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SKULL.GIF posted:Somehow it seems to always come back to trying to find a reason to not engage, finding some sort of crippling flaw that justifies giving up and quitting. There's an instinctive reflex for goons to decide that they're above it all and that they're actually in the correct for wallowing in their own misery saying "Oh we couldn't have done anything". Similar language in this following quote: You would still need to replace enough politicians to have a direct majority, which, as mentioned, is completely insane. The left is not going to get 50+ Senators. The only remotely plausible options are to either have a minority that is willing to work as a separate entity from the Democratic Party or to directly elect someone President. I think that you guys are looking at this like "we won some seats, therefore we can keep doing this until we have a majority" without actually thinking about what that would really require.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:59
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I kind of feel like its moronic to go after the primary win in states that a DEM hasn't won for president since i've been alive. Seriously the last time a dem won there was Kennedy. It seems like maximizing your campaign in states that are purple or that dems regularly win seems the most important. Red states are stretch goals for the general.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:00
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MysteriousStranger posted:Sanders spent his time up till Obama's election still railing that immigration is a gift to the Koch brothers, and the Democrats need to drop all that stuff about sex/gender/women/minority identity politics and focus on the "working class" when that was code for "blue collar white heterosexual Christian men". 
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Mar 14, 2021 21:00
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We all remember when James Clyburn refused to endorse Bernie because Bernie refused to endorse "Abolish ICE."
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Mar 14, 2021 21:03
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/ Welcome how to socialist used to roll and most still do. It's flat out not compatible with progressive social values now.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:05
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MysteriousStranger posted:focus on the "working class" when that was code for "blue collar white heterosexual Christian men Horse poo poo.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:06
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MysteriousStranger posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/ not helping capitalists consolidate a source of cheap, vulnerable labor to exploit, and extract even more profit from, is the real racism
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Mar 14, 2021 21:08
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MysteriousStranger posted:They would not have voted for him. Sanders spent his time up till Obama's election still railing that immigration is a gift to the Koch brothers, and the Democrats need to drop all that stuff about sex/gender/women/minority identity politics and focus on the "working class" when that was code for "blue collar white heterosexual Christian men". For people 40 and over the moment you mention doing things by class and not identity they drat well know that's code for rolling things back to the pre-ww2 cultural standard or at least giving up defending that ground to get another agenda. yes, good job, there's no people of color who are class focused intellectuals, AOC is the first minority to use the word 'class' without bursting into flame.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:09
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MysteriousStranger posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/ It 100% is because his point is wall street loves the pathetic form of 'reform' we keep getting because it lets them keep immigrants as a permanent slave labor class, this is a point made by those immigrants constantly you dumb motherfucker
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Mar 14, 2021 21:11
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Latinos are probably the most "pro-socialist" group in the US. Bernie did well with them. If a socialist wins a local election there's a good chance it's in a Latino area. Chicago's "DSA" aldermen are mostly Latino for example. Politicians focus on anti-communist groups like Cuban-Americans and Venezuelan-Americans, but ignore the millions of people forced into the US by economic dislocation.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:11
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MysteriousStranger posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/07/30/bernie-sanders-criticizes-open-borders-at-hispanic-chamber-of-commerce/ is this stupidity or just disingenuous trolling I can't tell anymore
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Mar 14, 2021 21:12
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spacetoaster posted:Horse poo poo. He's got multiple quotes on it over the years. Leftists and liberals went to war over if the part was going to abandon social issues and focus on economics or if they were going to secure social progress and tell the working class that refused to live with the post 60s changes to pound sand. Social issues won. Until the demographics in this country change that situation is not going to change.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:12
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MysteriousStranger posted:They would not have voted for him. Sanders spent his time up till Obama's election still railing that immigration is a gift to the Koch brothers, and the Democrats need to drop all that stuff about sex/gender/women/minority identity politics and focus on the "working class" when that was code for "blue collar white heterosexual Christian men". For people 40 and over the moment you mention doing things by class and not identity they drat well know that's code for rolling things back to the pre-ww2 cultural standard or at least giving up defending that ground to get another agenda. I think you're overestimating how much voter's care about things like that, as opposed to just personal relationships and community. Any politician's record can be overlooked if you hire a few people in each SC county to essentially make friends, go to community events, and have personal conversations with individuals. There were years and millions of dollars between late 2016 and early 2020 where Bernie could've done this.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:12
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'this bill is finding an easy course through congress because the moneyed interests in america understand that, either intentionally or not, but making one's immigration status entirely tied to employment while providing no actual employment protection or workers' rights means any given business can treat immigrants as not only a cudgel to use to hurt their workers and foster resentment but also as a slave class they can exploit' 'this, to me, is what the KKK thinks'.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:12
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MysteriousStranger posted:He's got multiple quotes on it over the years. Leftists and liberals went to war over if the part was going to abandon social issues and focus on economics or if they were going to secure social progress and tell the working class that refused to live with the post 60s changes to pound sand. Social issues won. what in the gently caress is this drivel
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Mar 14, 2021 21:13
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sexpig by night posted:yes, good job, there's no people of color who are class focused intellectuals, AOC is the first minority to use the word 'class' without bursting into flame. Younger generation. The situation won't change until the boomers are gone and genx is on it's way out, we have 20+ years till we can combine social and economic issues and effectively win consistently. That is the problem with our politics.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:13
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sexpig by night posted:nah Clyburn was never gonna endorse him and he's the kingmaker there. He coulda played for 2nd harder but it was always Joe's state. Even if he doesn't win, a close loss does not create the narrative of "BIDENS RACE NOW" going into super Tuesday. Maybe the centrist voltron still happens but super Tuesday looks a lot more favorable to him than what happened.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:13
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MysteriousStranger posted:He's got multiple quotes on it over the years. Leftists and liberals went to war over if the part was going to abandon social issues and focus on economics or if they were going to secure social progress and tell the working class that refused to live with the post 60s changes to pound sand. Social issues won. please source your quotes
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Mar 14, 2021 21:14
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MysteriousStranger posted:He's got multiple quotes on it over the years. Leftists and liberals went to war over if the part was going to abandon social issues and focus on economics or if they were going to secure social progress and tell the working class that refused to live with the post 60s changes to pound sand. Social issues won. no we did not, liberals lied and did poo poo like 'will breaking up the banks cure racism????' and did a complete parody of intersectional politics and then when any leftist said 'what...no...' they went 'wow so you'd let black people go back to segregation for your economic issues, hosed up of you' and then drooling idiots like you went 'wow, this war is epic'.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:14
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MysteriousStranger posted:Younger generation. The situation won't change until the boomers are gone and genx is on it's way out, we have 20+ years till we can combine social and economic issues and effectively win consistently. That is the problem with our politics. ah, yes, demographics are destiny. that will definitely work this time. if you're gonna keep dropping stinkers like this, stop posting
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Mar 14, 2021 21:15
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MysteriousStranger posted:Younger generation. The situation won't change until the boomers are gone and genx is on it's way out, we have 20+ years till we can combine social and economic issues and effectively win consistently. That is the problem with our politics. do you think Cornell West is like, a zoomer?
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Mar 14, 2021 21:15
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MysteriousStranger posted:They would not have voted for him. Sanders spent his time up till Obama's election still railing that immigration is a gift to the Koch brothers, and the Democrats need to drop all that stuff about sex/gender/women/minority identity politics and focus on the "working class" when that was code for "blue collar white heterosexual Christian men". For people 40 and over the moment you mention doing things by class and not identity they drat well know that's code for rolling things back to the pre-ww2 cultural standard or at least giving up defending that ground to get another agenda. ignoring how dumb the rest of this is, waiting 30 years to fix things is not compatible with continued industrial society
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Mar 14, 2021 21:15
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World War Mammories posted:what in the gently caress is this drivel Mysterious stranger thinks bernie was coopted by the Russians and shares a base with trump. He is to be ignored
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Mar 14, 2021 21:15
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Nichael posted:I think you're overestimating how much voter's care about things like that, as opposed to just personal relationships and community. Any politician's record can be overlooked if you hire a few people in each SC county to essentially make friends, go to community events, and have personal conversations with individuals. There were years and millions of dollars between late 2016 and early 2020 where Bernie could've done this. He did well among the sub 40 group. Which goes to the issue, this is a generational thing which is why we are 20 years out from a change at least. Older groups still remember the fights before and the old lines. Young people don't see them among their group. He wasn't going to do well among the older group he has a history.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:15
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MysteriousStranger posted:He did well among the sub 40 group. Which goes to the issue, this is a generational thing which is why we are 20 years out from a change at least. Older groups still remember the fights before and the old lines. Young people don't see them among their group. He wasn't going to do well among the older group he has a history. Older voters are not inexplicably going to remember a maybe questionable quote from 2007. Older voters aren't all seeing seers of time and space, driven mad by the sheer amount of political minutia their minds contain, like Cylon Basestar AIs. Voters across demographic lines tend to be persuadable through much more mundane methods, such as "Oh that nice person came to my door/retirement community and talked to me about why Medicare for All makes sense, and then told me that the other candidates don't support it.... Also they made me laugh a few times and said I have a nice dog. I should vote for Bernie." Edit: I should emphasize that the hypothetical nice canvassers should probably have stopped by quite a few times between late 2016 and the primary. And they should have actually built meaningful relationships with voters, not just "vote Bernie, bye!" Bernie was more capable of pulling that off than any politician in recent memory. His fundraising apparatus was incredibly good, and he had a massive volunteer army. The resources were used poorly. Nichael has issued a correction as of 21:22 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 21:19
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Nichael posted:Older voters are not inexplicably going to remember a maybe questionable quote from 2007. Older voters aren't all seeing seers of time and space, driven mad by the sheer amount of political minutia their minds contain, like Cylon Basestar AIs. They did do that and he still got trounced. The diverse class based revolution was always something dependent on the older generation croaking. Just as getting more senate seats that aren't filled by assholes and getting more AOCs in the house. The courts are now an issue as well. It wasn't going to happen in 2016 or 2020. And everyone who lived through the 60's, 70's, and 80's old enough to remember it is scared for life over those battles. poo poo takes time! Relics from the past with a history of saying problematic things are not the best leaders for change. News at 11.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:25
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MysteriousStranger posted:They did do that and he still got trounced. The diverse class based revolution was always something dependent on the older generation croaking. Just as getting more senate seats that aren't filled by assholes and getting more AOCs in the house. The courts are now an issue as well. It wasn't going to happen in 2016 or 2020. And everyone who lived through the 60's, 70's, and 80's old enough to remember it is scared for life over those battles. they didn't do that though, at least not in any meaningful sense. admittedly, I'm in a state that doesn't loving matter, but it is still striking to me that as of Fall 2019, the Bernie team barely had any way to meaningfully use his many zealot activists in my area. his campaign even made volunteers pay for their own fliers to hand out (and they weren't cheap, they were like $30 for a pack of thirty). he simply did not use his resources well, in a campaign where it was critical to run with emotional appeals and an organized volunteer apparatus.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:27
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MysteriousStranger posted:They did do that and he still got trounced. The diverse class based revolution was always something dependent on the older generation croaking. Just as getting more senate seats that aren't filled by assholes and getting more AOCs in the house. The courts are now an issue as well. It wasn't going to happen in 2016 or 2020. And everyone who lived through the 60's, 70's, and 80's old enough to remember it is scared for life over those battles. shut the gently caress up moron
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Mar 14, 2021 21:28
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MysteriousStranger posted:They did do that and he still got trounced. The diverse class based revolution was always something dependent on the older generation croaking. Just as getting more senate seats that aren't filled by assholes and getting more AOCs in the house. The courts are now an issue as well. It wasn't going to happen in 2016 or 2020. And everyone who lived through the 60's, 70's, and 80's old enough to remember it is scared for life over those battles. who'd you vote for
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Mar 14, 2021 21:28
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sexpig by night posted:who'd you vote for Sanders in the primary Biden in the general. I also knew that Sanders was over at that point but oh well.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:29
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really queer Christmas posted:Mysterious stranger thinks bernie was coopted by the Russians and shares a base with trump. He is to be ignored they should be ignored because they're MIGF
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Mar 14, 2021 21:29
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MysteriousStranger posted:Sanders in the primary Biden in the general. I also knew that Sanders was over at that point but oh well. sorry you voted for an antediluvian rapist but pretending like you are actually very smart and incisive and pragmatic about how to properly do politics wont change that fact
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Mar 14, 2021 21:30
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Nichael posted:they didn't do that though, at least not in any meaningful sense. admittedly, I'm in a state that doesn't loving matter, but it is still striking to me that as of Fall 2019, the Bernie team barely had any way to meaningfully use his many zealot activists in my area. his campaign even made volunteers pay for their own fliers to hand out (and they weren't cheap, they were like $30 for a pack of thirty). I'm in VA which is a swing state to an extent and they were all over here despite the fact that he was going to get clobbered due to diverse demographics and upper incomes among the group he did best among. He got crushed. He also didn't have a "protest" vote option to run against.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:31
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MysteriousStranger posted:Relics from the past with a history of saying problematic things are not the best leaders for change. News at 11. the bolded part is true btw (not so much the un-bolded part). bernie is a very old man who only found himself in the spot of national leftist leader because the left has been toothless since at least the early 1970s. he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with, but there was no one else, and there still isn't.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:31
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:they should be ignored because they're MIGF oh lol in that case someone get a glass to trap him under
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Mar 14, 2021 21:31
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Nichael posted:they didn't do that though, at least not in any meaningful sense. admittedly, I'm in a state that doesn't loving matter, but it is still striking to me that as of Fall 2019, the Bernie team barely had any way to meaningfully use his many zealot activists in my area. his campaign even made volunteers pay for their own fliers to hand out (and they weren't cheap, they were like $30 for a pack of thirty). Same thing happened in WA. He won it in 2016, lost it in 2020. In 2016 I hosted parties and they sent me free stuff to give out to people to get people pumped about volunteering and poo poo and in 2020, a month out from our vote date and with people already having their ballots in hand because we're all mail in voting, I would have had to go online to buy anything to use for canvassing on my own. Obviously COVID was a factor but there was literally ZERO utilization of people like me. I tried to get on the dialer a few times but it felt like it was pretty hosed up. There was a bunch of time waster poo poo like "become a super volunteer manager!" or some poo poo they invited me to but it was like 16 hours of bullshit and then the campaign officially gave up like a week later anyway. I realized that was probably around the week that I gave in and started helping with the Jess campaign. I was depressed AF. silicone thrills has issued a correction as of 21:34 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 21:32
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MysteriousStranger posted:I'm in VA which is a swing state to an extent and they were all over here despite the fact that he was going to get clobbered due to diverse demographics and upper incomes among the group he did best among. He got crushed. He also didn't have a "protest" vote option to run against.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:34
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Nichael posted:the bolded part is true btw (not so much the un-bolded part). bernie is a very old man who only found himself in the spot of national leftist leader because the left has been toothless since at least the early 1970s. he shouldn't have been in that position to begin with, but there was no one else, and there still isn't. Agreed but that is the fault of the left, and not Sanders or even the Democrats. And that fault is entirely because the labor left prior to the 70s was a bunch of chuds who will not support anything that doesn't roll back civil rights and the sexual revolution. Only time and demographics will change that.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:35
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lol imagine actually casting a vote for joe biden
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Mar 14, 2021 21:36
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World War Mammories posted:ah, yes, demographics are destiny. that will definitely work this time. if you're gonna keep dropping stinkers like this, stop posting I can't wait until I become an old man and get to read posts about how much better the world will be when those regressive millenials finally start kicking the bucket.
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Mar 14, 2021 21:37
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