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Has anyone in the history of humanity ever said "yes, I decided to transition for the untold societal benefits of being identifiably transgender?" My intuition is "no." Pretty much anyone I can think of who transitioned to obtain any benefits beyond being happier with themselves did so with the knowledge that being outed would mean terrible things (and did so in response to a sexist society).
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Mar 22, 2021 01:28
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Fart Amplifier posted:"trans people are actually privileged" is a loving disgusting take. It's also incredibly typical of fascist white people like Glenn. Minorities actually have it better than we do even though we constantly kill them and steal from them and live better lives at their expense through that oppression because they get "the victim card," which is then used to turn white race traito... I mean "Virtue Signaling White-Guilt-Having SJWs" against us, thereby enacting REVERSE RACISM and OPPRESSION OF WHITE PEOPLE.
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Mar 22, 2021 01:29
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Halloween Jack posted:I don't have a strong opinion on Greenwald, but I am curious as to why the USPol thread melts down about him pretty much every single day. The last time it was some person just begging for a random leftist to show up and defend Greenwald like they were posting a Craigslist hookup ad. Why do people keep wandering in here, refusing to read the thread and then for some reason always trying to make the point that anyone who objects to Greenwald is wrong in some way?
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Mar 22, 2021 01:47
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That convo is substantially dumber than even the tweet makes it seem
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Mar 22, 2021 02:08
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Solkanar512 posted:Why do people keep wandering in here, refusing to read the thread and then for some reason always trying to make the point that anyone who objects to Greenwald is wrong in some way? Because there are users who really, really hate DnD and/or SA hatesharing parts of the forum on offsites and in other parts of the forum.
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Mar 22, 2021 02:11
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Fart Amplifier posted:"trans people are actually privileged" is a loving disgusting take. yep. its such a weird loving outlook. like i genuinely don't understand glenns weird complex. "oh hey a fellow reporter is getting harassed horribly by dickhead nerds and tech touchers for reporting on hosed up condictions and culture poo poo in tech, maybe i can help he because i also broke a big story about tech and awfulness and got harrased for it and she could use an ally, NAAAAH clearly she is an piece of poo poo who is trying to be a victim unlike me who is the truest victim" or "hey trans and nonbinary folks get alot of horrific abuse in their lives and online and many are trying to speak out about it, as a gay man, maybe i could try to help them by giving them a platform or uplifting voices since i live in a country run by a facist rear end in a top hat who would kill me for my sexuality, hmmm, NAAHHH, I'll whine and poo poo on them with other assholes and American fascists' because I am the REAL VICTIM, now to go on tucker and agree with all his stuff and talk about the evil trans people who want to get rid of gay men like myself and when i get called on it, i'll cry that i am the victim". yeah victim culture exists and its not the actual victims doing it. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 02:19
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Solkanar512 posted:Why do people keep wandering in here, refusing to read the thread and then for some reason always trying to make the point that anyone who objects to Greenwald is wrong in some way? Discendo Vox posted:Because there are users who really, really hate DnD and/or SA hatesharing parts of the forum on offsites and in other parts of the forum. Let's not do forums drama in this thread, please. (also Halloween Jack's post is a couple days old)
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Mar 22, 2021 02:31
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yep. its such a weird loving outlook. like i genuinely don't understand glenns weird complex. "oh hey a fellow reporter is getting harassed horribly by dickhead nerds and tech touchers for reporting on hosed up condictions and culture poo poo in tech, maybe i can help he because i also broke a big story about tech and awfulness and got harrased for it and she could use an ally, NAAAAH clearly she is an piece of poo poo who is trying to be a victim unlike me who is the truest victim" or "hey trans and nonbinary folks get alot of horrific abuse in their lives and online and many are trying to speak out about it, as a gay man, maybe i could try to help them by giving them a platform or uplifting voices since i live in a country run by a facist rear end in a top hat who would kill me for my sexuality, hmmm, NAAHHH, I'll whine and poo poo on them with other assholes and American fascists' because I am the REAL VICTIM, now to go on tucker and agree with all his stuff and talk about the evil trans people who want to get rid of gay men like myself and when i get called on it, i'll cry that i am the victim". Glenn is a narcissist, trans people aren't him so they don't matter, and people caring about them instead of him is wrong. His views make sense if you realize he's just hugely self centered. Everything is filtered through how it affects him personally.
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Mar 22, 2021 12:47
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Also relatively rich white gay dudes are like the first group to turn against trans people. I have seen it over and over. They get annoyed that they can't use their identity as a shield from criticism anymore.
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Mar 22, 2021 12:56
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Beelzebufo posted:Also relatively rich white gay dudes are like the first group to turn against trans people. I have seen it over and over. They get annoyed that they can't use their identity as a shield from criticism anymore. Isn't this right here exactly what you people are accusing Glenn of doing
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Mar 22, 2021 15:55
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:Isn't this right here exactly what you people are accusing Glenn of doing accurately stating that gay men, especially white and relatively well off ones, often don't act in solidarity with trans people, and instead ally with transphobes against further pushes for recognition? Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 15:58
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Log Cabin Republicans do exactly that.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:10
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Andrew Sullivan started selling out the rest of the LGBT community the exact moment he wasn't at immediate risk of being fired or clubbed in the streets for being a wealthy gay man, and is now a big name on the front of fighting political correctness and 'cancel culture', defending the free speech of those who want to put trans people in mental wards or in terminally unhappy lives of self-denial. Didn't think Glenn would take the same road, but also not really surprised. It's not like he currently lives in Brazil, where trans people are murdered every single day, and where the bigots that assault them post the videos of the beatings on social media because they are proud of it and the law turns a blind eye. Ist it? Oh.
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Mar 22, 2021 16:47
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Sephyr posted:Andrew Sullivan started selling out the rest of the LGBT community the exact moment he wasn't at immediate risk of being fired or clubbed in the streets for being a wealthy gay man, and is now a big name on the front of fighting political correctness and 'cancel culture', defending the free speech of those who want to put trans people in mental wards or in terminally unhappy lives of self-denial. yeah. honestly every time i think of glenn constently trying to buddy up with facists in his weird warped view of a red-fash alliance (much like other "lefties" like coffin and few other randos) i always think of this scene from goodfellas. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUJmJoifajE because thats whats gonna happen to stupid fucks like that if the fascist ever openly got i their way into power fully and openly operated the way they wanted openly, same thing would happen to POC/LGBT proud boys and shitheads like Milo and probably Cauthorn since you can't have "cripples" in the New Order. what pisses me off is greenwald knows this, its why he hates bolsonaro for being an open fascist but i guess he thinks american fascists would be more "forgiving"?
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Mar 22, 2021 17:04
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Caitlyn Jenner is also a regressive and in 2016 she wanted to be Cruz's trans ambrassador, not sure if she tried to hold water for Donnie or try to be one of those Lincon Project types. maybe we should get rid of all rich white males?
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Mar 22, 2021 17:04
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Not to get all mind-reader here, but I do believe that Glenn hates Bolsonaro mostly because he is affiliated with the militia that killed Mariele Franco, an up-and-coming black bisexual politician who was a personal friend and a member of his husband's party. Otherwise, I'd give it even odds that he'd welcome bozo as a "response against runaway political correctness" or some poo poo like that. There is no other reason for him to dislike human turds like Augusto Nunes (Well, other than Nunes slapped his face live on air and kept his job) and rub elbows with Tucker Carlson, who is arguably even worse.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:27
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PhazonLink posted:Caitlyn Jenner is also a regressive and in 2016 she wanted to be Cruz's trans ambrassador, not sure if she tried to hold water for Donnie or try to be one of those Lincon Project types. i think she did both. i think she was behind trump until it sorta affected her and than she sorta turned on him.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:27
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Beelzebufo posted:accurately stating that gay men, especially white and relatively well off ones, often don't act in solidarity with trans people, and instead ally with transphobes against further pushes for recognition? even if I'm reading you pretty generously you were much more specific and offensive than this you (plural) take issue with glenn's take on some notable, recently out, well-off trans people in media – that they are opportunists manoeuvring for advantage in a social and professional milieu that in some ways rewards being trans over being a butch lesbian or whatever. The problem with that is, obviously, that he is ascribing really petty motives for a drastic, sometimes dangerous step like coming out as trans. According to Greenwald, he whole reason for one of the most important and indelible decisions in their lives was just jockeying for position on a ladder of 'oppression' in an environment where none of them are really oppressed. But then right here you're ascribing exactly the same motives to similarly well-off gay men: Beelzebufo posted:Also relatively rich white gay dudes are like the first group to turn against trans people. I have seen it over and over. They get annoyed that they can't use their identity as a shield from criticism anymore.
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Mar 22, 2021 17:34
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PhazonLink posted:Caitlyn Jenner is also a regressive and in 2016 she wanted to be Cruz's trans ambrassador, not sure if she tried to hold water for Donnie or try to be one of those Lincon Project types. So if i’m reading this correctly we should get rid of caitlyn jenner because she’s a rich white male? not trying to gotcha, i loving despise doing this because i loathe caitlyn jenner (who literally loving killed someone among all the other things you just listed!) but this is like a textbook bit of transphobia it’s also loving insane to me that we as the left are still talking about greenwald today which i never would have predicted two decades ago in high school debate club reading his dogbrained takes on Iraq
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Mar 22, 2021 17:46
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:even if I'm reading you pretty generously you were much more specific and offensive than this No, the motivation of well off gay men is to revert to their class interest once their ability to secure property rights via marriage has passed, which is why the gay marriage movement entirely coopted broader demands of the gay movement (like universal healthcare, which was an explicit plank of the gay right movement in the US in the 80s before being dropped in subsequent decades in favour of things that only concerned more affluent gay couples). I am saying that Glenn is reverting to his class interests and attacking broader acceptance of gender diversity, which would require actually shaking up the property relations of the US. I am saying that wealthy gay men have proven, over and over, that they operate under the same systemic factors as other members of the capitalist class and will try to defend this conservative bent by using their membership in an oppressed identity as a shield from criticism, much like every other token minority in conservative movements. There also does seem to be a strange element of conservatism with regards to gender with gay men, where they tacitly endorse gender essentiallism, and push against the idea of gender non-conformity as a valid identity. Then, when people say that just because they are gay doesn't mean they can't be racist, sexist, transphobic, etc., they get angry that suddenly being gay isn't carte-blanche to have their opinions validated. Beelzebufo fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 17:51
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Picard Day posted:So if i’m reading this correctly we should get rid of caitlyn jenner because she’s a rich white male? not trying to gotcha, i loving despise doing this because i loathe caitlyn jenner (who literally loving killed someone among all the other things you just listed!) but this is like a textbook bit of transphobia sorry if my post came out like that, but i thought i was just highlighting how her previous privilege of being part of the highest tier social group gave her a sense of superiority and she still allies with regressives for tax and other reasons.
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Mar 22, 2021 18:09
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:even if I'm reading you pretty generously you were much more specific and offensive than this You are showing your whole rear end here if you think GG has beef with specific trans people in media rather than the entire class of people, he literally posted about a study showing an increase in trans identification in the recent generational cohorts and tries to pass that off as evidence that people were being somehow fooled into being trans rather than gay/lesbian. Either read the very most basic amount about the thing you are posting about or lurk long enough to get a baseline understanding https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1364618178916200455?s=20 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1364619334790873088?s=20 As a relatively well-off white gay cis man myself, I refuse to let Glenn Greenwald try to speak for me, much less anyone who isn't well-off, white, cis, or male. Every movement has struggled to deal with fractures due to intersectionality historically, but that doesn't mean we should instead be exclusionary towards other oppressed classes just so the hosed up status quo "takes us seriously". If you refuse to incorporate the T into your LGBT attitudes then you should be persona non grata in the LGBT community, period Edit: with regards to whether other well-off gay men have shithead attitudes, take your pick out of Peter Thiel, Kevin Spacey, Dan Savage, whoever. Where ingroups overlap outgroups you get a very hosed up place where they abuse other people who share their outgroup using the resources and clout from their ingroup status. This isn't a problem unique to the gay community by any stretch, which is why you have lovely people like Jenner or Diamond and Silk or whatever who use their outgroup status to punch down at the behest of people who elevate them socially and monetarily BougieBitch fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 18:27
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oh no not my whole rear end. between that and letting the mask slip ALL the way off, golly, not a good look 4 me (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 22, 2021 18:31
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Eugene V. Dubstep posted:oh no not my whole rear end. between that and letting the mask slip ALL the way off, golly, not a good look 4 me Why are you going to bat for a person who hates trans people; personally, I feel like that's not a good look
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Mar 22, 2021 18:54
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Why are you going to bat for a person who hates trans people; personally, I feel like that's not a good look because they think greenwald is "one of the good guys" so their for its acceptable.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:02
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:Why are you going to bat for a person who hates trans people; personally, I feel like that's not a good look Listen it's not that GG is a bigot, he can't be, he's gay and dates a non-white person. Everyone knows that makes you immune to being a bigot. He just says bigoted-sounded things and goes on white supremacist shows, sure. But if you really think about it, all you have to do is ignore his writings and consider that it's not bad at all if he goes on white supremacist tv shows if he really wants to, and you'll see that it's OK. I did a CTRL-F on his blog and never found the phrase "I am a white supremacist", just a bunch of stuff about how racist violence isn't real.
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Mar 22, 2021 19:03
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Beelzebufo posted:No, the motivation of well off gay men is to revert to their class interest once their ability to secure property rights via marriage has passed, which is why the gay marriage movement entirely coopted broader demands of the gay movement (like universal healthcare, which was an explicit plank of the gay right movement in the US in the 80s before being dropped in subsequent decades in favour of things that only concerned more affluent gay couples). I am saying that Glenn is reverting to his class interests and attacking broader acceptance of gender diversity, which would require actually shaking up the property relations of the US. I am saying that wealthy gay men have proven, over and over, that they operate under the same systemic factors as other members of the capitalist class and will try to defend this conservative bent by using their membership in an oppressed identity as a shield from criticism, much like every other token minority in conservative movements. There also does seem to be a strange element of conservatism with regards to gender with gay men, where they tacitly endorse gender essentiallism, and push against the idea of gender non-conformity as a valid identity. Then, when people say that just because they are gay doesn't mean they can't be racist, sexist, transphobic, etc., they get angry that suddenly being gay isn't carte-blanche to have their opinions validated. Disclaimer: I am not queer, nor have I made more than a passing study of queer history, but it seems like that a big facet of the 90s mainstreaming of gayness centered on "we're just like you, straights, only we love/are attracted to members of the same sex. We are not a threat!" Making gayness non-threatening meant embracing the gender binary. And I think that for a lot of people, being out meant saying "I am gay; I love men" and really latching on to that in a way that made the gender binary almost a necessity. (Also, as discussed elsewhere in this thread, you have a lot of well off white gay dudes who really just want to maintain access to their class/white/male privilege, so they're pretty quick to break ranks over intersectional issues)
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Mar 22, 2021 20:55
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Fighting Trousers posted:Disclaimer: I am not queer, nor have I made more than a passing study of queer history, but it seems like that a big facet of the 90s mainstreaming of gayness centered on "we're just like you, straights, only we love/are attracted to members of the same sex. We are not a threat!" Making gayness non-threatening meant embracing the gender binary. And I think that for a lot of people, being out meant saying "I am gay; I love men" and really latching on to that in a way that made the gender binary almost a necessity. Yeah, it was a strong assimilationist impulse that presented gay relationships in particular as "heterosexuality with the same gender". Maybe I gently caress dudes, but I still want to be raise the 2.5 kids and be a productive member of society.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:05
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Jaxyon posted:Listen it's not that GG is a bigot, he can't be, he's gay and dates a non-white person. Everyone knows that makes you immune to being a bigot. Right, much like known non-bigots Candace Owens and Milo Yiannopoulos.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:08
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https://twitter.com/SababaUSA/status/1374158762035003407 what a loving idiot. like the funniest thing is i think he is legit surprised.
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Mar 23, 2021 05:14
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the borken clock that happens to be a pile of metal powder some how magically formed back into a clock with the correct time before then reverting back into a pile of metal dust.
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Mar 23, 2021 05:23
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/SababaUSA/status/1374158762035003407 The Republicans can't be obvious bad-faith actors, how could I possibly go on their TV shows and lend their movement that wants me dead for being gay legitimacy if that were the case?!
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Mar 23, 2021 05:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://twitter.com/SababaUSA/status/1374158762035003407 Does this rear end in a top hat seriously believe that Republicans can be cozied up to?
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Mar 23, 2021 05:48
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Oh my god he's every dumb college libertarian ever. "what do you mean you don't believe Ron Paul is 100% honest? Why would he lie about being racist?" E: Thank goodness Tucker Carlson is allowing this brave man to speak his truth, otherwise how would cogent analysis like this make it to the masses?
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Mar 23, 2021 05:50
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Fighting Trousers posted:Disclaimer: I am not queer, nor have I made more than a passing study of queer history, but it seems like that a big facet of the 90s mainstreaming of gayness centered on "we're just like you, straights, only we love/are attracted to members of the same sex. We are not a threat!" Making gayness non-threatening meant embracing the gender binary. And I think that for a lot of people, being out meant saying "I am gay; I love men" and really latching on to that in a way that made the gender binary almost a necessity. I feel like this kind of thing might go hand in hand with TERFs, certainly gives me White Feminism vibes.
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Mar 23, 2021 07:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel like this kind of thing might go hand in hand with TERFs, certainly gives me White Feminism vibes. There's definitely overlap, and it also includes the weird almost sacrilization of gender. A big one I know is things like saying that someone can't be gay if they are in a relationship with a trans-man. Despite all the claims to gay men having a unique "culture" that is somehow harmed by the inclusion of transmen, at the end of the day it always boils down to whether you suck dicks. It might as well be a cult of penis-worship.
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Mar 23, 2021 13:53
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Beelzebufo posted:There's definitely overlap, and it also includes the weird almost sacrilization of gender. A big one I know is things like saying that someone can't be gay if they are in a relationship with a trans-man. Despite all the claims to gay men having a unique "culture" that is somehow harmed by the inclusion of transmen, at the end of the day it always boils down to whether you suck dicks. It might as well be a cult of penis-worship. I mean, that's patriarchy in a nutshell, the obsession and worship over size and potency and symbols thereof at the expense of literally everything else. Gender essentialism is a special kind of poison.
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Mar 23, 2021 14:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel like this kind of thing might go hand in hand with TERFs, certainly gives me White Feminism vibes. I mean, that's literally the person he's signal boosting, a lesbian that thinks that including trans women into feminism somehow waters down the message. The only reason there isn't an equivalent term for men that exclude trans men from things is because it already fits so well under headers like "toxic masculinity" that giving it the cover of "radical homosexuality" or whatever would be giving it too much credit
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Mar 23, 2021 15:56
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel like this kind of thing might go hand in hand with TERFs, certainly gives me White Feminism vibes. Well yeah, a big component of the more radical flavors of second wave feminism was pushback against the patriarchal idea that femininity is lesser than masculinity, or broken or flawed in some way. Of course, then they push the pendulum too far in the other direction by asserting that femininity is somehow BETTER than masculinity, instead of just different. And that's how you get into all this "sacred womynhood" business, which winds up reinforcing the gender binary AGAIN, only this time it's okay because we're reclaiming our power or something. (Second wave feminism got weird, man)
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Mar 23, 2021 17:20
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Why is this thread marked as temporary?
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Mar 23, 2021 17:31
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