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Sodomy Hussein posted:Hence why this thread is mostly three posters strenuously nodding their heads in agreement ad infinitum while it is otherwise mostly dead, even though this is a serious issue. It's because most of what was needed to be said has been said (with multiple posters just in the last couple of pages saying the thread has been useful in re-calibrating their perspectives), and there's not a lot of people taking up the mantle of "actually Reade lacks credibility" or whatever would constitute the "opposing" position in this thread. I mean, there were a few, and they got the responses those positions merited so...  e.: thread has been good in outlining arguments, for me as well. not every thread needs to be moving at chat-speed.
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Mar 12, 2021 15:52
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I think that the two-thirds of voters who felt like their choices were a rapist or a rapist are mostly suckers who don't examine much very critically and would be utterly unwilling to do anything to rectify their ignorance whenever they get a choice. The point is to not give them a choice; we can collectively keep rubbing their noses in the evidence until they feel like they're being gangstalked. Be completely reasonable, calm, collected, and unyielding on the truth and they'll hate us, but they'll also eventually start to believe us. It's a slow process.
John_A_Tallon fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 15:54
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John_A_Tallon posted:I think that the two-thirds of voters who felt like their choices were a rapist or a rapist are mostly suckers who don't examine much very critically and would be utterly unwilling to do anything to rectify their ignorance whenever they get a choice. The point is to not give them a choice; keep rubbing their noses in the evidence until they feel like they're being gangstalked. Be completely reasonable, calm, collected, and unyielding on the truth and they'll hate you, but they'll also eventually start to believe you. It's a slow process. So your plan is to harass everyone until what 51% of the country writes in a third party? Because there were 2 choices for President on election day last year, yes the primary should of gone differently but election day it was either Trump or Biden.
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Mar 12, 2021 15:58
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Hence why this thread is mostly three posters strenuously nodding their heads in agreement ad infinitum while it is otherwise mostly dead, even though this is a serious issue. Maybe contribute something beyond this if you care that much about the thread? socialsecurity posted:So your plan is to harass everyone until what 51% of the country writes in a third party? Because there were 2 choices for President on election day last year, yes the primary should of gone differently but election day it was either Trump or Biden. Is it wrong to shame someone in my life who dismissed the assault and harassment allegations against Biden in the primaries? I didn't vote for Biden in the general, and I'll tell people why, but there's a big line IMO between doing this horrible calculus early on vs. later. The post that kicked this off was specifically talking about primaries. This thread already litigated the general. Insanite fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 15:59
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socialsecurity posted:So your plan is to harass everyone until what 51% of the country writes in a third party? Because there were 2 choices for President on election day last year, yes the primary should of gone differently but election day it was either Trump or Biden. Harassing people into going along to get along, telling them the version of reality you want them to believe, and crafting the narrative that fits the hyperreality we are all forced to live in in the age of always-connected 24 hour news cycles and social media, is exactly what the rapist apologists and powerful have done. The only antidote is the relentless truth.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:07
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I'm not really sure how you're supposed to fight rape culture if you're never allowed to tell someone that something they've thought or done isn't good.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:09
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John_A_Tallon posted:I think that the two-thirds of voters who felt like their choices were a rapist or a rapist are mostly suckers who don't examine much very critically and would be utterly unwilling to do anything to rectify their ignorance whenever they get a choice. The point is to not give them a choice; we can collectively keep rubbing their noses in the evidence until they feel like they're being gangstalked. Be completely reasonable, calm, collected, and unyielding on the truth and they'll hate us, but they'll also eventually start to believe us. It's a slow process. I'm glad you're here to spread the mind blowing statistic that nearly 2/3rd of the eligible voting population in the US are incapable of critically thinking because they had cast a vote for the Democratic or Republican nomination in the 2020 election  Please tell us, great wise one, are the people who could not vote in the general election because of some barricade but would have voted for Biden or Trump also incapable of critically thinking? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 12, 2021 16:15
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Kalit posted:I'm glad you're here to spread the mind blowing statistic that nearly 2/3rd of the eligible voting population in the US are incapable of critically thinking because they had cast a vote for the Democratic or Republican nomination in the 2020 election Good, good, you're right on track here. Keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better. You'll keep thinking about this and in a few weeks or months or however long it takes for the truth to percolate in, your opinion will change and you won't really be able to pinpoint how or why. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 12, 2021 16:24
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John_A_Tallon posted:Good, good, you're right on track here. Keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better. You'll keep thinking about this and in a few weeks or months or however long it takes for the truth to percolate in, your opinion will change and you won't really be able to pinpoint how or why. Sorry to blow your mind, but I didn't vote for Obama in 2008 or 2012 in the general election. I already know that the 2 party system is bullshit. But nice try.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:25
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Biden isn't the first rapist many or even most of them have voted for, to be fair.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:26
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Biden isn't the first rapist many or even most of them have voted for, to be fair. That's true, but Biden was the first post-MeToo presidential candidate that many people voted for.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:28
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Kalit posted:Sorry to blow your mind, but I didn't vote for Obama in 2008 or 2012 in the general election. I already know that the 2 party system is bullshit. But nice try. It's not really about you though? Or rather, it's not about you personally, but the entire population of American voters that are willing to let fear guide them. At least that's what I assumed you were talking about when you brought up your barricaded abstainer. If you're talking about voter suppression, well, that's not really the topic of this thread. Neither is restoring civic liberties to convicted felons, which would be the other possible interpretation. What can we do? We can tell the truth. Who needs to hear the truth? Anyone who fell for the lie. Who fell for the lie? Apparently most of the voting population of the USA.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:37
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John_A_Tallon posted:It's not really about you though? Or rather, it's not about you personally, but the entire population of American voters that are willing to let fear guide them. At least that's what I assumed you were talking about when you brought up your barricaded abstainer. If you're talking about voter suppression, well, that's not really the topic of this thread. Neither is restoring civic liberties to convicted felons, which would be the other possible interpretation. That wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was to mock your post of inferring that everyone (I presume that's what you meant, based on 2/3 of eligible voters had cast ballots for the election) who votes for a major party's candidate in 2020 is incapable of being able to think critically: John_A_Tallon posted:I think that the two-thirds of voters who felt like their choices were a rapist or a rapist are mostly suckers who don't examine much very critically The second part of my post was to expand on what makes you believe that a person is incapable of critically thinking. If you thought it was the act of voting or also the thought(/desire) of voting for a major party's candidate in last year's election. Kalit fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 16:42
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Most people in the US don't know about Tara Reade because the MSM buried the story and the coverage she did get was meant to discredit her. That's why I posted earlier that 2028 is the earliest we can expect to have the Democratic Party field a candidate who isn't Biden or Harris.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:43
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Biden isn't the first rapist many or even most of them have voted for, to be fair. Bill Clinton (who I assume you’re partly referring to) is a serial rapist and a pedophile and is still broadly liked by Democrats.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:47
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I'm fairly certain more people heard that Tara Reade owned a sick horse & had unhappy landlords than heard that she was raped.
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Mar 12, 2021 16:47
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Kalit posted:I'm glad you're here to spread the mind blowing statistic that nearly 2/3rd of the eligible voting population in the US are incapable of critically thinking because they had cast a vote for the Democratic or Republican nomination in the 2020 election Kalit posted:That wasn't the point of my post. The point of my post was to mock your post of inferring that everyone who votes for a major party candidate in 2020 is incapable of being able to think critically: I think you're 100% an rear end in a top hat. Is that a statistic? It's possible to speak in general terms about a general problem. Generally speaking, most voters don't put a great deal of effort into actually looking up information on their choices in an election. That's why propaganda works well, and why there's a correlation between the amount of money spent on a campaign and the amount of votes a candidate wins. That pattern generally holds true unless there's a strong narrative from activists who actively spread their version of events (be it the truth, a well designed lie, or their interpretation of if a candidate will actually support issues important to them or discard said issues as soon as possible). John_A_Tallon fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 16:53
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I think if you weighed the options and decided Biden was the lesser evil better choice, even while knowing who he is, you are at minimum obligated to do some serious personal assessment, and hopefully your revulsion at what the system was pressuring you to do drives you to rethink your approach to politics. Hopefully you get involved in a way better than casting a vote for the party that quietly swept these accusations under the rug and didn’t remove a rapist from consideration. If you cast that vote and then turn up again in 2022 and 2024 to solemnly do what blue team tells you without question, I’ll be comfortable dismissing you as uncritical and being disgusted at your complicity I’m not going to straight up call anyone disgusting or stupid, just because it’s not productive (I might have a more personal visceral reaction of course), but I’ll probably be giving people close to me a version of the above paragraph anytime this topic comes up for the foreseeable. If you’re inclined to read this thread and get defensive about how you voted in 2020, well, good news it’s too late for anyone to stop you, and not too late for you to commit to not fuckin voting for that again I get that a lot of people got scared into making a queasy choice, and for awhile I could be sympathetic to that, but I’m pretty sick of enabling them by acting like they shouldn’t feel bad about it one way or another misadventurous fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 17:11
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socialsecurity posted:So your plan is to harass everyone until what 51% of the country writes in a third party? Because there were 2 choices for President on election day last year, yes the primary should of gone differently but election day it was either Trump or Biden. On the other hand, as we talk about moving forward, we can examine what it means preemptively pre-elect a rape apologist in '24 & '28 as the default dem party ticket, and whether that rape apologist should face any challengers, even if the default defense of the candidate will be that she is a woman of color. (And by rape apologist I don't mean just stanning for one's rapist boss but also letting priests get away with rape in California.) It may take Dems losing an election or two before they realize that it should be toxic to run as a rapist, or an apologist for rapists, but if that's the only way to get through to them it's far preferable imo than making excuses for rapists to take office for the next decade, whether the excuses arise out of lesser-evilism, party pragmatism, or tribalism.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:21
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I think it's going to take out of state pressure to get him to resign, frankly. More or less, unfortunately. As a Cuomo, he is quite entrenched in New York politics as a whole, so it would take something extraordinary from outside of New York proper to get any sort of actionable justice going against him.
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Mar 12, 2021 18:38
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It's a great test case for whether the wider Democratic party will lift a finger about this kind of stuff ever again. Dude is deeply unpleasant, not at all critical to achieving anyone's goals but his own, responsible for the nursing home COVID scandal, and has a boatload of credible allegations against him. e: Like, come on! https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/1370413686351921156 Insanite fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 19:32
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I feel pretty confident in saying that Cuomo is done. It will probably take him awhile to realize that himself but the knives are already out and it isn't like NY risks getting a repub governor.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:46
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Insanite posted:It's a great test case for whether the wider Democratic party will lift a finger about this kind of stuff ever again. Wasn't there a SCOTUS member who also did something similar? I am absolutely not confident that Cuomo is done.
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Mar 12, 2021 20:47
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Cuomo is probably "done" in the sense that people will now say "I never liked that guy" but not in the sense that he will face any actual consequences.
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Mar 12, 2021 21:24
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Insanite posted:It's a great test case for whether the wider Democratic party will lift a finger about this kind of stuff ever again. Worth reading that whole report and then, among other things, asking yourself who the ally is who is going to save Cuomo, it's pretty clear people are digging up their bags of hatchets for this opportunity.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:23
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Insanite posted:It's a great test case for whether the wider Democratic party will lift a finger about this kind of stuff ever again. One is positive cultural shifts and institutional reforms. The other is powerful men not receiving consequences for their actions. And while we can definitely critique the hypocrisy of those who embrace the former without meaningfully pushing against the latter, the latter does not exclude the former. In short, no, it's not a great test that the wider Democratic Party will never lift a finger about this kind of stuff ever again because I'd argue that there are already broader social reforms that curb future men like Cuomo or at least that behavior in men like Cuomo. Not because of the Democratic Party, but just because of society in general. I think regardless of what happens, we already see that prominent men who have already risen to to power in our terribly patriarchal society are still going to be at least somewhat insulated from consequences by that power. The fact that Cuomo is being allowed to make such a clown of himself right now is evidence of that. Even if Schumer later comes out against it, I think the pause we're seeing is evidence enough of that.
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Mar 12, 2021 22:39
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Worth reading that whole report and then, among other things, asking yourself who the ally is who is going to save Cuomo, it's pretty clear people are digging up their bags of hatchets for this opportunity. Looks like that sixth woman and the physical assault allegation literally right after he said he never did that caused the knives to come out for real quote:The speaker of the New York Assembly, Carl Heastie, has authorized the Judiciary Committee to begin an impeachment investigation into misconduct allegations against Gov. Andrew Cuomo. Hopefully they throw his rear end in the East River. ed: oh wow where do i know this dog whistle from https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1370439405845024782?s=20 i hope everyone who called themselves a cuomosexual last summer understands they were idolizing Blue Trump The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 23:04
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Hmmmm https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/84453812819075073?s=20
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Mar 12, 2021 23:23
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https://twitter.com/brianmrosenthal/status/1370504633362317315The Oldest Man posted:i hope everyone who called themselves a cuomosexual last summer understands they were idolizing Blue Trump Well bad news, because if he is Blue Trump (as that article convincingly argues) then he will never log off
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Mar 12, 2021 23:47
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Well bad news, because if he is Blue Trump (as that article convincingly argues) then he will never log off I fully expect him to survive (judicially) because there's no physical evidence of any of this as far as I know and our joke of a justice system was designed on a whiteboard to protect pieces of poo poo like Cuomo and Trump from ever facing any real consequences for their actions as a general rule. He'll probably go mask off and become a media personality who screams about cancel culture full time for pay and make a good living at it. However, prying institutional power from his hands is an important step in curtailing his ability to hurt people which is the subtext that's too often forgotten in this discussion - it's not just about justice for the people he's already hurt, it's about taking away his power to hurt all the staffers and interns he's going to harass, assault, and/or rape in the future if left unchecked.
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Mar 13, 2021 00:18
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'd argue that there are already broader social reforms that curb future men like Cuomo or at least that behavior in men like Cuomo. Such as...?
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Mar 13, 2021 00:21
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PeterCat posted:Most people in the US don't know about Tara Reade because the MSM buried the story and the coverage she did get was meant to discredit her. That's why I posted earlier that 2028 is the earliest we can expect to have the Democratic Party field a candidate who isn't Biden or Harris. This is entirely false, and you can click the ? on this post to find the polling from 2020 that I posted earlier in the thread. Posting from phone otherwise I'd just link it all again. e: made it home, highlighted the part of your post that is entirely false. and here is the quote from this article that proves your assertation that "most people in the US don't know about Tara Reade" false: quote:In a new Monmouth University national poll, almost 9 in 10 people (86%) said they have heard about the allegation, which is not terribly surprising, given that Biden's denial last Friday -- he said the alleged incident "never happened" -- drove news coverage of the allegations made by Reade throughout the weekend. From this source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-monmouth-poll/index.html The Tara Reade allegation got plenty of air time. It was fully absorbed by Democrats, e: edit to correct myself. 55% of Democrats responding didn't believe Reade. 26% reported that they didn't know if it was true or not. 20% stated they believed Reade. How are u fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Mar 13, 2021 |
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Mar 13, 2021 02:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I think it's going to take out of state pressure to get him to resign, frankly. It sure is a shame that the President can't exert any pressure on Cuomo because... well you know
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Mar 13, 2021 06:01
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How are u posted:From this source: https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/politics/joe-biden-tara-reade-monmouth-poll/index.html I'd argue it wasn't "fully absorbed", most just ignored the details and looked for the first excuse to ignore it entirely, especially because it interfered with the media's "biden is a saint of healing and compassion" narrative
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Mar 13, 2021 12:13
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I saw some data a few days ago that the media mentions of Tara Reade's accusations were significantly less than other sex scandals in recent memory in the first few days immediately following the accusation, which probably contributed to a counter narrative taking before people learned any of the details, but I can't find the graphic right now. I'll post it if I come across it again. Meanwhile, Blue Trump gonna Blue Trump. https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1371133445255086081?s=20
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Mar 14, 2021 19:05
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Worth reading the new Ryan Grim piece with reporting about the completely-unconnected allegations regarding Reade "perjuring" herself w/r/t her undergraduate degree. https://theintercept.com/2021/03/14/new-york-times-tara-reade/ quote:Reade began law school classes that summer, but that fall, she got a letter putting her registration on hold, as the registrar observed there was no final transcript from Antioch in her file. Donna Deming, associate dean for student affairs at Seattle University School of Law, then emailed Deann Ketchum, the law school’s associate registrar. “I wanted to let you know that we waived the requirement that Ms. McCabe furnish us with an official transcript,” she wrote.
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Mar 15, 2021 01:39
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Pobrecito posted:It sure is a shame that the President can't exert any pressure on Cuomo because... well you know https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1371237666570784771?s=20
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Mar 15, 2021 01:43
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the 2016 lover posted:Worth reading the new Ryan Grim piece with reporting about the completely-unconnected allegations regarding Reade "perjuring" herself w/r/t her undergraduate degree. I have known a person going through the domestic violence shelter system while in college, in their specific case they basically became a ward of the state and that's how I learned a floor of the dormitory I was in was a domestic violence shelter that was basically run like a minimum-security prison. You can certainly count on some university functionary to not know their rear end in a top hat from their elbow when it comes to answering questions about this kind of stuff, assuming they are even allowed to say anything. Changing your name during this process would obviously only make things worse in terms of record-keeping.
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Mar 15, 2021 03:37
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Wondering if MeToo getting dumpstered was the canary in the coal mine; now the protests in Australia and the UK being met with brutality and sneers with the so-called opposition parties making themselves invisible, with the full aid of the media, is setting the stage for further institutional violence against women and women's rights being rolled back to enable institutional abuses.
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Mar 15, 2021 08:39
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Wondering if MeToo getting dumpstered was the canary in the coal mine; now the protests in Australia and the UK being met with brutality and sneers with the so-called opposition parties making themselves invisible, with the full aid of the media, is setting the stage for further institutional violence against women and women's rights being rolled back to enable institutional abuses. The core of the rejection of Tara Reade and by extension, MeToo, was that if someone is important enough, they're immune to consequences. Biden winning was important, so Tara Reade didn't matter. You see it now in the Cuomo situation, where we've had public officials openly saying that a little faking COVID death numbers is okay, a little sexual harassment is okay, you should stay in power, your abuses were hard-earned. If a Democratic Senator likely to be replaced with a Republican (or the seat kept empty until November) were be accused tomorrow, I guarantee that you would see a lot of people jump through hoops to explain why either A) the accuser is in some way not credible, or B) listen, sure our person is a rapist, but Mitch McConnell is way worse, so we can't punish them for it. The only question is where does the 'important enough' line get drawn, since it's been made? After all, many people would insist that the local police are more important than governors. By the Biden/Cuomo logic, that means the police get to do a little bit of terrible too. It's only fair.
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Mar 15, 2021 09:29
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