There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

«‹›1217 »

Barry White: Jun 28, 2008; Luke Skywalker kills Han Solo's son at the climax of Episode VII

Junkozeyne posted:

He already answered why the Xinjiang stuff gets treated differently. There is the fear of being accused of the "genocide-denying forum" in SA. Nevermind that you can cheer on western imperialism (including genocide) in SA without getting banned outright or support
a rapist president when he wears the right colors. So better let CSPAM follow the state department line or some people will make a QCS thread and be mean. It's beyond pathetic.

the Chinese president is a rapist? I hope they arrest him

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 11, 2024 12:28

lumpentroll: Mar 4, 2020

free homex

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:33

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Insofar as any individual person in these dead gay forums might be able to draw the distinction between "the Uyghurs are having their culture forcibly changed" and "the Uyghurs are being rounded up into death camps" where the latter obviously isn't happening, but the former is, and the former is still objectionable, that distinction is also NOT the thing that's being sold to the public.

The post I made recently about a "new study" regarding Uyghur oppression in Xinjiang that turned out to be from a think tank infested with right-wing natsec ghouls, especially again Adrian Zenz was run by CNN, and carried the following paragraph:

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1369167008764399617

quote:

Up to 2 million Uyghurs and other Muslim minorities are believed to have been placed in a sprawling network of detention centers across the region, according to the US State Department, where former detainees allege they were subjected to indoctrination, sexually abused and even forcibly sterilized.

Insofar as that's not an accusation of mass murder, it clearly also isn't the same as "cultural assimilation", either.

Here's two more where a mainstream news organization from my country re-reports a piece from Reuters about Xinjiang.

https://twitter.com/rapplerdotcom/status/1364012397309083652
https://twitter.com/rapplerdotcom/status/1357133197163827200

At the bottom of the second piece:

quote:

Last year, a report by a German researcher published by a Washington think tank accused China of using forced sterilization, forced abortion, and coercive family planning against minority Muslims.

Who do you think that German researcher is?

And going back to the CNN article, if you go all the way to the end, you find this:

quote:

The detention camps, which Beijing refers to as "vocational training centers," are described by officials and state media as being part of both a poverty alleviation campaign and a mass deradicalization program to combat terrorism.

"(But) you can simultaneously have an anti-terrorism campaign that is genocidal," said report contributor John Packer, associate professor at the University of Ottawa and former director of the Office of the OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities in The Hague.

...

"This (is) not an advocacy document, we're not advocating any course of action whatsoever. There were no campaigners involved in this report, it was purely done by legal experts, area experts and China ethnic experts," he said.

But Packer said such a "serious breach of the international order" in the world's second-largest economy raised questions about the global governance. "If this is not sufficient to instigate some kind of action or even to take positions, then what actually is required?" he said.

So even in the context of "it's genocide by way of destruction of an ethnicity's culture", it's still being framed as being sufficient to be a call to action.

And I think everyone here is capable of imagining what kind of action that's going to come down to. Like, okay, the US is not going to issue a declaration of war against China. Then what? They impose economic sanctions on China? What happens if that doesn't slow them down? They impose more sanctions?

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:34

smarxist: Jul 26, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

another iconic shirt

https://twitter.com/KawsachunNews/status/1370620260739600385?s=19

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:35

THS: Sep 15, 2017

gradenko_2000 posted:

And I think everyone here is capable of imagining what kind of action that's going to come down to. Like, okay, the US is not going to issue a declaration of war against China. Then what? They impose economic sanctions on China? What happens if that doesn't slow them down? They impose more sanctions?

what's the worst that could happen, from selling conflict on variously false or highly inflated pretenses?

thanks for the good examples showing the tenor of reporting about this subject. this isn't some bloodless foreign policy analysis to discuss if china is actually communist and how problematic a policy of assimilation is - it's being reported as claims far more sensational, to rile people up into a state of frenzy over the genocidal crimes of our new global rival - the new Hun! it's world war 1 and the germans are smashing babies against the rocks!

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:45

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

THS posted:

2) i�m doing a whataboutism

So, yeah. You are. And I see the value in that, as in, I understand that you�re playing devil�s advocate because you want to emphasize how the west proliferates anti-Chinese propaganda, and a lot of these articles come from media sources who clearly have vested political interests and work on the behalf of Western media interests.

And I agree with you that this issue of the Uighyers is totally being used by western powers towards political ends. For instance - last week the Dutch Parliament voted to become the second country in the world to officially accuse China of genocide. That seems like a crazy move for a neoliberal government with a large international maritime trade economy to do. Until you remember that there are elections in the Netherlands next week, and that every MP who suddenly decided to �take a stand� about this right now is facing re-election. And that�s just how western governments (and even non-Western governments) work, they make statements about other countries not because of some virtuous adherence to what is true and good, but because it is or isn�t politically advantageous to them.

Another example of this is the recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Even though there are many western (especially European) countries where the scholarly and political consensus is that a genocide did occur, many of these countries held back on acknowledging that because they didn�t want to offend Turkey. And some of them later did acknowledge that it was a genocide, when it was in their interests to chastise Turkey. So it was clearly being used as a political tool. Looking back at all that, it seems very cynical and hypocritical - shouldn�t they have just called it a genocide all along? Wasn�t that the right thing to do? I think so. So, in my mind, the political motivations of a government have nothing to do with what is the right thing to do. Both the dismissal and acknowledgment of the Armenian genocide can be seen as cynical powerplays. Whether a government calls something a genocide or not, there is good reason to mistrust that government and its appraisal of the situation, because whatever they do will be politically motivated. Therefore, what some government has to say about a genocide seems to be to be suspect and irrelevant, and so I don�t see much point in engaging with the line of argument outlined in your post.

Whether or not the US, or the Netherlands, or whoever else calls the Uighur situation a genocide, I don�t really care; that�s not g-ping to influence my opinion of whether it is a genocide or not. If it is a genocide, it is, if it�s not, it�s not. I could care less what the State Department thinks.

Which leads me to my real concern - how do I know if it�s a genocide or not?

It seems to be in the interest of the West to promote a narrative of Uighur genocide. And most probably, Western media outlets are pushing that narrative as part of a broader propaganda effort. But just because something is propaganda doesn�t mean it�s made up. In fact, the most effective propaganda is that sort which emphasizes the truth, because besides furthering some political goal, it is very difficult to argue with. So, just because the west says it�s so doesn�t mean I will immediately dismiss it as a fabrication.

It all comes down to me judging the situation for myself. But then, how am I to know what�s really happening in Xianjiang? I�m no China expert. Informative media from within China about that region is practically non-existent. I see Western sources which claim lots of things, that show satellite photos of Muslim graveyards and mosques and other cultural sites being bulldozed, that describing alarming falls in birthrate while citing Official Chinese statistics, etc. There are many such claims, there is a whole Wikipedia article with dozens of claims and links to their sources. How am I supposed to know if they�re false or not? I see a lot of people post things like, �these claims are all false and easily dismissed,� yet I rarely see the explanations which would easily dismiss them. Do you have those? I�m not sure they exist, but if they do, I would earnestly like to read them, because I want to know the truth.

What bothers me is when people who have access to the same information as me claim to be very certain about what�s happening there - when people say that they know exactly what�s really going on, and that the narrative in western media is inherently all lies, because it is in the western media. How do you (or others) know what�s really happening when other people don�t? When, due to the lack of reliable information, they can�t reasonably be expected to know what�s really going on? If someone is steadfast and certain in their convictions about something which is so inherently ambiguous, I find that suspicious. It makes me think that that person is saying as much in the pursuit of their own political ends. And so I�m left to roll my eyes, first this way, then that.

However, I have a sincere question for you. Like I said, I�m not an expert on China, but I�ve seen plenty of things which altogether suggest to me that something rather nefarious is happening to the Uighurs. And, being a cynic and pessimist at heart, I suspect it might be the worst. Do you have detailed counterarguments that go against the claims made in that wiki article on other sources, that I could look at? Something more substantial than �the west says so, thus it must be false�?

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:53

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

twoday posted:

So, yeah. You are. And I see the value in that, as in, I understand that you�re playing devil�s advocate because you want to emphasize how the west proliferates anti-Chinese propaganda, and a lot of these articles come from media sources who clearly have vested political interests and work on the behalf of Western media interests.

And I agree with you that this issue of the Uighyers is totally being used by western powers towards political ends. For instance - last week the Dutch Parliament voted to become the second country in the world to officially accuse China of genocide. That seems like a crazy move for a neoliberal government with a large international maritime trade economy to do. Until you remember that there are elections in the Netherlands next week, and that every MP who suddenly decided to �take a stand� about this right now is facing re-election. And that�s just how western governments (and even non-Western governments) work, they make statements about other countries not because of some virtuous adherence to what is true and good, but because it is or isn�t politically advantageous to them.

Another example of this is the recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Even though there are many western (especially European) countries where the scholarly and political consensus is that a genocide did occur, many of these countries held back on acknowledging that because they didn�t want to offend Turkey. And some of them later did acknowledge that it was a genocide, when it was in their interests to chastise Turkey. So it was clearly being used as a political tool. Looking back at all that, it seems very cynical and hypocritical - shouldn�t they have just called it a genocide all along? Wasn�t that the right thing to do? I think so. So, in my mind, the political motivations of a government have nothing to do with what is the right thing to do. Both the dismissal and acknowledgment of the Armenian genocide can be seen as cynical powerplays. Whether a government calls something a genocide or not, there is good reason to mistrust that government and its appraisal of the situation, because whatever they do will be politically motivated. Therefore, what some government has to say about a genocide seems to be to be suspect and irrelevant, and so I don�t see much point in engaging with the line of argument outlined in your post.

Whether or not the US, or the Netherlands, or whoever else calls the Uighur situation a genocide, I don�t really care; that�s not g-ping to influence my opinion of whether it is a genocide or not. If it is a genocide, it is, if it�s not, it�s not. I could care less what the State Department thinks.

Which leads me to my real concern - how do I know if it�s a genocide or not?

It seems to be in the interest of the West to promote a narrative of Uighur genocide. And most probably, Western media outlets are pushing that narrative as part of a broader propaganda effort. But just because something is propaganda doesn�t mean it�s made up. In fact, the most effective propaganda is that sort which emphasizes the truth, because besides furthering some political goal, it is very difficult to argue with. So, just because the west says it�s so doesn�t mean I will immediately dismiss it as a fabrication.

It all comes down to me judging the situation for myself. But then, how am I to know what�s really happening in Xianjiang? I�m no China expert. Informative media from within China about that region is practically non-existent. I see Western sources which claim lots of things, that show satellite photos of Muslim graveyards and mosques and other cultural sites being bulldozed, that describing alarming falls in birthrate while citing Official Chinese statistics, etc. There are many such claims, there is a whole Wikipedia article with dozens of claims and links to their sources. How am I supposed to know if they�re false or not? I see a lot of people post things like, �these claims are all false and easily dismissed,� yet I rarely see the explanations which would easily dismiss them. Do you have those? I�m not sure they exist, but if they do, I would earnestly like to read them, because I want to know the truth.

What bothers me is when people who have access to the same information as me claim to be very certain about what�s happening there - when people say that they know exactly what�s really going on, and that the narrative in western media is inherently all lies, because it is in the western media. How do you (or others) know what�s really happening when other people don�t? When, due to the lack of reliable information, they can�t reasonably be expected to know what�s really going on? If someone is steadfast and certain in their convictions about something which is so inherently ambiguous, I find that suspicious. It makes me think that that person is saying as much in the pursuit of their own political ends. And so I�m left to roll my eyes, first this way, then that.

However, I have a sincere question for you. Like I said, I�m not an expert on China, but I�ve seen plenty of things which altogether suggest to me that something rather nefarious is happening to the Uighurs. And, being a cynic and pessimist at heart, I suspect it might be the worst. Do you have detailed counterarguments that go against the claims made in that wiki article on other sources, that I could look at? Something more substantial than �the west says so, thus it must be false�?

you know, vaping out of this e-cig isn't enough. maybe I should just jam it into my eye socket and inhale the fumes with my brain. that sounds pretty good

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:58

a Loving Dog: May 12, 2001; more like a Barking Dog, woof!

Flavius Aetass posted:

I don't know what kind of news sources you guys are tapped into. I'm sure NPR etc. are doing the standard thing you claim they're doing, and yes, I also believe that the recent claims of millions of holocausted Uighurs is likely extremely bogus. The thing is, I never hear about it except by way of a few people in C-SPAM going out of their way to deny it, and the original problem we all had with that is how gross it seems for people to be railing against a non-existent propaganda problem on C-SPAM by denying that the Chinese government has been oppressing the poo poo out of Muslims in Xinjiang for several decades. None of the cultural genocide/forced assimilation stuff is new. I wrote papers about it in college and none of the sources were right-wing cultists or whatever you guys are talking about. I think it's extremely hosed up to defend China on this issue because it doesn't fit your definition of genocide or you think it's all made up to justify war.

I agree that we should be focusing on our own backyard considering the similarities, but that's what I've been doing and I literally only hear about this issue from people defending China.

shut the gently caress up dumbass

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:59

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

people have posted, on this very page, specific citations by a very specific person

and yet another moderator is doing the pam from the office meme

i understand that all of you were incredibly impressed by your moderator forefathers to write 5449 characters worth of stuff that can be accurately summed up by using 3: idk

# ? Mar 13, 2021 09:59

Junkozeyne: Feb 13, 2012

twoday posted:

So, yeah. You are. And I see the value in that, as in, I understand that you’re playing devil’s advocate because you want to emphasize how the west proliferates anti-Chinese propaganda, and a lot of these articles come from media sources who clearly have vested political interests and work on the behalf of Western media interests.

And I agree with you that this issue of the Uighyers is totally being used by western powers towards political ends. For instance - last week the Dutch Parliament voted to become the second country in the world to officially accuse China of genocide. That seems like a crazy move for a neoliberal government with a large international maritime trade economy to do. Until you remember that there are elections in the Netherlands next week, and that every MP who suddenly decided to “take a stand” about this right now is facing re-election. And that’s just how western governments (and even non-Western governments) work, they make statements about other countries not because of some virtuous adherence to what is true and good, but because it is or isn’t politically advantageous to them.

Another example of this is the recognition of the Armenian Genocide. Even though there are many western (especially European) countries where the scholarly and political consensus is that a genocide did occur, many of these countries held back on acknowledging that because they didn’t want to offend Turkey. And some of them later did acknowledge that it was a genocide, when it was in their interests to chastise Turkey. So it was clearly being used as a political tool. Looking back at all that, it seems very cynical and hypocritical - shouldn’t they have just called it a genocide all along? Wasn’t that the right thing to do? I think so. So, in my mind, the political motivations of a government have nothing to do with what is the right thing to do. Both the dismissal and acknowledgment of the Armenian genocide can be seen as cynical powerplays. Whether a government calls something a genocide or not, there is good reason to mistrust that government and its appraisal of the situation, because whatever they do will be politically motivated. Therefore, what some government has to say about a genocide seems to be to be suspect and irrelevant, and so I don’t see much point in engaging with the line of argument outlined in your post.

Whether or not the US, or the Netherlands, or whoever else calls the Uighur situation a genocide, I don’t really care; that’s not g-ping to influence my opinion of whether it is a genocide or not. If it is a genocide, it is, if it’s not, it’s not. I could care less what the State Department thinks.

Which leads me to my real concern - how do I know if it’s a genocide or not?

It seems to be in the interest of the West to promote a narrative of Uighur genocide. And most probably, Western media outlets are pushing that narrative as part of a broader propaganda effort. But just because something is propaganda doesn’t mean it’s made up. In fact, the most effective propaganda is that sort which emphasizes the truth, because besides furthering some political goal, it is very difficult to argue with. So, just because the west says it’s so doesn’t mean I will immediately dismiss it as a fabrication.

It all comes down to me judging the situation for myself. But then, how am I to know what’s really happening in Xianjiang? I’m no China expert. Informative media from within China about that region is practically non-existent. I see Western sources which claim lots of things, that show satellite photos of Muslim graveyards and mosques and other cultural sites being bulldozed, that describing alarming falls in birthrate while citing Official Chinese statistics, etc. There are many such claims, there is a whole Wikipedia article with dozens of claims and links to their sources. How am I supposed to know if they’re false or not? I see a lot of people post things like, “these claims are all false and easily dismissed,” yet I rarely see the explanations which would easily dismiss them. Do you have those? I’m not sure they exist, but if they do, I would earnestly like to read them, because I want to know the truth.

What bothers me is when people who have access to the same information as me claim to be very certain about what’s happening there - when people say that they know exactly what’s really going on, and that the narrative in western media is inherently all lies, because it is in the western media. How do you (or others) know what’s really happening when other people don’t? When, due to the lack of reliable information, they can’t reasonably be expected to know what’s really going on? If someone is steadfast and certain in their convictions about something which is so inherently ambiguous, I find that suspicious. It makes me think that that person is saying as much in the pursuit of their own political ends. And so I’m left to roll my eyes, first this way, then that.

However, I have a sincere question for you. Like I said, I’m not an expert on China, but I’ve seen plenty of things which altogether suggest to me that something rather nefarious is happening to the Uighurs. And, being a cynic and pessimist at heart, I suspect it might be the worst. Do you have detailed counterarguments that go against the claims made in that wiki article on other sources, that I could look at? Something more substantial than “the west says so, thus it must be false”?

You could start reading i.e. this article though you might have to ban yourself for genocide denial afterwards https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:01

twoday: May 4, 2005; C-SPAM Times best-selling author

gradenko_2000 posted:

bunch of stuff

You posted this while I was posting my very long post and I didn�t see it, but in general I appreciate the clarity and nuance with which you are describing your arguments. I think a bunch of people are vague about what they think is happening and that margin of obscurity has been leading to very heated arguments.

Ok, so people aren�t being rounded up into death camps. Are they en masse being rounded up and forced to live in re-education camps? Do the stories about mass sterilization have any basis in reality? I think it�s possible to do a genocide without death camps.

And just as some people look at those pushing back against the western narrative and call them genocide deniers, I also think it�s possible some people are questioning the claims of genocide, thinking that they immediately must include death camps to be a �proper� genocide.

What is genocide? Where is the line between that and the extermination of a culture. Is cultural extermination an easily dismissed crime? How do we define it? Etc, etc

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:06

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

a Loving Dog posted:

shut the gently caress up dumbass

What is the correct nomenclature for the perineum? taint, chode or flavius

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:07

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Lol at the mod from the forum that arose from the trump thread being like why are you guys discussing politics/stuff that is on CNN. That loving pwns.

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:08

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

twoday posted:

I think a bunch of people are vague about what they think is happening

you don't say

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:09

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Phone posted:

you don't say

Okay buddy but do you think joe Biden is a dog nonce

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:10

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

twoday posted:

but in general I appreciate the clarity and nuance with which you are describing your arguments. I think a bunch of people are vague about what they think is happening and that margin of obscurity has been leading to very heated arguments.

I see you. I hear you.

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:10

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

The spam is too drat politicized - a real position, lmfao

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:14

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

Ash Crimson posted:

What is the correct nomenclature for the perineum? taint, chode or flavius

you and me are waiting for the Ash reveal for KOF XV

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:15

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Victory Position posted:

you and me are waiting for the Ash reveal for KOF XV

Desperately hoping they actually have him in this time lol they can't tease him back and leave him out

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:26

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

Ash Crimson posted:

Desperately hoping they actually have him in this time lol they can't tease him back and leave him out

well, I bought that game for the hat and ugh, for the love of god, this is how you introduce the lore? through a creepy fun house sex manor? like, what the gently caress

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:27

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

Fortaleza posted:

Genuine Pedophilia Accusations Megathread

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:32

THS: Sep 15, 2017

twoday posted:

However, I have a sincere question for you. Like I said, I�m not an expert on China, but I�ve seen plenty of things which altogether suggest to me that something rather nefarious is happening to the Uighurs. And, being a cynic and pessimist at heart, I suspect it might be the worst. Do you have detailed counterarguments that go against the claims made in that wiki article on other sources, that I could look at? Something more substantial than �the west says so, thus it must be false�?

other people can do a better job at providing those detailed arguments, and i previously offered the greyzone as a good example of an anti-imperialist propaganda outlet which is providing those detailed counteraguments, also gradenko, helpfully, is smarter than me on this stuff

i'm giving a genuine argument, argued from a fear of "manufacturing consent" and seeing this effort to whip nationalism into hysteria over fear of china, and i wish i had a better ability, and was better at writing, and had more time, to get this across. i'm not being disingenuous or misrepresenting what i think is an accurate way to approach this in the best capacity i have

also in your longer post, you confirm the basic argument that i'm making; that claims of uighyer genocide are being cynically used by western powers, but you're squishy on my claim of how loving bad this is, how it will probably lead to war, and it is at least partly based on inflated claims or outright lies. it's definitely worthy of debate and discussion. and i think you are missing the bigger picture regardless

so how about not banning people for disagreeing on the NPR falun gong media narrative, there's no mod feedback thread anymore so i guess this is it. china becoming the Final Boss for a dying america is only going to get worse

THS fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Mar 13, 2021

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:32

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Victory Position posted:

well, I bought that game for the hat and ugh, for the love of god, this is how you introduce the lore? through a creepy fun house sex manor? like, what the gently caress

lol

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:33

Barry White: Jun 28, 2008; Luke Skywalker kills Han Solo's son at the climax of Episode VII

Flavius Aetass posted:

I don't know what kind of news sources you guys are tapped into. I'm sure NPR etc. are doing the standard thing you claim they're doing, and yes, I also believe that the recent claims of millions of holocausted Uighurs is likely extremely bogus. The thing is, I never hear about it except by way of a few people in C-SPAM going out of their way to deny it, and the original problem we all had with that is how gross it seems for people to be railing against a non-existent propaganda problem on C-SPAM by denying that the Chinese government has been oppressing the poo poo out of Muslims in Xinjiang for several decades. None of the cultural genocide/forced assimilation stuff is new. I wrote papers about it in college and none of the sources were right-wing cultists or whatever you guys are talking about. I think it's extremely hosed up to defend China on this issue because it doesn't fit your definition of genocide or you think it's all made up to justify war.

I agree that we should be focusing on our own backyard considering the similarities, but that's what I've been doing and I literally only hear about this issue from people defending China.

America.. First?

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:33

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

Ash Crimson posted:

lol

it's a wonderful hat and the stickers are cool, just junk the game in the garbage

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:34

THS: Sep 15, 2017

also whataboutism owns, it's entirely valid to rest your argument on hypocrisy in geopolitics especially with regard to what your priorities should be and where you are from, what your interests are, what effect you can have. this isn't loving high school debate club and i don't give a poo poo about the technicality of doing ad homs or whatever. it's nerd poo poo and fake rules

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:40

Ash Crimson: Apr 4, 2010

Victory Position posted:

it's a wonderful hat and the stickers are cool, just junk the game in the garbage

Kof 13 was a graphically amazing game and then kof 14 was like... meh...

Good roster tho

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:43

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

Ash Crimson posted:

Kof 13 was a graphically amazing game and then kof 14 was like... meh...

Good roster tho

XV is looking good, the hitsparks are gorgeous all hell, DMs and SDMs look wonderful when they activate; they're very fluid and they actually somewhat resemble what they looked like in 98

edit: I'm in love with the DM sounds though, as the Climax or whatever the hell sounds like a loving black hole warp into a world of pain

Victory Position fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Mar 13, 2021

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:45

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

THS posted:

also whataboutism owns, it's entirely valid to rest your argument on hypocrisy in geopolitics especially with regard to what your priorities should be and where you are from, what your interests are, what effect you can have. this isn't loving high school debate club and i don't give a poo poo about the technicality of doing ad homs or whatever. it's nerd poo poo and fake rules

so long as slavery exists, it can never be absolved. *a single rose petal falls away, smash cut to a horse riding in the light of a full moon*

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:46

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/TheDailyMao/status/1370517856782184452

# ? Mar 13, 2021 10:55

Junkozeyne: Feb 13, 2012

THS posted:

also whataboutism owns, it's entirely valid to rest your argument on hypocrisy in geopolitics especially with regard to what your priorities should be and where you are from, what your interests are, what effect you can have. this isn't loving high school debate club and i don't give a poo poo about the technicality of doing ad homs or whatever. it's nerd poo poo and fake rules

I really like https://aeon.co/essays/the-merits-of-taking-an-anti-anti-communism-stance about whataboutism. In that it historically was used to deflect from hypocrisy in calls to action. "The UDSSR is evil due to <x> and should be eradicated."
"You are also engaged in <x>"
"Whataboutism!!!!!"

The same with Xinjiang and calls of sanctions/war/boycotts towards China. If the west really thought that genocide/reeducation/forced labour is evil on a fundamental level they would have to change their own actions.
But they don't so the push against China has nothing to do with the Uighurs and everything to do with China threatening American hegemony. And that is even with assuming that these allegations are true to begin with.

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:11

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

twoday posted:

What is genocide? Where is the line between that and the extermination of a culture. Is cultural extermination an easily dismissed crime? How do we define it? Etc, etc

I'm not trying to argue that whatever is happening in Xinjiang is or isn't a genocide.

What I am trying to point is that:

A. the propaganda that is flying about is still accusing China of committing more than just "cultural genocide"

B. even in cases where China is "only" or "merely" accused of committing cultural genocide, that is still being treated as sufficient grounds for Western interventionism

if people are being very reflexively dismissive of claims about what is going on in Xinjiang, it is because we are familiar enough with how this works that it ultimately does not matter what is going on in there, since the end-result is always to be "and therefore the US needs to do something"

I live in a country where life is cheap. One week ago nine activists were shot and killed by the police over bogus search warrants just because they were vaguely accused of being leftists. The drug war has killed some several thousands of people. Tens of thousands if you believe the liberals, mere thousands according to the official record, and most of those supposedly being righteous shoots.

To the extent that Duterte is still enough of a partner to the United States that the State Department is not raising hell about how He Must Go, I wouldn't be interested in litigating those numbers if I knew that it was in service of the Biden administration building up a case to Tomahawk the Presidential Palace and insert their own handpicked replacement.

And I don't say that because I don't care about my fellow countrymen - I say that because the opposite is true: my Filipino comrades want the US to get the gently caress out of our country, with no exceptions.

gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Mar 13, 2021

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:21

THS: Sep 15, 2017

Junkozeyne posted:

I really like https://aeon.co/essays/the-merits-of-taking-an-anti-anti-communism-stance about whataboutism. In that it historically was used to deflect from hypocrisy in calls to action. "The UDSSR is evil due to <x> and should be eradicated."
"You are also engaged in <x>"
"Whataboutism!!!!!"

The same with Xinjiang and calls of sanctions/war/boycotts towards China. If the west really thought that genocide/reeducation/forced labour is evil on a fundamental level they would have to change their own actions.
But they don't so the push against China has nothing to do with the Uighurs and everything to do with China threatening American hegemony. And that is even with assuming that these allegations are true to begin with.

yeah the point of reversing claims of "whataboutism" is revealing the unseriousness of the people yelling "whataboutism" - it's not that you can't care about two things at the same time, it's that western sympathetic partisans have an obvious agenda, it just so happens that whataboutists de-emphasize the crimes of their own state by playing up the crimes of their grinded axe

So what is the use -actually- of pointing your finger at the overseas nation we have surrounded with missile defense systems, missile offense systems, the pacific fleet, nuclear submarines, and the "pacific strategy" - of the crimes you yourself freely commit and abuse. if you think this hypocrisy is irrelevant you're a loving idiot

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:22

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

all i know about xinjiang is that the claims of genocide are coming from the same people who have blatantly lied to me for the entirety of my politically aware life

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:23

Victory Position: Mar 16, 2004

twoday posted:

What is genocide? Where is the line between that and the extermination of a culture. Is cultural extermination an easily dismissed crime? How do we define it? Etc, etc

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:30

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

Cerebral Bore posted:

all i know about xinjiang is that the claims of genocide are coming from the same people who have blatantly lied to me for the entirety of my politically aware life

THS posted:

So what is the use -actually- of pointing your finger at the overseas nation we have surrounded with missile defense systems, missile offense systems, the pacific fleet, nuclear submarines, and the "pacific strategy" - of the crimes you yourself freely commit and abuse. if you think this hypocrisy is irrelevant you're a loving idiot

yeah this

you expect me to believe all the jennifer rubins, the david brooks, frums, etc all suddenly are very concerned about muslim minority group as they continue to cheer on the iraw war, obama-biden warcrime status yemeni-saudi backed genocide, bombing syrian civillians, classifying ypg as terrorist, proudly cheering on locking up every south american refugee in concentration camps and deporting them to get murdered or sex-slaved, etc? just lol it's extremely clear what bigwig DC thinktanks and NPR and it's arms are doing.

# ? Mar 13, 2021 11:44