|
You outlawed wigs  terrorist ambulance posted:Could be worse, could be better. Its more similar to the UK/Australia by virtue of being a commonwealth country with fairly similar legal traditions if nothing else I read your pre edited post and it was very informative, thank you for taking the time.
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 11:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:22 |
|
|
algebra testes posted:I have always wondered, is Canadian Criminal law batshit insane like the US or is it more like English/Australian Crim Law? I mean how bad could it possibly be anyway? Misdemeanor lack of apology? Grand Theft Igloo? Reckless beaver misconduct? Let's be real here the options are limited.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 11:44
|
|
|
I did enjoy all the goons in far flung places. A couple of threads ago the running joke was Moose Law? Something about if you kill a moose you can take the road kill and eat it in Alaska or wherever. And Island Law? There was a goon on Guam or something?
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 13:40
|
|
|
Nice piece of fish posted:I mean how bad could it possibly be anyway? Misdemeanor lack of apology? Grand Theft Igloo? Reckless beaver misconduct? Let's be real here the options are limited. Mods please rename me reckless beaver misconduct
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 13:41
|
|
|
Toona the Cat posted:Mods please rename me reckless beaver misconduct lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 16:50
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:I did enjoy all the goons in far flung places. A couple of threads ago the running joke was Moose Law? Something about if you kill a moose you can take the road kill and eat it in Alaska or wherever. What's weird about moose law? What do you think happens to all the moose people hit on the highways? They end up in BigHead's garage gettin' chopped up at 2am is what. Even if a semi obliterates half the moose, you still get half of a giant rear end moose! Dead animal warning: 
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 17:48
|
|
|
BigHead posted:What's weird about moose law? What do you think happens to all the moose people hit on the highways? They end up in BigHead's garage gettin' chopped up at 2am is what. Even if a semi obliterates half the moose, you still get half of a giant rear end moose! How deer you post a poor murdered animal in this thread? Do you find it amoosing? I would never post an image of a dead animal.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 19:07
|
|
|
I remember going to Epcot and Canada'a station was just moose jokes and a video of Canadian actors telling Americans to take Canada seriously
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Møøse law kan be pretti nasti
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:And Island Law? There was a goon on Guam or something? In Puerto Rico there's a civil law system inherited from Spain, blended with some common law. Island law is all in spanish, which everyone speaks, but federal law and court is all conducted in english. So you'll have situations where the lawyers, witnesses, judge, etc are all native spanish speakers, but a court interpreter still has to interpret testimony into english, and everyone has to pretend they didn't understand the original speaker and only respond indirectly via the interpreter
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:I did enjoy all the goons in far flung places. A couple of threads ago the running joke was Moose Law? Something about if you kill a moose you can take the road kill and eat it in Alaska or wherever. Yep still on Guam. We've had a few goon and goon-adjacent lawyers come through as well. They're constantly hiring prosecutors and civil attorneys at the local government level. Covid is pretty much gone from here, I've gotten both my shots. I've banked an ungodly amount of leave, can't wait until the world opens up again and go on vacation.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2021 05:23
|
|
|
i'm studying for the lsat, i'm gonna go to law school. i am on a quest to not spend any money in this process as i have been told it is a bad idea (both to do it and to spend money on it). -i have spent only $85 out of my own pocket so far, to cover the cost of study materials (mike kim's book which i read maybe a third of and then a service which i'm receiving a steep discount on because of the next thing) -i applied for and was denied lsac's fee waivers but appealed it and was approved, so two tests and my first six packaged applications are being paid for. -my practice tests are in the 165-170 range; i'm signed up for june's lsat and i'm hoping i can test closer to the 175+ range. i'm 30 years old, i hosed up my undergrad experience by being sad and having undiagnosed adhd so i graduated with a 2.45 ugpa about 8 years ago (my school didn't do grade inflation, but it's not MIT so whoopsie); it's not impossible for me to end up at a t14 school just incredibly unlikely but my goal is to get into a t1 on a full ride (i have family in dc so george mason seems promising) or failing that managing to land somewhere with decent clerk placement (wustl, vandy, florida, fordham, etc.) and failing that going somewhere decent to live with as much scholarship money as someone will give me. not strictly looking for advice or anything (you won't change my mind and i will freely admit you have told me so), i just know that not a lot of 0Ls post in here, on this, the lawyer thread in the dead comedy forums, and nobody i know personally actually cares that much about all this worthless yet specific knowledge i have filled my head with.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 04:45
|
|
|
Why do you want to be a lawyer?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 04:49
|
|
|
If there’s another way in this world you find acceptable to make money, please go do that. In the alternative, keep us updated, consider a therapist, get Glannon on civpro, and network.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 04:52
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:(you won't change my mind and i will freely admit you have told me so) 's fine. Reread the OP, particularly the part quoting Toona the Cat. Then reread Toona's post below. ...after that, please post every detail of your law school experience so we can point, laugh, and finally copy your posts into the OP for the next version of this thread.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:07
|
|
|
Is there a person in this thread, apart from that guy in socialist Norway, who actually feels better? I love being a lawyer and practising law, but it still leaves me pretty miserable over all and has had a tangible impact on my mental health.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:14
|
|
|
So, it's a terrible plan. That said, you can get into schools in the 20-40 (50)-ish ranks with a bad GPA and a great LSAT score. That's what I did ten years ago. (3.0-ish GPA, 172 or 174 or something, I forget the details, ended up at a school ranked in the mid 30's or low 40's, again, I don't remember what it was ranked at the time.) HOWEVER. When looking at a school, you really should be thinking through the employability of degrees from whatever school you go to. Employability is a function of 1) do you know anyone who can get you a lawyer job? Is your dad or mom or cousin or whatever a lawyer? Do you have prior employment or community service or whatever connections that can get you in? and 2) Can your school get you a job, either by putting you in touch with people who can get you a job, or by having credentials in the community that can get you a job. For this one, it's WAY better to be the best school in a metropolitan region/state than it is to be the third-best school putting people in that region. So in my case, I went to the best school in the state even though it was a lower-ranked school than one I could have gone to in the DC area (George Washington, I think?). And I'm very glad I did so, because my friend who went to George Washington was underemployed for three years and moved back to our state with a ton more debt than those of us that went to the state school. You say you've got family in DC, which means you're going to be drawn to schools in that area to stay close to support networks. That's cool and all, and good for you, but it also means you're going to be trying to get a job in the absolute worst legal job market in the country. The best jobs are going to get sniped by the top grads, not only from the higher-ranked schools in the metropolitan region (Georgetown, UVA), but also from the whole country (Stanford, Yale, Harvard grads love working at AMLAW 50 firms, for government agencies, the US Attorney's Office, and stealing clerkships). So going to George Mason or whichever means you're looking at being a small fish in a very big pond. That means you'll have to hustle to find a job. You're older, so you're used to actually getting a job and working, which is good, but just know going in that it's going to be tough.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:15
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:Is there a person in this thread, apart from that guy in socialist Norway, who actually feels better? It's the least-bad job that someone will pay me to do? (Seriously, there are a lot of things I love about this job. It's just that all the parts that make it a profitable business suck rear end.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:16
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:i'm studying for the lsat, i'm gonna go to law school. i am on a quest to not spend any money in this process as i have been told it is a bad idea (both to do it and to spend money on it). I think you missed the big bubble on full rides anywhere, unless you have a characteristic or five that will make you attractive to schools. I went back to law school even older (just graduated in December) with a full ride to a low-ranked school. Because of that full ride, I don't have any regrets about it -- I really enjoyed law school a great deal, and not in the Toona way -- but after a year as a law clerk in litigation work, I realized I absolutely do not have what it takes to do that specific job. The expectation was that I would write, more or less continuously, for 8-12 hours per day, 5-7 days a week. I am a good writer and could not do it and had to quit. Not only that, the things the other side and the other side's counsel would do were frankly appalling. It's a profession that attracts a lot of lovely, miserable, and extremely broken people. Nobody is going to talk you out of it, as you said. I am not even trying to talk you out of it. I am, however, urging you to talk to as many practicing lawyers as you can, like loving yesterday, because it sounds like you do not know what you are getting into. And you can't just look at what an attorney is doing now and think "well that sounds pretty good, I could do that" because it leaves aside what you will have to do to get there, what jobs you are likely to get right out of school, and your odds of success generally speaking. My path forward to six or low seven figures was through the door marked "do this for just a few years" and could not see myself surviving it. YMMV. A full ride or close to it is the only way to go, because it's the only way you can walk away from the smoldering crater still smiling, if you have to.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:21
|
|
|
ulmont posted:'s fine. Reread the OP, particularly the part quoting Toona the Cat. Then reread Toona's post below. i read the op and through the toona saga because i'm a messy bitch who lives for drama. you can laugh and i'll probably regret my decisions, but hopefully i swung it to where i'm debt free Look Sir Droids posted:Why do you want to be a lawyer? i work in food service currently (with a 2.45 gpa that's probably not much of a surprise ho ho ho) and me and the people around me are constantly exploited with repeated labor, wage, and safety violations, and covid put a really big exclamation point on everything. my dream job would be in-house for a union or working for the aclu or afl-cio, but i know i probably won't get to do that stuff without some extremely lucky breaks. i just want to try and do something that's not just breaking my back in a kitchen for 10 hours a day, and even eating poo poo sandwiches as a pd seems like a better use of my time and energy than churning out cakes in the middle of a pandemic. Arcturas posted:You say you've got family in DC, which means you're going to be drawn to schools in that area to stay close to support networks. That's cool and all, and good for you, but it also means you're going to be trying to get a job in the absolute worst legal job market in the country. The best jobs are going to get sniped by the top grads, not only from the higher-ranked schools in the metropolitan region (Georgetown, UVA), but also from the whole country (Stanford, Yale, Harvard grads love working at AMLAW 50 firms, for government agencies, the US Attorney's Office, and stealing clerkships). So going to George Mason or whichever means you're looking at being a small fish in a very big pond. That means you'll have to hustle to find a job. You're older, so you're used to actually getting a job and working, which is good, but just know going in that it's going to be tough. that's good to know. i don't actually care about working in the dc area; i've actually lived all over virginia for all of my life so i'd be fine working in the attorney's office in richmond or wherever. being in the dmv doesn't matter to me long-term, but i wouldn't have to pay for housing, which is the actual important part to me. please feel free to continue dunking on me for my poor decisions, you can't hurt me e: i should specify that i'm a URM so ~*~i'm not like other candidates~*~; i don't know if that boosts my money chances but it'll help me punch above my weight i think, especially since usnwr is factoring diversity into the rankings
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:26
|
|
|
Arcturas posted:It's the least-bad job that someone will pay me to do? This is how I feel most of the time. But I also have a sweet government job where I've taken a pay cut to never care about "profitability" or hours ever. Some days I want to never see anyone associated with my job ever again. To the fresh fish, sounds like you need to be shooting for legal aid to start with. Do not bother with George Mason rear end law. Get a full ride at the best state school you can manage.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:32
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs-UEqJ85KE This is the main summary of the thread's advice, I'd advise you to click this link. .1 hours research, .1 hours client networking.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:57
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:This is how I feel most of the time. But I also have a sweet government job where I've taken a pay cut to never care about "profitability" or hours ever. Even if DC market is appealing, George Mason is reputationally incredibly conservative and that can and will affect how people look at you (at least in DC). I’m pretty happy but I also don’t actually practice much law anymore (and when I do I’m writing amicus briefs and comments which are not exactly stressful.)
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 05:59
|
|
|
honestly the thought of having to walk past a statue of antonin loving scalia really weighs on my soul so i’ll take any excuse not to go to george mason. the financials of it seemed appealing to me
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 06:14
|
|
|
Any union or employee rights firm worth working for is not interviewing someone from rear end Law. From talking with and observing recent "successes," if you want to help employees being hosed by their jobs legal aid in any city is the job you want. Build experience and transition. Don't pay to live in DC to go to rear end law of all places. You'll be 80k in the hole pre-interest from living expenses. I had a full ride at a public midwest law school and was basically 50k behind after interest and bar prep before I got my first lawyer pay check.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 06:26
|
|
|
iirc you're from PR; do you have any connections/options there?
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 06:29
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:iirc you're from PR; do you have any connections/options there? I have family, but I don’t speak the language well enough to practice there I don’t think, definitely not enough for a classroom environment
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 07:06
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:Is there a person in this thread, apart from that guy in socialist Norway, who actually feels better? Oh I went and had a kid, I'm miserable now, thanks for asking. I'm getting peed on daily and my sleep schedule isn't. All while holding down a job that requires me to concentrate.  Don't be a lawyer.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 07:12
|
|
|
Looks like meat is back on the menu boys! Anyways it sounds like you want to do legal aid work, which I commend you for as another public interest attorney. URM will make it easier to get that scholarship cash but definitely have an eye for where you want to land when picking law schools. I will note even with a full ride I have sizable loans due to living expenses during school. If you want to do legal aid work with them as much as possible and don't be a poo poo so they like you when they open a spot up. Depending on where you want to be legal aid applications either get buried in responses or nothing (because we don't pay enough to cover CoL and loans lol). Also seconding the therapist advice. This profession is awful. basically don't be a lawyer, but if you are going to then at least entertain us
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 08:52
|
|
|
Don't be a lawyer. Importantly, this advice is universally true for all jurisdictions.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 13:35
|
|
|
Hey on the upside you can start school with the intent of being a public defender, then through a series of whacky and misfortunate events, end up a bank officer signing off on helping rich people get richer by moving money around the world and helping them navigate loopholes. Pays well, good hours, and eventually you make peace with giving up morals for a nice leather chair.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
Eminent Domain posted:Looks like meat is back on the menu boys!
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:06
|
|
|
For real, if you're out of school and you're kind of loving around with the idea, I want you to spend three or four months interning somewhere even if it's unpaid so that you could see what the profession is actually like.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:08
|
|
|
Eminent Domain posted:
Yeah, this. The upside of doing legal aid work or public defense is that your co-workers are likely to be wonderful people because they're all helpful public-spirited do-gooders like yourself. The downside is it's generally massively underpaid and highly stressful (because you care about your clients), and the entire system is stacked against you so you end up losing a lot. Now is a historically bad time to do civil rights law, for example (to the point that I stopped doing it because the former deputy assistant attorney general for Obama's civil righs division gave a speech at a conference I was attending about why we should all stop filing civil rights cases for the foreseeable future due to how badly the courts have been stacked now). . I've been doing one or the other for about fifteen years now and overall .. yeah, it's the best job someone's willing to pay me to do, but if I had it all to do over again, I'd have worked harder in college psychiatry and tried to go that route instead. Generally when young folks ask me if they should go to law school I ask them "are your parents judges or partners in a law firm?" If so, going to law school is a good idea, because then they'll be able to float to the top. If not. . .it's a gamble. The other big thing to realize is that almost nobody ends up doing what they went into law school to do. It's a matter of luck of the draw when you're applying for jobs and jobs are scarce enough that most people end up just taking what they can get, whatever that is. Toona the Cat posted:Hey on the upside you can start school with the intent of being a public defender, then through a series of whacky and misfortunate events, end up a Exactly. My intention in law school was to end up doing real estate closings from a leather chair. Instead somehow I did civil rights law for a decade and now I defend DUI's and CDV's as a public defender. Nothing ever goes according to plan, but I've sunk all this human capital into that law license so I'm stuck using it! Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Mar 15, 2021 |
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:24
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Just to be clear to the new guy, this is actually a pretty good outcome.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
I haven't been an attorney for six years now. My partner's mom died in a car crash last week. When my partner was telling me about the accident my brain reflexively issue spotted the story to identify who the family could sue. It took a conscious act of will power but I was able to stop thinking like a lawyer and instead be the empathetic listener my partner actually needed. Go to law school kids.
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:44
|
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:Just to be clear to the new guy, this is actually a pretty good outcome. Is it? I wanted an office with many fine, leather bound volumes and a desk of rich mahogany I've also secretly enjoyed quarantining because court closure meant I dropped from a 100-hour workweek to a 40-hour one Otoh I am, like, genuinely helping people and I'm in a D&D group with my coworkers so that's pretty great when nobody has a trial that week and we can play
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 14:58
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Oof, D&D groups are for anyone but coworkers
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:i work in food service currently (with a 2.45 gpa that's probably not much of a surprise ho ho ho) and me and the people around me are constantly exploited with repeated labor, wage, and safety violations, and covid put a really big exclamation point on everything. my dream job would be in-house for a union or working for the aclu or afl-cio, but i know i probably won't get to do that stuff without some extremely lucky breaks. i just want to try and do something that's not just breaking my back in a kitchen for 10 hours a day, and even eating poo poo sandwiches as a pd seems like a better use of my time and energy than churning out cakes in the middle of a pandemic. what about defending those repeated labor, wage, and safety violations because that's the job you got offered  keep in mind that a lot of the time with a lawyer career, especially when you're starting out, the side you're on is mostly the first side to offer to pay you to be on it, not the one you want to be on, and if you're not going to a top-notch school that's usually going to be "always" not "mostly" because you will need to take the job you can get
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 15:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 22:22 |
|
|
Pook Good Mook posted:Just to be clear to the new guy, this is actually a pretty good outcome. it doesn’t sound bad on an intellectual level i understand that the sausage making process of the legal profession will likely make me change direction a few times if for no other reason than i’d like to feed myself and there are no other jobs available; that’s much different than actually going through it but i’ll post my unvarnished freakout whenever it should happen, for your amusement and as tribute for the advice
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2021 15:04
|
|