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The change I'd like to see made to Wills is combining Trust and Enrich into a 2-for-1 deal, and randomizing the Enrich bonus. They're both underpowered compared to anything else, and even combined they're not overwhelmingly appealing. Randomizing Enrich would nerf it, but it's degenerate so long as Fourth Strike is an option you can pick, rather than a jackpot you can hope for.
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Mar 22, 2021 14:37
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Abyssal Squid posted:The change I'd like to see made to Wills is combining Trust and Enrich into a 2-for-1 deal, and randomizing the Enrich bonus. Even if they just previewed what Trust was going to give. Flippers are fine but that was a high price. Better at home/worse away is somewhere between "exists" and "actively bad". e; I do find it hysterical that Headliners ended up being REVERSE idol order. That was a massive bullet dodged for Mills. Nephzinho fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 15:04
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I don't see an issue with just going "champagne and cheese are a bad combo, if you use a flute you don't get to cast Will votes for the remainder of the season" or something along those lines. Wills get to go back to being the chance for smaller teams to actually achieve something come election time, and people are prevented from fluting in, casting self-destructive Will votes, and fluting back out again. Problem solved.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:27
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I like the blind box aspect of Trust but yeah it could stand to have a little more transparency. "This season's Trust benefit only affects batters/pitchers" would be a really helpful bit of information while still leaving a lot of suspense. I just want to see more modifiers that add variance to the game without increasing the power level. 
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Mar 22, 2021 15:32
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I'm trying to think of a situation where you'd want to call in an Alternate a player for any purpose other than to gently caress with a team, since there's so many other better options to deal with a bad player. Like maybe if you're reluctant to steal from another team, have completely strip mined your shadows, and your target player is so bad that an Infuse wouldn't do enough, and also don't want to Revoke them for some reason. Freshly rerolled characters are hideously bad on average. I'm not sure if anyone has used Alternate yet, despite there having been like 150 Wills executed so far. Nephzinho posted:Even if they just previewed what Trust was going to give. Flippers are fine but that was a high price. Better at home/worse away is somewhere between "exists" and "actively bad". There's definitely pitchers that have Flippers which is hilarious. Lone Goat fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 15:35
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Lone Goat posted:I'm trying to think of a situation where you'd want to call in an Alternate a player for any purpose other than to gently caress with a team, since there's so many other better options to deal with a bad player. There's been one alternate used. The use case is if you want to keep a character for lore reasons but their fk stats are unsalvageable. The one time it was used cory 12 somehow went from one of the worst pitchers to possibly the best ever naturally rolled pitcher. Then accidentally got traded away.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:46
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So the official line is the fanbase was to dumb to vote their own interest? https://twitter.com/hifridays/status/1373849636465610755
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Mar 22, 2021 15:47
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Ches Neckbeard posted:So the official line is the fanbase was to dumb to vote their own interest? Same twitter put out a post saying only put 5% of the votes into the Wills they wanted (but that could just mean for off-discord folks, and on-discord people were more organized) https://twitter.com/hifridays/status/1373111296447635457 But like I said earlier this is just going to force teams to overload on Wills if they don't want to get hosed, leaving more Blessings for larger teams.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:03
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those accounts aren't "official" accounts and i think you're just projecting a little bit as well the way to think about it is that the game is set up so that weird/bad votes have a chance at winning, and the fact that those votes win out doesn't mean that the entire team's fanbase wanted that specific result to happen especially because thinking that way has led to people being real poo poo to others after recent elections
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Mar 22, 2021 16:05
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flatluigi posted:those accounts aren't "official" accounts and i think you're just projecting a little bit as well It still extremely sucks that sabotaging other teams looks like a legit strategy. I get not optimized stuff happens which is a stated part of the game but spy games is lame.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:12
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Ches Neckbeard posted:It still extremely sucks that sabotaging other teams looks like a legit strategy. I get not optimized stuff happens which is a stated part of the game but spy games is lame. 
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Mar 22, 2021 16:23
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At its heart I think blaseball is a game about how "fairness of opportunity" doesn't actually provide fairness and that we should seek fairness of outcome. It's a simulator of unfair systems that masquerade as fair ones. But it's tough to balance that with the game being enjoyable, out in the open where you can only really make those changes retroactively. And I think definitely priority number 1 is making sure that it is obvious that the systems themselves are at fault, rather than other players. I think wills went 90% of the way there - I'm already seeing more teams trying to get messages out to random people on social media playing the game. However, the game has definitely exploded in popularity since season 12 and I think more safeguards need to be built into the game itself because for a long time TGB have sort of left that hanging and just been leaning on the community to self-manage but that's not really gonna cut it any more with it becoming increasingly large and decentralised. Those mechanical safeguards need to be in there, even if they're really just there to reassure people that TGB isn't out to betray their trust/emotional investment.
Macdoo fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 16:24
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i think the part where i disagree on is calling it "sabotage" as if it was an organized and concerted attempt instead of one or two people possibly swapping teams and voting badly. it's the difference between wishing that one dude could get hosed and thinking an entire team's fanbase is corrupt and deserves to be punished locking wills voting if you've fluted that season should at least make people think about it differently even if it doesn't do anything in practice
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Mar 22, 2021 16:26
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I’m gonna say, based on those percentages, the Friday’s are not putting anywhere near enough into Wills. At tacos discord we have only windied one will in the three seasons because we put 30-40% into wills each election. Yes, you lessen your chances at blessings but the wills are usually more important anyway.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:33
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I mean, for someone who supports, for example, the Crabs, what's stopping them from just staying with the Fridays (or whoever) and sabotage them at the end of the season? The only thing they can't do is contribute to stadium renovations, from what I can see...
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Mar 22, 2021 16:33
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Who is advocating punishing an entire fanbase? Some people operating in bad faith can screw an entire fanbase right now. That's punishing.Average Lettuce posted:I mean, for someone who supports, for example, the Crabs, what's stopping them from just staying with the Fridays (or whoever) and sabotage them at the end of the season? The only thing they can't do is contribute to stadium renovations, from what I can see... The fridays at least officially have a decent sized fanbase. The Georgia's or other smaller ones can easily become farm teams for the larger ones. Ches Neckbeard fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 16:33
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Lone Goat posted:Same twitter put out a post saying only put 5% of the votes into the Wills they wanted (but that could just mean for off-discord folks, and on-discord people were more organized) Yeah, the Mills' voting guide has somewhere between 20-30% of all votes recommended to go to each of our 2 selected Wills. Post-siesta we are currently 6 for 6 on them getting called (even if they weren't always the best choices), but we have also only won a single blessing.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:21
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Preventing this sort of thing at a systems level is basically impossible. If someone wants to sabotage another team, whether on a wide scale level or as individual, it's incredibly easy. Like I could easily just make a new email, create an account, pick a small market team to gently caress with, build my passive economy over a season or two and then dump thousands of votes to Exchange Simba for the Dale's best pitcher every election. Even if TGB somehow launched an investigation wondering why two accounts share an IP on different teams you just make up the lie "my boyfriend likes the Dale and thinks Simba is cute and wants them on his team." and nothing can be done about it. You can't even say "this looks fishy we should remove it" because TGB doesn't know what someone's intentions are. MTs discord has an Ortiz Morse superfan, and if Morse wasn't safely locked in the Garage's shadows this dude would likely dump his entire bankroll trying to get him back every single week. Morse was basically the opposite of PDP, a wretched pitcher completely incapable of the throwing a strike, but this one fan loves an underdog. TGB has no way of enforcing "fair play" over the systems in game so they're forced to condone it. Small fan base teams are forced to spend more votes on wimdy insurance which means fewer chances at blessing and some blessings are completely busted and can make or break a team like 0 No blood, High Pressure, The Rack, etc. This gets compounded further because Free Will forces those teams that are behind to spread their votes THREE ways leaving even more opportunities for catastrophe. Probably the simplest way to fix Wills is to make them like decrees where the highest vote getter gets enacted rather than a raffle, which makes them much harder to screw up with a drive by plan (though still a little vulnerable to a concentrated effort).
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Mar 22, 2021 17:23
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How can smaller fanbases overcome teams with 4 times their fanbase trying to screw them using this method? Going by the discord numbers which yeah I know but there's multiple teams with that level of disparity. The Tacos could switch 500 people double the Core voting base and it's not even wimdy with little risk to themselves.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:44
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how exactly do you expect a large team to organize several hundred people to gently caress over a different team without anyone else being aware of it
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Mar 22, 2021 17:48
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At present why would that matter if the other team knew? Their fambase doubled at best its 50/50
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Mar 22, 2021 17:50
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i'm talking about the rest of the fanbase and TGB hearing about it
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Mar 22, 2021 17:55
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At present the devs don't seem to mind. The wider fanbase should they decide to do something could create a problem for the devs of they decide to do something which isn't a guarantee for either group.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:59
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That's a problem with fluting (and has probably happened with Blessings already), not with Wills. Wills already kick rear end for small teams. It's a lot of fun watching the larger teams get greedy for Blessings (which we weren't going to get with or without Wills) and their greed biting them in the rear end in Wills.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:01
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There also is the big issue of: how does screwing over 1 other team help your team win against everyone else?
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Mar 22, 2021 18:03
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Nephzinho posted:There also is the big issue of: how does screwing over 1 other team help your team win against everyone else? How wouldn't taking a 5 star or better player help? Your roster gets better that's the entire point. You hijack their will.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:12
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Ches Neckbeard posted:How wouldn't taking a 5 star or better player help? Your roster gets better that's the entire point. You hijack their will. If you hijack their will to trade their best player for your worst, it is very obvious and you can be retaliated against. As opposed to just Revoking their best player and them not knowing who did it + not being able to steal that player back.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:25
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Nephzinho posted:If you hijack their will to trade their best player for your worst, it is very obvious and you can be retaliated against. As opposed to just Revoking their best player and them not knowing who did it + not being able to steal that player back. So you've hijacked their will improving your team then forcing them to try to steal the player back. You get to contend while they have to spend another will to try to get back to where they were and you can use your own will to get better again or strip another team. I don't see a downside here unless the community decides to go full revenge which there's no guarantee on that. Hell the community could decide its the meta now. Either way you get to contend with an extra will.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:38
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I spent half my votes trying to get Nagomi back and felt kinda bad, but now, gently caress it. It's open season as far as I'm concerned. Welcome to the Stealing Players Era.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:51
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flatluigi posted:i'm talking about the rest of the fanbase and TGB hearing about it Okay let's say TGB has heard about it. What do they do?
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Mar 22, 2021 19:03
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The Pussy Boss posted:I spent half my votes trying to get Nagomi back and felt kinda bad, but now, gently caress it. It's open season as far as I'm concerned. Welcome to the Stealing Players Era. You've been able to steal players since Season 1. 
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Mar 22, 2021 19:03
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Honestly the biggest issue I have is duping/cheating coins. If people want to spend legit coin on legit in-game purchases, whatever. Hacking the API or whatever should be off limits. The unfortunate fact of "democracy" is that the largest voting bloc wins, and the unfortunate fact of the lottery is that sometimes the largest voting bloc doesn't win. These two effects aren't proportionate, but they do work together to some degree. But playing the game outside the prescribed rules of the game is just bad splortsmanship. In my opinion.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:23
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Quick reminder that even TGB describes Blaseball as a horror game, and is inherently unfair.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:27
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In this case it's the RNG being unfair which is expected vs other fan bases doing it. It would be nice if the bands clarified if that's intended or not.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:43
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I mean look at the S11 election, that was 100% a deliberate design decision.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:51
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People get salty every election, it seems a little more prevalent now that everything has blown up. I get it, but there's so much variance in Blaseball that you can't ever expect it to be 'fair.' it's Mario Party. I forget which season it was, but spies finally won a clutch blessing and ended up with a-tier pitching and Hell Defense. Then reverb happened and it threw our optimal lineup in the trash. If someone is really going to go undercover to gently caress with smaller teams, that's a significant opportunity cost and is of arguable benefit. Like the guy on the Lovers who came into the Spies discord to brag about sending Fitz away. Cool dude, look at the Lovers now lol.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:34
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i think there's a difference between 'unfair' in terms of the game's whims rolling stuff away and 'unfair' in terms of 'i blame specific people for the bad thing that happened to me' and the latter's where things get lovely i do wish people just let it bounce off instead of having it bug them though
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Mar 22, 2021 20:40
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The commissioner is doing a great job.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:47
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beggar posted:The commissioner is doing a great job. This is most certainly true.
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Mar 22, 2021 20:57
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flatluigi posted:i think there's a difference between 'unfair' in terms of the game's whims rolling stuff away and 'unfair' in terms of 'i blame specific people for the bad thing that happened to me' and the latter's where things get lovely Yeah there's a difference between things not going your way because of RNG, and things not going your way because people are intentionally loving you over.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:01
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