Valheim - Forged in Valhalla by the hammer of Thor

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Sir Sidney Poitier: Aug 14, 2006; My favourite actor

A few questions on swamps:

- I've been using the method of raising the ground to avoid leeches and it's great. I've been using the hoe but it doesn't always seem to be able to raise the ground above water level - what affects this?

- What's the best way to mark a path to follow - should I be building workbenches all along or something?

- Is there a way to stop oozes hopping over my log fence?

This game is great, I totally underestimated it.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:09

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# ? May 29, 2024 17:11

Jarmak: Jan 24, 2005

Gort posted:

I'm wondering if the "loss value" is listed in number of pieces, so a horizontal span of one piece of stone will fall apart instantly (loss value 1), while you can stack nine pieces of core wood vertically? (loss value 0.1)

Edit: Re-reading it I'm more baffled than before

It's the coefficient of loss.

So if you're only operating in one dimension your support is f(X) = S(1-L)^x, where S is support, L is loss value and X is the distance. In other words it's the percentage of support you lose (1 = 100%)

Did I miss what units the distance are in?

If I'm understanding it correctly though it's actually calculated as a vector so it would actually be f(X, Y) = S(1 - Lx) ^ X + S( 1 - Ly ) ^ Y, where X is the horizontal component and Y is the vertical component of the distance vector.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:11

xzzy: Mar 5, 2009

Sir Sidney Poitier posted:

- I've been using the method of raising the ground to avoid leeches and it's great. I've been using the hoe but it doesn't always seem to be able to raise the ground above water level - what affects this?

It's a quirk of their terrain system, the only solution is to raise the ground there. If you're trying to flatten around the area around your base you might notice weird bumps that never flatten out, the only solution is the pickaxe. Same general idea. '

I don't worry about low spots in my swamp path, as long as it's not deep enough that you start swimming you can run right by any leeches in the area.

quote:

- What's the best way to mark a path to follow - should I be building workbenches all along or something?

I use campfires, don't need a workbench to build them and even when they aren't lit they have some orange glow that makes them relatively easy to pick out.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:20

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Assuming your starter base is near the spawn stones, you're always going to want SOMETHING thing stocked with food and supplies (or at least a portal to some place that does) in case you die without a spawn point set, or just as a nice place for anyone joining your game to get some food and basic equipment and see something that looks nice. And you can always choose to expand it later - depending on where it is, it could be a useful base of operations for a long time.

But it probably won't be your main base, which is either someplace well located for functional reasons, or some place that's really nice for aesthetic reasons. (My group is currently building a series of connected treehouses on top of the pine trees in the black forest as our primary base, for example)

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:24

parasyte: Aug 13, 2003; Nobody wants to die except the suicides. They're no fun.

Gort posted:

I'm wondering if the "loss value" is listed in number of pieces, so a horizontal span of one piece of stone will fall apart instantly (loss value 1), while you can stack nine pieces of core wood vertically? (loss value 0.1)

Edit: Re-reading it I'm more baffled than before

It's in game units, which don't seem to be meters for this at least. There's also something else going on (else stone should be able to be way taller than wood, but it can't). I'm not up to speed on vector math but it looks like it gets the center of mass (?) of the new piece with GetCOM(), then it gets the distance between that and the existing piece it's checking against and adds 0.1, and gets the maximum of 0 or the existing support - (horizontalLoss * that distance * existing support).

Then, if the y height of the support being checked against is less than the y height of the new piece + 0.05, it will get the direction of the piece. If the piece's direction is below the current piece, it'll calculate the arccosine of 1-(y direction of vector normalized to 1), divided by pi/2. Then it'll interpolate between the horizontal and vertical values by the result of that calculation. Finally, it again takes the parent support and subtracts that result * the vector distance +0.1f * parent support, and stores the maximum of either this calculation, or the one from the above paragraph. It also adds the support point and the vertical loss amount (only) to a couple of lists for later, and then loops around to the next potential support point. Replace 0 in the above paragraph with the max of the calculations from the two paragraphs.

Then when it's done with that, it goes through and averages every pair of support points where the second paragraph calculation happened and they are more than 100 degrees apart in the xz plane, and if any of those averages is greater than the greatest support previously calculated, that is used instead.

The thing I don't know is what the cOM offset is - it's stored in the object but default initialized to 0, and I suspect that's loaded from the piece data. Anyway GetCOM gets the new piece's transform position + (transform rotation * comOffset). Horizontal distance is calculated based on that COM and only the transform.position of the supporting piece, but vertical distance is based off the COM of both pieces (so if comOffset isn't 0 that calculation will differ).

TLDR is that it is very distance based and it does use those values as those are all from GetMaterialProperties(), but something is missing that keeps everything from completely making sense.

Jarmak posted:

It's the coefficient of loss.

So if you're only operating in one dimension your support is f(X) = S(1-L)^x, where S is support, L is loss value and X is the distance. In other words it's the percentage of support you lose (1 = 100%)

Did I miss what units the distance are in?

If I'm understanding it correctly though it's actually calculated as a vector so it would actually be f(X, Y) = S(1 - Lx) ^ X + S( 1 - Ly ) ^ Y, where X is the horizontal component and Y is the vertical component of the distance vector.

The code uses this:

code:

float distance = Vector3.Distance(cOM, componentInParent.transform.position) + 0.1f;
float support = componentInParent.GetSupport();
a = Mathf.Max(a, support - horizontalLoss * distance * support);

The first time through a is 0.
Then we get this:

code:

Vector3 vector = FindSupportPoint(cOM, componentInParent, collider);
if (vector.y < cOM.y + 0.05f)
{
	Vector3 normalized = (vector - cOM).normalized;
	if (normalized.y < 0f)
	{
		float t = Mathf.Acos(1f - Mathf.Abs(normalized.y)) / ((float)Math.PI / 2f);
		float lossFactor = Mathf.Lerp(horizontalLoss, verticalLoss, t);
		float b = support - lossFactor * distance * support;
		a = Mathf.Max(a, b);
	}
[...]
}

After that is the weird loop/average for wide angles that I'm not 100% sure what it gains from but is in there for a reason.

parasyte fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 11, 2021

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:26

Otacon: Aug 13, 2002

Whoever suggested marking Raspberry and Blueberry spawns on the map is a legend. I've now got a nice circuit worked out that gets me about a full stack of both in ~15-20 minutes along with some thistle too. I had no idea they respawned in the same spots!

# ? Mar 11, 2021 20:43

LLSix: Jan 20, 2010; The real power behind countless overlords

How long do berries (and mushrooms!) take to respawn? I've been marking my berry spawns recently but haven't noticed any respawns yet.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:11

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

I've heard thistles are on a 4 hour (real time) respawn, possibly that?

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:25

Otacon: Aug 13, 2002

LLSix posted:

How long do berries (and mushrooms!) take to respawn? I've been marking my berry spawns recently but haven't noticed any respawns yet.

I can't tell yet - it's a fairly well used dedicated server and my buddies play while I'm at work. I've been berry hunting once a night.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:40

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Ugh. Just learned about Dragon eggs, I've nearly built everything silver I meant to build and I've never even seen one.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:41

Inzombiac: Mar 19, 2007; PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY

genericnick posted:

Ugh. Just learned about Dragon eggs, I've nearly built everything silver I meant to build and I've never even seen one.

I found one early, then none for like 10 hours and then TONS of them showed up.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:46

ChristsDickWorship: Dec 7, 2004; Annihilate your demons

4hrs sounds about right to me, I have a base in single-player where I never terraformed the front stoop and 7-10 in-game days is about how often I would have guessed for the mushroom spawns.

But I think I remember reading it might be glitched and they should respawn more often than they do? Not sure how true/common that is.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:46

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

Just keep crawling over mountains, they're hard to miss and some places are littered with heaps of em. Hell, check near where your boss spawns if you've found a rune for that, our boss mountain had 4 in close proximity.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 21:47

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Do the dragon egg nests do anything? I have been tempted to mine one to see if I get what it looks like it's made of but not sure if they have any use afterwards.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:00

dialhforhero: Apr 3, 2008; Am I 🧑‍🏫 out of touch🤔? No🧐, it's the children👶 who are wrong🤷🏼‍♂️

Azhais posted:

Not mine

The most insane loss I have ever seem

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:04

The Protagonist: Jun 29, 2009; The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.

OwlFancier posted:

Do the dragon egg nests do anything? I have been tempted to mine one to see if I get what it looks like it's made of but not sure if they have any use afterwards.

I picked at one a fair bit after emptying it and it seems like an unbreakable static object

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:12

Nighthand: Nov 4, 2009; what horror the gas

I kinda lost some steam in this game, and it's partially because both of my play groups have mostly insisted on keeping one centralized base in the Meadows (near spawn), so the trek to haul ores back is insanely tedious, especially when trying to gear out 5+ people.

I kind of wish Moder was earlier in the progression, maybe third instead of fourth, just to get the Moder Boat earlier. The biggest source of frustration is just how it feels inevitable that every time we have a long sailing journey to do, 95% of it will be against the wind.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:15

Bioshuffle: Feb 10, 2011; No good deed goes unpunished

Nighthand posted:

I kinda lost some steam in this game

Just out of curiosity about the longevity of this game before I get burnt out, how many hours have all of you put in to this game? Are you getting burnt out?

I've already put in like 10+ hours, but I'm not even found the second boss yet.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:26

Inzombiac: Mar 19, 2007; PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY

Bioshuffle posted:

Just out of curiosity about the longevity of this game before I get burnt out, how many hours have all of you put in to this game? Are you getting burnt out?

I've already put in like 10+ hours, but I'm not even found the second boss yet.

I'm 80 hours in, second character, gearing up for the fourth boss.

I get essentially infinite joy from games like this because I can just enter debug mode and play viking LEGO. I like all aspects of the game but mostly care about designing cool buildings.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:30

Broken Cog: Dec 29, 2009; We're all friends here

Bioshuffle posted:

Just out of curiosity about the longevity of this game before I get burnt out, how many hours have all of you put in to this game? Are you getting burnt out?

I've already put in like 10+ hours, but I'm not even found the second boss yet.

Steam says I have about 75 hours. Mostly solo, but maybe 10-15 with some friends. Beat all the current content, and waiting for content patches now.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:31

Ambaire: Sep 4, 2009; by Shine; Oven Wrangler

OwlFancier posted:

Do the dragon egg nests do anything? I have been tempted to mine one to see if I get what it looks like it's made of but not sure if they have any use afterwards.

I'm 99% sure that the eggs respawn. I got one from a place early in a save, then randomly wandered past a few dozen hours later and there was another.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:36

Taffer: Oct 15, 2010

They do respawn, I have no idea what the timeline is for that though. Probably 4 hours same as plants I'd guess.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:40

Pill Clinton: Jun 4, 2006; Feast for thought

Rotten Red Rod posted:

Are you putting torches & sconces around your base? In addition to making your base look nice, they prevent spawns as well. Here's a list of things that prevent spawning: https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Spawns

In the 3 bases I've built I disconnected the dock from the main house and have a gate + wall separating them, as well as built stake walls surrounding the dock itself underwater. It's seemed to prevent any issues so far, and my current base is in the plains.

Lots of theories about what can stop spawns. I can tell you for sure that workbenches do not stop all spawns, same thing for many other items listed on the wiki. I have a hotspot of greydwarves and deers right outside of my base. Putting multiple workbenches down did nothing. I also tried terraforming, tips from a youtube video, which also did not work. What finally stopped/greatly reduced the spawn is a turnip farm. Putting a fence around that hotspot did nothing until I planted it full of turnips. I am keeping a close eye on that spot right now.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:42

causticBeet: Mar 2, 2010; BIG VINCE COMIN FOR YOU

Nighthand posted:

I kinda lost some steam in this game, and it's partially because both of my play groups have mostly insisted on keeping one centralized base in the Meadows (near spawn), so the trek to haul ores back is insanely tedious, especially when trying to gear out 5+ people.

I kind of wish Moder was earlier in the progression, maybe third instead of fourth, just to get the Moder Boat earlier. The biggest source of frustration is just how it feels inevitable that every time we have a long sailing journey to do, 95% of it will be against the wind.

I like keeping a �main� meadows base, and it�s really useful for large scale storage and production of anything that can get portaled, but you�re doing yourself a huge disservice if you�re not setting up local crafting/forging/smelting operations.

Haul out some copper, bronze, and iron when you first put it down so you can build crafting tables plus upgrades, then just upgrade and build ore-items there. It doesn�t need to be some huge base, most of our crafting outposts are literally just a portal, a few chests, crafting table forge + upgrades, and smelter surrounded by log walls.

As frustrating as it was finding good iron sources, it forced us to take this approach and it has turned out to be super useful now that we�re getting into silver. There are plenty of plains nearby too, so I expect we will be able to continue their usage through future biomes.

Inzombiac posted:

I'm 80 hours in, second character, gearing up for the fourth boss.

I get essentially infinite joy from games like this because I can just enter debug mode and play viking LEGO. I like all aspects of the game but mostly care about designing cool buildings.

This has been my approach for sure. Wander around for a bit until I get bored of that. Do maintenance/cooking/farming/gathering for a bit until I get bored of that. Spend some time building some cool house or tower or whatever, and by this time I�m usually ready to go explore poo poo and start the loop over again.

causticBeet fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 11, 2021

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:51

Retrowave Joe: Jul 20, 2001

Bioshuffle posted:

Just out of curiosity about the longevity of this game before I get burnt out, how many hours have all of you put in to this game? Are you getting burnt out?

I've already put in like 10+ hours, but I'm not even found the second boss yet.

I have 182 hours in, haven�t beaten the fifth boss. I absolutely love the building and general meadows vibes.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:55

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

causticBeet posted:

I like keeping a �main� meadows base, and it�s really useful for large scale storage and production of anything that can get portaled, but you�re doing yourself a huge disservice if you�re not setting up local crafting/forging/smelting operations.

Haul out some copper, bronze, and iron when you first put it down so you can build crafting tables plus upgrades, then just upgrade and build ore-items there. It doesn�t need to be some huge base, most of our crafting outposts are literally just a portal, a few chests, crafting table forge + upgrades, and smelter surrounded by log walls.

As frustrating as it was finding good iron sources, it forced us to take this approach and it has turned out to be super useful now that we�re getting into silver. There are plenty of plains nearby too, so I expect we will be able to continue their usage through future biomes.

This has been my approach for sure. Wander around for a bit until I get bored of that. Do maintenance/cooking/farming/gathering for a bit until I get bored of that. Spend some time building some cool house or tower or whatever, and by this time I�m usually ready to go explore poo poo and start the loop over again.

This. Also -so far- don't have the "we have to invest in this outpost" mentality. If you are done with this place, pack it all up (hammer, middle mouse button ...!) and literally set up shop somewhere else. Forged gear has no teleport restrictions, as do the materials for the shop do not.

Have I mentioned I hate sailing stuff around?

# ? Mar 11, 2021 22:58

Valtonen: May 13, 2014; Tanks still suck but you don't gotta hand it to the Axis either.

If you make your first meadow base at seashore, it�s likely useful the whole game. We�re about to take in boss 4 and our meadows base is still our main farmland/cookhouse/brewery/home/warehouse. The building itself has been rebuilt twice though, first an expansion then stone-based rebuild.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:00

verbal enema: May 23, 2009; onlymarfans.com

Game needs waterfalls

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:01

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

Valtonen posted:

If you make your first meadow base at seashore, it�s likely useful the whole game. We�re about to take in boss 4 and our meadows base is still our main farmland/cookhouse/brewery/home/warehouse. The building itself has been rebuilt twice though, first an expansion then stone-based rebuild.

Yeah we are at rebuild #3 and by the looks of it the people involved want to create their own goon biome.

Goonheim1 was sacked, Goonheim2 is turning into the harbor for Goonheim3 as far as I can tell.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:03

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

verbal enema posted:

Game needs waterfalls

For that we need true rivers. But I want drawbridges!

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:04

verbal enema: May 23, 2009; onlymarfans.com

dogboy posted:

For that we need true rivers. But I want drawbridges!

I would like to take a Karve down a river thatd be cool as hell

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:09

The Protagonist: Jun 29, 2009; The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.

Game needs a taunt/intimidate yell that draws aggro from dangerous enemies and makes greydwarves and boars n poo poo gently caress off

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:23

anatomi: Jan 31, 2015

It would be cool if you could use trophies to scare off mobs. Lemme cover my body with greydwarf eyes.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:30

verbal enema: May 23, 2009; onlymarfans.com

while my buddy was offline i decked out our craft area with all our trophies.

I threw the 30+ regular greydwarf trophies in the sea

Also Sea Serpent hunting is awesome and the one star is much longer than the no star. I can't wait to see the two star

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:32

Gort: Aug 18, 2003; Good day what ho cup of tea

Game really needs a pit you can throw sacrifices to Odin into, like eight million greydwarf eyes and resin

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:40

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

If you're having problems with pests in / around your base, honestly the best medicine I've found so far is just to tame some 0 star wolves and tell them to "stay" in the area. I have like 6-7 wolves scattered around my huge meadows base and they wreck everything that spawns inside, which means I don't have to have ugly rear end workbenches everywhere and I get free mats from the mobs they constantly kill. It's also just rad as hell to hear them out there dumpstering all those annoying rear end shamans and brutes. Best home defense IMO. They also don't aggro your other tamed animals, so I have a boar farm right in the middle and they never try to mess with it. Awesome game design.

Just make sure to keep a breeding pair somewhere safe in case a troll shows up and gets a lucky AoE shot on the ones protecting your poo poo.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:43

anatomi: Jan 31, 2015

You can also imprison them, like I did with the lone greydwarf that kept smashing my carrots.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:46

Woden: May 6, 2006

Taffer posted:

They do respawn, I have no idea what the timeline is for that though. Probably 4 hours same as plants I'd guess.

They take 8 hours to respawn, so it may be better to go find more rather than wait for them to respawn.

Pill Clinton posted:

Lots of theories about what can stop spawns. I can tell you for sure that workbenches do not stop all spawns, same thing for many other items listed on the wiki. I have a hotspot of greydwarves and deers right outside of my base. Putting multiple workbenches down did nothing. I also tried terraforming, tips from a youtube video, which also did not work. What finally stopped/greatly reduced the spawn is a turnip farm. Putting a fence around that hotspot did nothing until I planted it full of turnips. I am keeping a close eye on that spot right now.

I had a herd of loxes spawn in the middle of my farm which is surrounded by stone walls, after putting workbenches around it they haven't come back.

Making your base enemy proof is really hard when they just swim around stuff or mobs can just spawn in the middle of it anyway. I gave up for the most part and just replace workbenches and whatever else they break whenever I need to but maybe I should try out wards. They'll pulse when hit and they reduce the damage stuff takes, if mobs go after them more than workbenches they could be good.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:51

rarbatrol: Apr 17, 2011; Hurt//maim//kill.

FLIPADELPHIA posted:

If you're having problems with pests in / around your base, honestly the best medicine I've found so far is just to tame some 0 star wolves and tell them to "stay" in the area. I have like 6-7 wolves scattered around my huge meadows base and they wreck everything that spawns inside, which means I don't have to have ugly rear end workbenches everywhere and I get free mats from the mobs they constantly kill. It's also just rad as hell to hear them out there dumpstering all those annoying rear end shamans and brutes. Best home defense IMO. They also don't aggro your other tamed animals, so I have a boar farm right in the middle and they never try to mess with it. Awesome game design.

Just make sure to keep a breeding pair somewhere safe in case a troll shows up and gets a lucky AoE shot on the ones protecting your poo poo.

We did this on my group's server, and had them accidentally breeding on their own since they were getting enough deer and boar meat to be fed and happy. It worked great, until skeletons and fulings started spawning regularly.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:56

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# ? May 29, 2024 17:11

Inzombiac: Mar 19, 2007; PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY

Did you know that planted trees don't just mature while you're away/sleeping?
They have a realtime timer and if you're nearby you can watch them go ZOOP to full size.

# ? Mar 11, 2021 23:57

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