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Huh, second house with redundant gas and electric hookups recently. Why do you want to go electric from a 2 year old gas cooktop? A cooktop will probably be hardwire, when you open up the wiring compartment there may or may not be a neutral-ground bonding strip installed, you're going to want to take it out if it is. Post pictures if you're unsure. Make sure the current rating on your new cooktop is less than 30A.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:22
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Elviscat posted:Huh, second house with redundant gas and electric hookups recently. We're switching because of the health hazards associated with indoor gas cooking, especially for our youngest who's at higher risk. I checked the amperage requirements, and our size needs 30 amps. I'll be sure to ask the thread when the new cook top arrives.
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Mar 6, 2021 20:30
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Elviscat posted:Huh, second house with redundant gas and electric hookups recently. Yeah that's neat. And being a new build, surely it's a 4-wire circuit. Guess I'll have to stop assuming that gas appliance means new circuit to go electric. 
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Mar 6, 2021 20:46
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yesterday I caught a subcontractor who was replacing a bunch of old sockets on steel trunking in some offices. his mounting solution for the socket plates was to use a screwgun to blast a variety of whatever screws he had lying around -1.5 inch timber screws, assorted self tappers, etc - directly through the trunking lids and into the birds nest of 240V cables behind it
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Mar 6, 2021 21:28
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Dual fuel was (is?) the fancy thing, perhaps it's an option when the home is being built? Gas cooktop with a electric oven.
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Mar 7, 2021 02:14
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That's exactly what's going on w/parents house. Wall mounted oven, electric only to it. Range and clothes dryer both have gas, 120V, and 240V available (range doesn't have a 240V plug installed, dryer did).Elviscat posted:Huh, second house with redundant gas and electric hookups recently. My parents house is like this too - it has 15A 120V and a gas line under the counter, along with a 2 gang blockoff plate. Since there's a 2 pole "RANGE" breaker in the breaker panel, it's probably safe to assume what's behind that plate. Built in 1994.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:16
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I just bought a medicine cabinet with a built in light and am wondering how to wire it without running afoul of Ontario electrical code.  Can I run this wire in the wall to wire it to the lighting fixture above? The whip attached to the unit states that it’s FT2 rated, and the instructions don’t show anything about wiring other than connecting line to line, neutral to neutral, and ground to ground. I know in commercial spaces FT4 is the minimum but I’m not sure if I can get away with FT2 in my house.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:52
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angryrobots posted:Yeah that's neat. And being a new build, surely it's a 4-wire circuit. Guess I'll have to stop assuming that gas appliance means new circuit to go electric. Modern gas appliances still need electric for ignitors and the clocks and other electronics. Pilot lights aren't a thing anymore. They waste a tiny bit of gas.
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Mar 7, 2021 23:59
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kid sinister posted:Modern gas appliances still need electric for ignitors and the clocks and other electronics. Pilot lights aren't a thing anymore. They waste a tiny bit of gas. Right but having a 240v outlet isn't often there. A 120v outlet was more common.
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Mar 8, 2021 00:14
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H110Hawk posted:Right but having a 240v outlet isn't often there. A 120v outlet was more common. Ya, that's what I'm used to seeing. Change is a good thing in this case, though.
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Mar 8, 2021 01:10
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My dad brought up a question that I don't know how to answer: how do I know if the wiring going to the junction box is the proper gauge for the cook top?
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Mar 8, 2021 02:15
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hooah posted:My dad brought up a question that I don't know how to answer: how do I know if the wiring going to the junction box is the proper gauge for the cook top? So you should be pretty safe if in a modern house if it was wired with a 30 amp breaker. Since your house is only 2 years old you will have color-coded cabling, look in the junction box (after killing power) and you'll be able to see a little of the cable jacketing where it enters the box, before the individual wires split out, if it's orange it's 10 gauge, which is the proper size for a 30 amp breaker and load and you're good to go. If it's black it's probably 8 gauge, even better. If you're still unsure post a picture of the inside of the junction box or circuit breaker panel and I can probably identify it by sight.
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Mar 8, 2021 02:34
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This is the drop into my house  You can see the previous owners  let these vines get up way too close. They've since been cut off at the base, so they're not growing anymore, but I'd like to get these down.Are those short sections coming in exposed cable? It seems like if that's true and those touched it would be a big deal. Regardless, how do I deal with this? Rip things down with impunity? Fiberglass ladder and be Real Careful and just do what's more then 3 feet away? Call the power company and have them turn off the power for a few minutes?
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Mar 8, 2021 19:51
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DrPossum posted:This is the drop into my house For your last question - assuming your meter is down at the bottom of the weather head, those wires are always hot. They would be turning off all of your neighbors as well. How many years have they been left to rot? If 0 I would give them a year and see what happens. Maybe wind will take them away. I'll let others talk about other options which avoid potential differences in how you handle things.
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Mar 8, 2021 20:07
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DrPossum posted:This is the drop into my house Holy poo poo, yeah that looks like bare wire on the triplex, call your utility and ask them to come out and re-terminate your drop, explain that it's a safety hazard, and it's on their drop, not your houses wiring, they should come out and redo it for free, if they try to charge you try complaining a lot. Once your service drop is properly done, you can work around it safely, obviously use a fiberglass ladder and be cautious, but if the wiring's insulated it's a minor risk.
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Mar 8, 2021 20:38
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More than likely, whoever works on it will clear the dead stuff away from the immediate area just to make it easier to work. Dunno why they skinned so much back for that little connector, the insulation only needs to clear the connector by 1/4" or so. As an aside, always work around anything utility connected with appropriate caution (as OP is doing). Assume the insulation is cracked, because it often is. I would bet that the connection there originally had the big plastic covers like you can see in the background of the neighbor's service. Also, if you notice the 2 additional house knobs, originally your house had 3 separate conductors serving it, instead of the triplex. Sometimes, even the hot legs were bare wires just like the neutral!
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Mar 8, 2021 22:52
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DrPossum posted:This is the drop into my house Sweet chocolate Christ I thought those sticks were all romex at first glance and almost stroked out.
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Mar 9, 2021 05:35
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ncumbered_by_idgits posted:Sweet chocolate Christ I thought those sticks were all romex at first glance and almost stroked out. nah, I'm in Cook County. romex is forbidden Thanks everyone for the responses! I contacted the electric company and we'll see what they do. DrPossum fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 13:00
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How the gently caress does that not ever short out during high winds?  At first I was like "oh it's just a triplex drop, the uninsulated is just the ground/neutral", then looked closer.  DO NOT loving TOUCH those vines in any way (even at the ground) until the PoCo has been out there, unless you like having someone else look up stuff like "arc flash burn treatment" and "arc flash retina damage". That's if you're very lucky; if you're not very lucky, it'll be your relatives trying to figure out where your will is, and likely someone trying to remember how to dial 0118 999 881 999 119 725 3.
randomidiot fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Mar 9, 2021 |
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Mar 9, 2021 20:49
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Alright, it looks like the wiring coming into the junction box is wrapped in a white jacket, as in the picture. Should that have thick enough wires for the cook top? I can grab my wire strippers and check the gauge that way too if need be.
hooah fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 00:53
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hooah posted:Alright, it looks like the wiring coming into the junction box is wrapped in a white jacket, as in the picture. Should that have thick enough wires for the cook top? I can grab my wire strippers and check the gauge that way too if need be. Anyway you can find the wire in the crawl space or attic and actually read the print on the insulation? That would be a way to be 100% sure of what it is.
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Mar 10, 2021 00:59
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hooah posted:Alright, it looks like the wiring coming into the junction box is wrapped in a white jacket, as in the picture. Should that have thick enough wires for the cook top? I can grab my wire strippers and check the gauge that way too if need be. Weird! That's looks like 10ga or maybe 8 wire strippers are a decent way to check, the ten hole should fit snugly around the wire, the 12 should want to bite in, test on the tip of the ground (bare) wire. If the #10 doesn't fit at all it's #8 You said your house was built 2 years ago? In the US?1
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Mar 10, 2021 01:25
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SpartanIvy posted:Anyway you can find the wire in the crawl space or attic and actually read the print on the insulation? That would be a way to be 100% sure of what it is. That's on an exterior wall, and I don't know if it would go through anywhere accessible between there and the breaker box in the garage (it's a two-story house; I'd be very surprised if they ran it through the attic for some reason, but maybe). Elviscat posted:Weird! I guess my wire strippers are a little strange. Each hole has two numbers, one on each side of the jaws. So for example 10 and 12. With that pair, I could barely slide them along the ground wire.
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Mar 10, 2021 02:12
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Sure looks like #10 to me too, strippers are a good way to check. I've seen newish white #10 romex installed somewhere but can't recall. Hutterites with a different wholesaler than most? Federal build? Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 02:21
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hooah posted:That's on an exterior wall, and I don't know if it would go through anywhere accessible between there and the breaker box in the garage (it's a two-story house; I'd be very surprised if they ran it through the attic for some reason, but maybe). #10 solid is the same size as #12 stranded. edit: so you're good Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 02:22
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I'm rewiring an exterior fixture on my house. It hasn't had power to it for years, so I'm going to run power to it. The wiring is still in place. The wires run from a junction box in the basement ceiling out to the junction box where the fixture is mounted on the exterior wall. The odd thing is, the wires leading out to the fixture were wired to only the neutral wire of an old two wire + ground romex that runs from the basement junction box over to the breaker box where it connects only to the neutral bus in the breaker box. This romex is clearly set up differently from most of the wiring. It enters the breaker box in a different knockout- on the side instead of the top- and only the neutral wire is in the breaker box. The hot wire was cut short in the sheath and taped off. And in the junction box where it connects to the light fixture wires the hot wire was also cut short. So it seems like the fixture used to get power (hot + neutral? Or maybe just the hot? why?) from one of the nearby circuits and that power wire was previously removed from the basement junction box, but for some reason the fixture was also directly wired to the breaker box with this neutral wire only setup. Is this some sort of extra safety measure because its a metallic exterior fixture? Or is this just some PO bullshit? None of the other exterior wiring fixtures, which are also metallic and also date to the construction of the house, seem to have this feature. I'd just get rid of it but I'd like to understand the reasoning before I do. Again... it's just a neutral wire directly to the bus. It's not a ground wire. Vim Fuego fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 02:55
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Vim Fuego posted:I'm rewiring an exterior fixture on my house. It hasn't had power to it for years, so I'm going to run power to it. The wiring is still in place. The wires run from a junction box in the basement ceiling out to the junction box where the fixture is mounted on the exterior wall. Is there a switch for the outdoor light that is wired up? Sounds like there isn't, just want to make sure it's just panel to jbox to light. If the hot wire is cut short in both the panel and jbox I'd assume it was abandoned for a reason and double check the viability of the run from jbox to fixture. PO might have cut the hots to prevent hooking it up again but left the neutrals as they wouldn't hurt anything.
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Mar 10, 2021 03:16
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The power line that I think it used to be attached to was switched by the front door. I say I think it used to be attached to because the wire from the front door switch was running in the direction of the junction box in the basement for the exterior light and there is absolutely nothing else it would make sense for the front door light switch to also control. This wire was disconnected either the PO or someone doing demo in the basement. I tested the wires from the basement box to the exterior box by taping a battery to them in the junction box and I got 1.5v dc outside, so the wires to the exterior look good. Edit: And it must have been switched wherever it got power. The fixture doesn't have a photocell or motion sensor or anything. And they wouldn't have built it to be on 24/7 Vim Fuego fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 03:20
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Vim Fuego posted:The power line that I think it used to be attached to was switched by the front door. I say I think it used to be attached to because the wire from the front door switch was running in the direction of the junction box in the basement for the exterior light and there is absolutely nothing else it would make sense for the front door light switch to also control. This wire was disconnected either the PO or someone doing demo in the basement. 1. When you tested the basement jbox to fixture (box) was the switch on? Or is the wiring to the presumed exterior switch completely removed? It would be strange to have a no-neutral switch run from the basement to the switch (that has been removed) as this would be an unusual wiring method in the first place. 2. I'm assuming you have a probe tester. Instead of hooking a battery up, you can wire-nut two wires together and check for continuity (Ohms) on the other end. As a note, you'll get a reading when measuring hot to neutral on a circuit that has a incandescent bulb or 120V heat circuit, and between neutral and ground as they are bonded upstream. Never do this on a live circuit. 3. I guess to really diagnose you'll need to confirm the wiring runs between basement jbox, possible switch, and fixture box to map things out. Basically, unhook everything and confirm that the wires are running like you think. I'm assuming the run from panel to basement jbox is visible/obvious. 4. Just want to reiterate that cut off and taped wires generally mean that someone didn't want it hooked up again but didn't care/know enough to remove it completely (maybe I'm over-playing how short they are in my head). I'd want to make sure there is no short (continuity) between ground and hot, and neutral and hot (with bulbs removed) before energizing anything.
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Mar 10, 2021 04:49
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This is an outdoor fixture with wire running underground to it, correct? I've had horrible luck with those things, broken or shorted wiring, corrosion so bad it can't be corrected, as Blackbeer said, there's usually a reason wiring is abandoned. E: Jesus gently caress that typo. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 05:13
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Thanks for your help! 1. When you tested the basement jbox to fixture (box) was the switch on? Or is the wiring to the presumed exterior switch completely removed? It would be strange to have a no-neutral switch run from the basement to the switch (that has been removed) as this would be an unusual wiring method in the first place. The wiring to the presumed exterior switch was removed from this junction box long ago. There are only two sets of wires going into the junction box. I can visually trace the one set of neutral only wires from the junction box to the breaker box. I can visually trace the other set of wires to where it goes into a hole beneath the exterior wall. 2. I'm assuming you have a probe tester. Instead of hooking a battery up, you can wire-nut two wires together and check for continuity (Ohms) on the other end. As a note, you'll get a reading when measuring hot to neutral on a circuit that has a incandescent bulb or 120V heat circuit, and between neutral and ground as they are bonded upstream. Never do this on a live circuit. I have tested them. When they are not connected, there is infinite resistance. When they are wire nutted together there is 0 ohms resistance. 3. I guess to really diagnose you'll need to confirm the wiring runs between basement jbox, possible switch, and fixture box to map things out. Basically, unhook everything and confirm that the wires are running like you think. I'm assuming the run from panel to basement jbox is visible/obvious. I don't think the switch has anything to do with it at this point. My plan is to wire it for constant power and put a fixture with a photocell/light sensor outside so it just turns on when it gets dark. From the junction box to the exterior, I am satisfied by my test for continuity with the wire nut and the test with the battery taped to the wires. The wires run directly from the junction box to the exterior and don't connect to any other powered circuit in between. 4. Just want to reiterate that cut off and taped wires generally mean that someone didn't want it hooked up again but didn't care/know enough to remove it completely (maybe I'm over-playing how short they are in my head). I'd want to make sure there is no short (continuity) between ground and hot, and neutral and hot (with bulbs removed) before energizing anything. That makes sense. I can visually trace the one set of neutral only wires from the junction box to the breaker box. Here's the junction box in the basement ceiling. The neutral only wire is on the left. You can see the hot wire was cut short. The wires to the exterior light are on the right. The neutral only white wire was attached to the white wire to the exterior light.  Here's the breaker box. It's the grey one marked 'GROUND WIRE AN' that enters the breaker box at the lower cutout. The black wire has been cut short and taped, so only the white wire goes anywhere. It is screwed into the neutral bus.  Given all this, my theory is that as built the front door light switch controlled power to the front door light and also switched power to the wire to the basement and over to this junction box. From there, out to the exterior junction box and the fixture I'm currently working on. It seems like the neutral from the basement junction was just... additional? Or they ran the hot only from the front door light switch for some weird reason? And then needed to run the neutral directly. It just doesn't make sense for the fixture to ever have had constant, unswitched power because it would have been on 24/7. It doesn't have a photosensor or a motion sensor. So it looks like the neutral only wire was installed that way from the beginning, like the black was never in place. quote:This is an outdoor fixture with wire rubbing yourself to it, correct? I have tested the wires from the basement junction box to the exterior junction box with the probe. No voltage and infinite resistance. I have wire nutted them together and 0 resistance. I taped a battery to them in the basement junction box and got 1.5v dc at the exterior. They look visually fine. The exterior junction box is dry and there is no corrosion on the ends of the wires. Is there any other way to further ascertain the condition of the wire inside the wall? If I had to I could use the old wire to fish a new one through, but I'd like to avoid that project if I can.
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Mar 10, 2021 06:03
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Sounds about as good as it gets, I'd remove that wire with a hacked off hot, run 120V and a switch or whatever to it and fire it up. If you're getting infinite resistance with the wires open and 0 ohms with it shorted the wire should be fine, the only other thing you could do is megger it, but that'd be ridiculous. E: to be explicit I would ignore the PO fuckery neutral only poo poo. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 06:22
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Well drat. No idea what's going on here, you're not kidding when you said they clipped the hot wire off. The only possible reason I can think of (in the PO's shoes) would that they wanted to add an exterior light but didn't have a neutral at that switch box. I've never seen anything like this. Just to be clear, this is all assuming there is no (pertinent) wiring at the switch box. If you can confirm that there's no short in the wiring, and you have a connection between the basement and the fixture box regardless of the switch box, and you can get enough slack to bare the black wire and wire things together, and you're cool with controlling the new light off a photo-eye/motion sensor (a good choice), and everything is properly overcurrent protected, then go for it. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Mar 10, 2021 |
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Mar 10, 2021 06:34
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Blackbeer posted:Well drat. No idea what's going on here, you're not kidding when you said they clipped the hot wire off. The only possible reason I can think of (in the PO's shoes) would that they wanted to add an exterior light but didn't have a neutral at that switch box. I bet you that was a switch leg only, and they wanted to put in an outlet or some poo poo, so they ran that neutral only wire, then ripped it out at some point.
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Mar 10, 2021 06:44
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Yep. Awesome. I think we'll just chalk it up to PO fuckery, different layers of contractors, and chaos. I'll take out the hacked up wire and run power from another circuit.
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Mar 10, 2021 06:46
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Elviscat posted:I bet you that was a switch leg only, and they wanted to put in an outlet or some poo poo, so they ran that neutral only wire, then ripped it out at some point. That's just as likely as my "added exterior light" theory I think. Wild to use switch legs when the switch is usually so close to the ext. light. I think it looks like I reply to posts as if you haven't replied; I'm just super slow and forget to check updates before hitting the button.
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Mar 10, 2021 07:03
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I need to reroute the conductor that bonds the ground of my electrical panel to the copper water pipe where it enters the house. A bunch of the conductor is currently in finished space in a heavy-duty rigid metal conduit. If I put it above the ceiling do I have to use conduit? If not, the existing conductor is uninsulated at least at the part that runs through the conduit. Would I need to replace it with an insulated wire?
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Mar 12, 2021 13:56
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mcgreenvegtables posted:If I put it above the ceiling do I have to use conduit? Copper un-insulated grounding electrode conductors in finished spaces are fine. #6 and bigger can be out in the open. #8 and smaller has to be protected (conduit) where exposed to damage. When either is run through a metal conduit that conduit is required to be bonded. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Mar 12, 2021 |
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Mar 12, 2021 15:17
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Blackbeer posted:Copper un-insulated grounding electrode conductors in finished spaces are fine. Okay, great. So sounds like I can just reuse the conductor in there without the conduit now that it's going to be protected above the drywall. Thanks!
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Mar 13, 2021 01:05
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So I have what may be a stupid question. I have two lights on my basement stairs which are switched by a pair of three-way switches. That is, either switch turns both lights on or off. As far as I can tell the wiring is substantially similar to this diagram: I was hoping to replace the switch at the top of the stairs with a combination three-way switch and outlet. I found one I thought would work but I'm having trouble figuring out if it would work in my situation. The outlet I was looking at is this one: https://amzn.to/3eDz5rB I found the installation instructions which has this wiring diagram:  The switch I have currently installed has three wires and a ground running to it. Is this going to work?
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Mar 14, 2021 14:10
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