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Continuity NIP posted:Our leaders are a trans woman and a gay man, we're not driving minorities out. So I'm guess I'm still a member then... Please don't try to tell me what my own experience in the party was. ThomasPaine posted:Yeah I have no idea of the biology but the fact I had basically zero side effects makes me intuitively wonder whether I would have probably been asymptomatic or just a little under the weather if I'd got actual covid the vaccine side effects are not related to the symptoms of Covid just to your immune system spiking up Rumda fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 13:54
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https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1372876000598618116?s=19 Starmer found someone he does want to resign.
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Mar 19, 2021 13:59
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Rumda posted:So I'm guess I'm still a member then... so when you claimed the party was "driving out minorities" you actually meant "I (a minority) was driven out"
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Mar 19, 2021 13:59
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Rumda posted:the vaccine side effects are not related to the symptoms of Covid just to your immune system spiking up A significant chunk of symptoms from covid, like any illness, are symptoms of your immune response rather than damage being done by the microorganism. Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1372876000598618116?s=19 Hahaha lord what is this dumbass doing. I think Labour is missing a trick when it comes to Scotland. If they took a consciously neutral stance to independence ('its up to the Scots to decide but we support either decision') they'd probably regain seats north of the border and be in a position to make useful allies with the SNP. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 14:00
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Hello UKMT I made this at 4am in some kind of centrist fugue state.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:01
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Butternubs posted:Hello UKMT I made this at 4am in some kind of centrist fugue state.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:03
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ItohRespectArmy posted:so when you claimed the party was "driving out minorities" you actually meant "I (a minority) was driven out" I wasn't the only one who left or was kicked out during that situation
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Mar 19, 2021 14:04
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Payndz posted:Kier Parma? The peoples princes (ham)
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Mar 19, 2021 14:04
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Rumda posted:I wasn't the only one who left or was kicked out during that situation ah right, gotcha.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:05
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ItohRespectArmy posted:ah right, gotcha. Including the inclusion and diversity officer one of the founding members after she protested me being kicked from the party slack for expressing concerns about the leader's attitude towards platforming Fash
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Mar 19, 2021 14:09
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Would be good to get a lowdown on exactly what went down with that (NIP stuff) and if anything’s changed.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:15
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Jakabite posted:Would be good to get a lowdown on exactly what went down with that (NIP stuff) and if anything’s changed. from my experience as a member it has been pretty good, the general meetings are held fairly often and there is plenty of democratic mechanisms, I suppose the biggest criticism is that alot of the work is done on the slack where it's generally people who volunteer in certain areas that could probably use more transparency. I don't know about rumda's experience since it was before I joined but I think the policy with regards to fash is pro dunking on them and using them as examples for what the party is against. personally I agree that no platforming them would be best but in general I'm a pretty passive supporter of the party and I know there's ukmt'ers who are more active and probably more informed than me on stuff like this.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:23
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*seat belt warning light begins to flash*
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Mar 19, 2021 14:37
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ThomasPaine posted:I think Labour is missing a trick when it comes to Scotland. If they took a consciously neutral stance to independence ('its up to the Scots to decide but we support either decision') they'd probably regain seats north of the border and be in a position to make useful allies with the SNP. Errrrrm, while i think this is possibly the correct stance, I don't think it's a vote winner or a tenable position. Scottish politics for at least the last decade or so has been more or less exclusively focused on the idea of independence, so not having a position on it seems a nightmare from any electoral messaging perspective. Labour's voters were very much split on the issue (much like with Brexit) and they've been electorally punished for not being the "natural" party of either independence or of no to independence. They kind of scrabbled around trying to be the second one, but they were always playing catch up to the Tories and it hasn't worked. As far as I can tell, Sarwar is just going to keep doing exactly the same thing (he is bad). Scottish Labour don't exactly have much to lose at this point, so it'd be interesting for an academic perspective to see what happened if they tried to be neutral on independence, but given the way the Scottish electorate is I really don't see that working. I think there's a lot of parallels with Brexit in a structural sense in how a constitutional issue has changed the way the electorate identifies themselves politically, and in both cases it's really not worked out well for Labour
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Mar 19, 2021 14:38
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So obviously what we need to do is recreate the same problem in as many places and in as many ways as possible.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:42
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This Sturgeon story is such a transparent plot to neutralise Scottish independence it hurts.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:44
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Does anyone even give a gently caress? I feel like appealing to parliamentary procedure is a total lost cause now that politicians can do literally anything without consequence.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:46
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i think it's just an attempt at the corbyn playbook but on a significantly less emotive issue, I don't think it'll stick.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:47
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Cyril Sneeer posted:Yeah I have this after my 1st AZ shot earlier in the week. Woke up freezing cold, then a couple of hours later boiling, kept alternating for about 10 hours with a bit of a headache too. Paracetamol helped, and I was mostly fine after 24h or so. Yeah I'm back to shivering and freezing, felt fine in the morning so I went out and did some work but after 12ish I started feeling tired and sore again, just slept a few hours, woke up wit a cat slung over me and my teeth are literally chattering. I think this is a good time for some tea.... feedmegin posted:Iirc if you've actually had the 'roni the first injection can have the extra unpleasant side effects. So could be that? I have no idea, if I had it then it must've been very low symptom. The kids and my SO all got tested (negative) but not me since I was never sick.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:49
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The general public doesn't really care about anti-semitism either but if it's an excuse to dislike someone they want to or are told to dislike then the intelligentsia are going to make it stick.
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Mar 19, 2021 14:50
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Niric posted:I think there's a lot of parallels with Brexit in a structural sense in how a constitutional issue has changed the way the electorate identifies themselves politically, and in both cases it's really not worked out well for Labour Yeah, who exactly is supposed to be the target market of ‘I am only a politician, you can’t expect me to propose solutions to political problems’? There would be an opportunity for a hypothetical competent party to take the line of ‘the status quo sucks, independence will suck worse, why are they making you pick between two bad choices?’ I mean, outside the framework of the EU, independence is either a polite fiction, or a hard border. And one where serious money is spent on tank divisions prepared to fight the English army. What is it that makes anything genuinely better impossible? Corruption, incompetence, or merely lack of vision?
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Mar 19, 2021 15:22
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Does anyone even give a gently caress? I feel like appealing to parliamentary procedure is a total lost cause now that politicians can do literally anything without consequence. I think it will be enough to probably stop the SNP from gaining the majority it needs to call another referendum, but not enough to knock the SNP out of control. Which to be honest works fine for everyone including the less radical parts of the SNP. Basically the whole thing is a storm in a teacup and although Sturgeon has probably damaged her reputation, everyone really dislikes Salmond and thinks he's a sex pest.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:23
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gh0stpinballa posted:This is actually quite an interesting take. I'm something of a Mafia amateur historian, I'd never considered this angle before. Only thing I'd say is the Sicilian Mafia at one time very much viewed itself as a shadow state, or state within a state I guess. An informal instrument of local government. I don't know too much about Highland clans, I would assume the English chose favourites and used them to suppress other more troublesome clans though, again as an instrument of local government in a sense. I think it'd be fairer to portray it as "the government" than the English because the same thing happened really going back to...well, probably the days before there was a united Scotland, always pressure from the centre to reduce the autonomy of the provinces. And that got more so by the time the Stewarts were Kings. Especially after the crushing of the Lord of the Isles Aonghas Og in the very late 15th century. Really it's familiar to the tales across feudal Europe, even if the ties lasted longer here. In the end, especially after Culloden & the '45 Jacobite Rebellion, there was a bunch of laws passed aimed at "civilising" the barbaric Highlanders, the chiefs all sent their kids to places like Eton & Harrow & they became a proper part of the British establishment while the plebs got kicked off the land and had their homes burned down to make way for much more profitable sheep. Funny, I was reading something else this morning & ended up discovering that the son of the current Chief of Clan Cameron of Locheil is one of my MSPs (a Tory of course). Prick.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:24
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Niric posted:Errrrrm, while i think this is possibly the correct stance, I don't think it's a vote winner or a tenable position. Scottish politics for at least the last decade or so has been more or less exclusively focused on the idea of independence, so not having a position on it seems a nightmare from any electoral messaging perspective. Labour's voters were very much split on the issue (much like with Brexit) and they've been electorally punished for not being the "natural" party of either independence or of no to independence. They kind of scrabbled around trying to be the second one, but they were always playing catch up to the Tories and it hasn't worked. As far as I can tell, Sarwar is just going to keep doing exactly the same thing (he is bad). Neutrality is a position, not a lack of one. It's an open admission that the question doesn't neatly slide into the established ideological lines the political system usually operates on, and avoids alienating either core Yes or core No voters. That's absolutely vital because as you say, those core voters will not in a million years vote for a party that takes the opposite stance towards the independence issue. That's why piles of Labour people went SNP back in 2015, and even though they haven't maintained quite such a stranghold on power, they're still easily the dominant party in Scotland. But also remember that back then Tories didn't really make gains either - unionist Labour didn't defect right because Labour's official stance was unionist, but the No vote was split while the SNP sucked up all the Yes voters and won big. Had Labour kept an officially 'free vote on independence' line, they would have kept their unionist wing while also giving their nationalists no real reason to jump ship. The mistake wasn't realising that they couldn't win by playing the game - Tories are almost uniformly unionists and the SNP are almost uniformly nationalists, but Labour always was split down the middle on the issue.* Of course they tore themselves apart. Also, a neutral policy saying we won't prevent a referendum, we'd respect it, and we'd not take an executive stance is a direct acknowledgement that it is not for anyone but Scottish citizens to decide, and I do genuinely believe that a huge amount of anti-Labour and pro-indy rhetoric is directly created by that justified perception that no Westminster politician actually gives a gently caress about or respects Scotland. So even if behind the scenes the leadership was pro-union, just not saying it would be a more successful strategy that lecturing the electorate on how dumb an idea it is. *I always love that there's usually a solid 2% or so support for independence amongst UKIP supporters in the polls, and about the same number of vehemently unionist SNP voters. Who are these people? Reminds me of the one pro-indy Scottish fash group who managed to alienate literally every single other political group in the entire UK. ItohRespectArmy posted:i think it's just an attempt at the corbyn playbook but on a significantly less emotive issue, I don't think it'll stick. Yeah, Corbyn wasn't ever massively popular at a personal level which made the character assassination an open goal, and they still barely managed. Sturgeon is absurdly popular in Scotland and is also a far more competent politician so she's not going anywhere. Often Abbreviated posted:The clans weren't exactly united as a polity, so there were both pro- and anti- Jacobite clans fighting in the '45 rebellion for instance, but they all shared the ability to raise significant numbers of fighting men very quickly, and so the whole system needed to be dismantled regardless of whether any individual clan was loyalist or not. The state demands monopoly on the use of force, and having a sleeping independent army in your hinterland is just too destabilising for any state to bear. Crazy that so much of Scotland looked like this into the 1700s 
ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 15:27
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Alex Salmond is definitely a sex pest, i can think of two seperate incidents from women who have told me personally they encountered him and we was acting extremely weird and innapropriate. Despite being found not-guilty there probably a great deal of truth to the allegations made by multiple women. It's really galling that this issue will do more to damage the reputation of Sturgeon than that of a man who if not guilty of *checks notes* attempted rape probably at least came close to it. I still dont fully understand Sturgeon's crime here? She had a meeting where she implied she'd make it go away for him, then instead encouraged more woment to come forward, then forgot or mixed up dates of some meeting about it? And this then means that she technically lied to parliament. It seems like a lot of bullshit, I doubt it will cut through at all to the public. It does erode some of the SNP support from the pro-Salmond/Cherry/TERF faction, but gently caress those people anyway, they're all zoomer cunts. keep punching joe fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 15:36
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I don't follow Scottish politics that closely, but:- surely Salmond is done? He's obviously a creep, there's a tonne of credible accusations & that one "not proven" verdict
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Mar 19, 2021 15:40
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keep punching joe posted:Alex Salmond is definitely a sex pest Ya think??? 
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Mar 19, 2021 15:41
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keep punching joe posted:Alex Salmond is definitely a sex pest, i can think of two seperate incidents of women who have told me personally they encountered him and we was acting extremely weird and innapropriate. Despite being found not-guilty there probably a great deal of truth to the allegations made by multiple women. It's really galling that this issue will do more to damage the reputation of Sturgeon than that of a man who if not guilty of *checks notes* attempted rape probably at least came close to it. It's too difficult to understand, which is one reason why it won't really stick. It fundamentally comes down to her attempting to influence one side or another to come forward, and her relationship with Salmond. She probably knew like the rest of them that he was a sex pest, but let it slide, which is bad. Then when things started to heat up, she started supporting the victims, which is good, but she did it the wrong way. Then there's cover ups and supposedly not telling the whole truth and blah blah blah. She basically didn't do the right thing at the right time when she should have, and is facing the consequences for trying to defend her friend and mentor, who is now throwing her under the bus to boost the pro-Salmond/Cherry/TERF/radicalist wing of the SNP, who want to drive the the party hard right. quote:I don't follow Scottish politics that closely, but:- surely Salmond is done? He's obviously a creep, there's a tonne of credible accusations & that one "not proven" verdict There are rumours he wanted to re-enter politics, but yes after this he's done.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:43
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Necrothatcher posted:This Sturgeon story is such a transparent plot to neutralise Scottish independence it hurts.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:47
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Communist Bear posted:There are rumours he wanted to re-enter politics, but yes after this he's done. Disgraced Former Defence Secretary Liam Fox would like a word with you
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Mar 19, 2021 15:49
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Borrovan posted:I don't follow Scottish politics that closely, but:- surely Salmond is done? He's obviously a creep, there's a tonne of credible accusations & that one "not proven" verdict ...Probably? Highly doubt he's returning to parliament as a member of the SNP but depending on how the current struggle goes between Sturgeonites & Salmondites (lol, they loving barely disagree, this is dumb) I won't entirely rule out the possibility of Salmond doing a full Tommy Sheridan & creating a new party that ensures the old party can't win much & neither can his. And with politicians, well, who knows? For the sake of Scottish politics I certainly hope Sturgeons side wins, less because of herself & more because of the quality of her opponents, not just Salmond but also wannabe TERF-in-Chief Cherry.
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Mar 19, 2021 15:50
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Disgraced former Secretary of State for International Development Priti Patel
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Mar 19, 2021 15:50
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1372876000598618116?s=19 for a minute i thought he was being interviewed by the plant, and based on his expression and body language he was being outmanuevred by it
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Mar 19, 2021 15:54
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Starmer triangulated so instead of Between Two Ferns he did an interview Beside One Plant
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Mar 19, 2021 15:57
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Rumda posted:They have driven minorities out of their party for speaking against platforming TERFs and Fash, or more specifically for doubting the wisdom of their leader when he said that it's the only way to defeat them. Honest question since I've not been following NIP but when did this happen?
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Mar 19, 2021 15:58
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Gonzo McFee posted:https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1372876000598618116?s=19 I think that potted plant is giving up its will to live due to mere proximity. I swear I can see it wilting moment by moment in a still photo.
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Mar 19, 2021 16:04
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:for a minute i thought he was being interviewed by the plant, and based on his expression and body language he was being outmanuevred by it "What kind of plant are you? I'm the MI5 kind"
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Mar 19, 2021 16:05
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Bobstar posted:"What kind of plant are you? I'm the MI5 kind"
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Mar 19, 2021 16:07
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lol at the top voted comment on that Starmer/Sturgeon article.a white hot ball of pure rage posted:That's hyperbolic nonsense. The SNP is trying to social engineer the Scots population with transgenderism, but is not being honest about the practical consequences of that for women and girls and their right to single-sex toilets, changing spaces and sports. That's the threat here in Scotland from Sturgeon's SNP, which isn't the SNP that people have voted for in the past
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Mar 19, 2021 16:11
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Nevermind that hyperbolic nonsense, here's MY hyperbolic nonsense
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Mar 19, 2021 16:12
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