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dutch left winger: painstakingly researching candidates and parties for months, deliberating, discussing, doing more research, doing more deliberating, then voting ~pragmatically~ instead of voting for the party that aligns with leftist ideology dutch right winger: votes for the guy who is doing speeches in latin about reconstructing a white europa... to trigger the elites
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Mar 17, 2021 13:19
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oliwan posted:dutch left winger: painstakingly researching candidates and parties for months, deliberating, discussing, doing more research, doing more deliberating, then voting ~pragmatically~ instead of voting for the party that aligns with leftist ideology It's called being a lib op.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:20
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oliwan posted:dutch left winger: painstakingly researching candidates and parties for months, deliberating, discussing, doing more research, doing more deliberating, then voting ~pragmatically~ instead of voting for the party that aligns with leftist ideology God that speech was such an infuriating thing. And then a comedian makes, admittedly, bad jokes about him to the point that he walks away because he got his feefees hurt and people go WOW THAT'S SO RUDE, I HAVE TO VOTE FOR BAUDET TO SHOW I'M NOT LIKE THAT COMEDIAN.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:23
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genericnick posted:It's called being a lib op. i know op, i know. i think it speaks to the fact that the left is dead in the Netherlands, and libs see themselves as leftists, and so do the other parties and the media. Having said that, I have seen the same impulse in actually leftist people in NL.
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Mar 17, 2021 13:37
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i'm definitely guilty of voting for "least bad" option here in slovenia until an actual left party popped up. since they did tho, i've been voting for the socialist party every time and it owns. has 8/90 seats in the natl assembly now
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Mar 17, 2021 13:44
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I stopped with the “lesser evil” bullshit a decade ago and never looked back. What was my preferred local fringe movement in Croatia at the time grew into a viable leftist option that squeezed out the antiquated SDP as the number two party in the country. We’re probably getting the first leftist mayor of Zagreb this spring after 1990. fake edit: I don’t take credit for any of this
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Mar 17, 2021 14:02
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Take the plunge! Okay! posted:I stopped with the “lesser evil” bullshit a decade ago and never looked back. What was my preferred local fringe movement in Croatia at the time grew into a viable leftist option that squeezed out the antiquated SDP as the number two party in the country. We’re probably getting the first leftist mayor of Zagreb this spring after 1990. Maybe it squeezed out SDP as the no. 2 party in Zagreb, certainly not in the country. They have 5 MPs, SDP has 30-something.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:30
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Doctor Jeep posted:Maybe it squeezed out SDP as the no. 2 party in Zagreb, certainly not in the country. They have 5 MPs, SDP has 30-something. Fair point, I rechecked the latest polls, Možemo is still third. But the shitlib social democrats are on the way to the dustbin of history, I am fairly certain of that.
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Mar 17, 2021 15:33
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Do ballots in other EU countries also look like this? https://twitter.com/bencoates1/status/1372167535605518338?s=20
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Mar 17, 2021 17:39
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twoday posted:Do ballots in other EU countries also look like this?  i lol everytime i see this sign around town and that's not all the parties that are on the ballot
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Mar 17, 2021 18:35
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I mean every few weeks there's a new splinter right wing party forming from a different right wing party and they all need to maintain their income.
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Mar 17, 2021 18:46
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They do have to pay a €11.250 deposit for the privilege, which they don't get back if they don't get seats. But I guess that's just pocket change from your Panama stash if you're one of those people.
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Mar 17, 2021 20:44
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I did end up voting for BIJ1 and I’m glad to see polls predicting a seat going their way.  Perhaps we’ll see much better results four years from now once this crisis is in the rear-view window, but I’m not too hopeful. I see an endless VVD reign in our future.
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Mar 17, 2021 21:32
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Left wing lost massively, extreme right made significant gains and the shitlibs D66 made the most gains. Likeliest coalition is the same as the current one, so the next 4 years are going to be more of the same.
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Mar 17, 2021 21:44
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PVV lost seats to FvD, but I don't know where the leftist vote went? D66?
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Mar 17, 2021 21:55
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An insane mind posted:PVV lost seats to FvD, but I don't know where the leftist vote went? D66? Sure seems like that. I guess a lot of people agree with D66’s platform of “poor people are suffering the exact right amount.”
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Mar 17, 2021 21:58
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spankmeister posted:Left wing lost massively, extreme right made significant gains and the shitlibs D66 made the most gains. They finally got the temperature of the lakes of boiling lead just right. Don't fiddle with the system now!
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Mar 17, 2021 22:00
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JordanKai posted:Sure seems like that. I guess a lot of people agree with D66’s platform of “poor people are suffering the exact right amount.” lesser of two evils thinking is one hell of a drug
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Mar 17, 2021 22:01
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I can't believe if volt gets 3 seats what loving moron votes for the "gosh isn't the eu great party!!!" WHO is falling for this Brussels op?
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Mar 17, 2021 22:05
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JordanKai posted:Sure seems like that. I guess a lot of people agree with D66’s platform of “poor people are suffering the exact right amount.” My sister and brother were saying D66 was the most environmentally focused party they could vote for. And I was like...just vote left instead...but I'm the weird but lovable lefty cook in their eyes so that fell on deaf ears. Honestly, PVV losing seats makes me really happy and I hope Wilders tries to eat Baudet.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:07
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I saw a quote from Dominic Raab that he is unhappy the EU is threatening to block vaccine exports to the UK. Isn't this exactly what the UK and US have been actually doing? Do they think we're second class to them? edit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/17/eu-threatens-to-halt-covid-vaccine-exports-to-uk-unless-it-gets-fair-share Here's a garbage article from an island of losers complaining about the EU growing a pair finally. Dirk Pitt has issued a correction as of 22:14 on Mar 17, 2021 |
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Mar 17, 2021 22:07
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The Puppet Master posted:I can't believe if volt gets 3 seats what loving moron votes for the "gosh isn't the eu great party!!!" WHO is falling for this Brussels op? it's libs mate.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:19
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Dirk Pitt posted:Do they think we're second class to them? Absolutely they do. The Brits really believe they're superior, and the americans are mostly just very selfish.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:24
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The Puppet Master posted:I can't believe if volt gets 3 seats what loving moron votes for the "gosh isn't the eu great party!!!" WHO is falling for this Brussels op? I really have no clue who these people are. They came out of nowhere. I'm sure they did a lot of polling and research to see how they could come out on top of the "stemwijzers" and for lots of people they came out on top and they went yeah okay.
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Mar 17, 2021 22:26
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bedpan posted:lesser of two evils thinking is one hell of a drug who the hell votes that way in a multiparty, proportional system aarrrgh
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Mar 17, 2021 22:48
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i say swears online posted:who the hell votes that way in a multiparty, proportional system aarrrgh Have you met a Dutch person?
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Mar 17, 2021 22:51
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spankmeister posted:I really have no clue who these people are. They came out of nowhere. I'm sure they did a lot of polling and research to see how they could come out on top of the "stemwijzers" and for lots of people they came out on top and they went yeah okay. So many loving people just do what the Stemwijzers tell them to do. Whoever decides which questions get asked in these has a not insignificant amount of electoral influence.
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Mar 17, 2021 23:35
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Doesn't help that the Stemwijzers are way too narrow. Joke example below:code:
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Mar 17, 2021 23:48
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Zedd posted:Doesn't help that the Stemwijzers are way too narrow. Joke example below: Hey at least we have some more tax exemptions for the wealthy and coorperations to look forward to.
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Mar 18, 2021 00:17
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i say swears online posted:who the hell votes that way in a multiparty, proportional system aarrrgh ah, well in a multiparty, proportional system you have to be even more aware of making the less than evil choice because if you were to vote for the leftists, then all the rightwing voters would still vote rightwing and claim a proportionally larger number of the seats!  the real reason behind the reason is that neoliberalism has indoctrinated generations of people into accepting that not only are better things not possible, trying for better things is bad, and those who want things to be better have an outsized responsibility to make "pragmatic" compromises. Centrist/technocratic/moderate voters are already confident of the superiority of their pragmatic position and see making a pragmatic choice in supporting a leftwing candidate to be a betrayal of their position in exchange for nothing. Also, since they are the sensible adults in the room, it is the responsibility of everyone else to grow up. Leftists betraying their positions in exchange for nothing is party plank, on the other hand.
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Mar 18, 2021 01:02
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i say swears online posted:who the hell votes
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Mar 18, 2021 08:40
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It actually looks like some old SP (socialist party) voters went for the FvD, holy crap. Is that protest voters, or just like...floating voters? I don't see how you can call yourself left and vote for racists.
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Mar 18, 2021 12:18
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A good couple hundred thousand voters constantly float between SP and PVV. And now apparently also FvD? They vote for whoever they see as the most anti-system I think. And yes, these are mostly people who want things to be fairer economically but also believe non-white people need to shut up about racism. To be honest, this has a long history in leftism. See for example old timey unions who really did fight hard and win victories for the (white) working class from capital being racist as hell. I'm talking in like, the 20s and 30s. It's why socialists get accused of class reductionism on the regular. Both when that is a valid and not a valid criticism. Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 12:26 on Mar 18, 2021 |
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Mar 18, 2021 12:23
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Orange Devil posted:A good couple hundred thousand voters constantly float between SP and PVV. And now apparently also FvD? They vote for whoever they see as the most anti-system I think. And yes, these are mostly people who want things to be fairer economically but also believe non-white people need to shut up about racism. Ugh, any good books I can read about this or articles? I sometimes get the feeling I have a too...rosy? view of the left and think we're all in it for the good of all people. I am now extra glad I went for Bij1 instead of SP, the colour of someone's skin shouldn't matter but it's really annoying that it does.
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Mar 18, 2021 12:39
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the old labour movements in my country had very clear examples of rejecting national chauvinism in a lot of cases - the border eastwards to finland and sweden was very porous and so you had a ton of anti-finnish sentiment in particular, but there's documented cases of workers fighting for equal pay for finns, though i expect many of the workers were racist af (including the finns, to be fair) there's a perfectly reasonable and intuitive anti-racist position to be found here, is what i'm saying. the reason that the left gets called class reductionist is because people don't want to consider modern western society as a class society, because the great class compromise period was such a good time for everyone and it's much more comfortable to imagine that it's still in effect so we can universalise basically middle-class issues. i'm sure there are bona fide class reductionist individuals and organisations out there, but i haven't seen it be anything like the force you'd think it was from the way Greens etc drone on about it
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Mar 18, 2021 12:46
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a big issue with the parties of the class compromise is that they've transformed into small-c conservative populist parties. the mass base for a serious proletarian party is simply not there in most european countries, because the proletariat is to a large extent exported and a great deal of the domestic workers you'd need to rely on are foreign guest workers - in my country, swedes, polish people, people from the baltic, etc - who don't plan on staying around and who are much less incentivised to fight for improved pay and conditions - or to engage seriously with local politics
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Mar 18, 2021 12:52
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Orange Devil posted:It's why socialists get accused of class reductionism on the regular. Both when that is a valid and not a valid criticism. That's not really wrong, but I don't think I have ever seen class reductionsim deployed in good faith.
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Mar 18, 2021 12:59
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Also, the SP had some pretty explicit anti-immigrant views in the last few years, at least more so than the other left-wing parties. That's why many younger leftists turned away from it already, and the remaining ones are probably attracted to PVV and FvD as well.
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Mar 18, 2021 13:53
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television has rotted people's brains https://twitter.com/SamJamesMorgan/status/1372472355629449216
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Mar 18, 2021 15:01
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Entropist posted:Also, the SP had some pretty explicit anti-immigrant views in the last few years, at least more so than the other left-wing parties. That's why many younger leftists turned away from it already, and the remaining ones are probably attracted to PVV and FvD as well. Turns out that being a socialist party with nationalist tendencies isn’t a viable strategy to attract racists when there are actual fascists to vote for instead
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Mar 18, 2021 15:09
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