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Nehru the Damaja posted:Regarding the courtly love stuff, do you suppose such a thing could have a 5e oath without becoming toxic incel poo poo, so long as the tenets were carefully made and it included use of player safety tools? I suppose it would be theoretically possible, but definitely difficult and easily dismantled by players being dipshits. That said, my first thought on reading the snippets that have been posted is a paladin who's performatively devoted to some Queen or noblewoman, but then immediately balks at any suggestion on her part of having an actual romantic relationship. "M'lady, I quest outward to the highest mountain that I might sing songs of your grace and beauty from its highest peak for all the land to hear!" "So, do you, like, just want to get coffee sometime? Because you keep talking about how beautiful and amazing you think I am, and I'm not really doing anything..." "Uh...no, I...have to...wash my...steed?"
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Mar 14, 2021 00:14
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You could go either way; the main thing you want to avoid is "you lose all your powers if you ever spoil the purity of your love by having s-s-s-sex," as is the norm for such things. Probably I would just write it up as "You are devoted to a specific person you view as a paragon of honor or virtue, and you go forth to do great deeds in his or her name. The object of your adoration may or may not give a poo poo about you in return" and not make any sort of thing out of whether said relationship has sexual undertones or whatever. Works just fine for courtly love, but also for a paladin who is hopelessly loyal to the King, or a famous general, or the head of his family, or her husband or kid, or whatever.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:22
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Strikes me as more likely to work if the object of the paladin's devotion never actually appears in the campaign or, at a minimum, never actually interacts with the paladin.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:25
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Seems like romanticizing the idea of romanticizing ideas.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:42
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megane posted:You could go either way; the main thing you want to avoid is "you lose all your powers if you ever spoil the purity of your love by having s-s-s-sex," as is the norm for such things. What I like about this is the notion that it could lead to the Wife Guy Paladin.
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Mar 14, 2021 00:44
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Or have a princess who is pretty much stalking the paladin but he isn't interested.
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Mar 14, 2021 01:16
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Or have a princess who is pretty much stalking the paladin but he isn't interested. Pact of the Stalker Warlock lol
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Mar 14, 2021 01:37
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Regarding the courtly love stuff, do you suppose such a thing could have a 5e oath without becoming toxic incel poo poo, so long as the tenets were carefully made and it included use of player safety tools? Make it about devoting yourself to attempting to be one half of an impossible ideal of "love" that can never be reached because mortals aren't and can't be perfect. Your counterpart's ideal is equally impossible to reach, for the same reason. Thus you will never find an appropriate person to hopelessly devote yourself to, and everyone involved understands this and also that it isn't really about romance, love, or loving, it's about using beliefs to power up your smites so you can loot more gold pieces, and trying to be an ideal lover is better than being vengefully angry all the time or thinking real hard about trees. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 03:16
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Feywild ideas. Fairy Monk, reminds me of the days of Wizardry 7/8, also Fly Speed is based off ground speed so the faster you move on the ground the faster you move in the air. Fey Hobgolbin Mastermind Rogue for consistent bonus action Help Actions. Maybe a Gloom Stalker Ranger Owlfolk to make good use of the 90ft Darkvision and the Stealth proficiency. Thinking Swashbuckler Rogue for a Rabbitfolk, maybe with some multiclassing for other things that add to Initiative. Used to be that for a great Initiative people would multiclass Bard just for the half-proficiency on all untrained ability checks, but this is even better and doesn't require a multiclass. EDIT: Oh apparently Reliable Talent specifically works on ability checks that you add your Proficiency to, so a Swashbuckler Rogue would be using Dex+Cha+Proficiency on Initiative and then at 11th can't roll below a 10 on the check. Ryuujin fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 05:13
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Aren't you guys basically just describing a slightly reflavored oath of the crown. If the oath is towards a specific person, it mostly does what you're asking. The (creepy) rest can be RPd in.
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Mar 14, 2021 06:49
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Nehru the Damaja posted:What I like about this is the notion that it could lead to the Wife Guy Paladin. Hey guys, I’ve gotta warp up adventuring early, me and milady are shopping for a new wood burning stove for me to cook on early in the morning tomorrow.
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Mar 14, 2021 08:21
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Oh I couldn't possibly have sex with you I'm in Courtly Love with Lady Beard. Well, I and my male travelling companion of many years who is also chaste due to devotion to Lady Don't Ask Don't Tell should probably turn in. One room one bed thanks.
Splicer fucked around with this message at 11:04 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 11:00
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megane posted:You could go either way; the main thing you want to avoid is "you lose all your powers if you ever spoil the purity of your love by having s-s-s-sex," as is the norm for such things. Azathoth posted:Strikes me as more likely to work if the object of the paladin's devotion never actually appears in the campaign or, at a minimum, never actually interacts with the paladin. brb gonna write up a Paladin of Courtly Love devoted to The Lady of Pain one brief moment of "She noticed me!" while getting flayed alive
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Mar 14, 2021 11:30
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cowboy
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The Mash posted:Aren't you guys basically just describing a slightly reflavored oath of the crown. If the oath is towards a specific person, it mostly does what you're asking. The (creepy) rest can be RPd in. what is oath of the crown but a simp for monarchy
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Mar 14, 2021 14:16
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FFT posted:brb gonna write up a Paladin of Courtly Love devoted to The Lady of Pain Such a paladin would know to commit minor crimes in the hopes of living inside one of her mazes
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Mar 14, 2021 14:26
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Rutibex posted:Such a paladin would know to commit minor crimes in the hopes of living inside one of her mazes But to commit crimes in her city is to besmirch her.
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Mar 14, 2021 14:58
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Mr. Lobe posted:But to commit crimes in her city is to besmirch her.
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Mar 14, 2021 15:55
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"So why did you become an Oathbreaker Paladin?" "Big tiddy goth goddess."
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Mar 14, 2021 16:13
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A simp paladin of Loviatar who goes adventuring solely so people will beat the poo poo out of him ("NOT for sex reasons, you guys") would also be good
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Mar 14, 2021 16:19
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change my name posted:A simp paladin of Loviatar who goes adventuring solely so people will beat the poo poo out of him ("NOT for sex reasons, you guys") would also be good 
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Mar 15, 2021 05:09
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FFT posted:That's just Penance (formerly Speedball) I had to look this up because I remembered Speedball from the New Warriors and I haven't read comics in a long time. His suit has 612 internal spikes that poke him. Book of Vile Darkness poo poo right there!
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Mar 15, 2021 06:17
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The next character I roll will probably be a swashbuckler rogue / hexblade warlock. Is it worth it taking the rogue to level 5 for uncanny dodge?
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Mar 15, 2021 09:11
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Street Horrrsing posted:The next character I roll will probably be a swashbuckler rogue / hexblade warlock. Is it worth it taking the rogue to level 5 for uncanny dodge? 5th is a fine level to stop on with Rogue, but you'll be leeching a significant portion of levels from your Warlock half to do it. Also depends on the level range for your next campaign and whether or not you're willing to live life as mostly a Rogue for a while if it ends up being low level. Sounds like a decent idea overall though.
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Mar 15, 2021 09:32
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Wrong thread. Though it was Marvel Forum.
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2021 11:14
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I’m about to start running Tomb of Annihilation... one of my players is a cleric and wants to swap out armor and shield proficiency for something like monk unarmored defense. He’s playing a local from Port Nyanzaru so it makes thematic sense that clerics wouldn’t be trained in heavier armors (nobody in Chult wears it because of heat), and the math seems to come out pretty even on AC... slight advantage for real armor plus shield actually, which is kinda offset by the advantage of still having AC when woken up in the middle of the night, etc. Seems reasonable to allow... anything I’m missing?
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Mar 15, 2021 13:01
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truavatar posted:I’m about to start running Tomb of Annihilation... one of my players is a cleric and wants to swap out armor and shield proficiency for something like monk unarmored defense. He’s playing a local from Port Nyanzaru so it makes thematic sense that clerics wouldn’t be trained in heavier armors (nobody in Chult wears it because of heat), and the math seems to come out pretty even on AC... slight advantage for real armor plus shield actually, which is kinda offset by the advantage of still having AC when woken up in the middle of the night, etc. Seems reasonable to allow... anything I’m missing? Thats going to give them a big advantage if they ever need to swim or sneak around. Its also a lot lighter, if carrying weight is a thing you track. Heavy plate armor has major disadvantages, though if you are the type of DM that hand waves that stuff away it won't make a huge difference  I would personally do the jungle hex crawl from Tomb of Annihilation as a wilderness survival type scenario. That means tracking weight and food and stuff, getting more tired when marching in the hot jungle wearing plate armor. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2021 13:09
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I wonder if those advantages are offset by the reduced AC... for example, a level 1 cleric could have scale mail and a shield for 18 AC (assuming +2 dex). With unarmored defense so they get +wis to AC, so they’d cap out at 16AC.. with 15 more likely. Maybe some other story based hinderance, like they never learned to swim or something.
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Mar 15, 2021 15:00
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Street Horrrsing posted:The next character I roll will probably be a swashbuckler rogue / hexblade warlock. Is it worth it taking the rogue to level 5 for uncanny dodge? I would say no. Why are you multi-classing?
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Mar 15, 2021 15:17
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We're in Curse of Strahd, and I'm playing Devotion Paladin. We're level 7. My DM is setting up the possibility of multiclass into Warlock or Sorceror (tied into my Haunted One background) at level 9, but I'm not sure whether to go for it or not. I know CoS ends at 10-11, so I can't decide if 1-2 levels of another class are worth missing out on 3rd level spells, though I would still get 3rd level slots for smiting. This is my first time playing a Paladin in 5e, so I'm not even sure if 3rd level spells are any good. Any advice?
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Mar 15, 2021 16:18
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truavatar posted:I wonder if those advantages are offset by the reduced AC... for example, a level 1 cleric could have scale mail and a shield for 18 AC (assuming +2 dex). With unarmored defense so they get +wis to AC, so they’d cap out at 16AC.. with 15 more likely. Ah yeah thats true it would be quite a bit less AC. I like the idea of giving it to them but they have flaw they don't know how to swim  Devorum posted:We're in Curse of Strahd, and I'm playing Devotion Paladin. We're level 7. Generally I've found that getting a bunch of new at-will cantrips and first level spells is way more useful than a 3rd level spell slot, especially a paladin one. Though I guess that depends what you want to do? Those 3rd level paladin spells will make you a marginally better fight man, but the low level cantrips will make you a lot more utilitarian outside of combat.
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Mar 15, 2021 16:34
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Rutibex posted:Ah yeah thats true it would be quite a bit less AC. I like the idea of giving it to them but they have flaw they don't know how to swim If they're voluntarily taking a lower AC, why give them a drawback at all? The lower AC is already an inherent drawback.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:00
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GHOST_BUTT posted:If they're voluntarily taking a lower AC, why give them a drawback at all? The lower AC is already an inherent drawback. Philosophically if a player asks from something from me I want to ask for something in return. I'm the DM not santa claus After all they could get the monk class feature by just taking a level of monk, they are asking to break the rules a bit so they should be flexible.A flaw where someone can't swim is a role-playing opportunity. They are in a jungle, I'm sure there are more than a few NPCs who could teach them how to swim if they seek that out.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:08
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I don't know if that's a good attitude to have, especially because it isn't even to scale. They're already making themselves weaker, but now they also have to pay a DM tax to do it because you personally did not give them the pain point to write on their character sheet? Maybe I'm too lax with my willingness to bend rules, but I always go with Rules of Cool with the understanding between the players that I may have to change it again later if it proves to be problematic.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:37
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Disargeria posted:I don't know if that's a good attitude to have, especially because it isn't even to scale. They're already making themselves weaker, but now they also have to pay a DM tax to do it because you personally did not give them the pain point to write on their character sheet? I donno this really would come down to your personal group. I'm not trying to impose my tyranny on the players, but I do kind of have to referee between them. If it was up to me we would be playing level 25 epic wizards at all times The players that want homebrew options for free tend to push the power level of the group up. If I let the more enthusiastic players get away with whatever they want it would annoy the more subdued players. If someone shows up with homebrew stuff its kind of expected they will have a drawback, even if its just some funny RP bait?
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Mar 15, 2021 17:48
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A cleric losing armor and shield proficiency for Unarmored Defense seems like a fine trade to me. In fact, it's recommended in the DM's Guide as an example for how to modify classes. Granted, they go a step farther and recommend you also remove the cleric's simple weapon proficiency, but that seems like a bit too much imo.5e DM's Guide page 287 posted:You can also change armor and weapon proficiencies to reflect certain aspects of your world. For example, you could decide that the clerics of a particular deity belong to an order that forbids the accumulation of material goods, other than magic items useful for their divine mission. Such clerics carry a staff, but they are forbidden from wearing armor or using weapons other than that staff. To reflect this, you could remove the armor and weapon proficiencies for clerics of this faith, making them proficient with the quarterstaff and nothing else. You could give them a benefit to make up for the loss of proficiencies something like the monk's Unarmored Defense class feature, but presented as a divine blessing.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:55
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Unarmored Defense is one of the things that makes monks MAD -- they need as much DEX and WIS as they can get to not basically crumple immediately in combat. I agree that giving clerics that in exchange for losing armor/shield proficiency is a more than even trade and shouldn't require an additional drawback. Like, imagine that you had a monk except they had medium armor and shield proficiency instead of Unarmored Defense. Would you take that trade? I think so.
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Mar 15, 2021 18:01
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It isn't even a rule that you can't swim in heavy armor, as far as I know. That's just a commonly homebrewed thing that doesn't actually match up to reality, but people like to punish martials for existing for whatever reason.
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Mar 15, 2021 18:03
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Our Paladin wearing plate almost drown swimming around in a lake that was basically acid to everyone else in the party. That was a pretty funny use of "heavy armor can't swim." Although the DM went easy on him and let him take off his armor without the 5 minute requirement, saving him from drowning in a place where no one could save him.
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Mar 15, 2021 18:47
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Rutibex posted:Philosophically if a player asks from something from me I want to ask for something in return. I'm the DM not santa claus Do we have a bingo card for "justifications for bad GMing practices"? How is not being able to swim any more of a "role-playing opportunity" than being able to swim? Also to the original query: Classes that depend on heavy armor are ridiculously gimped in ToA with pretty much nothing to counterbalance. If you don't give the cleric something like unarmored defense as an alternative, they're not going to be able to reach the AC level the mechanics of the game assumes they should be at as a heavy armor based class. I have no idea why ToA decided it needed to further punish strength-based characters. The highest Monk-style unarmored defense will allow them to achieve is 20 if they really gear their character towards it, which is still less than the 21 a character focused on heavy armor could get to without magic items. Also take into account that unarmored defense means that the character can't benefit from any additional bonuses to AC from enchanted armor, and the monk-style unarmored defense means that they can't get the AC benefit of wielding a shield. The only major offset is that the characters are likely to get a pair of bracers of defense over the course of the module, but even then it would only give the Cleric the equivalent mechanical benefit of being able to wield a shield. KingKalamari fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 15, 2021 19:36
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The DM for the game I'm in likes to use a fumble table for natural 1 attack roles. As an extra attack/martial character enthusiast this is a bummer! Other than "make a halfling" and/or constantly staying on the lookout for advantage are there many ways for lower-level characters to reroll or bypass an undesirable die roll? e: in all other ways the group is great and the DM in particular is fantastic, this is my one grievance.
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Mar 15, 2021 20:40
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