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Unfortunately, the Eevees you get from Pokemon Stadium are already Level 25. But if I'd kept TONIC underleveled, I could've used him. Which would probably be for the best anyways, even if I could get another level 20 Eevee. Jolteon learns Thundershock at... checks notes Level 31.
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Mar 21, 2021 07:51
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Yeah, for comparison, level 15 Raichu only 3HKOs level 20 Gyarados with Thunder Shock (technically this is with both pokemon having maxed out stat exp as the calculator has that hard baked in, but it probably works out to being close enough to how it would be in practice) and takes over 60% in return from Surf and Double-Edge. So you would need to use one of your level 20s on Raichu just to 2HKO and then you are left with a pokemon with a 40 BP STAB move and uhh Hyper Beam as coverage for what is supposed to be one of your main sweepers. You really need Thunderbolt or Thunder to be an effective electric type.
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Mar 21, 2021 08:15
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It's worth noting that Thunderbolt remains an extremely rare move for electric-types to learn naturally. From Gen I, Pikachu retains its addition to its movepool from Yellow, and Electabuzz gets it added in Gen II, likely because Elekid's creation prompted a review of its moves, but none of the others get it (unless you play the Let's Go games, in which case they all get it for some reason). Aside from them, nothing at all learns it naturally until Gen V, which, conveniently, was also the first gen to introduce reusable TMs, and even then, fewer than ten evolutionary lines get access, three of which are legendaries/Ultra Beasts. Game Freak made drat sure that Thunderbolt was the most valuable TM in every game it appeared, for reasons known only to them. Also of interest is that, uniquely, Gen II did not have Thunderbolt as a TM, it was only obtainable from a Move Tutor in Crystal. This made Gold and Silver a pretty rough time for electric-types, even with the addition of Rain Dance and its bonus of making Thunder always hit. Then again, it did have Lanturn, who could make the most of Rain Dance by rocking STAB Thunder and Surf. All you needed was a Good Rod, which you got as early as... *checks notes* Fuschia City. Gen II was... interesting.
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Mar 21, 2021 12:23
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I do want to clarify that the first six rounds weren't easy entirely by chance or mercy in game design. Leaving Ice Beam and Earthquake for Nidoking was a deliberate decision I made all the way back before even starting the LP. I would not have been able to casually roll through the first 75% of a tournament bracket without BACON for... well, basically the same reasons it's good in the speedrun. It evolves early, it's got solid across-the-board stats, STAB Earthquake, and a huge movepool that gives it the tools do deal with almost anything that EQ doesn't. Pika Cup could have been a wall of solid poo poo-scented bricks between me and finishing this LP. So I brought a wrecking ball. Seriously, Pika Cup is one of three or four ironclad reasons I'm absolutely loving not doing a repeat or sequel challenge run for Round 2.  This is what the last four battles in Pika Cup look like. I'm sorry, I'm not bringing a minigolf team into a run where I have to say "the best-case scenario is that she brings Clefable, Arcanine, and Rhydon." I'm just not. Clefable has the lowest base stats, Arcanine means no Gyarados, and Rhydon has a 4x Water weakness which means whichever clown with STAB Surf I still had alive would probably hopefully be able to OHKO it before it got dropkicked by the strongest Earthquake in the game. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 12:58
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God drat, that arcanaite has dragon rage in a set where you're forced to bring a bunch of level 15 dudes.
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Mar 21, 2021 13:40
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Lol that a lot of those pokemon have better move sets than the Elite 4.
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Mar 21, 2021 14:03
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FoolyCharged posted:God drat, that arcanaite has dragon rage in a set where you're forced to bring a bunch of level 15 dudes. Dragonair has that too, even in the one from the update. I was wondering why no one was freaking out about that. That's an easy 2HKO on everyone in PMush's team, leaving aside the usual Thunder Wave/Wrap shenanigans. I abused Dragon Rage heavily when I played this cup myself. I taught it to my Arcanine and wrecked house with it.
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Mar 21, 2021 14:10
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EclecticTastes posted:It's worth noting that Thunderbolt remains an extremely rare move for electric-types to learn naturally. From Gen I, Pikachu retains its addition to its movepool from Yellow, and Electabuzz gets it added in Gen II, likely because Elekid's creation prompted a review of its moves, but none of the others get it (unless you play the Let's Go games, in which case they all get it for some reason). Aside from them, nothing at all learns it naturally until Gen V, which, conveniently, was also the first gen to introduce reusable TMs, and even then, fewer than ten evolutionary lines get access, three of which are legendaries/Ultra Beasts. Game Freak made drat sure that Thunderbolt was the most valuable TM in every game it appeared, for reasons known only to them. you could get chinchou in johto, and the good rod was olivine city, where you could get chinchou with a 20% chance
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Mar 21, 2021 14:47
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Mmm yes, this is the stuff I've long been waiting for. And though you handled it BUTTERY smooth like a fine POLIMER, it's just so COOLISH going through all the dumb poo poo Stadium brings to the table with all the "technically legitimate" stuff, and even then not so with all the stops Stadium pulls out, how VENOMY it is like R(A)ICI(A)N that just leaves you HIGAST with things like a Dragonair with Dragon Rage in a cup designed for stuff that barely even has more than 40 HP at any given, and yet conquering it is oh so FABLISH, and thus your reward is a nice trophy for your hard work that is quite nice because, it is after all, GOLDISH!
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Mar 21, 2021 15:13
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You got lucky dodging that Tentacruel. Bane of my existence that one.
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Mar 21, 2021 15:21
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PMush Perfect posted:Seriously, Pika Cup is one of three or four ironclad reasons I'm absolutely loving not doing a repeat or sequel challenge run for Round 2.
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Mar 21, 2021 16:12
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Wait. Does the game let you run master difficulty cups from the start or are you going to have to take on the Pika Cup 3 more times? I don't think I ever tried as a kid and it's been so long I forgot. Also include the music tracks for these fights if you can. Stadium has a lot of awesome arranges of gen1 tracks throughout the stadium cups. If I remember right, each cup has four tracks for rounds 1-3, 4-6, the semi-final and final round. MR. J fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 16:14
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MagusofStars posted:How about doing the Round 2 cups just to show them off, but without the self-imposed limits on TM's, availability, etc? Basically, how people would do the game normally. It would've been better to do round 1 stuff with rentals and then round 2 with imports, because that is how you're supposed to handle it. Round 2 with rentals is a loving trashfire to the highest degree I know, because I suffered through everything with only rentals I'm fine with the current team style because anything that trims the load of (admittedly fun in a  way) bullshit stadium piles up to make it easier on PMush.MR. J posted:Wait. Does the game let you run master difficulty cups from the start or are you going to have to take on the Pika Cup 3 more times? I don't think I ever tried as a kid and it's been so long I forgot. Poke Cup and Prime Cup have 4 divisions/difficulty (poke-great-ultra-master) that also applies to Round 2. Pika and Petite(low level cups) only have one division in round 1 and round 2.
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Mar 21, 2021 16:15
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The higher levels of the PokeCup is the most fun you can have in Pokemon Stadium imo. There's still lots of Bullshit of course but it's mostly enjoyable. Also the Prime Cup in Stadium 1 has four divisions but the Prime Cup in Stadium 2 has only seen one.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:48
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UCS Hellmaker posted:you could get chinchou in johto, and the good rod was olivine city, where you could get chinchou with a 20% chance Oh, you know what, I was looking online to check stuff like that since it's been a while since I last played Gen II, and I accidentally read the wrong line (RBY instead of GSC). So, yeah, Chinchou is actually not too hard to get, since it's available in a pretty large number of waterways (even New Bark Town). Still, the lack of Thunderbolt makes other electric-types a lot harder to use well.
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Mar 21, 2021 20:46
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Silver Falcon posted:I abused Dragon Rage heavily when I played this cup myself. I taught it to my Arcanine and wrecked house with it. Actually, that describes the issue better than it being difficult. Lord knows I’ve got all sorts of stupid tricks I could pull out, even without the absolutely broken bullshit of glitches, but they’re neither narratively nor strategically interesting. I could win that challenge, for sure, once I got my feet under me. But doing so in a way that could last through an entire LP without boring all of you and myself to tears? Probably not. It’s the same reason I’ve basically banned myself from using Double Team, despite it being an infinite supply TM, and why I’ve mostly avoided using sleep abuse. The strategies that work on everything are hard to write about because they work on everything.
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Mar 21, 2021 21:24
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I’m not ruling out Round 2 if I think of SOME kind of gimmick, but not the one I used before. (I considered “use and trade between Red and Yellow” before I realized that would mean hellworld Brock, then Alakazam by Misty and them never coming off the team again.)
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Mar 22, 2021 00:43
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PMush Perfect posted:I’m not ruling out Round 2 if I think of SOME kind of gimmick, but not the one I used before. (I considered “use and trade between Red and Yellow” before I realized that would mean hellworld Brock, then Alakazam by Misty and them never coming off the team again.) Why don't you make Round 2 the one where you drop all the restrictions and show us just how mercilessly you can bully the cheating AI of Pokemon Stadium? By that point, you'll have already shown off the core elements of the game, so you could do shorter updates that focus more on how you're abusing various moves/mechanics to deal with the overpowered CPU Pokemon.
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Mar 22, 2021 02:25
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EclecticTastes posted:Why don't you make Round 2 the one where you drop all the restrictions and show us just how mercilessly you can bully the cheating AI of Pokemon Stadium? By that point, you'll have already shown off the core elements of the game, so you could do shorter updates that focus more on how you're abusing various moves/mechanics to deal with the overpowered CPU Pokemon. Seconded. I'm enjoying the LP and would love to see you drop the hammer on Round 2's bullshit.
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Mar 22, 2021 02:38
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If you wanna talk stadium bullshit  There's a Gambler in Prime Cup Master Ball Round 2 that exploits one hit kill move accuracy being based on speed discrepancies in GEN 1 by deliberately using Bubblebeam and Thunder Wave/Agility for speed differences then dropping Horn Drills and Guillotines that are suddenly 90%+ accurate 
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Mar 22, 2021 02:41
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PMush Perfect posted:I considered it, but I decided it’d make for a boring update. Oh yeah, yeah I getcha. Kid me didn't have a LP and viewers to worry about boring to tears with. You're good, PMush. I enjoy your LP. I appreciate the thought and care that goes into your updates.
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Mar 22, 2021 03:07
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EorayMel posted:If you wanna talk stadium bullshit That's not how OHKO moves work in Gen 1. They always have 30% accuracy but they auto-fail if the user isn't faster than the target. So stuff like Bubblebeam and Thunder Wave will make more pokemon susceptible to OHKO moves but it doesn't make them more accurate. The exploit with OHKO moves in Gen 1 is that X Accuracy increases their accuracy to 100%, which is heavily exploited in speedruns. But that's not a thing in Stadium since no items.
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Mar 22, 2021 03:16
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WrightOfWay posted:That's not how OHKO moves work in Gen 1. They always have 30% accuracy but they auto-fail if the user isn't faster than the target. So stuff like Bubblebeam and Thunder Wave will make more pokemon susceptible to OHKO moves but it doesn't make them more accurate. The exploit with OHKO moves in Gen 1 is that X Accuracy increases their accuracy to 100%, which is heavily exploited in speedruns. But that's not a thing in Stadium since no items. I'll just counter by saying that strategy is still really dirty, and also it's still Stadium, thus automatically having a fickle relationship with accuracy, like Thunder's 
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Mar 22, 2021 03:32
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EorayMel posted:I'll just counter by saying that strategy is still really dirty, and also it's still Stadium, thus automatically having a fickle relationship with accuracy, like Thunder's Oh, it is absolutely dirty as hell. The AI only needs to be lucky once to kill your run and it can be super frustrating when it's several fights deep. That's why going for streaks in the Battle Facilities in the mainline games is so difficult and the best strategies are minimizing the amount of times that the RNG can gently caress you.
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Mar 22, 2021 03:43
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EclecticTastes posted:Why don't you make Round 2 the one where you drop all the restrictions and show us just how mercilessly you can bully the cheating AI of Pokemon Stadium? By that point, you'll have already shown off the core elements of the game, so you could do shorter updates that focus more on how you're abusing various moves/mechanics to deal with the overpowered CPU Pokemon.
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Mar 22, 2021 06:34
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I mean, when it comes to these kinda fights, you don't have to show them all off, just do bits and pieces. I do the entirety of battle facilities in my LPs, but they take like 6 hours of recording, so I show off the Pokemon I've used doing their cool thing, show off some funny enemy AI or sets, and just focus on the bosses or important fights. I'll agree that purely showing off Pokemon battles is a tricky balance, but you don't have to show it all off, admit that you'll have to participate in some bullshit to get through this, and that isn't very interesting, but have you seen the poo poo I'm up against???
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Mar 22, 2021 07:01
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There’s always the “thread participation via voting for what Pokémon to put on the team” team build, and then you go completely ham one last time.
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Mar 22, 2021 22:24
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S.D. posted:There’s always the “thread participation via voting for what Pokémon to put on the team” team build, and then you go completely ham one last time. Edit: Show of hands, if I was to make part 2 of the LP about styling on Round 2, should I have access to: A) Just the Blue version stuff, but with infinite TMs B) All RBY resources, with infinite TMs C) Full access to everything possibly legal in Gen 1, including event Pokemon and tradebacks from Gen 2 girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Mar 22, 2021 |
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Mar 22, 2021 22:38
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I vote for C, just annihilate the cheating AI in all sorts of fun and unexpected/unintended ways!
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Mar 22, 2021 23:01
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C
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Mar 22, 2021 23:01
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PMush Perfect posted:...there are a lot of species I haven't shown off yet. That's going to be a C from me. Sure original RBY had some stuff, but I want to see what nonsense one can get into when including Gen 2 in the list, just for shenanigans
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Mar 22, 2021 23:01
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C. Give me elemental punch Gengar.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:02
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C, for sure. Even if you just give a very abbreviated overview of Round 2, hitting the highlights, it'll be fun to see what dumb bullshit you bring to the table especially when gen 2 tradebacks enter the picture.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:05
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PMush Perfect posted:...there are a lot of species I haven't shown off yet. C. Round Two is bullshit. Answer in kind.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:06
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Even though Round 2 is bullshit, it's Gen 1 bullshit, and we can beat it at its own game. B.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:11
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PMush Perfect posted:C) Full access to everything possibly legal in Gen 1, including event Pokemon and tradebacks from Gen 2 Also, to echo crosspiece, I don't think you need to necessarily show every single thing, it's fair to just hit the most absurd/bullshit highlights.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:16
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C. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's wanted revenge on this game for a long time...
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Mar 22, 2021 23:19
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C sounds good to me. By then you will have totally did your time by only using the resources of one playthrough of Blue, so you might as well go hog wild.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:31
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C just annihilate it
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Mar 22, 2021 23:36
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Well, that’s definitive. We’re still a ways away from that being relevant (I’d ballpark about a dozen updates, depending on how difficult the later stages of the PokeCup end up being), but good to know what to start brewing ideas for.
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Mar 22, 2021 23:38
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