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spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






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Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1362116353772187652
uhhhhhhhh

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

https://twitter.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1362135453902639104

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade
gone already

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

https://twitter.com/MetroElectWorld/status/1362062611760766976

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008


turning taht big ol racism dial

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
spain jailing a commie rapper same day as mask off fascists march in the streets
no bueno

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






I like how when Macron was elected he was seen as the savior of France, keeping Le Pen and the fascist islamophobes at bay.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1362845431210860548

The following quote is not from the article linked above, but an excerpt from an essay by Pankaj Mishra that I felt was relevant:

quote:

‘For the first time in centuries,’ he writes, ‘Europeans are living in a world they did not, for the most part, shape.’ More alarmingly, the responsibility for shaping the world is now passing from the US itself; and fear and anxiety (‘white man, what now?’), though never explicitly acknowledged, darken every page of Caldwell’s book as it tries, like other jeremiads about ‘America alone’, to boost morale by conjuring up worthy new racial and civilisational enemies.

A more thoughtful conservative than Caldwell could have examined valuably how neo-liberal capitalism, while enriching Europe’s transnational elites, has frayed the continent’s old cultures and solidarities. In Europe, as in India and China, globalisation has provoked great anxieties about inequality and unemployment, fuelling new xenophobic nationalisms and backlashes against ethnic and religious minorities. The social anthropologist Arjun Appadurai claims in Fear of Small Numbers: An Essay on the Geography of Anger that ‘minorities are the major site for displacing the anxieties of many states about their own minority or marginality (real or imagined) in a world of a few megastates, of unruly economic flows and compromised sovereignties.’

This at least partly explains why a few hundred women in headscarves incited such fierce passions in a nation state whose geopolitical and cultural insignificance in recent years has only been partly obscured by its hyperactive president, Nicolas Sarkozy. In The Politics of the Veil, the distinguished scholar of gender studies Joan Wallach Scott explains how the banning of a small piece of cloth that covers the head and neck affirmed an ‘imagined France’, one that was ‘secular, individualist and culturally homogeneous’ and ‘whose reality was secured by excluding dangerous others from the nation’. Scott demonstrates that French Muslim girls, who were directly affected by the law on the foulard, were ‘strikingly absent from the debates’ in France, which were dominated by intellectuals and politicians frantically defining the dangerous ‘other’ (typically by describing the veil as, in Jacques Attali’s words, a ‘successor to the Berlin wall’).

The veil has now been turned into, Scott writes, a highly charged ‘sign of the irreducible difference between Islam and France’. Elsewhere, too, politicians and journalists – self-proclaimed ‘liberals’ as well as unabashed rightwingers – rhetorically ask whether ‘Islam’, which allegedly enforces a harsh divine law on all Muslims, is compatible with ‘European’ values of reason and tolerance, which are supposedly derived from the Enlightenment (or Christianity, as Sarkozy blurted out in 2007, in a revealing breach of republican protocol).

In actuality, the everyday choices of most Muslims in Europe are dictated more by their experience of globalised economies and cultures than by their readings in the Qur’an or sharia. Along with their Hindu and Sikh peers, many Muslims in Europe suffer from the usual pathologies of traditional rural communities transitioning to urban secular cultures: the encounter with social and economic individualism inevitably provokes a crisis of control in nuclear families, as well as such ills as forced marriage, the poor treatment of women and militant sectarianism. However, in practice, millions of Muslims, many of them with bitter experiences of authoritarian states, coexist frictionlessly and gratefully with regimes committed to democracy, freedom of religion and equality before the law.

For many of these Muslim aspirants for full and equal citizenship, the urgent questions are whether the old-style liberalism of many European nation states, which has traditionally assumed cultural homogeneity, can accommodate minority identity, and whether majority communities in Europe can tolerate expressions of cultural and religious distinctiveness. A part of the secular intellectual priesthood, which cannot survive without its theological opposition between the Enlightenment and Islam, thinks not. In 2004, France’s ban on the wearing of headscarves in public schools bluntly clarified that Muslims will have to renounce all signs of their religion in order to become fully French.

This expectation of identity suicide has a rather grim history in enlightened Europe. Voltaire burnished his credentials as a defender of reason and civility with attacks on ‘ignorant’ and ‘barbarous’ Jews who, as slaves to their scripture, were, ‘all of them, born with raging fanaticism in their hearts’. (The Nazis put together a sizeable anthology of Voltaire’s rants against Jews.) Accused of mistreating their women and proliferating with devious rapidity, and goaded to abandon their religious and cultural baggage, many Jews in the nineteenth century paid an even higher cost of ‘integration’ than that confronting Muslims today in France.

As it turned out, those Jews who suppressed the Torah and Talmud and underwent drastic embourgeoisement became even more vulnerable to malign prejudice in post-Enlightenment Europe’s secular nation states. The persecution of Alfred Dreyfus in France convinced Theodore Herzl, the creator of modern Zionism, that ‘the Jew who tries to adapt himself to his environment, to speak its languages, to think its thoughts’ would remain a potentially treacherous ‘alien’ in the secular West. Reporting in the 1920s on Jewish communities exposed to a particularly vicious recrudescence of anti-Semitism, the novelist Joseph Roth denounced assimilation as a dangerous illusion, blaming its failure on the ‘habitual bias that governs the actions, decisions, and opinions of the average western European’.

Roth, who trusted Europe’s old ‘fear of God’ more than its ‘so-called modern humanism’, bluntly questioned the ‘civilising missions’ of European empires in Asia and Africa in a preface he wrote to his book in 1937: ‘What is it’, he asked, ‘that allows European states to go spreading civilisation and ethics in foreign parts but not at home?’ Joan Wallach Scott’s account of France’s colonial history reveals that violent prejudice against religious and racial ‘others’ was also an intrinsic part of spreading European civilisation and ethics abroad. The veil, fixed in the nineteenth century by the French as a symbol of Islam’s primitive backwardness, was used to justify the brutal pacification of North African Muslims and to exclude them from full citizenship. Geoffrey Brahm Levey and Tariq Modood, the editors of Secularism, Religion and Multicultural Citizenship, write: ‘How Muslims are perceived today is connected to how they have been perceived and treated by European empires and their racial hierarchies.’

Meanwhile, as colonialist stereotypes again proliferate, second- and third-generation Muslim women creatively use their head coverings in their own passage to modernity. In Another Cosmopolitanism, the political philosopher Seyla Benhabib describes the bold actions of three French girls who in 1989 consciously risked expulsion by wearing headscarves to school:

They used the symbol of the home to gain entry into the public sphere by retaining the modesty required of Islam in covering their heads; yet at the same time, they left the home to become public actors in a civil public space in which they defied the state.

Liberal spaces within Europe have brought many more Muslim women out of their old confinements. Benhabib asserts that these women, who ‘struggle at first to retain their traditional and given identities against the pressures of the state’, then go on to engage and contest their Islamic traditions. As Europe’s own passage from tradition showed, this necessary reconfiguration is not the work of a day. It requires the practices and institutions of European citizenship to grow more rather than less flexible.

In historic terms, Muslims are a recent presence in Europe, especially when compared to the minorities in different parts of the continent – Jewish, Italian, Portuguese and black – who were once feared to be unassimilable. Their initial position as barely tolerated ‘temporary workers’ was never likely to create the conditions for quick integration. Muslims from a young, globalised and highly political generation are now poised to enter the public spheres open to them, or to embrace extremism, or, like many of their parents, to retreat into passive resentment. But these choices in turn depend on how quickly and readily their ‘hosts’ – ordinary Europeans as well as their governments – will make them feel at home. Strident invocations of the Enlightenment or some other historically and eternally fixed essence of Europe seem increasingly symptoms of intellectual lag and cultural defensiveness. Multi-ethnic Europe is an immutable fact, and needs, appropriately, a more inclusive, open-ended identity, one derived more from its pluralistic and relatively peaceful present, and supranational future, than from its brutishly nationalist and imperialist past. Writing in 1937 about the minority then most despised in Europe, Joseph Roth predicted that ‘Jews will only attain complete equality, and the dignity of external freedom, once their “host nations” have attained their own inner freedom, as well as the dignity conferred by sympathy for the plight of others’. This proved to be too much to ask of Europe in 1937. But the moral challenge has not gone away – civilisation remains an ideal rather than an irreversible achievement – and the dangers of leaving it unmet are incalculable.

ded redd
Aug 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
god i hate europe

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Office Pig posted:

god i hate europe

Honest Thief
Jan 11, 2009
feeling really dumb about when in erasmus drunkly proclaiming to be european at every house party

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

quote:

In historic terms, Muslims are a recent presence in Europe,

Ummmmm

Electronico6
Feb 25, 2011


Thankfully some Europeans are very aware of the long historical presence of Muslims in Europe!

https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/1361950213934616579?s=20


:v:

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Electronico6 posted:

Thankfully some Europeans are very aware of the long historical presence of Muslims in Europe!

https://twitter.com/alexandreafonso/status/1361950213934616579?s=20


:v:
Counterargument: Iberia is not part of Europe at all. That's why it fell to Muslims almost immediately, while the Umayyads were easily repulsed by European forces. Europe is in fact only the territory that was held by Charlemagne, which is plain to see even today - just look at the destitution of southern Italy, eastern Germany, and the Balkans, as well as the hostility towards European integration to the north. The so-called "European Union" is an unnatural and illegitimate entity, an empire expanding far beyond its natural borders.

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!
The real truth is that as in most cases when the article says "Europe" it means "Western Europe". So we don't have to worry about Tatars of any kind, Bosnia, Albania, European Turks, Muslim Greeks etc.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



its goths all the way down

Antifa Poltergeist
Jun 3, 2004

"We're not laughing with you, we're laughing at you"



Reminder that "hispanic" is a direct visigoth term, from "hispani".

Its breathtaking the amount of ignorance people have of history

Zombiepop
Mar 30, 2010

Grape posted:

The real truth is that as in most cases when the article says "Europe" it means "Western Europe". So we don't have to worry about Tatars of any kind, Bosnia, Albania, European Turks, Muslim Greeks etc.

Yeah this. Good article but Europe is not just France, everybody thinks the french sucks.
(just kidding)

There has always been people travelling and trading between the islamic world and europe, not like today ofc. But like the swedish King Karl XII was chilling in turkey with 1500 soldiers for 4 years. Soldiers fought for different armies and besides brothers in arms of different faiths.
Not that it really matters today when a whole lot of folks seems to think the world was discovered in modern times and before that everybody just kept to themselves and inside their nations borders all the time.

Zombiepop has issued a correction as of 00:37 on Feb 21, 2021

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

lmao. Free market innovation

https://twitter.com/fernandezamster/status/1364673332851965965

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Something something let's slaughter the goose that lays the golden eggs something something.


gently caress me I've just realized that fairytale is literally neoliberalism.txt isn't it?

Edit: lmao I've also just learned it's not a fairytale but one of Aesop's fables, so destroying a valuable resource out of shortsighted greed is literally a thousands of years old meme. And yet *points at our entire political establishment*.

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 17:14 on Feb 25, 2021

V. Illych L.
Apr 11, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

casse-toi, pauv'con

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Sarko l'Américain

mrfart
May 26, 2004

Dear diary, today I
became a captain.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005


qu'est-ce que c'est, une prison pour fourmis???

frankenfreak
Feb 16, 2007

I SCORED 85% ON A QUIZ ABOUT MONDAY NIGHT RAW AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS LOUSY TEXT

#bastionboogerbrigade

i say swears online posted:

qu'est-ce que c'est, une prison pour fourmis???
It's funny because he's short.

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018

Welp, voting in the Netherlands tomorrow and all polls are predicting a surge rightward and a shrinking of the left. I know, who trust polls in 2021 but I'm more then ready to believe in the shittiness of my countrymen. :(

We've had a rightwing Gov for 10 years, by all metrics they've done nothing but gently caress up and people are going to reward them with more power.

The Puppet Master
Apr 9, 2005

Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. I'd fuck me hard.



An insane mind posted:

Welp, voting in the Netherlands tomorrow and all polls are predicting a surge rightward and a shrinking of the left. I know, who trust polls in 2021 but I'm more then ready to believe in the shittiness of my countrymen. :(

We've had a rightwing Gov for 10 years, by all metrics they've done nothing but gently caress up and people are going to reward them with more power.

it is pretty lol. rutte will win again all by promising that he will do more racism and the he has done such a good job with cv19 lol

it is cool that there is a new and explicitly anti capitalist party that might win 1 seat

The Puppet Master has issued a correction as of 21:30 on Mar 16, 2021

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018

The Puppet Master posted:

it is pretty lol. rutte will win again all by promising that he will do more racism and the he has done such a good job with cv19 lol

it is cool that there is a new and explicitly anti capitalist party that might win 1 seat

Oh you mean Bij1? If so yeah, I'm going to make drat sure they get their seat.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Just loving lol if you dont vote Bij1, what are you even doing with your life?

The Puppet Master
Apr 9, 2005

Would you fuck me? I'd fuck me. I'd fuck me hard.



An insane mind posted:

Oh you mean Bij1? If so yeah, I'm going to make drat sure they get their seat.

yes absolutely. I cannot vote but I have been throwing them a few Euros each month

JordanKai
Aug 19, 2011

Get high and think of me.


The pragmatist in me wants to vote GroenLinks or SP simply in the hopes of slightly increasing the size of the largest left-ish parties in the second chamber. However, I've never been comfortable with GroenLinks' elitist air and I'm furious with SP for cutting ROOD loose and for clinging to the Marijnissen family.

I'm still not 100% sure, but I think I'll be voting for BIJ1 tomorrow. I think getting Sylvanna Simons into the second chamber and letting her go off for four years would do a lot of good for the national discourse. More so than one more GroenLinks or SP member, at least.

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018

JordanKai posted:

The pragmatist in me wants to vote GroenLinks or SP simply in the hopes of slightly increasing the size of the largest left-ish parties in the second chamber. However, I've never been comfortable with GroenLinks' elitist air and I'm furious with SP for cutting ROOD loose and for clinging to the Marijnissen family.

I'm still not 100% sure, but I think I'll be voting for BIJ1 tomorrow. I think getting Sylvanna Simons into the second chamber and letting her go off for four years would do a lot of good for the national discourse. More so than one more GroenLinks or SP member, at least.

:same: I just hope we can have a leftist block stopping the most heinous things Rutte and his friends in the far right want to do...

spankmeister
Jun 15, 2008






JordanKai posted:

The pragmatist in me wants to vote GroenLinks or SP simply in the hopes of slightly increasing the size of the largest left-ish parties in the second chamber. However, I've never been comfortable with GroenLinks' elitist air and I'm furious with SP for cutting ROOD loose and for clinging to the Marijnissen family.

I'm still not 100% sure, but I think I'll be voting for BIJ1 tomorrow. I think getting Sylvanna Simons into the second chamber and letting her go off for four years would do a lot of good for the national discourse. More so than one more GroenLinks or SP member, at least.

An insane mind posted:

:same: I just hope we can have a leftist block stopping the most heinous things Rutte and his friends in the far right want to do...

Both of you should just vote Bij1. The established left wing parties have demonstrated time and time again to be conservative (SP on immigration, EU, etc), or selling their soul in the name of "pragmatism" i.e supporting neolib bullshit (GL and PvdA both).

This country needs a real left wing voice and even if it's only one seat, being able to bring up votes and to steer the debates a little bit more to the left is absolutely crucial, imo.

oliwan
Jul 20, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
The fact that so many Dutch people who call themselves lefties are so hesitant to vote for Bij1 is a huge sign for me that the left will never get a foothold in the netherlands.

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018

Oh I'm voting Bij1, I was just saying that the pragmatic part of me wanted to just increase the size of other left parties. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

oliwan
Jul 20, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
Yeah that's all good, I wasn't even specifically responding to your post, but I see it as a more general issue that I also witness in my own social circle.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



spankmeister posted:

Both of you should just vote Bij1. The established left wing parties have demonstrated time and time again to be conservative (SP on immigration, EU, etc), or selling their soul in the name of "pragmatism" i.e supporting neolib bullshit (GL and PvdA both).

This country needs a real left wing voice and even if it's only one seat, being able to bring up votes and to steer the debates a little bit more to the left is absolutely crucial, imo.

:same: but denmark

An insane mind
Aug 11, 2018

The trouble I have, and I know that it's a very selfish viewpoint, is that I can't just be happy with my own leftist vote. I feel inexorably sad and angry about all the votes that are going to FvD and PVV, when I can't do anything about those votes beyond the people I talk to. It eats at me and it's not healthy.

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bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

leftists are trained from birth to sacrifice their souls under the color of "pragmatism," to move right rather than left, and to blame themselves for the centrists natural affinity for far right doctrine.

if pragmatism and service to technocrats and moderates has brought us to this, then of what use is pragmatism?

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