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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Bliss TKL didn't immediately sell out. Could someone explain what justifies this kind of price?
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Mar 21, 2021 01:32
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Epsilon Plus posted:My MOlly came in. This is... heavier than I expected. I was kinda hoping to actually get some soldering practice before it arrived. How badly can I gently caress up a PCB with my first time soldering? I should probably do a practice run first, right? Soldering switches is one of the easiest solder jobs you can do. It is extremely hard to gently caress up. If you just buy a practice kit for a Christmas tree or something off Amazon and can do that, you can 100% solder switches onto a keyboard PCB.
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Mar 21, 2021 02:12
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain what justifies this kind of price? It's mostly a combination of the group buy runner taking the design, prototyping, manufacturing and other logistics costs and splitting that cost with buyers to make the run even worth doing. Group buy runners can range from some random dude with some manufacturing contacts, to a big company like Massdrop/Glorious, to companies in Asia who actually own these factories or very well-connected in the industry. Depending on who is running the group buy, how ambitious/difficult the design is to manufacture and how big of a run it is will kind of determine how cheap you can make a keyboard. I don't know much about that particular group buy but it seems to be a low volume run being done by one dude. With that said though, that design's not really my thing as well. Constellation I fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 02:42
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain what justifies this kind of price? Justify implies you want some kind of logical reasoning that you can use to explain why you just spent $450 on a keyboard + another $100 on an extra PCB and plate + $50 shipping. If that's what you're after, keep walkin' bud. But if you want to know why it costs $450, Materials are expensive. Machine time is expensive. Both of these seem exponentially more expensive than you're expecting because small manufacturing numbers means it costs more to manufacture. Tooling, machinery, assembly lines, even packaging and distribution has to be reconfigured between the production of different products and that all takes time which costs money, so factories charge a pretty penny for that. Additionally, the manufacturing process of higher end custom keyboards is more difficult generally and QC can be an absolute nightmare depending on the shape/materials/finish involved. Design, is not generally a large % of the cost but they're probably not making a shitton off of this anyway. Designers do have to cover their initial R&D and prototyping costs after all, but it's okay for them to make some money as well. I mean that's capitalism. The market for custom keebs like this currently justifies the price. It's about $100 more than something similar would have cost you a year ago, but poo poo got expensive after covid hit and everyone spent their stimulus money on metal rectangles. Epsilon Plus posted:My MOlly came in. This is... heavier than I expected. I was kinda hoping to actually get some soldering practice before it arrived. How badly can I gently caress up a PCB with my first time soldering? I should probably do a practice run first, right? I would definitely practice soldering something besides your very expensive keyboard that you waited a long time for, if you've never soldered anything before. But for the most part, no. Soldering is easy. You can gently caress it up though. You can burn or damage the pads, and melt switch housings by overheating the switch legs. Get at least a little familiar with how to solder something to avoid this. Also take some time to figure out your ideal soldering iron temp, and how often you should clean the tip. mewse posted:To be honest you could just save your money and skip to the $800 keyboard It's true, if you skip the first 4 keebs and just go straight for the $800 keyboard instead it's actually $100 cheaper. e: and as I was typing this up the Serenity65 - a $500 target keyboard just indefinitely postponed their groupbuy because they cannot seem to find a manu to produce the board at or near that pricepoint. https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=106092.0   I mean... yeah. Stainless steel is expensive as gently caress to produce right now. GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Mar 21, 2021 |
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Mar 21, 2021 02:45
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Rinkles posted:Could someone explain what justifies this kind of price? People are willing to pay it. That's it. GnarlyCharlie4u does have some valid points in that small production batches of these things get very expensive, but that's sort of not seeing the forest for the trees, IMO. These extremely custom boards are conspicuous luxury items for a certain kind of nerd whose day job probably is at a big tech company where they earn well over $200k a year. They do things like commission custom board kits where a 65% starts at $2000 (check out the price list - a stainless steel TKL is $3300), and that's without switches, stabilizers or keycaps. There's actually a pretty interesting writeup on how the prices were set for these $500 kits - the principle of setting prices based on the production cost was explicitly rejected.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:33
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Constellation I posted:Sound is really dependent on a number of factors. Material and construction of the case. Material and construction of the plate the switches are on (hell, maybe plateless even) Dampening if any on the case, keyboard placed on a desk mat, etc. Then you go on to switch types, and whether they're lubed (spring, leaf or stem), filmed etc. The Womier looks to be all poly, so it'll sound different from the all metal case linked in that video. Thanks, I'll do my best to keep an eye and ear out for things relevant to my interest. Hopefully I'll come across a GMK set that really speaks to me and gets me to crack my wallet open. Closest one I can find right now is GMK Posh that I can see is available right now in a group buy, but ehhhh. I can wait. GnarlyCharlie4u posted:whoo boy okay... Also good advice, thank you. I think ultimately I'm gonna wait until what I ordered comes in and in the meantime, get myself prepared with the tools I'll need to modify switches as it is. I dunno if I'm gonna get into PCBs and soldering anytime soon, at least not until I know EXACTLY what I am looking for, so getting a variety of switches to play around with seems like the best idea for the moment. What's the discord link? I probably won't have a lot to say since I'm brand new to this stuff, but I'm sure I can lurk and glean information.
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Mar 21, 2021 18:50
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Framboise posted:What's the discord link? I probably won't have a lot to say since I'm brand new to this stuff, but I'm sure I can lurk and glean information. People other than me do much of the heavy lifting in providing info and content, but come join us 
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Mar 22, 2021 02:22
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:Bliss TKL didn't immediately sell out. Wish you hadn't mentioned this, now I'm in another GB...
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Mar 22, 2021 02:33
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oh hey look a $200 CP Full size https://www.velocifiretech.com/product/kk98-r2-keyboard-kit/ No QMK though, but it's how-swap so it could make a good entry level board.
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Mar 23, 2021 05:37
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what are my options for a 104-key wireless keeb with mechanical switches (brown)? it would be nice if I could easily swap out individual switches if they started failing. Looking for good battery life as well (and not having response times so bad that they would be problematic for gaming) I also have a logitech g400s (previously mx518) and would like to replace it with something similar as well, but probably separate is better so I can replace them independently Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 17:48
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As far as I know Keychron is still the only game in town for wireless mechanical keyboards, at least below the Obsessive Hobbyist price point.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:53
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GMMK Pro reviews are out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8dTDvBB2pU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS4czKl7WpQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8dTDvBB2pU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kLDapkRDXM https://youtu.be/_23j28Ue3Jw https://youtu.be/SEsGlJpqYVA
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Mar 23, 2021 18:04
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Eric the Mauve posted:As far as I know Keychron is still the only game in town for wireless mechanical keyboards, at least below the Obsessive Hobbyist price point. not thrilled about the forced move to TKL but I guess you do what you gotta. Put in an order for an aluminum backed RGB hotswap K8 with browns. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 19:21
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The K4 I think is a 100 key model. Not the standard full size format but it does have a numpad.
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Mar 23, 2021 19:39
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Eric the Mauve posted:The K4 I think is a 100 key model. Not the standard full size format but it does have a numpad. I really loathe that "compressed" format though, if it's numpad or spacing between the main keys and the home island / arrow key island then I pick the spacing.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:04
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TKL and a separate numpad is probably the way to go here, then.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:05
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Paul MaudDib posted:not thrilled about the forced move to TKL but I guess you do what you gotta. Put in an order for an aluminum backed RGB model with browns. Yeah you are going to have to make a choice of tradeoffs. K4 - Hotswap, but bluetooth wireless and a 1800 layout so it's got 100 keys. Majestouch Convertible - Full-size, but not hotswap and bluetooth wireless. Logitech G613 - Full-size + Media and Macro keys and gaming wireless, but not hotswap and uses proprietary romer-g switch. No clue how it compares to mx brown.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:07
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I really want hotswap. am I gonna be super unhappy with bluetooth wireless? I do have onboard bluetooth on my mobo although I rarely use it. if it's 1ms vs .1ms then I guess who cares, as long as it's not perceptible.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:15
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I have a K4 hotswap and the bluetooth seems fine to me. I bought it for use in the office which has only been 3 days a week lately so I haven't had a ton of use on it yet but so far I like it. It only sits about a foot away from my laptop if that makes a difference.
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Mar 23, 2021 20:27
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Anyone got ideas for wrist rests? I have a 10KL
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Mar 23, 2021 21:14
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Paul MaudDib posted:I really want hotswap. am I gonna be super unhappy with bluetooth wireless? I do have onboard bluetooth on my mobo although I rarely use it. I prefer bluetooth for wireless. Dongles suck plus that whole spectrum is a mess as it is. So long as your computer isn't encased in lead and is less than like 30 feet away it'll be fine. anothergod posted:Anyone got ideas for wrist rests? I have a 10KL I prefer wood, but there's also epoxy and polycarbonate options out there. I'm sure cushion/fabric wrist rests exist but I haven't used them and I'm not really interested so I can't be of help there. Do you have a pricepoint and where are you located? Do you want something custom or just off the shelf? GnarlyCharlie4u fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Mar 23, 2021 21:44
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Paul MaudDib posted:I really want hotswap. am I gonna be super unhappy with bluetooth wireless? I do have onboard bluetooth on my mobo although I rarely use it. There are standalone hotswap wireless keypapds, but the price is around the zone of "actually the price of a full keyboard, too" https://epomaker.com/collections/all/products/epomaker-gk21s-kit
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Mar 23, 2021 22:13
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Eric the Mauve posted:As far as I know Keychron is still the only game in town for wireless mechanical keyboards, at least below the Obsessive Hobbyist price point. I have watched two youtube videos that say this brand is pretty good, and I really like the style. https://iqunix.store/collections/80-series/products/iqunix-l80-formula-typing-wireless-mechanical-keyboard?variant=32620690178108
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Mar 24, 2021 01:23
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While I'm tempted by that new keyboard everyone is hyping because it has the wheel, I just made what I consider to be my final form keyboard and I'm very, very happy with it after switch testing a ton of keyboards. I went with the Durgod K320, and upgraded the keycaps to Matcha PBT. I'm very happy with it. (with Cherry Browns which I also love, after avoiding them because of here and Reddit talking poo poo about them.)
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Mar 24, 2021 01:38
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interrodactyl posted:GMMK Pro reviews are out: If I didn't have to replace my headphones, I would grab one. Oh well there is always later in the year.
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Mar 24, 2021 02:27
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Eric the Mauve posted:As far as I know Keychron is still the only game in town for wireless mechanical keyboards, at least below the Obsessive Hobbyist price point. just for my info, what are the Obsessive Hobbyist options?
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Mar 24, 2021 02:32
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Paul MaudDib posted:just for my info, what are the Obsessive Hobbyist options? Mid level there's also these guys. https://iqunix.store/collections/iqunix-all-products
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Mar 24, 2021 02:46
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Does anyone have experience with the Dark Matter by Monoprice Aether Optical Mechanical Gaming Keyboard? I want to replace my G710 cherry brown keyboard because it's a little too large to my new desk.
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Mar 24, 2021 17:25
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Any wooden wrist rest vendors on etsy that people like?
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Mar 24, 2021 18:15
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Keychron K12 60% keyboard is up on Kickstarter. Went live at 6am and four hours later it’s 80% of its way to its “funding goal”. Keyboards set to ship in May. I’m in for an aluminum frame RGB hotswap version!  http://kck.st/3lNFlio
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Mar 24, 2021 18:19
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:I prefer bluetooth for wireless. I'm getting old, and I don't want to have carpal tunnel. I also don't want to learn how to not lean my wrists on things. So that's where I'm at. I am tempted to get a leather wrist rest, but also I have shiny keys. I was thinking leather, but most of the leather wrist rests I saw looked cheap
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Mar 24, 2021 18:21
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Isn't the prevailing opinion that wrist rests are bad for your wrists (unless you're not actually wresting your wrists on them)?
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Mar 24, 2021 21:41
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LionArcher posted:I have watched two youtube videos that say this brand is pretty good, and I really like the style. Also look at Royal Kludge. They have lots of 3 mode (BT/Dongle/Wired) keyboards with hot swap. I have two of them.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:49
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Rinkles posted:Isn't the prevailing opinion that wrist rests are bad for your wrists (unless you're not actually wresting your wrists on them)? Pretty much. I use a palm rest for my left hand at home and I'm likely to start using one for both hands soon at work, but that's literally "palm resting over it with as much pressure as laying the hand flat on a table", so a whole lot less nerve trouble. It's been helpful at home, at least.
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Mar 24, 2021 21:51
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Rinkles posted:Isn't the prevailing opinion that wrist rests are bad for your wrists (unless you're not actually wresting your wrists on them)? yup. anothergod posted:I'm getting old, and I don't want to have carpal tunnel. I also don't want to learn how to not lean my wrists on things. So that's where I'm at. I am tempted to get a leather wrist rest, but also I have shiny keys. I was thinking leather, but most of the leather wrist rests I saw looked cheap You don't want a wrist rest. You want a whole fuckin forearm rest if you're trying to prevent wrist strain. A block of wood alone won't prevent carpal tunnel. You need proper posture and typing position. Low profile keyboards are a good start. Alice style or ergo keyboards that allow your elbows to stick out and shoulders to stay apart while retaining a natural wrist position are a huge upgrade. however if you're too stubborn to do any of the aforementioned then just get a big fat gel filled one from Staples or something. BGrifter posted:Keychron K12 60% keyboard is up on Kickstarter. Went live at 6am and four hours later it’s 80% of its way to its “funding goal”. Keyboards set to ship in May. They also mentioned they're working on QMK 
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Mar 24, 2021 22:09
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got my K8 an hour go and already having issues with lag/repeating keystrokes on my NUC (over bluetooth). I'll try it on my work laptop and my gaming rig but it's not looking good  (it's actually glitched like 3-4 times just typing this. my NUC is only about three feet away.  Trying to re-pair it and see how that goes.)
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Mar 24, 2021 22:15
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Paul MaudDib posted:got my K8 an hour go and already having issues with lag/repeating keystrokes on my NUC (over bluetooth). I'll try it on my work laptop and my gaming rig but it's not looking good plug it into usb and use it that way until it's fully charged. then freshly pair it.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:26
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As someone with an ergonomically suboptimal setup (i.e., have a wrist rest because my desk has a keyboard tray and putting a wrist rest there was the best option with the rest of how it's set up), I like my Grifiti fat wrist rest, the "smooth skin" one feels quite nice. I'm not a ghoul, though, so I am pro smoothskin. 
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Mar 24, 2021 22:31
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GnarlyCharlie4u posted:plug it into usb and use it that way until it's fully charged. I plugged it into power right away but I'm running it in BT mode since that's how I'll use it. I can certainly repair it once it's charged though. I actually flashed the firmware and that seems to have fixed it for now. We'll see how it goes.
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Mar 24, 2021 22:34
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money cannot buy bluetooth that actually works reliably. you'll be having pairing issues, dropouts and various gremlins from now until forever. that's just how bluetooth is and you're best off accepting your fate now. for something like a pair of headphones this may be acceptable (if you don't care about the several hundred millisecond delay that bluetooth audio usually has) but for a keyboard it'd drive me bonkers in a matter of weeks. we had bluetooth keyboards at work for years, so I had to learn this the hard way. logitech's dongles that operate on the 2.4 ghz band do actually work in my experience, but I've never had more than one device at a time and the dongle has never been more than maybe 20 cm from the device (call that maybe a foot, for US peeps).
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Mar 24, 2021 22:46
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