Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Dareon posted:

Well that makes even less sense than Kingdom Hearts.

I'd be inclined to agree, but I haven't kept up with KH after KH2.

Still, from what I hear about later games, while the KH story is an insanely tangled Gordian Knot that deals 2d6 SAN damage and can devour one investigator per round, it's somewhat coherent. At least when compared to FF13-1, which isn't.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



FF13-1's plot almost makes sense except for the very end where they have to pull out a deus ex machina to give it any kind of happy ending.

Big god made demigods to serve humanity, on Pulse (big world) and the orbiting Cocoon (smaller world). Demigods eventually get sick of serving humans and immortality in general and so want to call back god. The best way they can think of to do this is by failing at their jobs as hard as possible by forcing humans to be their servants.

First (in the backstory of the game) they try forcing a war between Pulse and Cocoon, and that doesn't work (Pulse loses).

Pulse demigods enslave their entire population to kill them off, but this doesn't work on Cocoon for whatever reason.

So a Pulse demigod entombed on Cocoon from the war gives the main characters the explicit mission to kill the demigod at the heart of Cocoon, bringing it down and killing everyone in it.

So the main characters hem and haw and infight and try to 'resist fate' and in the end... they still end up doing it. And Cocoon starts falling.

And yeah deus ex machina literally happens to make it turn out OK. It Just Works. The writers had written themselves into a corner and had no idea what to do.

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather
The stupidest thing about the plot of FF13-1 is that the bumbling heroes are doing exactly what the bad guys want them to do for the entire game and then a pretty literal Deus ex Machina with no prior indication happens in the final cutscene.
That's undeniably a bad plot.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Mar 11, 2021

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
The more I learn about that game the happier I get that I didn't make it that far in before quitting.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

cant cook creole bream posted:

The stupidest thing about the plot of FF13-1 is that the bumbling heroes are doing exactly what the bad guys want them to do for the entire game and then a pretty literal Deus ex Machina with no happens in the final cutscene.
That's undeniably a bad plot.

To further summarize this:

Party shows up to the death star to save some of them, I think Sazh and Vanille? They succeed, breach every defense. About to fight The Baroness and the robopope killsteals before you do. Turns into gigantic headed thing with a kickass soundsystem that pumps out an okay boss theme but too short for how long the fight goes. Says go kill god, they say no, he nopes out but leaves his personal owlairship around with the keys in and they get in anyway because what else will they do? Its on autopilot so they go exactly where he wants them to.

Repeat a couple times, until the end. So not even a "Aha, you have been a crucial part of my plan all along and each step along the way was a distraction for me getting the black materia!" Literally "Do this" "no" "okay" "...well, what else are we going to do if we don't want to turn into crystal zombies?"

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


You're all missing the most important part where after the trilogy Lightning settles down as her true calling: a Louis Vuitton model.

I'm only half joking.

Dareon
Apr 6, 2009

by vyelkin
Man, I played FFXIII and I don't remember 80% of this poo poo.

EggsAisle
Dec 17, 2013

I get it! You're, uh...
Diggin' the shaved armpits on Auron's (re)intro scene. Samurai have to be meticulous about these things, you know?

Seymour's aeon (don't think we've learned its name yet, so I'll hold off) is a great design. I think The Dark Id called it the "death metal album cover monster" or some such, which I think is exactly what the artists were going for. Its animations make it look like something out of Silent Hill. It also helps characterize Seymour, in that we learn his power isn't just political; he's got firepower on his side too. Really dangerous, hosed-up looking firepower. It gives first-time players plenty of things to wonder about- things like "where the hell did he get that", or maybe just "where the hell can I get that?"

Quantum Toast
Feb 13, 2012

Isn't 13-1 the one where they made the FMVs before planning the plot, and ended up having to temporarily resurrect a character because they accidentally had him die before a cutscene where he's still alive?

Snorb
Nov 19, 2010
See, I knew there was a reason I gave up on FF13 eleven years ago. (And not just beyond "The player-controlled character gets killed, game's over, boo loving hoo if someone else knows Raise or you have Phoenix Downs.")

Though "Killing the goddess of death and time didn't fix time, it just broke death" from a few posts above is... actually a really poetic way to describe the trilogy's plot.

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
I tried looking up the main antagonist on the wiki once and from what little I understood it was "mommy issues but they're both God"

EDIT:

Oh right, just remembered I was gonna say something about Wakka's slots.

Typically, I hate slot machines, especially in videogames. But Wakka's don't move really fast so it's easier to get what you want

Rabbi Raccoon fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 12, 2021

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
EDIT: Post =/= Edit

Fedule
Mar 27, 2010


No one left uncured.
I got you.
FFXIII is really goddamn weird! I honestly kinda love the game part of it, in the abstract, if you separate it out from the context of its weird thirty-hour-tutorial framing, it's real neat, and unique (I await with anticipation Christine Love's upcoming game Get in the Car, Loser primarily because the playable part of it is really obviously a gigantic love letter to FFXIII). But every narrative part of it is dumb as gently caress. It's so stupid. Even when it manages to make sense, it does so accidentally, and it's a mess of disconnected beats hanging together by the flimsiest threads and the worst game design methodologies. It's well documented that nobody at Square Enix had any goddamn clue what this game was actually going to be like before they were ordered to throw together a demo to release alongside some other thing one time, and they had no idea what the story was but were going whole hog on making assets and FMVs anyway, there was famously enough cut content for a whole other videogame, which, shockingly enough, they went and made!

FFX has a lot in common with FFXIII in terms of its rigidly linear structure, but, it's like night and day w.r.t. vision, like, FFX flows, it's paced, it was obviously planned this way from the start, all the bits of its design flow into eachother, it comes together! Even when there are bits of it I don't like, it's apparent enough that at least it was deliberately that way and I'm having an honest difference of opinion with the designers, unlike FFXIII which is the way it is more or less by a very convoluted accident and probably didn't have much of a plan for me to have issues with.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Quantum Toast posted:

Isn't 13-1 the one where they made the FMVs before planning the plot, and ended up having to temporarily resurrect a character because they accidentally had him die before a cutscene where he's still alive?

Yes, well, techically not dead because he was crystalized and that just means "demigod put them on the shelf because they did a good job so therefore they can be brought back to do more good jobs."

But yes, he was revived and became fake pope and then immediately really definitely dead.

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



If the plot had focused on the fact that de-crystalisation was possible it might have made for some kind of better plot.
"You're forced to serve a demigod or slowly die (with a time limit), and success only means you get your timer reset for next time your master needs you" could lead to an interesting sort of game where you try to break free within your time limit but still need to fulfil your goal along the way.

Come to think of it this is kinda-sorta the premise of tabletop RPG Mummy: the Curse (taking place in the same universe as Vampire: the Requiem, the spiritual successor to Vampire: the Masquerade), though that game had other problems about how it was constructed.

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013

vriska (vriska)

bewilderment posted:

"You're forced to serve a demigod or slowly die (with a time limit), and success only means you get your timer reset for next time your master needs you" could lead to an interesting sort of game where you try to break free within your time limit but still need to fulfil your goal along the way.

This idea honestly only gets better if you imagine it as a variation on Majora's Mask where certain things carry over between semi-randomised "jobs" which you can build up towards The Big Escape.

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014

Final Fantasy 13 had one basic idea: "What if the protagonists were chosen by an enemy set of crystals for once?" Aside from bad development practices, everything else built up from that starting point, and the fact that the answer they decided on was "They wouldn't be able to handle it."

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



MarquiseMindfang posted:

This idea honestly only gets better if you imagine it as a variation on Majora's Mask where certain things carry over between semi-randomised "jobs" which you can build up towards The Big Escape.

Prey Mooncrash was almost this. You loop through playing staff members trying to survive on a moon station and eventually escape, accomplishing objectives along the way, with the framing conceit being that you're an investigator living through their simulated memories and that's how you can upgrade yourself and change things up as you repeat memories.
Your eventual goal is to do a '5 escape run' where you loop through all 5 staff in a single iteration, playing in just the right way that all the staff escape in a different way, which means you have to do stuff like use the Hacker character to hack enough doors open for the Psychic to get through them, and so on.

The original plan was that once you'd accomplished everything in the sim, you'd crash on the moon and have to do an escape yourself as the investigator using everything you'd learned, but that was cut for time so that bit just happens in a cutscene.

double edit:
I forgot their next game, Deathloop, is also kinda sorta aiming to be this where you're caught in a 1-day time loop and need to figure out a way to kill all the bosses in a single day to escape the loop.
Also the multiplayer component is that another player can invade your game to screw you over and try to kill you while you try to end the loop.

bewilderment fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Mar 12, 2021

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

bewilderment posted:

If the plot had focused on the fact that de-crystalisation was possible it might have made for some kind of better plot.
"You're forced to serve a demigod or slowly die (with a time limit), and success only means you get your timer reset for next time your master needs you" could lead to an interesting sort of game where you try to break free within your time limit but still need to fulfil your goal along the way.

Come to think of it this is kinda-sorta the premise of tabletop RPG Mummy: the Curse (taking place in the same universe as Vampire: the Requiem, the spiritual successor to Vampire: the Masquerade), though that game had other problems about how it was constructed.

Hey, if we’re going Mummy, we may as well have a cult involved. Cult’cie?

I never got into 13. Part of that was that I wasn’t a huge fan of the combat and didn’t find the aesthetic all that captivating; part of it was because it introduced a potential party member before killing her off five minutes in and I have an allergy to casual character death (it makes me break out in hives and throw away game discs). That kind of sapped my interest. Glad to see it never actually become coherent.

MightyPretenders posted:

Final Fantasy 13 had one basic idea: "What if the protagonists were chosen by an enemy set of crystals for once?" Aside from bad development practices, everything else built up from that starting point, and the fact that the answer they decided on was "They wouldn't be able to handle it."

Final Fantasy XVI: What if the protagonists were chosen by meth crystals?

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Yeah, 13 has only the combat going for it and if doesn't gel, the rest of it is already busy doing 50 hours of Sideshow Bob stepping on rakes.

It doesn't help that as far as I recall the most important mechanic isn't actually explained, namely: when doing at least 2 full ATB worth of actions in a paradigm, after your next paradigm shift you get a full ATB refill for free. So ABC of combat: always be changing (paradigm).

Also the second most important mechanic (SEN and MED comparatively suck outside of the 2 seconds before and after a big boss attack) should have been explained in 15 different tutorial screens in size 50 font.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E
Update 17: Said That A Lot, Too

Final Fantasy X HD Remaster OST 39. Mi'ihen Highroad (RECOMMENDED LISTENING)



I’m a sucker for acoustic guitar. I feel this theme is one of the very few remixes that are clearly better than the original.

Though we’ve had the chance to run around and explore areas before, the Mi’ihen Highroad is the first time we get the chance to start taking detours, doing side quests, and loving around in classic RPG fashion. It’s still highly linear – and it will be for a while – but there’s plenty to do along the way that doesn’t involve plot or random encounters; this isn’t Final Fantasy XIII’s glass tube.

But just because we’ve left the introductory part of the game…



… Doesn’t mean we’ve run out of tutorials! You remember how the Aurochs were poo poo? You can find random people all across Spira who are willing to drop everything and join the worst team in the league (possibly). While you can start blitzing at any point in the game, all players gradually level up over time as they gain experience on the field (including in matches you don’t participate in). There’s plenty of players you can find who will ace early matches before turning into deadweight a couple dozen games down the line, and if you spend too much time leveling up your deadweight, you have to throw underleveled players onto your team and try to grind them up as your opponents pound you into the ground. Fortunately, the league freezes in time when you aren’t actively participating, so you can wait as long as you want before you really get to optimize your team. Unfortunately, I am impatient and will be showing off league games in an update or two.

Anyway, this area tries to teach you to talk to everyone you meet through operant conditioning. At least a dozen people are walking up and down the road, and of those maybe one won’t give you an item the first time you talk to them (“thank you, my lady summoner!”). None of these gifts are life-changing, but collectively they’re worth as much money as you could reasonably expect to have at this point of the game.



The first random encounter in the area is set to introduce us to Auron proper. Auron is slow. He’s the slowest party member by a substantial margin. But his physical attacks are the most powerful in the party and can damage armored enemies, a property only shared by Kimahri (because everybody shares something with Kimahri). He also handles direct stat debuffs; Wakka may inflict status effects, but Auron can directly drop their Magic or Defense, say. As far as his Overdrive goes, it focuses on doing massive amounts of physical damage: if you’ve ever played Final Fantasy VI and suplexed a train, you know how he operates.

Once you get past this and start fighting random encounters for real, the Highroad is a great place for grinding. The most dangerous monster here is the Dual Horn, a big fiend that works like a stronger, non-flying Garuda: Blind it, hit it a bunch of times, have Kimahri use Lancet to learn how to breathe fire, and kill it for some nice rewards. If they haven’t figured it out already, this is probably where most players figure out that good grinding in this game involves picking off all but one of the tougher monsters and having everybody plink away ineffectually at it until everyone’s had their turn. E: or you have them defend for a turn in a mechanic the game never explains.

But there’s more to the Highroad then random encounters.





Yes, I am Yuna.





Lucil: There have been reports of a large fiend appearing in this area, with a taste for chocobos. Do take care, Summoner Yuna, if you are to rent any chocobos.

I appreciate the warning. We will take care.

Lucil: That’s all we can ask.

Elma: Our prayers are with you.

… We should go kill it.

Why?

What, and just let it run around and eat chocobos? How long until it starts eating people, too? Come on, man, it’s the right thing to do.

Auron starts laughing under his breath.

What?

Jecht said that a lot, too. And every time he said it, it meant trouble for Braska and me.

A little bit further down the road, we run into another cutscene.



Some old city?

Elderly Man: Correct. Many centuries ago, this was a fortification at the heart of a great machina city that sits where Luca does today.

We left the city six hours ago.

Elderly Man: Indeed; modern Luca is built on the ruins of its port alone. But as mighty as it was, that city was razed during the Machina War – and its conquerors were, in turn, destroyed by what they unleashed. Humans may struggle to defeat machina, but no machina can defeat Sin.

But Sin can be defeated by humans.

Elderly Man: Well said!



Maechen: I am on a journey, studying the history of our world, Spira, seeking its stories and secrets. My travels have taken me to many places, and I have learned many things to share with passers-by. I do hope we meet again.

This isn’t the last time we’ll run into Maechen, and curiously, it isn’t actually the first; there’s a cutscene featuring more of his narration a little while back along the path. He takes the time to tell us that this road was named after the first Crusader, who was declared a heretic after forming the organization and marched down this road to negotiate their place in the church hierarchy. But I won’t stand by this kind of sequential error, so I refuse to grant it a formal place in my narrative :colbert:.



gently caress these things. Bombs attack with fire magic, but every time they attack you or take a hit, they swell up a little bit; after three expansions, they explode, dealing massive fire damage to the whole party. In this game you have to use one of Tidus’s special abilities to flee battle, and I just run every time I see one. You can also have Kimahri Lancet their self-destruct move off them if you hate him and also yourself.



Woman with Fascinating Accessories: My name is Belgemine. You are…?

Yuna.

Belgemine: Ah, the high summoner’s daughter. I’ve heard much of you. But you are still fresh on the road, are you not?

:hai:

Belgemine: As your elder, I might have a few things to teach you. Let us see which are stronger. My aeons or yours. A one-on-one match. Not to the death, of course. What do you say?



If you accept, she summons up her Ifrit (the game reuses Yuna’s summoning animation and just cuts her model out of it), and makes you throw out your Valefor against it. Normally, your best bet is to try and Blizzard it to death before it breaks you, but if you have a full Overdrive bar, it’s more than enough to OHKO it on the spot. Pretty easy, as far as PokéAeon battles go.

Since there isn’t any better time to bring it up, Yuna’s Overdrive, Grand Summon, summons an Aeon with a full Overdrive bar :effort:. Not particularly flashy, but it can be terrifying since that full bar temporarily replaces whatever used to be there. If you’ve already filled up the Aeon’s Overdrive before you start the fight, you can use Grand Summon the chain two Overdrives together.



Belgemine: You show promise. With more training, you could defeat Sin.

Thank you! But are you not trying to defeat Sin too.

Belgemine: I cannot. Or should I say… I was not able to. Farewell, Yuna. We’ll meet again.

… Oh.

As a reward, we get a very nice accessory that goes straight onto Yuna. This won’t be the last time we see her; she’ll pop up periodically to test our Aeon knowledge.

Maybe one screen away from the entrance to the Highroad, you can find a blitzball sitting in the middle of the road. Did you think it was a chance to get another hilariously broken blitzball move? Nope! If you interact with it…



… Off it goes.



Wait, that was yours? I –

Boy: :cry:

If you talk to this kid before stealing his toy, he gives you an item that cures any party members who have been turned to stone – something very rare at this point in the game. If you don’t, then clearly you feel entitled to mess with other people’s property for your own amusement.

rear end in a top hat.



The child turns and runs to Yuna.

Little Girl: You’re a summoner?

Yes. My name is Yuna.

Little girl: I’m Calli.

Nice to meet you, Calli.



Yes, very soon.

The little girl cheers, hugs her (to her discomfort), and runs back to her mother.

Mother: We’re looking forward to another Calm, My Lady Summoner.

We won’t rest until Sin is gone.

Mother: Then best of luck to you all.



So, uh, quick question.



It comes after a summoner defeats Sin, and it lasts until Sin reappears.

Wait. I was wondering about that. So Sin just reappears after a while, even after you beat it? Sounds kind of like a –

Don’t call it a waste of time.

:stare:

Calms may not last very long. My father’s only lasted eight years. But every minute that goes by during a Calm is a phenomenal blessing. Have you seen what happens to people when you bring up Sin? You were THERE when we arrived at Kilika! Just because we aren't hearing about it right now doesn’t mean Sin isn’t present! Even when it ISN’T killing and destroying, it’s still present in Spira, traveling the waterways. Did you know it can swim up rivers, even small ones? Did you know that it’s been seen to FLY? NOTHING is safe from Sin – unless summoners bring the Calm. Even if it only lasts for a short while –

Yuna.

– that’s time families can spend mending themselves, it’s time communities can use to rebuild, it’s time trade can blossom and bind Spira together!

Yuna!

Even if it only lasts for a little while, it lets people sleep peacefully in their beds at night and raise their children without fearing they’ll all be dead the next day! It would be worth it even if it only gave SECONDS –

YUNA!

For – w-what?

:psyduck:

I think you broke Tidus.

Oh, oh no! My apologies!

She bows low.

I’m so, so sorry about that. I just… I feel very strongly about it and I have a habit of going on when I get worked up about something…

No, honestly, I’m feeling kinda fired up right now! I got your back, Yuna.

Thank you :shobon:.

(It was like flipping a switch. I’d seen bits and pieces of that before – Yuna the calm, professional sender was a lot different than her normal self. But this is the first time I’d ever seen her really cut loose. What she said that day stuck in my head. It’s been there ever since.)

Falconier111 fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Apr 12, 2021

MightyPretenders
Feb 21, 2014

Wow, our retired Blitzball Captain pal might be one of the more comedic characters in the group, but I've never seen anyone call him Wacko before. (The Auron tutorial)

MightyPretenders fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Mar 13, 2021

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



It's poorly explained in the game, but external media says that Calms are getting shorter over time, with the first one lasting hundreds of years.

Personally I think it's an unnecessary detail and it's enough for Calms to be variable in length. Having them get shorter would drive home the fact that this is an unsustainable system, but even other people in this game who bring up criticisms don't bring this up at all, making it feel like this was something decided after the fact.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Ooh, that Mi'ihen Highroad remix really is nice!

bewilderment posted:

It's poorly explained in the game, but external media says that Calms are getting shorter over time, with the first one lasting hundreds of years.

Personally I think it's an unnecessary detail and it's enough for Calms to be variable in length. Having them get shorter would drive home the fact that this is an unsustainable system, but even other people in this game who bring up criticisms don't bring this up at all, making it feel like this was something decided after the fact.

Huh, I could've sworn I'd heard the total opposite somewhere, that calms used to be pitifully short like for only one year at best, and Braska's was actually a new record.

Snorb
Nov 19, 2010

Falconier111 posted:

i hate bombs

NulFire negates the Bomb's Self Destruct ability, but I don't think you get AP or gil when it explodes.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

Bifauxnen posted:

Huh, I could've sworn I'd heard the total opposite somewhere, that calms used to be pitifully short like for only one year at best, and Braska's was actually a new record.

I remember the ever shortening Calms. Sins been around for 1000 years and there's only been 6 or so Calms.

derra
Dec 29, 2012
It's been years but I'm pretty sure defend gave you AP so you could just keep a weak enemy alive and have everyone block.

Snorb
Nov 19, 2010
Yeah, just so long as a party member does something, even if it's just defending or swapping equipment, they participate in combat.

(Switching a party member in and then immediately swapping them back out is not participating in combat.)

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

derra posted:

It's been years but I'm pretty sure defend gave you AP so you could just keep a weak enemy alive and have everyone block.

Snorb posted:

Yeah, just so long as a party member does something, even if it's just defending or swapping equipment, they participate in combat.

(Switching a party member in and then immediately swapping them back out is not participating in combat.)

... They never mentioned how to defend in the tutorials :negative:

MightyPretenders posted:

Wow, our retired Blitzball Captain pal might be one of the more comedic characters in the group, but I've never seen anyone call him Wacko before. (The Auron tutorial)

:doh:, fixed

bewilderment posted:

It's poorly explained in the game, but external media says that Calms are getting shorter over time, with the first one lasting hundreds of years.

I remember hearing this too, but I wasn’t able to find any information about relative Calm lengths when doing my research. Can anybody point to somewhere specific?

cant cook creole bream
Aug 15, 2011
I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Falconier111 posted:

... They never mentioned how to defend in the tutorials :negative:

That's absolutely false. If I remember right, you are actually forced to defend when Rikku and Tidus fight that octopus and it goes around the pillar the first time.

derra
Dec 29, 2012

cant cook creole bream posted:

That's absolutely false. If I remember right, you are actually forced to defend when Rikku and Tidus fight that octopus and it goes around the pillar the first time.

Nah I just rebought the game and played this bit. There’s one of those special actions to sit and recover 50 hp.

Defend is triangle on a PS.

Black Robe
Sep 12, 2017

Generic Magic User


Falconier111 posted:

I remember hearing this too, but I wasn’t able to find any information about relative Calm lengths when doing my research. Can anybody point to somewhere specific?

From what I can gather, since Braska's Calm lasted less than a year a lot of people assume that clearly this means the Calms are getting shorter, because if they've always been only a few months long - and there have only been 5 recorded - then nobody would bother, despite Yuna's passionate speeches. And also Sin would likely have managed to destroy enough of civilisation that the population wouldn't be able to recover.

Also the Calms are happening more frequently, so it's a valid assumption that they're getting shorter - Gandof was 400 years ago, Ohalland was 230 years ago, Yocun was 100 years ago, and Braska just 10 years ago.

[let's not concern ourselves with this detail just yet, thanks! -fedule]

As with any video game question ever there's a lot of bickering and pointless debate going on, but there's no concrete evidence said in-game anywhere or in any of the material Square Enix produced.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Mar 13, 2021

bewilderment
Nov 22, 2007
man what



Yeah, I'll cop to 'Calms are being shorter' being fanon, my mistake. Calms are getting closer together, according to the official Ultimania timeline produced by Squenix, but no mention of them being shorter.

It looks like there's people in this thread who are reading without knowing any plot ahead of time so I'll abstain from plot analysis until much later.

FeyerbrandX
Oct 9, 2012

On one hand it makes more sense that Sin is gone for a year, then comes back as smol Sin and just rifles through peoples trash or kicking their blitzballs off the road (holy poo poo I see the resemblance now, Sin IS Jecht!) Then grows up to be a doom whale. Sin is just growing up faster and faster each time. So the Sin Cycle is "HOLY gently caress WE'RE GONNA DIE!" "Calm." "poo poo Sin's back get the broom honey" and that broom time is getting shorter.

On the other hand there is one very big reason why this can't be true but yeah that has to wait.

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

Think that third paragraph needs spoilers bro

That said, I seem to remember Calms lasting... Ten years? According to... Something. But that’s long enough to do some serious rebuilding before it comes back. Plus, I get the impression that Sin destroying a town only happens every few decades and even then most of the inhabitants survive. The big issue is that it prevents infrastructure and consistently traumatizes every generation.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Yeah, the stated numbers make little sense ad are really inflated.

Drawn down the timeline to 250/300 years since Sin first appeared (so a Calm every 50 years on average with the 6 high summoners we know of) with each Calm lasting 5 to 20 years and it would fit perfectly in my opinion.

400 years for Yunalesca's Calm (which I seem to recall being the numbers thrown around in the extra materials) makes no sense, for a lot of reasons (most of those are spoilers though).

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!

Falconier111 posted:

Think that third paragraph needs spoilers bro

That said, I seem to remember Calms lasting... Ten years? According to... Something. But that’s long enough to do some serious rebuilding before it comes back. Plus, I get the impression that Sin destroying a town only happens every few decades and even then most of the inhabitants survive. The big issue is that it prevents infrastructure and consistently traumatizes every generation.

I feel like it keeps changing, to be honest. I remember it somewhere being said that a Calm lasts 10 years, then during the last LP I looked it up on the wiki and I remember explicitly reading at least the first Calm was a couple hundred years so honestly (but that seems to have changed, too since then), I don't know what to believe

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E
The next update is ready, but we've got like two posts left on this page and I would really, really prefer not to close a page with an update. Can somebody give me an assist so I'm not, like, tripleposting?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Rabbi Raccoon
Mar 31, 2009

I stabbed you dude!
Did y'all hear who won the Blitzball tournament this year?

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply