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Personally I find people being angry extremely relatable. It's weirder if you aren't, honestly.
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Mar 20, 2021 12:09
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ItohRespectArmy posted:accusing everyone in this thread of being a cishet is very tiring, especially when you're incorrect about it. I absolutely understand why Rumda might be a little tired and irritable having to constantly be the one pointing out transphobia, constantly having to pretend to be ok about it when it hurts her, and why that might translate to her stance coming across as agressive sometimes. She shouldn't have to do the emotional labour of being polite every time someone steps on her identity, whether they meant to or not. Transphobia doesn't always come from a conscious or malicious place, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be called out. And when a trans person calls it out, the absolute least people can do is take a second to listen and self examine. Honestly, would you be ok if an issue that attacked your identity kept coming up? I don't mean this as a personal attack on you, I mean that for the purposes of this argument, I want you to take one thing about your identity you feel sensitive about and imagine that people are doing constant microagressions against it (again, not necessarily consciously or maliciously). Do you think you could, or should remain polite and nonconfrontational in the face of that barrage? ItohRespectArmy posted:Nobody is arguing what happened wasn't transphobia and that it wasn't poo poo. In the moment someone realises there's a problem, they have a choice. They could say "Oh poo poo sorry, you're right, how do I not get this wrong?" But they don't, people in general go super defensive and start saying why they're not. And I'm tired of pretending that it's ok. She corrected me during the GIC discussion. I took the time to read what she wrote in good faith, and not just scanning it for phrases I could refute. I realised that I had an incorrect assumption, and instead of falling for the outrage at being 'intellectually cucked' (as VitP puts it) by having by beautiful ideas assaulted, I saw that I was wrong and I later acknowledged that. This forum is called Debate and Discussion. We shouldn't have to entertain people who cannot accept the possibility that they might be wrong. Beyond the threadshitting, beyond the ethical stances and beyond everything else, if you need a fundamental reason people like Pissflaps and VitP should go, it's this. I don't get the hate on Breath Ray for example. A lot of the time when they post, someone will throw up the phrase 'literal nazi' because of something they were linked to either offsite or in another thread. I've yet to see them argue for anything racist in here. But I see VitP going through the same loop again and again. Lays low and engages mostly with newbies. After a while even they will challenge him when he lets slip by using woke as an insult or by just outright attacking someone. Then he starts getting quoted, everyone who had him on ignore starts telling him to gently caress off, and a bunch of people who don't see this happening again and again start accusing us of driving him out because they only saw the latest flare up. Defend your position, absolutely. But nobody is getting a trophy, or a scholarship or anything meaninful at the end of this. We're not fighting for points to win here. There should be more good faith discussions going on, and that means when everyone is telling someone like Vit P that they're wrong, they should be willing to entertain that possibility rather than laying low for a while and then hopping right back on their bullshit after a while. When all someone doing is flaring up with anti progressive freeze peach poo poo every few weeks and learning absolutely nothing - they're not debating, they're not discussing; they're waving their precious opinion around and having a tantrum when someone does actually challenge it. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 12:14
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Don't get me wrong, trans people who suck are real,I exist for example, but I just want to get across that it's really easy to label minorities as aggressive or angry when all they're doing is asserting their own experiences, stories and discrimination
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Mar 20, 2021 12:15
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https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372844041113542657 when we did this poo poo in america after 9/11 it was dumb as poo poo glad to see it’s coming back here
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Mar 20, 2021 12:23
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 to all in this postI mean, I'm not privy to any off-site drama or whatever, but the least people could do in this thread would be to at least consider that they might still be wrong or biased or accidentally insensitive despite all the Correct Leftist Opinions they hold or how much of a Good Person they consider themselves to be or whatever. Especially when called out by trans posters in a way that frankly doesn't seem all that aggressive or rude, really. "Well, akshualy"-ing in response is honestly a bit low, in my opinion. Yeah being called out doesn't feel nice I suppose, but I'd assume that it kind of pales in comparison with what trans people go through in this country, and many other countries. nurmie fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 12:28
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OwlFancier posted:I am not sure if I do? I think the NIP stuff should probably be discussed, especially if we're going to support the party even as a meme.
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Mar 20, 2021 12:28
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https://twitter.com/GuyTories/status/1372976946401972224?s=19 Lmao its all such a grift. Now you can be suspended for calling for lynching black people and get paid as a free speech warrior for it.
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Mar 20, 2021 12:28
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I have no idea what a wokescold is and i enjoy my life this wayContinuity RCP posted:Vice signalling? sounds to me like a Victorian era crime misuse of the telegraph as a primitive form of cyber-sex maybe 
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Mar 20, 2021 12:29
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bump_fn posted:https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1372844041113542657 I remember asking during the US election and primaries do they have companies all over the country that sell giant US flags or do they have a whole team following people around putting them up. Bobby Deluxe posted:I mean the NIP stuff is a specific example. She says she has concerns about the NIP leadership, NIP guy says "Nah it's fine," no details are brought up, everyone seems to shrug and say 'maybe they both have a point,' when it kind of seems like Rumda's point is that she was kicked out of the slack without her concerns being addressed. I wasn't sure if something else was meant than that but yeah I agree that "it's fine we're a good party it's just twitter drama not important" is not a good or convincing rebuttal. Sounds dodgy to me. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 12:29
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Ash Crimson posted:Don't get me wrong, trans people who suck are real,I exist for example, but I just want to get across that it's really easy to label minorities as aggressive or angry when all they're doing is asserting their own experiences, stories and discrimination I like you and don’t really get why you get so much poo poo for your views on Scotland and the U.K. to be honest. I get what you’re saying, I know a lot of trans people and the vast majority I find Very Sound. After VitP’s frankly completely unhinged attack on Rumda i do think it’s time to get them out the thread. I can handle having VitP around if just for someone to argue with but that really crossed a line. E: yeah I literally can’t form an opinion on the NIP stuff cos no ones giving any details. Jakabite fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 12:30
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what
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Mar 20, 2021 12:34
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more vicious in here than a civil service typing pool reunion imo
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Mar 20, 2021 12:36
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Jakabite posted:I like you and don’t really get why you get so much poo poo for your views on Scotland and the U.K. to be honest. I get what you’re saying, I know a lot of trans people and the vast majority I find Very Sound. After VitP’s frankly completely unhinged attack on Rumda i do think it’s time to get them out the thread. I can handle having VitP around if just for someone to argue with but that really crossed a line. I appreciate it
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Mar 20, 2021 12:36
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Some of us limit our exposure to social media and/or other forums because those things are a cancer to mental health. If I want examples of people being absolute cunts to other people, I can I need no evidence to accept that anyone trans is getting abuse from people online, but don't expect me to proactively look for that poo poo online so I'll understand any thread incidents if they happen. If there is something off-site that's happened that's related to drama in the thread, say so (and if you link to it, 'content warning' it, so people can decide whether to look).
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Mar 20, 2021 12:42
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why the gently caress are you quoting me with this post that is about vit p. Am I coming off as someone defending him? Especially considering I was one of the people telling him to gently caress off during the GIC thing? Or is this part of this loving 11d chess offsite bullshit I'm supposed to be privy to?
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Mar 20, 2021 13:00
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I'm replying to the two points in the post I quoted.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:17
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Bobby Deluxe posted:I'm replying to the two points in the post I quoted. so you actually loving think it was wrong me for my to ask learnincurve to not loving call me a cishet when I'm bisexual? I suppose you think it's all well and proper to accuse bisexuals of being het since they pass anyway right so gently caress them? Solidarity for me but not for thee poo poo, the reality is she loving did invalidate my identity, didn't stop doing it and will probably do it again but hey who gives a gently caress about those drat bisexuals. I never blamed rumda for bringing up things that make her angry relating her identity, I just don't want to get into arguments about things I wasn't loving aware of happening and I don't know about. At no point did I loving agree with or defend vit p, when I said nobody was defending transphobia I guess I shouldve specified that but still, gently caress you.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:21
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That's assuming a LOT that wasn't in my post.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:24
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Bobby Deluxe posted:That's assuming a LOT that wasn't in my post. you loving assumed plenty that wasn't in any of my posts you loving oval office, how about you in good faith address some of the poo poo i said? Or is good faith only for when it suits you?
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Mar 20, 2021 13:24
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I tell you what, flags are insanely sexy. Let he who has never hosed a flag throw the first stone
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Mar 20, 2021 13:26
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ItohRespectArmy posted:you loving assumed plenty that wasn't in any of my posts you loving oval office, how about you in good faith address some of the poo poo i said? Or is good faith only for when it suits you? It is possible for people to quote your post and then use that as a route to expand onto things they wanted to say more generally.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:28
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OwlFancier posted:It is possible for people to quote your post and then use that as a route to expand onto things they wanted to say more generally. gently caress off you tedious oval office, they knew what they were doing.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:28
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What the gently caress did you just loving say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the
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Mar 20, 2021 13:32
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Who was that poster who wanted to fight in the car park behind ASDA.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:35
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In other "check the background" news: https://twitter.com/PaulWilliamsLAB/status/1372991466239299588?s=19
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Mar 20, 2021 13:37
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Christ this thread is boring today!
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Mar 20, 2021 13:37
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sebzilla posted:In other "check the background" news: Good if true
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Mar 20, 2021 13:38
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OwlFancier posted:It is possible for people to quote your post and then use that as a route to expand onto things they wanted to say more generally. For what it's worth that's how read it also for what it's worth here is the post mentioning the "cishets". learnincurve posted:He’s right about this thread’s treatment of our girl Rumda, I mean I might be blind to microaggressions, myself being a cishet and all, but it doesn't read to me as describing the population of this thread as "cishets" only. Bi erasure sucks though
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Mar 20, 2021 13:39
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maybe everyone has been stuck in this thread going in circles for too long but to “outsiders” this hostile behaviour towards her for going against what the cishets have decided is or isn’t transphobia, and what trans rights should be, is pretty chuffing weird.
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Alright. Looking back at the post in context, the post you quoted and replied to was by LC about Rumda, and her getting attacked for being confrontational about transphobia in the thread. I was using your statement that you found it 'tiring' as a jumping off point to continue that thread, but I guess rereading it carefully, it was the assumption that the thread was cishet that you found tiring and not the discussion about tranphobia, so I apologise for that innaccuracy. My first thought when wanting to reply was that if people are feeling tired or upset by Rumda pointing out transphobia, we are probably experiencing less than a tenth of the existential exhaustion trans people go through every day just trying to exist and go about their lives on this hell island. Maybe I didn't make that distinction clear enough, maybe I shouldn't have scan read your post and replied to my initial reading of it. But I really don't know why you're reading it as an attack on you and maybe you can clarify the points in my post where I attacked you, because I am genuinely confused and want to know how I gave that impression.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:39
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nurmie posted:I mean I might be blind to microaggressions, myself being a cishet and all, but it doesn't read to me as describing the population of this thread as "cishets" only. Bi erasure sucks though I did read it that way but I am used to it so I suppose it doesn't bother me very much. Plus I know for a fact I'm never going to get LC to change how she expresses things even if it did.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:45
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nurmie posted:For what it's worth that's how read it I never said that (what he thinks), I said over several pages that it’s the cishets in this thread that need to step back and check if they listen to trans people enough. Believe women. If that guy going off thinks it applies to him, when he’s not cishet, then that says way way more about him that it does me.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:45
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Mar 20, 2021 13:46
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Alright. Looking back at the post in context, the post you quoted and replied to was by LC about Rumda, and her getting attacked for being confrontational about transphobia in the thread. Initially when you qouted my in that post I was confused as to why you took me qouting saying I would not like to be referred to as cishet as somehow attacking rumda for calling out transphobia and then the rest of the post was about vitamin p, so I made the post slightly annoyed asking why you bothered quoting me in that post to which you replied that you were specificially replying to those points at that I got extremely angry and was under the assumption you thought I was either defending vitamin p or was of a similar ilk and got extremely angry, since I very quickly due to my many undiagnosed mental illnesses can go from slightly annoyed to psychotically angry I ended up lashing out probably to an extreme degree than most people would but it was probably to an extent bottling up the anger I had in general. I think generally this whole thing was probably a big misunderstanding on all sides and I'm sorry for *gestures vaguely towards thread* nurmie posted:For what it's worth that's how read it i (still) don't understand what learnincurve was reffering to so I was under the impression she was referring to the NIP chat earlier and was accusing anyone taking part as a cishet but I did probably jump to conclusions on it, I once again am extremely mentally ill.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:46
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it's kinda a confusing post, "he's right" in that context seems to refer to vitamin p but the rest of the post is the exact opposite of what vitamin p thinks so I didn't know how to read it anyway perhaps it is best to just talk about crisps again for a bit
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Mar 20, 2021 13:51
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thinking about scampi niknaks, I remembered that I actually like all the niknak flavours
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Mar 20, 2021 13:52
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E: scampi niknaks are extremely my poo poo, as are rib & saucy. Nice n Spicy are the tragic consolation prize in those multipacks. ItohRespectArmy posted:Initially when you qouted my in that post I was confused as to why you took me qouting saying I would not like to be referred to as cishet as somehow attacking rumda for calling out transphobia and then the rest of the post was about vitamin p, so I made the post slightly annoyed asking why you bothered quoting me in that post to which you replied that you were specificially replying to those points at that I got extremely angry and was under the assumption you thought I was either defending vitamin p or was of a similar ilk and got extremely angry, since I very quickly due to my many undiagnosed mental illnesses can go from slightly annoyed to psychotically angry I ended up lashing out probably to an extreme degree than most people would but it was probably to an extent bottling up the anger I had in general. I didn't think you were defending VitP, but I do have a habit of using 'you' rhetorically in posts and it's bitten me in the rear end before.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:54
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yeah it does seem to me like a great big misunderstanding to be honest. Being angry is completely valid though. however, for what it's worth, I honestly think that 99% of this thread generally engages in good faith, which is worth considering (might be hard when everything sucks as much rear end as it currently does of course) again, fwiw i might not be reading stuff correctly as well - tripping balls on a shot of Astra Zeneca and 35 hours without sleep here lol
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Mar 20, 2021 13:54
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I wasn’t targeting anyone directly - way back when this drama started I initially begged people who were not-LGBT+ to remember that this is a deeply complicated issue which revolves around horrific evil people trying to strip trans men and women of basic human rights, and when non-trans people start giving opinions on what is or isn’t transphobic then they deny the trans community the free agency to name their own oppressors.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:55
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The nice n spicy ones do get a little dull after a while though. I would judge the person who buys the multipacks of just those.
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Mar 20, 2021 13:56
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Bobby Deluxe posted:That's fair, everyone's going through their own stuff, and the internet / text is a medium that is very prone to misinterpretation. I'll go edit bolding into my post to make it clearer to anyone else what I was doing if it helps. i'm not good at reading at the best of times tbh, all of this probably hasn't been helped with my ear ache turning into tinnitus for the past 2 days which I do not recommend to anyone!
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Mar 20, 2021 13:56
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