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Hihohe posted:She wants to run the world like a coder runs a program. With an ever-increasing existential dread that everything's going to come crashing down in hellfire, proportional to the size of the codebase?
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Mar 19, 2021 21:06
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I picked up Endzone because I can't spend my stimulus on a new videocard so let's buy a bunch of games!!! Seems pretty neat so far but still in the tutorial. I'm not expecting anything amazing but for $15 I think I can get some fun out of it.
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Mar 19, 2021 21:12
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Zurai posted:With an ever-increasing existential dread that everything's going to come crashing down in hellfire, proportional to the size of the codebase? More like an expectation that your criminal organization has now become more of an existential slog, and you dread going back to older parts to do anything with them but sometimes you have to. Which sounds pretty much like a lot of management games.
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Mar 19, 2021 22:30
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Theres a part two to that last video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWZW220PK5o I learned that minions now have a wage and of course that wage increases with upgrades to thier class. Theres no Yellow alert anymore just a Red alert. Some minions like the guard don't need a person to train them. you can just train them from nothing as long as you have the proper furniture. edit: oh but minions train faster if another minion teaches them thats neat. GUARD POSTS. Finally i can put little points in my base where guards will just stand and keep the peace. Hihohe fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 20, 2021 |
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Mar 20, 2021 01:14
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Looking at eg 2 one thing I am dissapointed by is that the different masterminds seem to have the exact same dialogue, at least going through the tutorial.
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Mar 20, 2021 08:56
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drat EG2 really is looking good, definitely earmarking that for when it comes down a little in price.
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Mar 20, 2021 11:34
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This tutorial for Endzone is long as hell and I don't really feel like I'm going to retain any of this because it's just like "build this, now build this, now build this, now build this..." through the whole drat tech tree. 
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Mar 20, 2021 13:41
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explosivo posted:This tutorial for Endzone is long as hell and I don't really feel like I'm going to retain any of this because it's just like "build this, now build this, now build this, now build this..." through the whole drat tech tree. Yeah, it's pretty self explanatory if you just want to jump into sandbox mode. You need a thing, a building makes it. That building requires inputs that might come from another building. Most fancy scrap comes from basic scrap so just get a food source, a water source, and a scrapyard working, and you've got a start.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:32
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The only thing that isn't bog standard base builder is the exploration anyway And if it's anything like early access yet be sure to have like 4 water towers per colonist to survive droughts
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Mar 20, 2021 16:44
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explosivo posted:This tutorial for Endzone is long as hell and I don't really feel like I'm going to retain any of this because it's just like "build this, now build this, now build this, now build this..." through the whole drat tech tree. I had the same problem with the Workers and Resources tutorial, there wasn't much real context.
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Mar 20, 2021 16:54
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Picked up Dyson Sphere Program after all. Wow this game is weird, and wow that VA really should have given some feedback on translation. But it is charming, even if it makes my GPU cry.
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Mar 20, 2021 17:01
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SkyeAuroline posted:Picked up Dyson Sphere Program after all. "the fluid will be devastated."
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Mar 20, 2021 17:51
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Played a bit of Endzone. It wasn't great but definitely "fun enough" to play through the first 5-6 hours but then started to really suck. The are three main problems that really killed it for me: 1) The raiders. Paying off raiders takes an enormous amount of resources and they don't always want only the renewables. The alternative is setting up static towers with a small engagement zone. The raiders will spawn along the map edge and run to your base. Don't have any defense towers in place, then you're screwed. So you basically have to ring your base in defense towers. If you're lucky you'll have some chokepoints you can use to make it bearable, but you've got to cover every possible path from the map edge to your base. And over time they get stronger, to where one tower isn't enough. My current game, which I just put down and inspired this post, I had three towers in range of the raid group that came in and the raiders took them all down with about half health left over. And the entire defense system is micromanagement hell. It's pointless to keep militia employed so you basically have to manually set all towers to 0 workers and when a raid shows up try and guess the path they'll take to your base and manually add workers to those towers, then shift jobs around on your personnel management tab, and do it all in reverse after the raid is over. Also any loot they get before you kill them off they keep, even if you kill off the raid. It's easily the worst raid system I've ever seen in a game like this. 2) You can't tell how many resources you need in terms of food, water, and building repairs. What does a building take to repair it? Presumably some fraction of it's build resources but the game doesn't tell you that. Want to plan for how much food and water you're going to bring in versus going out? Have fun figuring that out because all the game shows you is totals going up and down. You could work out your production if you really wanted to math it out individually based on expected seasonal production sticking to just farms and animals but gently caress that. Especially when you're dealing with totals in the thousands of food and water. 3) The jobs system is not quite as bad as the militia/raider problem, but it's still micromanagement hell. I'm not entirely sure how it works but the basic problem is you'll constantly lose workers (death, or temporarily on expeditions, and maybe sickness?) and I think if you've got an adult in the "Settler" job they'll be instantly replaced but if not they just go poof with no warning and the game goes on. You basically have to live with the jobs menu up so you don't get a bunch of your workers killed or accidentally set on expedition without double-checking your totals (which you can't do from the expedition screen) and suddenly your overstuffed wood industry is gone and you go from 400 wood to 0 in no time flat. And some resources you can chew through super fast, so losing a couple workers and you not catching it instantly can be the difference between surviving and in a crisis. Especially when combined with item #2, it's hard to balance out your population so you can have a backup of settlers (assuming it actually works this way) to maintain the system in a way that's tolerable.
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Mar 21, 2021 03:00
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wait, there's raiders?
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Mar 21, 2021 03:45
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Yeah, they just added them, because the game that was incredibly tight on getting enough food and water to survive the constant droughts needed another regular random threat to have to spend people and resources on. I really think the devs went up their own asses on the game and decided that since their loudest and most dedicated fans were good at the game, it needed more challenge, which was a terribly stupid decision.
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Mar 21, 2021 12:43
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Surviving the aftermath and endzone are both like that and is the big reason I stopped playing both ages ago
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Mar 21, 2021 20:45
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that's a shame, i played it a few updates ago and it seemed like it had dialed in a good level of challenge for 'banished, but post-apocalypse'. easier than banished, even, i would say, but with more stuff to play with.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:20
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Took a look at the Endzone discussions, and this was the first thing I saw.a question posted:How else can you fight the raiders except building the defence tower ? Can you train your citizens to fight as well? Endzone Developer posted:Hey there, So, in this "survive the apocalypse" game, walls aren't a thing because it would make surviving the raiders "too easy". What kind of hosed up stupid game is that?
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Mar 21, 2021 21:41
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Out of the Park 22 has been announced. Anyone gonna pick it up? I'm going to but I wish they'd keep going with their NHL management game (i forget what its called) too. It'd be nice to have updated NHL rosters but hey OOTP 22 will be exciting!
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Mar 21, 2021 21:47
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The thing that bugs me about those post-apoc games is that they went to the fallout school of rebuilding society. Why does everything you build look like it was nailed together from scrapwood and tarps? Why doesn't anybody clean up around here?
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Mar 21, 2021 22:18
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Kvlt! posted:Out of the Park 22 has been announced. Anyone gonna pick it up? I'm going to but I wish they'd keep going with their NHL management game (i forget what its called) too. It'd be nice to have updated NHL rosters but hey OOTP 22 will be exciting! I will absolutely buy it at its first 50% off sale, which usually doesn't take too long. I hardly ever play em but I keep buying em. One day I'll bite into it and live the Moneyball dream.
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Mar 21, 2021 22:19
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HopperUK posted:I will absolutely buy it at its first 50% off sale, which usually doesn't take too long. I hardly ever play em but I keep buying em. One day I'll bite into it and live the Moneyball dream. Im gonna snag it day 1 bc I have too much free time on my hands. Ive never played the baseball one but the hockey one was a blast so im excited for OOTP.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:01
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I refunded Endzone, I just couldn't get into it. If I hadn't just picked up Ostriv (which I also haven't gone back to after my last colony implosion) to fill that survival town builder role I might've given it another chance but eh.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:11
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Away all Goats posted:The thing that bugs me about those post-apoc games is that they went to the fallout school of rebuilding society. Why does everything you build look like it was nailed together from scrapwood and tarps? Why doesn't anybody clean up around here? Welcome to selling an aesthetic. "it's what people expect, so it's what I deliver, so it's what people expect..." Stop chasing aesthetic, start following themes and letting the look follow from what those themes imply. I know you aren't the dev, just... thoughts that really need to be considered. At least FO1/2 didn't fall into that trap. NV gets an iffy, unhappy handwave because 18 months with a new and unfamiliar engine, you'd be mental not to recycle assets and it wouldn't be done in time. Doesn't excuse everything of course. And then everything East Coast... yeah.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:13
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SkyeAuroline posted:Welcome to selling an aesthetic. "it's what people expect, so it's what I deliver, so it's what people expect..." Like I can understand the initial stuff being thrown together and looking like that. It just irritates me that the aesthetic never changes as you get to later tier stuff in these games.
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Mar 21, 2021 23:22
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Someone give me a high level comparison between ootp and football manager
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Mar 21, 2021 23:37
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Azhais posted:Someone give me a high level comparison between ootp and football manager At a high level they're the same. Edit: when I compared them like five years ago I'd say OOTP had the slider turned further from "polished" and closer to "spreadsheets". PerniciousKnid fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 01:34
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Alkydere posted:Like I can understand the initial stuff being thrown together and looking like that. It just irritates me that the aesthetic never changes as you get to later tier stuff in these games. That's pretty much why the two post apocalypse city builders suck, there's no progression. Your city starts out as some group of survivors and when you have a hundred people it's still run the same as when it was that original 7 or whatever. Your buildings are ramshackle shacks and never stop being shacks even when you have enough production that you should be able to make better stuff. Any interaction with the outside world consists of exploring, scavenging, and random events with no real context. At best you beat up a bunch of random bandits who are bandits for the hell of it. Like no group sitting in an old metal refinery will start selling metal, they always exist to be shood off. No societal development, no changes to your way of living from economic development, no way to exercise power outside your city in any real way, just yokels doing radioactive dirt farming forever.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:45
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I would love to see a game where the progression is a shift from scavenged, old tech to sustainable and expandable stuff, even if it's lower-tech.
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Mar 22, 2021 02:25
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So I tried out Rogue State Revolution, and I don't know. The actual mechanics seems pretty good - invest in buildings and infrastructure in your state to try and grow your income and support your growing, bettering population while also trying to survive against insurrections and keep the mood of the people generally happy - but I haven't found fun in it yet: * The economy feels very tight and every move to expand it turns out to need a bunch of support from power and roads and so I can't actually use any of the profits to make anything better because they're all going right back into the infrastructure? * My population is constantly unhappy, and all of my policy options are literally "make this part of your population happy while you make this part of your population unhappy" and so there never feels like there's any chance to actually do anything that makes things better except for the few options that cost money every turn, and I don't have money every turn because of the aforementioned constant need to expand the economy for the needs of the expanding economy. I guess that's literally one of my biggest complaints about it so far, there's never anything good that can be done, it's always something good for a price and so I never feel like there's any actual progress going on. * Because each policy is a trade-off, there doesn't seem to be a reason to change policies that much, and the game keeps hitting me with "YOU SHOULD BE SPENDING YOUR ACTIONS" but I just really don't have anything to do with those actions because I don't have money and there's no point to just switching policies so that I just switch which of two groups hate me. * I'm really not comfortable with the whole "your country has a subjugated minority with no real rights, and any attempt to make things better for them will immediately lead to protests and riots" part of the game. * I think the goal is for me to just lose because I can't win, and when I lose, I get to restart with better stuff because that's what a rogue-like is supposed to be? And that's the only explanation for why the game just seems like there's no progress, you just see how long you can fail for. But I haven't gotten to the end of a rulership yet because I don't want to play through watching everything fall apart, how is that fun? Has anyone gotten to the "restart" point, and is it actually a roguelike or is it just a weird contrivance for why you can play multiple games? I don't know. I want to like it - Hidden Agenda was one of my favorite games as a kid, and I love most city builders (which is really what this falls into) - but it just seems depressing to play.
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Mar 22, 2021 02:45
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OOTP is a fantastic franchise, and I have spent way, way too many hours playing it. I haven't played Football Manager much, but I found OOTP actually EASIER to learn - if only because it's pretty easy to auto-run and let the AI handle as much of the game as you want and gradually increase your manual control. If anyone wants to get into it for the first time or needs help, don't be afraid to shoot a PM, I'd be glad to help out over discord. A goon OOTP league has also been a fantasy of mine for a bit (I know they've been done in forms in the past).
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Mar 22, 2021 03:05
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Who the gently caress designed the Project Six mystery in Surviving Mars? That dumbfuck ought to be loving fired for designing a threat that repeatedly targets your important poo poo with literally no way to counter suicide attacks on your external buildings and having to rely on extremely spotty worker AI to stop in-dome attacks. What the gently caress, are you loving kidding me?
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Mar 22, 2021 09:40
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skeleton warrior posted:* My population is constantly unhappy, and all of my policy options are literally "make this part of your population happy while you make this part of your population unhappy" and so there never feels like there's any chance to actually do anything that makes things better except for the few options that cost money every turn, and I don't have money every turn because of the aforementioned constant need to expand the economy for the needs of the expanding economy. I guess that's literally one of my biggest complaints about it so far, there's never anything good that can be done, it's always something good for a price and so I never feel like there's any actual progress going on. One thing that helped me with this is that you can find out the demographics of voters per region, then apply localised policies or constructions for those regions. For instance one of my regions has an extremely large liberal demographic, so I apply all the solar power plants and such there because it wins their votes. Another region meanwhile is extremely religious and conservative, so i've applied all the religious centers and police based constructions there.
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Mar 22, 2021 10:33
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skeleton warrior posted:So I tried out Rogue State Revolution, and I don't know. Policies are trade-offs as such, but you need to consider all your policies as a whole instead of weighing one up against the other. This means that early on there's not much room to improve things in the policy department, you need to research more policies in several different departments in order to improve conditions for the country as a whole. You still need to balance things, but more unlocked policies means more room for adjustments, and quite a lot of policies you can research are all positives and no drawback (apart from sometimes costing money). Some also have big benefits in several areas and only minor drawbacks in one or two, granting a big net positive. The minorities issue needs to be sorted, but right after a civil war/coup is probably not the best time to tackle it. Once you improve things in the country, you have more room for making political decisions that are unpopular amongst the majority. The game "winnable", but there is an element of luck to it since it's really hard to get the economy up and running without exports, and in some games what your neighbors will buy and sell can be really hard to work with early on. As for being a roguelike, the only way I can see it being one is that your save is deleted when you fail and you can't save and reload the game at will (weird temporal tech notwithstanding, in a limited way). I enjoy the game, but I hope they address the death spiral caused by worker shortages later in the game. Even with nearly all the immigration unlocks it's almost impossible to keep the county running. Another really annoying part is that if you have labor shortages in one region, sometimes people will move from another region to fill in the openings, but then you get shortages in that region instead since people moved from a region with 0 available laborers instead of the region with 5 available ones. And then people move away from the region they just moved to for work back to where they came from, etc etc. It's impossible to adjust production based on where you have available labor because it keeps shifting every single turn so long as there's at least one region with a shortage, and it's really aggravating. And then my ministers keep insisting I build hotels even though there's no available labor anywhere and get pissy if I demolish the buildings they asked for previously to free up the labor for said hotel. In short, I like the game, but the constant labor shortage of the mid-late game and constant fluctuation of which regions have a shortage is really unfun. AG3 fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 11:03
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I just 'beat' Hammerting and overall it is a pretty fun game with a good loop. I know it's still EA so I'm really looking forward to seeing what gets added on to it to make the game require a little more thought on my part. The loop of dig deep > mine ore > craft better tools with better ore > dig deeper interspersed with missions from the overworld is fun, but I never felt like I was in any danger or had any urgency, running the game at the fastest setting the entire time and never even noticing when I was being attacked because everything died extremely quickly. The only time I lost a dwarf was when the pathing got him stuck in some lava and I never really noticed or knew how to get him out of there (later on when it happened again another dwarf eventually decided to try to rescue the body but there was no manual way to make it happen?) I'm looking forward to seeing updates and additions as they come out! I had 31 dwarfs when I hit the win condition. I focused on digging down and not sideways really, so I probably could have found more statues if I spent time going to the sides. Might give that a go in the post game just to see what's up.
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Mar 22, 2021 13:52
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Intentionally not using the DSP thread because I'm going in pretty much blind on the first run. I know there's interplanetary logistics. Is there an equivalent to Factorio personal logistics? Getting a tiny bit annoying restocking materials, doing so on an interplanetary basis is going to get even more complicated.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:04
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There's no personal logistics tech in DSP. The easiest solution to restock yourself is just use logistics towers (or spaghetti belts) to make a one-stop "mall" for yourself that stores your commonly needed items in storage crates.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:09
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Pretty much the approach I was going to end up with. I did manage to get interplanetary... solely for the purposes of setting up a silicon mine (and now titanium, whenever I decide to go back). Transportation is a pain. Hopefully get the logistics towers soon.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:12
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To be clear the goal for a supply mall is to start with crates, but eventually to not use crates and instead use towers once you have them. From anywhere on the planet, you can access the inventory of any tower. It's kind of an extra manual step but similar in use to Factorio personal logistics. To really optimize your clicks, set your tower limits = 2x how much you want to grab in one go. Then you can single right click and get a stack exactly as big as you want it.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:21
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| # ? Jun 10, 2024 17:35 |
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zedprime posted:To be clear the goal for a supply mall is to start with crates, but eventually to not use crates and instead use towers once you have them. From anywhere on the planet, you can access the inventory of any tower. It's kind of an extra manual step but similar in use to Factorio personal logistics.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:31
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