Potato Salad posted:

Did I miss a disclosure from last week that reveals that a law enforcement / intelligence agency has a specific program looking at domestic progressive organizers?

Josef bugman posted:

Allow people in anyway, having closed the camps? If you believe that a 5 year old has walked from Venezuela to the Texas border on their own with no plan other than a dream of "America". Then either; a) they are the protagonist of a best selling young adult novel, b) they have contacts they were told to meet up with or c) they walked all the way at age 5.

If the first is true there is no need to worry and we will surely have several sequels and if the second, far more likely, thing is true then locking them up so that ICE can find their caregiver and deport them is no good either. And, outside of extreme edge cases I don't think c is going to happen.

Like, in general we shouldn't imprison people for moving to a new country.

1337JiveTurkey posted:

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Josef bugman posted:

Are people really sending unaccompanied 5 year old to travel even with people smugglers? Without any expectation for support within the USA?

I've seen some of the stats but I still don't really believe it. Surely doing so would be a death sentence?

Vasukhani posted:

basically some restaurants and cafes and retail need humans to act as atmosphere. People dont actually go places for the product most of the time

DandyLion posted:

If you had the votes, yes.

I can't help but feel like I'm about to suffer irony poisoning when the Dem's don't pass the filibuster only to see it summarily nuked once the Republican's regain control with less than 60 seats....

Josef bugman posted:

Are people really sending unaccompanied 5 year old to travel even with people smugglers? Without any expectation for support within the USA?

I've seen some of the stats but I still don't really believe it. Surely doing so would be a death sentence?

Thom12255 posted:

Not sure I've seen someone openly run on the idea of getting rid of jobs.

https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1371807271404105730

the_steve posted:

This is actually what I was going to suggest.
It's arguably more accurate from a historical standpoint, and helps avoid any Holocaust comparisons while still highlighting that they are lovely and bad and need to have something done about them.

quote:

Roger Daniels, a historian and author, wrote an analysis for the University of Washington Press called "Words Do Matter: A Note on Inappropriate Terminology and the Incarceration of the Japanese Americans." He concludes that, although it's unlikely society will completely cease to use the phrase "Japanese internment," scholars should abandon the term and use "concentration camp." He considers internment a euphemism that minimizes a tragic time in American history.

Verisimilidude posted:

more money for us,

gently caress you!

Morrow posted:

I'm hopeful that his current lead is just name recognition.

OTOH, New York has been cursed to never have a normal mayor.

Feldegast42 posted:

When did they stop since the 60's?

Thom12255 posted:

Not sure I've seen someone openly run on the idea of getting rid of jobs.

https://twitter.com/MaraGay/status/1371807271404105730

Kalit posted:

These aren't asylum seekers, it's unaccompanied minors that are coming across the border. Asylum seekers is a separate process and I believe are typically not unaccompanied minors.

Solkanar512 posted:

This is a really weird thing to say. It’s much more likely that folks like having a human around because automated systems are almost never set up to deal with unusual or uncommon issues.

Thom12255 posted:

https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1371838854416711683

SourKraut posted:

This would probably take a fairly long effort post, but the quick of it is that lead has no known safe exposure limit and bioaccumulates when ingested and, particularly, it bioaccumulate in the brain. This can cause all types of significant cognitive impacts, especially in infants and children whose brains see the greatest period of brain development. This can range from stunting mental development, to problems such as anger management, paranoia, etc.

People often are (rightfully) concerned about lead piping, but lead was used as an additive in paint up until the late 1970s and even later in some cases, because it made the colors more vibrant. But when you have young children who love to touch everything, put things in their mouth, etc, it can make for very bad exposures. It also could end up as dust in the house, so then they are both inhaling and ingesting it.

They also put lead in gas starting in the 1920s to stop engine knocking, but this was especially bad because a) they already were starting to learn about the problems related to lead exposure in adults when working with leaded gas, and b) ethanol was known to have the same result in avoiding engine knocking, without the harmful exposure concerns. However GM, who “discovered” leaded gas, couldn’t patent ethanol... but they could patent the lead additive that went into leaded gas, so they ignored the safety concerns and pushed its use heavily. Ultimately it would become the dominant form of gas used for ~ 70 years

If cars had remained somewhat niche, this might not have become as big of a deal. But since the automobile did become a widespread and required means of transportation, it meant that you started seeing exhaust impacts and, in particular, lead contamination. Lead would obviously survive the combustion process and then be expelled with the other waste gases. But since lead is a heavy metal, it settles out fairly quickly into the environment.

So now you have rapid suburbanization immediately adjacent to freeways, all with cars exhausting out leaded exhaust gasses. So you have everyone living and working in these areas getting to breathe in lead outside their homes as they work/play/etc, you get kids playing in soil that sees increasing concentrations of lead thanks to the car exhaust, then they go inside where they breathe in lead dust and the kids can touch and ingest lead further.

Oh, and all of the “peak” for these issues were basically the mid-1940 up through the mid-1970s, so the entire boomer generation and early Generation X.

By the 1970s, the dangers of lead were becoming more pronounced, so they finally started phasing lead out of paints, toys, etc, but it would stay in gas for another 20 years or so, but in diminishing amounts as ethanol started to finally be used.

I’ll get you some articles to provide more in-depth analysis and to confirm the above, but this is the gist of it.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The secret is to be the one person in the office who knows how to automate reporting and Microsoft Excel, so when you get an assignment they give you a timeline they think it would take them. Then, you just shitpost and do your taxes for 4 hours and work for 3 hours.

I showed a major lobbying firm how to automate dozens of processes and the response was either:

1) "Awesome! Now, we can give you more work."

or

2) "I've been doing it manually for 20 years and now I look like a moron and people expect me to be done faster, but I refuse to learn how to use a computer. Why did you do this to me?"

That's why you just do it on your own and never tell anyone.

Lumpy posted:

Imagine living in a system where when you automate 50% of the work, you don't fire half the employees, you just have everyone work half as much for the same pay.

the_steve posted:

This is actually what I was going to suggest.
It's arguably more accurate from a historical standpoint, and helps avoid any Holocaust comparisons while still highlighting that they are lovely and bad and need to have something done about them.

Condiv posted:

Digging up a euphimism that the US has used in the past to excuse abuses of its own citizens to describe the camps immigrants are being held in seems really gauche and seems to be more based in avoiding truly dealing with what the US is doing to immigrants. Especially when a word that is almost certainly applicable is banned without debate because the comparison it creates makes people uncomfortable.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

The secret is to be the one person in the office who knows how to automate reporting and Microsoft Excel, so when you get an assignment they give you a timeline they think it would take them. Then, you just shitpost and do your taxes for 4 hours and work for 3 hours.

I showed a major lobbying firm how to automate dozens of processes and the response was either:

1) "Awesome! Now, we can give you more work."

or

2) "I've been doing it manually for 20 years and now I look like a moron and people expect me to be done faster, but I refuse to learn how to use a computer. Why did you do this to me?"

That's why you just do it on your own and never tell anyone.

Thom12255 posted:

https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1371838854416711683

VH4Ever posted:

Fritz the Horse posted:

Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:

threats to automate order-taking are nothing more than a class based threat to beat workers into compliance. if it were easy to make a touchscreen comprehensible to all customers, it would have been done already. POS systems which are fast are also tricky to use

OneEightHundred posted:

Sheetz has been using touchscreen kiosk ordering since the mid-90's and it works fine. Some sit-down restaurants (I think Red Robin is one of them?) have already started rolling out tabletop devices to replace wait staff, and McDonalds is already rolling out ordering kiosks. It technologically dovetails with online ordering, which a ton of places have now adopted because of COVID. Kiosk/mobile+table service is cheaper for the restaurants and customers like it more than counter order/pickup anyway.

Josef bugman posted:

Surely you therefore count any child like that as a refugee not a migrant, and have something set up so that you aren't throwing them into awful conditions.


But I was told that things used to work differently? How unaccompanied individuals would be asked to return at set dates and things like that. Not no system but a none carcereal system? Why can't that be set up again?

Thom12255 posted:

https://twitter.com/brianbeutler/status/1371838854416711683

Insanite posted:

At what point is Biden responsible for the state of things, rather than just cleaning up various messes that happened under Trump? What is the timeline for it being okay to be mad at him for any of this?

Josef bugman posted:

Surely you therefore count any child like that as a refugee not a migrant, and have something set up so that you aren't throwing them into awful conditions.


But I was told that things used to work differently? How unaccompanied individuals would be asked to return at set dates and things like that. Not no system but a none carcereal system? Why can't that be set up again?

VH4Ever posted:

You know, people have pointed out I don't know how many times that right now, under Biden, KIDS ARE BEING TREATED AS REFUGEES. AND BEING PROCESSED/CARED FOR BY THE DEPT THAT DEALS WITH REFUGEES. Like, box checked. We keep going in these goddamn circles because acknowledging Biden is, in fact, not Trump and not running things like Trump, is something some folks ITT seem immune to.

Handsome Ralph posted:

IK Hat on

I get that the migrant situation is complex and that people's emotions are going to flare up while talking about it and how to handle it. People are going to disagree and that's fine so long as no one is openly lusting for migrant death. Having said that, two things...

-If you're not going to bother engaging with the point being made by someone else without being a total dickhead about it, you're flirting with the possibility of getting hit for it.

-If you make false equivalencies to the loving Holocaust, I will absolutely push all of the buttons in front of me. Don't fuckling do it.

I'm this close to to reenacting this gif, don't give me a reason.

DaveWoo posted:

https://twitter.com/CraigCaplan/status/1371840899110559746

Yes, just imagine what it would be like if the Senate was gridlocked and unable to get anything done.

VH4Ever posted:

You know, people have pointed out I don't know how many times that right now, under Biden, KIDS ARE BEING TREATED AS REFUGEES. AND BEING PROCESSED/CARED FOR BY THE DEPT THAT DEALS WITH REFUGEES. Like, box checked. We keep going in these goddamn circles because acknowledging Biden is, in fact, not Trump and not running things like Trump, is something some folks ITT seem immune to.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

He's responsible right now. Cleaning up things is part of his responsibility.

Obama inherited the worst economic disaster since the great depression and got hammered for it as if he caused it. Whether it is fair or not.

Trump inherited an economy that had grown uninterrupted in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018 and he got credit for it.

It can be both their responsibility to clean something up and also not their fault that is happening.

quote:

Manchin Will Likely Support Gupta’s Nomination After Garland Vouched For Her

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) said Monday that he is “leaning towards” supporting Vanita Gupta’s nomination for associate attorney general after Attorney General Merrick Garland vouched for her.

“I have spoken to Merrick Garland — and he is very high on her,” he said, according to the Hill pool. “And I have all the respect in the world on his decision making. I will be leaning towards because of his support.”

Locking in Manchin is crucial to Gupta’s confirmation, as Republicans have coalesced against her.

Her hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee last week was contentious, as Republicans brought up her old tweets criticizing members of their party and tried to paint her as a radical ideologue who supports “defunding the police.”

“The positions you have advocated for are on the extreme left and you have demonstrated an intolerance for and hostility to anyone that disagrees with the extreme left political positions,” Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) said at the hearing.

Josef bugman posted:

From a personal point of view its because of seeing things like lawyers not being allowed to go and see kids and so on.

But I am probably being unfair. Sorry.

Kavros posted:

One of the ugly parts of the current crisis is that there's an incredible, rapid influx of refugees (including child refugees) into the united states, happening in a timeframe where the new administration simply has not had any time to substantially change the structure of the immigrant detention system that became very concentration-camp-y, under trump especially but not exclusively. It's the perfect definition of an inherited crisis. The infrastructure isn't even really there for humane detention even for processing, AND biden's administration isn't alleviating the issue by processing them as automatic deportations.

ICE is, of course, assisting the misery portion of this by being brazenly insubordinate on several levels, because it is a white ethnonationalist org that self-selected leadership and departmental culture for white ethnonationalists who salivate at the chance to do a white ethnonationalism.

Insanite posted:

I completely agree with this, but I guess I'd like to see an answer from people for whom "he needs time" is a compelling response to things like the conditions at the border.

How much time is enough?

Saxophone posted:

Mcconnell sounds a bit desperate and terrified, honestly. There must be mounting traction for eliminating the filibuster. Besides, doing the things he's talking about would require another Republican trifecta and, frankly, if we get there again, the country is probably way more screwed anyway.

The entire Republican platform is obstruction. Their only legislation is destruction of systems already in place and tax cuts which are unpopular. So threatening to gum up the works is just status quo and not much of a threat, honestly.

Insanite posted:

How much time is enough?