Yes and no. It does map on very neatly to antisemitic tropes, especially the Protocols of the Elders of Zion poo poo, so if you buy fully into Icke it is only a little hop skip and jump away. However 30 years ago many people getting into Icke stuff were not already there-- they were drawn in via other spheres of ufo culture. It's like a little transitive sequence-- it's easy to believe in lizard people ruling the earth if you already believed in little grey people manipulating the earth, and it was easier to believe that evil Jews ruled the world if you already believed that the world was being ruled by evil somethings masquerading as "real" people.
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Mar 9, 2021 01:40
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FMguru posted:I thought a lot of the Icke stuff was just anti-semitism but coded so that you could talk about the cabals of "Lizard People" who run the international banks and pull the puppet strings and get people nodding their heads in a way that you couldn't just say "Jews". Everyone knows what's really being said, but you have this plausible deniability ("Ha ha ha, who could ever take anything about immortal reptoid masters seriously, get out of town") if someone objects. My impression is that it's a bit more subtle than that. There are plenty of people who actually believe in the Lizard Alien Overlords from Space, but most of Icke's work is basically repackaged anti-Semitic propaganda. It is up for debate how much of his own nonsense he actually believes, or his intention. There's a Flat Earth doc on Netflix ("Behind the Curve," it's a hoot, give it a watch) and you can see some of the overlap they have with more dangerous conspiracy movements. They also go all-in on science denial, which affects other areas like acknowledgement of climate change. The problem is the cumulative effect all these conspiracies have. It warps peoples' thinking and makes them a lot easier to manipulate by bad actors. So even if they aren't personally anti-Semitic, they'll go along with the ideas. I have an ex-friend/colleague (relatively unknown indie comics guy) who was heavily into stuff like the moon landing being fake, government did 9/11, etc. He did not like how things were going for him at the time, and he spun up his own conspiracy theory about how I was basically plotting against him, consumed with jealously, and pulling all these strings to deny him the special treatment he felt he deserved. Proceeded to not speak to me for months, do/say who knows what behind my back, then block me everywhere one day out of the blue. I have never met someone who believed in these far-out conspiracies that wasn't... unwell. Edit: How Wonderful! beat me to the David Icke stuff and did a much better job. Jin Wicked fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 01:43
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Reminds me of my old roommate. He was big into the existence of bigfoot and read blogs and whatnot about bigfoot. Cool. Whatever. No problems with that. But when he wasn't reading blogs about bigfoot he was reading blogs about how 9/11 was an inside job. It felt like people who believe one thing are way more open to believe a whole range of things, which kind of sucks. I just want there to be people who believe in aliens and not about how they taught egyptians to build pyramids or some such bullshit.
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Mar 9, 2021 02:44
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I listened to a very drunk veteran Marine tell me that the Moon doesn't exist.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:14
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Madkal posted:Reminds me of my old roommate. He was big into the existence of bigfoot and read blogs and whatnot about bigfoot. Cool. Whatever. No problems with that. But when he wasn't reading blogs about bigfoot he was reading blogs about how 9/11 was an inside job. The problem is that both the "flat earth and bigfoot" types of conspiracy theory and the "jews and george soros" type of conspiracy theory are borne of a desire for there to be a single tangible cause of the many problems in the world. Ultimately they're just an attempt to feel safe in the knowledge that you know what's really going on, and you know the one thing that is making the world so scary and depressing, and that makes you safer. The contents of the conspiracy theory are more or less irrelevant, which means that there's not going to be any separation between bigfoot people and jew cabal people other than happenstance. That's just what I think, though. I'm not a psychologist or anything.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:22
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The bigger reason that conspiracies theories have a very high rate of slippage and exchange between one another-- at least from what I've read, although scholarship on this seems to be pretty consistent for the past few decades-- is that all of them are predicated on the idea that "expert knowledge" is willfully deceiving you. If you truly believe that the earth is flat, all of the evidence counter doesn't matter; the scientists and cartographers and everyone else who say the earth is round are either ignorant or actively and malignly telling a grand lie. If you internalize that, it becomes easier to believe that other experts are lying or incorrect. You can see this in action every day on right-wing news outlets like Fox or OANN-- how authority in scientific and cultural mainsteam sources of authoritative knowledge is subverted so that counter-narratives become the de facto "correct." If you don't believe scientists are telling the truth that the earth is round, why would you believe them that the earth is warming up? If the government faked a moon landing, why not a school shooting?
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Mar 9, 2021 03:33
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One reason I heard that Qanon is so good at spreading is that it's basically an ARG with no "right" answer, so everyone who falls for it does so because they put in the work to figure out what is "really going on". There needs to be drastically more work to dissuade someone of an option they worked hard to cultivate on their own.
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Mar 9, 2021 03:50
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One thing with conspiracy theories is it is nigh impossible to disprove it because any proof to the contrary can be dismissed as a lie. If you bring up experts, well they are in on the big lie. Anything that disproves the conspiracy is just people protecting the lie.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:00
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Madkal posted:One thing with conspiracy theories is it is nigh impossible to disprove it because any proof to the contrary can be dismissed as a lie. If you bring up experts, well they are in on the big lie. Anything that disproves the conspiracy is just people protecting the lie. I have a friend that is a climate change denier, and the last time I tried to talk to him about it, he justified it with, "I believe in facts and science, but no one else does anymore." Earth is gonna burn because some people need to feel like they're the special ones who really know what's going on. It's depressing af.
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Mar 9, 2021 04:09
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Uthor posted:One reason I heard that Qanon is so good at spreading is that it's basically an ARG with no "right" answer, so everyone who falls for it does so because they put in the work to figure out what is "really going on". There needs to be drastically more work to dissuade someone of an option they worked hard to cultivate on their own. I feel like Qanon took a lot of aspects of TV/movie theorizing and turned it into a terrible reality. You have a lot of the same kind of logic going into qclock analysis that you see from people analyzing the MCU or even going back to poo poo like Lost and it made it more effective at taking root. It's one of the reasons I've tried really hard to stay away from theorizing about poo poo like Wandavision because that's not a part of my brain I need active and craving for more attention.
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Mar 9, 2021 06:32
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Oh my goodness. It all started with Batman 66 solving riddles.
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Mar 9, 2021 09:35
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A huge aspect of flat Earth conspiracy theories is anti-Semitism. The Netflix docu actually omits a lot of that to make the subjects more palatable/likeable but the book the one guy has full of post it notes that he bases everything on is full of naked anti-Semitism. The reason for the conspiracy, NASA manning the giant ice wall with elite stormtroopers, and keeping every pilot in the conspiracy is because of the Jews and they're doing it for Satanic reasons. Most conspiracy theory stuff has been stained with anti-Semitism and racism from the start due to most the proponents and creators of the theories being racist or actual fascists. A lot of UFO contactee stuff is born out of the I AM and Theosophy movements, which are incredibly racist in a "root races" type of way, which theosophy is the originator of. There's a reason the first aliens encountered were blonde haired, blue eyed enlightened masters. David Icke is genuinely mentally ill and when he talks about lizard people, he definitely means lizard people. He very publicly and over time had a series of psychotic breaks on TV, which people mostly laughed at, where he said he was the son of God and other stuff you'd hear someone yelling on a street corner. People who read his books and espouse his theories, not as much unless there's substantial evidence like Icke that they're severely mentally ill. I think the greatest irony of anti-Semites working within the comics industry is that most the iconic characters in comics were created by Jews, who were often forced into the comics industry due to the anti-Semitism of American society at that time.
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Mar 9, 2021 15:51
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Here's a good documentary on Flat Earth and it's slip into Q BS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44 It also totally disproves flat earth in like 12 minutes.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:27
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The shot where he dropped the camera and the tree disappears made my jaw drop. It was so pretty and simple.
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Mar 9, 2021 17:48
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Uthor posted:The shot where he dropped the camera and the tree disappears made my jaw drop. It was so pretty and simple. I watched it a while ago and while nothing in it was new to anyone tapped into those circles (even the twist), the demonstration of the curvature of the earth was beautiful.
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Mar 9, 2021 18:34
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Anora posted:It also totally disproves flat earth in like 12 minutes. Why does it take so long?
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Mar 9, 2021 19:13
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X-O posted:Why does it take so long? Youtube algorithm.
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Mar 9, 2021 19:30
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It's because it's not about disproving flat earth theory (as the video points out that's absolutely pointless you can't disprove flat earth theory to anyone who legitimately believes in it) but about conspiracy theories and how everything is circling back to Qanon
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Mar 9, 2021 23:09
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X-O posted:Why does it take so long? It's mostly to show off a really, really nice looking Canadian lake.
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Mar 10, 2021 04:11
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I can do some effort on fringe beliefs, cultures and conspiracy theories, sometime, when my current five effortpost projects are done
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Mar 10, 2021 06:01
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X-O posted:Why does it take so long? two reasons 1) To scientifically provide proof, as he explains in the video, which you should watch. 2) Showmanship Part of the reason why the video is so long is because, while it is there to disprove Flat Earth, it's also there to explain why Flat Earth is in a way that's entertaining. I mean most Super Hero stories could be like "Bad guy does crime, good guy fights them and wins/loses" but the good ones are the ones that flesh out the characters. And Dan did that, the characters are the Earth's curves and Flat Earthers.
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Mar 10, 2021 13:55
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idk what the context of this is https://twitter.com/joffeorama/status/1369727293715705856
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Mar 10, 2021 20:19
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fritz posted:idk what the context of this is There was an issue of Immortal Hulk with art by, I think, a Brazilian artists who's tweeted support of Bolsonaro, I might have the specific nationality/flavor of fascism wrong though.
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Mar 10, 2021 20:23
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