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I feel like of the two missing data points that collapse her argument (Redcloak's The Plan is a little bit more of an existential threat than she seems to believe, and the gods are way more gung ho with re-rolling the planet again.) are going to be really hard to get across to her. Also I wonder how the whole "blood oath" aspect of Roy's knowledge base is going to affect the dosing with amnesia potion.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:25
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MikeJF posted:It's a reasonable position, but seems to me she's operating without knowledge of the gods' position on things and what they might do. I wonder if the order will get a chance to inform her. I don't think that would have any impact, and if anything would just make her angrier at them. This strategy is at best pointless and at worst counterproductive to The Order's stated goals! ...So of course it's totally what they're going to do.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:26
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It occurs to me that if they can swing Serini, her point of view and the way she's always considered the NPC races with equality might mean that she's much better equipped to break down Redcloak into giving them that spell. Especially if it does turn out she's friends with the local bugbears and Oona will side with her.Gwyneth Palpate posted:Oh man, Serini has the most incredible magic item possible: Goggles of three dimensional sight! I'm guessing they let her see both the far end of the trap portal and the other side of it at once. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 13:29
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So she used the word conflict. In the exact same context the fiends described "destructive, unnecessary conflict" That's not a coincidence.
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Mar 17, 2021 14:00
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There are loads of stories with epic wizard/sorcerer fights, but we rarely get to see epic rogue fights. I'm pumped.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:25
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SKULL.GIF posted:There are loads of stories with epic wizard/sorcerer fights, but we rarely get to see epic rogue fights. I'm pumped. If you see a rogue fight they've already lost.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:30
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That's a very Belkar expression on Serini in her second to last chapter.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:32
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Yeah, I kinda want siriini and belkar to have some pre-existing relationship, but there's no way this story would do something so hacky as randomly introduce parents as relevant, important people.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:40
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I'm guessing Serini wasn't the one in her group responsible for coming up with plans
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Mar 17, 2021 15:53
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Serini's stated goals here don't line up with her sardonic comment about existing, to me. Obviously it's very easy to explain this as a joke about how dire things have gotten, but in the interest of tedious and baseless speculation I am guessing she is continuing to lie to the paladins for reasons yet to be determined
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Mar 17, 2021 15:59
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I'm guessing Serini wasn't the one in her group responsible for coming up with plans I mean, going by what Shojo told us at the trial, she was the one who came up with the whole "each of us gets a Gate to protect however we choose, no interference from the rest of the group save keeping tabs on if the other Gates have been destroyed or not" plan.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:00
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We have no idea how much of what Shojo said is true.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:03
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She did. Wonder how that worked out for her.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:04
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ultrafilter posted:We have no idea how much of what Shojo said is true. Yes, but we also have no evidence that this one particular thing he said isn't true, so there's no reason to assume that it's automatically wrong until the comic confirms it one way or the other.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:14
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ikanreed posted:Yeah, I kinda want siriini and belkar to have some pre-existing relationship, but there's no way this story would do something so hacky as randomly introduce parents as relevant, important people. I would assume they would have a loving relationship as a contrast, might be fun? I think its unlikely but yeah i wouldnt hate it if they knew each other.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:31
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It'll turn out that Serini is a renowned hero among halflings, and Belkar therefore hates her and everything she stands for.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:38
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Serini has definitely been keeping tabs on the Order, based on her comment in the last panel, so she probably already knows about Belkar and his, uh, proclivities. I am looking forward to them meeting.
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Mar 17, 2021 16:49
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I think an interesting thing would be what if she didn't account for the Order figuring out how to get past the trap?ikanreed posted:Yeah, I kinda want siriini and belkar to have some pre-existing relationship, but there's no way this story would do something so hacky as randomly introduce parents as relevant, important people. Have you read this comic?  I could see it that she had assumed identities when operating in civilization so its possible Belkar knew her but never realized {badass halfling} == Serini; and since Xykon was already a lich when he attacked Serini I think it lines up in the timeline?
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Mar 17, 2021 16:50
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karmicknight posted:I feel like of the two missing data points that collapse her argument (Redcloak's The Plan is a little bit more of an existential threat than she seems to believe, and the gods are way more gung ho with re-rolling the planet again.) are going to be really hard to get across to her. Also I wonder how the whole "blood oath" aspect of Roy's knowledge base is going to affect the dosing with amnesia potion. Redcloak's Plan isn't really an existential threat, at least as far as anyone who wasn't at the Godsmoot knows. It just means divine concessions for the goblins - and Serini seems open to the idea that maybe the goblins really have gotten a raw deal after all. Of course, Serini likely doesn't know about Redcloak's big plan. Sure, she's clearly been scrying a lot, but she probably wouldn't have been able to scry on the two times his plans were revealed in the strip - Tsukiko's murder was in Cloistered territory, and she was probably busy when Durkon had his chat with Redcloak. Though I'm guessing she is well aware that the Order blew up Girard's Gate despite reaching it first, solely because the enemy had spellcasters and they didn't. Wouldn't be surprised if she was a little ticked after seeing that. As for Roy's blood oath, that only binds him to kill Xykon - it doesn't set really set a time limit or give special protections. I get the impression Serini would be perfectly fine with Roy waking up in a tavern with no memory of any of this gate stuff, and going on a new quest to defeat Gate-lord Xykon when the big X starts conquering stuff a couple years down the road.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:08
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I wonder if Serini is gonna kick the orders rear end, then Minrah and Belkar work together similar to their planning session aboard the airboat to defeat Serini.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:28
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Donkringel posted:I wonder if Serini is gonna kick the orders rear end, then Minrah and Belkar work together similar to their planning session aboard the airboat to defeat Serini. Minrah is definitely the wildcard here. It's not very likely that Serini has accounted for her in whatever plans she has.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:40
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Minrah is definitely the wildcard here. It's not very likely that Serini has accounted for her in whatever plans she has. Serini is convinced by one of Minrahs long, rambling diatribes that have a pretty good point in the end.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:55
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DeadBonesBrook posted:Theory - Serini's amnesia potion is used on Belkar and it has such a strong effect that it leads to a total personality shift and him taking on a new name. The last breath of Belkar Bitterleaf is the one that inhales the fumes from the potion. After that, he's a new man. And while he's disoriented, Xykon kills him.
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Mar 17, 2021 17:55
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Otherkinsey Scale posted:And while he's disoriented, Xykon kills him. I'm sure it was commented to death when it happened but I gotta say Belkar almost becoming a vampire was a great fakeout
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Mar 17, 2021 18:05
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Don't forget we still have Orange Voice to reveal. So O'Chul and Lien might still have someone they can convince nearby. Also, Serini is wearing 3d glasses. If I'm actually right about my wild rear end guess that the Snarl can't really see into a 2D realm, I'm going to pat myself on the back until my arm falls off.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:09
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The 3d glasses allow her to turn sideways, greatly enhancing her hide checks.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:30
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Its just getting us all ready when the final confrontation isn't a comic but a full anaglyph animated film
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Mar 17, 2021 18:35
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Vizuyos posted:As for Roy's blood oath, that only binds him to kill Xykon - it doesn't set really set a time limit or give special protections. I get the impression Serini would be perfectly fine with Roy waking up in a tavern with no memory of any of this gate stuff, and going on a new quest to defeat Gate-lord Xykon when the big X starts conquering stuff a couple years down the road. I would imagine that Eugene would throw a massive wrench in that plan, since he’s obviously got a vested interest in seeing Xykon finally dead, though that hinges on a post-mind wipe Roy actually believing him.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:06
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The other thing that occurs to me is her strategy for capturing the paladins will not work on the order. PCs don't play hostage games, Haley has enough sense motive to detect a "you're gonna die" bluff, their highest AC character has to be the first target because he's got cure poison anyway, and he resists poison naturally. A single epic rogue with surprise and a couple magic tricks is massively outclassed by a sub-epic adventuring party.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:29
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ikanreed posted:The other thing that occurs to me is her strategy for capturing the paladins will not work on the order. PCs don't play hostage games, Haley has enough sense motive to detect a "you're gonna die" bluff, their highest AC character has to be the first target because he's got cure poison anyway, and he resists poison naturally. You don't think it's possible for Serini to have a different plan for a party of 7 than she had for a pair of paladins?
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Mar 17, 2021 19:35
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Whatever her plans are, Serini's not prepared for a group of high-level adventurers who function as a team.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:41
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SKULL.GIF posted:You don't think it's possible for Serini to have a different plan for a party of 7 than she had for a pair of paladins? It's tough though. The main characteristic of a 6 person party like that is adaptability. There's a few ways to beat that like overwhelming force, pre-planned targeted traps, splitting the party, or catching them in the middle of another level-appropriate challenge. But ambush and cleverness probably isn't enough.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:44
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ikanreed posted:It's tough though. The main characteristic of a 6 person party like that is adaptability. There's a few ways to beat that like overwhelming force, pre-planned targeted traps, splitting the party, or catching them in the middle of another level-appropriate challenge. I mean, the Oots are still in the middle of dungeon she designed to protect the gate and she has at least one more unseen ally, so I can easily see everything of the above, with the possible exception of overhelming force, being on the table.
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Mar 17, 2021 19:57
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What if her compatriot is one of the Fiends? It’d line up with this page establishing that she’s willing to do literally anything aside from destroying the Gate, and it’s not like she gives a rat’s rear end about what goes on in hell.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:08
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She's almost definitely gonna try the poison gambit and successfully take out Roy and Durkon, because Elan picked up Neutralize Poison the last time poison was central to the encounter involving a tragic half-greenskin so committed to neutrality she wanted to stop the heroes from attempting to foil the villain, and there's no way that doesn't come up.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:30
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Absurd Alhazred posted:If you see a rogue fight they've already lost. Yeah, she's going to be going after them on her own turf, when they have no reason to be expecting her showing up as a threat to them and are focused on dealing with Team Evil. This is setup for less of a fight, more of her picking them off one by one. The Chad Jihad posted:Serini's stated goals here don't line up with her sardonic comment about existing, to me. Obviously it's very easy to explain this as a joke about how dire things have gotten, but in the interest of tedious and baseless speculation I am guessing she is continuing to lie to the paladins for reasons yet to be determined Well, as she said, you don't need to explain yourself to someone who's not even going to remember it, so the fact that she's bothered to spend so much time talking to them would suggest that she does indeed have a reason for doing so instead of ignoring them. Besides letting the audience see all this, I mean. Regalingualius posted:What if her compatriot is one of the Fiends? It’d line up with this page establishing that she’s willing to do literally anything aside from destroying the Gate, and it’s not like she gives a rat’s rear end about what goes on in hell. I don't think so. She's trying to non-lethally take out the good guys despite them being a potential world-ending threat, from her perspective, so for all her pragmatism she's still good (or at least good-leaning; she can't be that far gone yet), and dealing with the Fiends seems like something that'd be too much for her. Also, being a rogue and all, she should know better than to risk getting suckered by them, since there would absolutely be a catch for them to want to help her, and she'd know that. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 20:32
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Serini's plan is doomed by all the people outside her reach. Even if she managed to scrub the minds of the Order and both paladins, she can't get to Hinjo and his crew, to Bandana and her crew, to Durkon's whole family, to Red Starshine and his guerilla band, to Hilgya, or to Julia. And even if she could manage all that, she sure as hell can't reach Thor! All she can do with this tactic is delay the battle by however long it takes the Order or the Pallys to check in with someone in the know.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:37
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Regalingualius posted:What if her compatriot is one of the Fiends? It’d line up with this page establishing that she’s willing to do literally anything aside from destroying the Gate, and it’s not like she gives a rat’s rear end about what goes on in hell. The fiends want the Gate destroyed, though. Their one appearance in the last book was complaining that Hel failed and that the gods weren't going to do their work for them.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:45
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She also doesn't know the the Gods will pull the plug on the world rather than risk if if Xykon and Redcloak win.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:47
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Vizuyos posted:Redcloak's Plan isn't really an existential threat, at least as far as anyone who wasn't at the Godsmoot knows. It just means divine concessions for the goblins - and Serini seems open to the idea that maybe the goblins really have gotten a raw deal after all. Of course, Serini likely doesn't know about Redcloak's big plan. Sure, she's clearly been scrying a lot, but she probably wouldn't have been able to scry on the two times his plans were revealed in the strip - Tsukiko's murder was in Cloistered territory, and she was probably busy when Durkon had his chat with Redcloak. Wasn't the blood oath "kill Xykon or die trying" and didn't Roy successfully discharge his part of the oath by dying? Also, doesn't that mean strictly speaking the obligation of the oath rests upon his sister, Julia?
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Mar 17, 2021 20:49
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