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Bud Manstrong posted:Hello. We’re thinking about buying a 2018 Leaf. We drove one the other night and enjoyed it. It seems to be perfect for our use case, which is a 13 mile (round-trip) commute every day and around-town Stuff. We’ve got another car for road trips and non Leaf-appropriate things. We’d be charging it off a 120V outlet for the time being, but we’d run a 240V line to the garage, and there are several Level 2 chargers within a mile of our house. I’ve read a bit about it, but I’m wondering if there’s a good Idiot’s Guide somewhere for this car and/or any quality of life issues I might not know about unless I’d owned one for a while. Any reason we shouldn’t go ahead (or red flags to look for) on a 2018 Leaf with 18k miles and a clean Carfax? What climate has it been in, and what climate are you in? The leaf has very poor to nonexistent battery cooling, so if it's very hot the battery will degrade at an accelerated rate. The leaf has a decent (7 year IIRC) battery warranty, so you should be good with a 2018 one for several more years, but it's something to keep an eye on.
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Mar 19, 2021 09:35
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Nfcknblvbl posted:It mostly depends on how clean the energy is where the car's parts are produced and charged up on a daily basis. Those are two things which may be awful now depending on where the car's from, and where the owner lives, but I can't imagine it staying that way with renewable energy getting cheaper as time goes on. See this is weird because like Charles was saying, studies suggest plug in hybrids are a LOT worse than manufacturer's figures suggest (who saw that one coming?!) https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2020_09_UK_briefing_The_plug-in_hybrid_con.pdf quote:This briefing paper presents new evidence on the shocking real world CO2 emissions of plug-in hybrid Maybe that Rav4 is actually good but it seems others really aren't! Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 11:19
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Yeah some are bad. Also depends very much on the expectations of the driver. Like in winter, don't expect heat without the engine being turned on.
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Mar 19, 2021 11:28
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Olympic Mathlete posted:See this is weird because like Charles was saying, studies suggest plug in hybrids are a LOT worse than manufacturer's figures suggest (who saw that one coming?!) That article, or at least this quote, is only talking about the energy consumption during operation. What most manufacturers are saying through is that by covering only 80% of usage with electric range, they don't have to put in an enormous 100kwh battery which is expensive and energy intensive to make. This is what the EE video is talking about. Total emissions are pretty much the same by 135k miles and only a bit more in Teslas favor by 200k so the RAV4 might be an easy choice if it's any cheaper as well.
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Mar 19, 2021 11:51
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The energy consumption during oil extraction and refining is conveniently skipped over, then?
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Mar 19, 2021 13:05
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Usually they do include well to tank emissions as well in that sort of analysis but I don't think he mentioned that in the video explicitly
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Mar 19, 2021 16:52
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pun pundit posted:What climate has it been in, and what climate are you in? The leaf has very poor to nonexistent battery cooling, so if it's very hot the battery will degrade at an accelerated rate. The leaf has a decent (7 year IIRC) battery warranty, so you should be good with a 2018 one for several more years, but it's something to keep an eye on. We’re in Colorado. It gets hot in the summers, but not terribly so. The car would live in a garage at home and at my wife’s work, so hopefully that’d help as well. Thanks for the heads up, though, I’ll look into the battery warranty.
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Mar 19, 2021 17:02
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mobby_6kl posted:Usually they do include well to tank emissions as well in that sort of analysis but I don't think he mentioned that in the video explicitly He mentions it halfway through but his other numbers he guesses a lot and his end result relies on Toyota not bullshitting about the full EV mode claims like every other PHEV manufacturer seems to. Pinch of salt with that one I think.
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Mar 19, 2021 17:03
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I've noticed with my Ioniq PHEV that it frequently has the engine on to charge the battery while it's in EV drive mode, so the motor is moving the care but the engine is on. But I think that's mostly to generate heat in the winter, it stops doing that when the cabin gets warm. Honestly my main thought about PHEVs after driving one for a bit is that I wish it had a bigger battery and a smaller gas tank. The gas tank ideally would just be a backup or for long trips - doesn't matter if I have to stop to fill it up more because that's quick compared to charging.
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Mar 19, 2021 17:14
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Bud Manstrong posted:Hello. We’re thinking about buying a 2018 Leaf. We drove one the other night and enjoyed it. It seems to be perfect for our use case, which is a 13 mile (round-trip) commute every day and around-town Stuff. We’ve got another car for road trips and non Leaf-appropriate things. We’d be charging it off a 120V outlet for the time being, but we’d run a 240V line to the garage, and there are several Level 2 chargers within a mile of our house. I’ve read a bit about it, but I’m wondering if there’s a good Idiot’s Guide somewhere for this car and/or any quality of life issues I might not know about unless I’d owned one for a while. Any reason we shouldn’t go ahead (or red flags to look for) on a 2018 Leaf with 18k miles and a clean Carfax? Get yourself a cheap bluetooth OBD2 reader that's compatible with leaf spy http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/wiki/leaf-spy-pro/ then you can get a bunch of useful data about the battery pack that should give you a better idea of its overall health
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Mar 19, 2021 17:27
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Trabisnikof posted:Get yourself a cheap bluetooth OBD2 reader that's compatible with leaf spy Good shout, thanks. Looks like the battery warranty is that it won’t go below 9 bars in 8y/100k miles, so that’s pretty encouraging. Still, more numbers = better.
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Mar 19, 2021 18:16
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Car makers wont care, there's more Blue states than red with far more people in them. There's more than enough states working on policies to make what Texas thinks a moot point This isn't correct. There are only 15 states where democrats have control of both the Governorship and legislatures and those states represent less than half of the total US population. States that opt-in to the California CARB board regulations represent something like 1/3rd of the US population. Texas and Florida, both extremely dumb states, have 50 million people between them. In any case, almost none of the gasoline bans are even being attempted legislatively. Washington has a bill in the house that will most definitely fail, but the other states that are signaling that they will follow suit are essentially just making policy statements that none of the people making those statements will actually have to follow through on. California's "ban" was done by executive order and lacks any detail and enforcement, essentially left as an exercise to the reader (in this case the California Air Resource Boards). CARB can (at the moment, subject to change under the next republican presidential administration) set whatever standards they choose, but they can't allocate funds so ultimately legislation will have to be passed to allocate money to subsidize the investment required to make the policy workable. CARB passed a mandate way back in 1990 requiring 10% of vehicles sold in the state to be Zero Emissions Vehicles by 2003. You will not be surprised to learn that they did not hit that target and still have not hit that target, though they're getting very close. The mandate did not include any funding to drive research and adoption, the idea being that merely by leveraging California's buying power they could force auto manufacturers to move. That didn't work. The program ultimately had to phase in intermediate steps allowing things like PZEVs and Hybrids to count and rejigger the target numbers. It's actually been a very successful program because it has driven improvement in emissions and those benefits have filtered out to other states, but the timeline has been far longer than anticipated and the lesson is that mandates can only do so much absent aggressive government investment. Even then you can see the failings of the idea that California can drive national standards: Cars like the Kona EV are generally only available in states that opt-in to the California ZEV program. And PZEV models, which are very slightly different versions of existing models with better emissions hardware to meet California PZEV requirements are still mostly only available in states that require them. Where possible manufacturers prefer to make a few hundred extra dollars selling cars with worse emissions characteristics. When the Trump EPA attempted to remove the California exemption and force them onto the same (much laxer) standards as the rest of the country GM join the lawsuit on the side of the Trump EPA. BMW signed a binding agreement with California that they would honor higher standards than the EPA required. Maybe Mary Barra had an epiphany right after Joe Biden was elected and sees the light now, but non-binding statements about plans 15 years in the future are hard to take very seriously. I appreciate that they are making the right noises, but I don't particularly believe them and I don't think their strategy will ultimately end up being any different than BMWs, which will be to invest heavily in EVs while continuing to make gas cars as long as it's profitable to do so.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:06
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Some info from Washington State: 2.8% of registered cars are plug in https://wsdot.wa.gov/publications/fulltext/graynotebook/gray-notebook-Dec20.pdf quote:Washington state is second in the nation in terms of electric vehicle (EV) market share, with more than 28 EVs per 1,000 registered vehicles. Washington state had 63,259 plug-in EV registrations as of December 31, 2020. This is approximately a 19% increase in EV registrations from 53,307 in 2019 and a 188% increase from 21,997 in 2016. The total EV count in Washington includes 45,292 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) and 17,967 plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). Washington has maintained a ratio of approximately two BEVs for every PHEV since 2015 
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Mar 19, 2021 19:42
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While the strategy of "build both ICE and EV vehicles for the foreseeable future" is certainly the same, I am willing to bet that GM's EV-only market share and % of units sold as EVs are going to be higher than BMWs in the near future.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:43
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Bone Crimes posted:Some info from Washington State: Someone out in Garfield is doing the lord's work evangelizing EVs! They made a friend!
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Mar 19, 2021 20:33
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RZA Encryption posted:Someone out in Garfield is doing the lord's work evangelizing EVs! They made a friend! Unless it's one household with 2 cars!!!
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Mar 19, 2021 21:44
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I don't see any public chargers out in Garfield on Plugshare. gently caress that lazy cat
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Mar 19, 2021 22:27
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:While the strategy of "build both ICE and EV vehicles for the foreseeable future" is certainly the same, I am willing to bet that GM's EV-only market share and % of units sold as EVs are going to be higher than BMWs in the near future. Probably on market share, they’ve got a good head start. It will be interesting to see how the iX3 does in China. Releasing their first BEV there before Europe or the US sends some interesting signals, even if it’s partially driven by tariffs.
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Mar 20, 2021 00:59
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Mustache Ride posted:All of this doesn't matter until EV cars get significantly cheaper or a used beater market for them exists. Until that happens, ICE vehicles will be on the road for a long time. Bmw i3s are 10-12k now. I'm trying to buy one as my beater/city runabout but good god I hate car dealers. I know that's not a $2-5k beater territory but we're getting there. My buddy bought his brother who does door dash a used prius for $3k and did a $1500 battery swap, so at least hybrids are getting there.
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Mar 20, 2021 01:54
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Plenty of cheap leafs around too. Not enough range for a primary car for most people but perfect for commuting.
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Mar 20, 2021 02:13
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knox_harrington posted:What are your requirements and budget? How long are you going to keep it for? Personally I would not, but there are not all that many options. Have you considered an Id.4? I have not actually seen a Mach-e or an ID4. I did the thing where I watch an obscene number of youtube videos. The Tesla Y is the only one I actually drove. I found it... not great? The screen is annoying. The regen braking is horrible. The interior is okay, not really ok for the class (aka price). I left the test drive pretty underwhelmed and did the thing where I was like, "but I'm the target demographic... if I don't love it wtf?" Then the more time that has gone by and the more research I have done I'm more and more bought into it. I suspect this might be the Tesla social media machine working it's tentacles into my brain. The only two cars I'm excited by are the Audi Q4 (which may not be here until next year?) and the XC40 Recharge (which I can't seem to find anywhere). The RAV4 Prime is the 'makes most sense'-mobile. Coming from an 11 year old Prius though I'm like gently caress TOYOTA AND gently caress THAT. I've done my time for the planet! gently caress you you least fun most sensible car of all time fuuuuuuuuck you! Why won't you die! Why do you cost me nothing to maintain and keep running?! This is honestly my biggest hangup. I'm not a car person and this car costs me nothing to run and doesn't look ancient to anyone. The Mach-e looks nice and seems ok but I don't think I can do it. I'm not a fake Mustang person. I can buy American and feel proud about the Tesla but not the Ford. I don't get it either. My requirements are a car that goes daily 10 miles in one direction and then the opposite direction and then sometimes maybe 60 miles north or south if I'm feeling frisky and want to jump on the 405. My budget is a mystery because I do everything off of monthly payments and the last time I got a car was 11 years ago. In my mind my ideal 'spend' target is $350 a month. Yeah... that seems good. When I look today at cars it seems like everything costs a ton and $800 a month is normal. I'm having a mid life crises and can't afford the Porshe 911 I actually think would heal the wounds in my soul. This car is new Prius but fun and fast as gently caress and maybe that will make me happy. And if it doesn't at least the sound system is banging (this is probably my #1 thing, bluetooth and a really nice sound system). Sensible Dad me says get a RAV4. Mid life crises me says gently caress you Dad! You can't afford a real performance car buy this dumb rear end future car, if you won't like it NO ONE WILL!
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Mar 21, 2021 06:41
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Base Taycan lease should be around $800, give or take. Do that.
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Mar 21, 2021 06:45
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Shamino posted:Base Taycan lease should be around $800, give or take. Do that. I am seeing the cheapest Taycan lease at $1761 a month with $13,500 down. Do you have a hook up?
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Mar 21, 2021 06:49
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The new Hyundai and Kia might be cool, but they're still at least 6 months away or so. I really liked the one-pedal driving on the Tesla 3 I drove. I don't know which settings were on, the guy already had it that way. I don't think I ever had to touch the brakes and I had no problem modulating the pedal to do exactly what I want. Maybe if you haven't driven stick before? See if you can find a Polestar 2 also, since it sounds like you're in SoCal. It's the XC40 with a sedan-ish body. They'll also deliver one to you for a 30 minute test drive if you're not near a showroom, supposedly.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:11
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particle9 posted:I am seeing the cheapest Taycan lease at $1761 a month with $13,500 down. Do you have a hook up? I ballparked that on 80k MSRP with 65-70% residual and a 7500 tax credit. I did some googling and porsche put 3yr/10k mile year residual at 40%, lol.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:30
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Shamino posted:I ballparked that on 80k MSRP with 65-70% residual and a 7500 tax credit. I did some googling and porsche put 3yr/10k mile year residual at 40%, lol. They aren't wrong!
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Mar 21, 2021 08:14
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Get a cayman then!
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Mar 21, 2021 08:33
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mobby_6kl posted:Get a cayman then! Now we’re talking 😎
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Mar 21, 2021 08:35
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What are the lease deals looking like on the e-tron GT?
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Mar 21, 2021 09:03
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The VW dealership in town has gotten there ID.4 demo vehicle. Drive by yesterday to give it a glance, had no intention of getting in or talking to the salesman though, was sweaty from my run. Looked nice, minimal interior with being to simple. Could not see how big the hatch was because the rear window is like 5% tint, seemed as large as my Leaf. This dealer also does Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes. They've had a few Taycans as well as one of those older
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Mar 21, 2021 13:13
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Phuzun posted:The VW dealership in town has gotten there ID.4 demo vehicle. Drive by yesterday to give it a glance, had no intention of getting in or talking to the salesman though, was sweaty from my run. Looked nice, minimal interior with being to simple. Could not see how big the hatch was because the rear window is like 5% tint, seemed as large as my Leaf. This dealer also does Porsche, Audi, and Mercedes. They've had a few Taycans as well as one of those older The trunk is _quite_ a bit bigger than on the Leaf. By Euro standards the Leaf is something like 420 liter, the ID4 around 543.
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Mar 21, 2021 16:21
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knox_harrington posted:What are the lease deals looking like on the e-tron GT? I don't think numbers have been published yet. It depends on the residual. I would guess they don't lease it (since they don't lease the r8) but I could be wrong
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Mar 21, 2021 17:03
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:I'm a midwestern goon too and can't even count how many times I've heard that exact argument. Like... I couldn't have been the only one raised in a family that took long breaks to refuel both car and body on vacation right? Yeah my dad did that and we hated him for it once we all became adults and realized the drives he took two days to do could easily be done in one day as long as you didn’t stop at Shoney’s for sit down meals twice a day. Stopping for five minutes to take a leak and stretch your legs every 2-3 hours is a great idea for mind and body. Stopping for 25-45 minutes every 2-3 hours is a great way to turn many one day drives into two day drives.
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Mar 21, 2021 17:30
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Teslabjorn does 1000km (600 mile) challenges in EV's where he drives 1000k's as fast as he can. The top EV's (Tesla, Taycan) are at or below 10hrs now. The slower charging/older cars can be hilariously bad, like 15hrs+. 600 miles in a reasonable day of driving is a good effort imo.
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Mar 21, 2021 17:59
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Important to remember that they also charge unevenly.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:21
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bird with big dick posted:Yeah my dad did that and we hated him for it once we all became adults and realized the drives he took two days to do could easily be done in one day as long as you didn’t stop at Shoney’s for sit down meals twice a day. Do not disparage your Dad if he took you to Shoney's.  Breakfast bar, mmmmmm.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:41
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I did the ID4 demo experience today.  Drove over in the E-tron and the staff were very interested in how it compared. I think the iD4 may actually be a legitimate threat to Tesla model 3\Y it you absolutely don't need 300+ miles. It rides a bit stiff, even compared to the model Y.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:41
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Yeah I think it's going to reach a lot of people who aren't interested in a car that is too different from what they're used to.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:56
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GG that interior would get sooooo trashed so fast unless you kept your hands clean.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:18
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nope
FlapYoJacks fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 6, 2022 |
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Mar 21, 2021 23:28
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