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Doctor Nutt posted:The Musk thing indeed taints the movie and is embarrassingly out of place having recently rewatched, but Sam Rockwell as Justin Hammer means it cannot possibly be the worst Marvel movie. Don't you mean Sam Rockwell as Dana Carvey as Justin Hammer?
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Mar 25, 2021 00:19
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SCheeseman posted:It's one of the rare MCU movies that felt autuerish. It's a very Shane Black movie, right down to the Christmas setting.
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Mar 25, 2021 02:16
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:And why not? It worked in Blazing Saddles. Clearly Sam needs to take himself hostage at some point to get away from racist idiots. Oooh, that could make Bucky the Gene Wilder gunfighter. gently caress, now I really want to see an MCU movie directed by Mel Brooks. Except that Holy poo poo, this is going to be a thing. Everyone fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 25, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 02:19
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Doctor Nutt posted:The Musk thing indeed taints the movie and is embarrassingly out of place having recently rewatched, but Sam Rockwell as Justin Hammer means it cannot possibly be the worst Marvel movie. I'd rather he weren't in the flick, but if he has to be, that's his place. Being humiliated by an actual genius.
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Mar 25, 2021 02:34
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WSAENOTSOCK posted:At least his appearance was as a tryhard dork trying to impress Tony, who completely bigtimes him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnsWlBi8YPg
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Mar 25, 2021 02:53
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achillesforever6 posted:Yeah it's funny how people go "Ugh all these Marvel movies are the same" and also talk how bad Iron Man 3 is despite being Shane Black as all hell
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Mar 25, 2021 03:42
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Lammasu posted:"All Marvel movies are the same" infuriates me. Winter Soldier and Ragnarök are two wildly different films. Do these people go, "A protagonist overcoming challenges? This again? " Yea when people say that Iron Man and Dr Strange are exactly the same movies, I'm like "other than the hero being an arrogant rear end at the start and then suffers and injury that changes his life" there's very little similarities that aren't standard origin story. I totally belive in the MCU Elon Musk is considered some hack who probably ends up being duped by super villains to building badly made death rays.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:18
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Lammasu posted:"All Marvel movies are the same" infuriates me. Winter Soldier and Ragnarök are two wildly different films. Do these people go, "A protagonist overcoming challenges? This again? " I don't think they're all the same, per se, but they do follow a formula, and they do have an unfortunate tendency to devote a decent chunk of their runtime to saying, "By the way, don't forget to check out the next Marvel Studios film, coming to a theater near you in six months!" And they absolutely do have a "house style" that is pretty hard to ignore, and directors have said that when you're working with Marvel Studios, you're working in their machine and that's just part of the cost of doing business. But then again, this is why I just largely ignore the Marvel Studios movies. I like Iron Man 1 and 3, I like The Incredible Hulk, I generally like Winter Soldier (although I have issues with it and The First Avenger, most notably in that Cap's reasons for loyalty to Bucky are far more told than shown; prior to Bucky falling off the train in First Avenger we don't see a ton of them being bosom buddies) and the first Guardians, I thought Ragnarok was mostly okay and the two Ant-Man movies are perfectly inoffensive background noise. Otherwise, though, I just ignore the Marvel movies unless they happen to be on TV or something or someone has rented one; they really just don't do anything for me, though Iron Man 3 is an annual watch. Other people love them, and, hey, that's perfectly fine, no skin off my nose. 
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Mar 25, 2021 04:37
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Lammasu posted:"All Marvel movies are the same" infuriates me. Winter Soldier and Ragnarök are two wildly different films. Do these people go, "A protagonist overcoming challenges? This again? " On a more fair level I do think it's ok to recognize that the MCU movies largely work the same basic narrative arcs-- the hero is unsure of themselves or otherwise being held back by some form of selfishness or ego, and by committing to selflessness are rewarded with victory over the material villains and reach some level of emotional growth as well as make closer surrogate family bonds. Spider-Man learns to stop relying on Stark tech and to stop focusing on his "career" as a superhero and gets to beat the Vulture and ultimately join the Avengers. Captain America reaffirms that his moral values are in-fact correct and gets to beat Hydra again. Iron Man and Doctor Strange stop being self-absorbed jackasses and take responsibility for their innate brilliance, and get to be Iron Man and the Sorcerer Supreme. Thor is insecure about Asgard's righteousness and his own abilities without Mjolnir, but recognizes that nations are better treated as ideals and gets rewarded by saving his people and letting two apocalypse-events in Hera and Surtur cancel each other out. The Guardians of the Galaxy and the Avengers all get over themselves long enough to reach out and connect, and get to work together as a family. Black Panther recognizes that Wakandan history and isolationism are going to destroy the country from within and gets to be the rightful king. The only time a movie doesn't do this is Civil War-- Captain America and Iron Man both start making moves out of self-interest and the Avengers break down-- and Infinity War/Endgame, which is special. In Infinity War all of the usual "be your true self in helping others, not your ego and desires" stuff happens, but it doesn't matter because Thanos is an rear end in a top hat and has magic rocks. That's the secret to why the audience can't help but be hypnotized by Thanos because he breaks all of the normal rules. Loki does the noble thing and gets killed. Thor nearly kills himself getting a superweapon and it doesn't matter. Doctor Strange and Iron Man hash out their beef to stop Thanos but it doesn't matter. Star-Lord is prompted and goaded into murdering Gamora and then gets the psychic whiplash of a 20 foot chain by Thanos telling him "lol get hosed" and then Thanos proceeds to murder Gamora anyway. Vision and Wanda agree to sacrifice their relationship and Vision's life to save the universe and it doesn't. loving. matter. And then Endgame which is honestly mostly fanservice... but to be perfectly honest if you have an 11 year run like Marvel Studios you get at least one movie that's full fanservice and victory-lapping where everyone just jerks each other off for a while. But the thing is those really are the same basic arcs. The devil is in the details-- Ant Man and the Wasp's journey is pointedly different from Captain Marvel's who is very different from Iron Man who is leagues apart from what Black Widow goes through, or Yondu, or T'challa-- but the same basic start and end points persist. And that chafes people because they... I don't know, they seem to be under the impression that we'd be getting Aliens or Independence Day or Pirates of the Caribbean or Indiana Jones, prior popcorn champs that were on no level about misfits with issues surviving and triumphing by overcoming their superficial differences and self-interest to get a goal accomplished. That and loads of superhero fans just want everything to be Batman for some reason. Either that or they're still under some misapprehension we can go back to the 1950s-70s where limited budgets and special effects meant that studios could use novel concepts and exceptional writing/production to make a big hit. I mean don't get me wrong I hate the death of the mid-budget movie too, but that doesn't mean getting rid of Marvel, DC, and whatever else is going to suddenly change the topsoil of what culture has always wanted-- loud and broad gods and monster stories with simple arcs, lots of spectacle, and fun characters.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:53
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I do like that the MCU has not had any "hero loses their powers" stories, I hate those. Its the reason i don't enjoy Spider-Man 2 as much as others.
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Mar 25, 2021 04:59
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twistedmentat posted:I do like that the MCU has not had any "hero loses their powers" stories Eh, Iron Man 3 kind of comes close, and there's the entire fish-out-of-water arc that makes up what feels like at least half of the first Thor.
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Mar 25, 2021 05:08
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Yeah I remember even on release the first Thor got (and continues to get) justified shade for the arc being a little trite. Honestly if it wasn't for Branagh's direction helping the actors convey a lot of nuance between the lines of the very shopworn script, I don't think it would have connected at all. Seriously the acting in that movie is underrated as hell when you sit back and consider how loving bizarre it all is. I think the rumors indicate they're gonna go for more deep space shenanigans, but it's honestly not an unsafe bet that Captain Marvel 2 would do the "hero loses powers" arc and use it as a double-whammy to introduce MCU versions of Mystique and Rogue (who made their debut in the 70s Ms. Marvel comic). I mean that story absolutely writes itself and would address all the fans who suddenly care a whole lot about power levels and why Carol Danvers is evidently a bridge too far. I'm not saying I want to see it or that it's a good idea, but I wouldn't be surprised/upset if they did.
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Mar 25, 2021 05:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkO7-zh6X60 MIND PRISON
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Mar 25, 2021 06:58
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Mar 25, 2021 07:35
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So, everyone is bagging on Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, and not unjustly, because they're not good marvel movies. But the people calling them the worst of the marvel movies are just flat out wrong. The Incredible Hulk holds that title. A MCU movie so bad they couldn't get the star to come back and it feels like everyone forgot it exists.
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Mar 25, 2021 08:14
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I don’t know if it counts, because the story of the MCU always seems to start with Iron Man.
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Mar 25, 2021 08:18
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Sammus posted:So, everyone is bagging on Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, and not unjustly, because they're not good marvel movies. But the people calling them the worst of the marvel movies are just flat out wrong. The Incredible Hulk holds that title. A MCU movie so bad they couldn't get the star to come back and it feels like everyone forgot it exists. Incredible Hulk is decent and gets an unfair rap imo. Also, Norton didn’t reprise the role because he wanted script control over The Avengers and any future Hulk movies, which they balked at. Thor 2 is still the worst MCU film because it’s incredibly dull and ugly. Source: I watched it like two weeks ago.
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Mar 25, 2021 08:29
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Incredible Hulk is decent and gets an unfair rap imo. Also, Norton didn’t reprise the role because he wanted script control over The Avengers and any future Hulk movies, which they balked at. Honestly what was Norton thinking? that marvel would just bow to his demands because he was technically the best known actor the mcu had back in 2008?
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Mar 25, 2021 08:45
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Lammasu posted:Do these people go, "A protagonist overcoming challenges? This again? " Put that way, I should find the MCU movies completely unrelatable relative to my lived experience.
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Mar 25, 2021 08:49
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Incredible Hulk is decent and gets an unfair rap imo. Also, Norton didn’t reprise the role because he wanted script control over The Avengers and any future Hulk movies, which they balked at. I don't think Norton wanted script control over any future Hulk projects--those were always in question because Paramount has the rights to solo Hulk movies--but he was a massive pill on-set, he insisted on rewriting much of The Incredible Hulk, and he attempted to lock Louis Leterrier out of the editing room (much as he did to Tony Kaye on American History X, although he wasn't able to force Kaye out to that extent). And, in fairness, his Hulk rewrites led to a much better movie. The reason Norton was dropped was because he wasn't easy to control, and Ike Perlmutter wanted his Marvel stars to be cheap, to show up to work, read their lines as written and do the publicity stuff they were required to do. Norton didn't check any of those boxes, so he was fired and replaced with Mark Ruffalo. And Ruffalo's fine, if unremarkable, as the Hulk, I just really liked Norton's take more. And, yes, The Incredible Hulk gets a really unfairly bad rap, and I'm glad that they brought William Hurt back as General Ross in later movies; I say that as someone who doesn't even really like William Hurt in general. As a whole, the movie is unfairly maligned, and I don't understand the complaint about the ending being "two CGI monsters fighting each other." Like, okay, what sci-fi movie doesn't have some CGI stuff fighting other CGI stuff? In any event, it's one of the few Marvel Studios movies I generally like because you can tell it's made with a lot of love, and it doesn't have the assembly-line feel of a lot of later-era Marvel movies. Geo Fixer posted:Honestly what was Norton thinking? that marvel would just bow to his demands because he was technically the best known actor the mcu had back in 2008? Norton's always had an over-inflated view of himself. But, to be fair (to be fairrrrrrrr), the first Iron Man was a complete moonshot for Marvel, and the company would have gone bankrupt if the movie had bombed. Norton was pretty much slumming it when he made Incredible Hulk for peanuts back in 2007. Timby fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Mar 25, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 08:53
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I watched Hulk for the first time a few weeks ago, and it has that same ugly, dark quality that Ang Lee's Hulk did. It's fine but it feels very out of place next to the brighter, more quippy films in the rest of phase 1. I like Norton well enough but I don't think he was a particularly good Bruce Banner. He's way too intense in everything he does, while Ruffalo sells the "desperately keeping it all buried under the surface" angle. Guardians 1 and 2 are genuinely fantasic films that I'd happy watch in any setting. Most of the rest I enjoy in the context of watching a big spectacle MCU film and the way they fit into the greater whole. They manage feel like an 'event' every time, which is pretty impressive after 23 films. e: I'd put both Iron Man 3 and Thor 1 in the 'hero loses their powers' camp, but they're both relatively well handled in that regard. stev fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Mar 25, 2021 |
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Mar 25, 2021 10:28
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Timby posted:I don't think they're all the same, per se, but they do follow a formula, and they do have an unfortunate tendency to devote a decent chunk of their runtime to saying, "By the way, don't forget to check out the next Marvel Studios film, coming to a theater near you in six months!" And they absolutely do have a "house style" that is pretty hard to ignore, and directors have said that when you're working with Marvel Studios, you're working in their machine and that's just part of the cost of doing business. But then again, this is why I just largely ignore the Marvel Studios movies. I like Iron Man 1 and 3, I like The Incredible Hulk, I generally like Winter Soldier (although I have issues with it and The First Avenger, most notably in that Cap's reasons for loyalty to Bucky are far more told than shown; prior to Bucky falling off the train in First Avenger we don't see a ton of them being bosom buddies) and the first Guardians, I thought Ragnarok was mostly okay and the two Ant-Man movies are perfectly inoffensive background noise. Otherwise, though, I just ignore the Marvel movies unless they happen to be on TV or something or someone has rented one; they really just don't do anything for me, though Iron Man 3 is an annual watch. Is this really still true? In Phase 3 and 4, they've brought in Ryan Coogler, Taika Waititi, Chloe Zhao and Destin Daniel Cretton, who all had varying degrees of success before coming in. Coogler has actually signed an exclusivity deal with Disney and Zhao commended them for letting her make Eternals her way. It's definitely true that Marvel's in-house previs team does a lot of the work, which gives people like Lucrecia Martel space to dunk on them (though this ignores the fact that they thought to talk to Martel in the first place), but it seems like this argument is leftover from when it took Edgar Wright ten years to not make Ant-Man.
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Mar 25, 2021 10:49
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Having never really looking into her origin too much beyond the bare basics, it suddenly occurs to me: is the reason Rogue stops being a piece of poo poo and becomes a hero due to absorbing Carol's personality as well as her powers? Is Rogue really Rogue at this point? Did she genuinely change and want to be a better person or was it a combination of Carol's heroic nature and Xavier doing his thang trying to sort the mess out that altered her way of thinking, and she was effectively changed against her will?
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Mar 25, 2021 13:41
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live with fruit posted:Is this really still true? In Phase 3 and 4, they've brought in Ryan Coogler, Taika Waititi, Chloe Zhao and Destin Daniel Cretton, who all had varying degrees of success before coming in. Coogler has actually signed an exclusivity deal with Disney and Zhao commended them for letting her make Eternals her way. It's definitely true that Marvel's in-house previs team does a lot of the work, which gives people like Lucrecia Martel space to dunk on them (though this ignores the fact that they thought to talk to Martel in the first place), but it seems like this argument is leftover from when it took Edgar Wright ten years to not make Ant-Man. By all accounts Marvel still lets you know you are playing with their toys, but if your vision agrees with theirs you'll get tremendous latitude. Which honestly isn't too too different from any other studio. I think where Marvel's gotten better is in finding directors and writers who they mesh with, but even now you still have situations like Derrickson walking away from Doctor Strange 2.
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Mar 25, 2021 13:50
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live with fruit posted:Is this really still true? In Phase 3 and 4, they've brought in Ryan Coogler, Taika Waititi, Chloe Zhao and Destin Daniel Cretton, who all had varying degrees of success before coming in. Coogler has actually signed an exclusivity deal with Disney and Zhao commended them for letting her make Eternals her way. It's definitely true that Marvel's in-house previs team does a lot of the work, which gives people like Lucrecia Martel space to dunk on them (though this ignores the fact that they thought to talk to Martel in the first place), but it seems like this argument is leftover from when it took Edgar Wright ten years to not make Ant-Man. yeah we discussed this earlier up thread but I was like "the action in Black Panther is bad, Coogler can't direct action" and then it turns out "no Coogler has great action credits, its just that Disney needs things to look a certain way." Anyone who doesn't think Marvel movies have a formula is in denial, I'm sorry, but they've done the "Hero is cast into self doubt about their responsibilities and demonstrates overcoming that self-doubt by fighting a weird mirror version of themselves who has roughly the same powers" like at least 15 times.
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Mar 25, 2021 13:54
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Bust Rodd posted:
This is true of all superhero movies and the majority of comic arcs though.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:08
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stev posted:This is true of all superhero movies and the majority of comic arcs though. yeah... but what total % of superhero movies IN EXISTENCE are Marvel movies? Isn't... isn't it their fault at this point? Endgame has shown us, conclusively, that Superhero movies will be whatever they want them to be, it doesn't matter, they can be wartime space operas or they can be gritty fantasy comedy action thrillers or both, flipping back and forth every 20 minutes for 3 hours! The Tim Burton Batman films, for example, are not this. Batman is never in doubt in those movies, he never gives up the cape and gets sad, he just keeps being Batman. Look at Spider-Man (Raimi)! I personally think that Spider-Man 2 starts this trend, and every director watched that movie and was like "oh, this is it, this is the best comic book movie of all time, lets just remake this for the next 40 years" and then Marvel starts 4 years ish later with iron Man.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:20
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Bust Rodd posted:yeah we discussed this earlier up thread but I was like "the action in Black Panther is bad, Coogler can't direct action" and then it turns out "no Coogler has great action credits, its just that Disney needs things to look a certain way." Black Panther is definitely one of the weakest MCU movies when it comes to special effects/action scenes, which is even more egregious considering that it's in Phase 3, but it's also one of the most popular MCU movies (if not just straight up the most popular) because of everything Coogler did bring to the table. It's not about the formula, it's what these directors do with the formula.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:26
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Is Logan ever coming to Disney+?
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Mar 25, 2021 14:51
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Thundercracker posted:Is Logan ever coming to Disney+? Since they have Deadpool and loving Die Hard on there I don't see how they can justify not having it. Unless they want to keep the character of Wolverine pure and innocent for the upcoming MCU Xmen.
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Mar 25, 2021 14:54
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Logan is on Disney+ in Germany on Star.
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Mar 25, 2021 15:03
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Surprised that in the entire conversation about the worst Marvel movies, no one brought up Age of Ultron.
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Mar 25, 2021 15:15
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It's so bad we've erased it from our memories.
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Mar 25, 2021 15:17
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stev posted:Since they have Deadpool and loving Die Hard on there I don't see how they can justify not having it. Unless they want to keep the character of Wolverine pure and innocent for the upcoming MCU Xmen. Uh, in what country does Disney+ have R rated movies?
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Mar 25, 2021 15:47
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Doctor Nutt posted:Uh, in what country does Disney+ have R rated movies? They're in the 'Star' section outside the US which I think is basically the equivalent of Hulu, which we don't get.
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Mar 25, 2021 15:51
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Doctor Nutt posted:Uh, in what country does Disney+ have R rated movies? In European countries Disney+ has Star+ on their menu. So I imagine that for many is just an addition to D+ and not something entirely different. stev posted:They're in the 'Star' section outside the US which I think is basically the equivalent of Hulu, which we don't get. Yeah. In Latin America Star will come completely independent of Disney+ WHICH many of us are hating. 
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Mar 25, 2021 15:54
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Huh, that's wild. Wonder why that's only an outside the US, honestly if I could pay a little bit more and get a more robust fleshed out streaming service from disney + I might actually be able to cancel one of the others I have and not feel like I'm just paying a piecemeal cable bill.
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Mar 25, 2021 16:04
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Doctor Nutt posted:Huh, that's wild. Wonder why that's only an outside the US, honestly if I could pay a little bit more and get a more robust fleshed out streaming service from disney + I might actually be able to cancel one of the others I have and not feel like I'm just paying a piecemeal cable bill. Being able to go to the Star+ section and watch the "grown ups" movies and TV shows, without having to entirely switch apps (or webpages) sounds amazing. I don't know why they don't want to implement something like that in this part of the world.
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Mar 25, 2021 16:21
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Desperado Bones posted:Being able to go to the Star+ section and watch the "grown ups" movies and TV shows, without having to entirely switch apps (or webpages) sounds amazing. I don't know why they don't want to implement something like that in this part of the world. In reality my spouse and I are basically sucked into at minimum the d+, netflix, amazon, and paramount + ecosystems for various shows/sporting events but it's mostly the original content that's getting us. Which I think still puts us under a traditional cable package in our area but only just barely if you factor in the internet bill (but I am in an area with centurylink fiber so at least I'm not getting hosed by comcast).
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Mar 25, 2021 17:00
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Sammus posted:So, everyone is bagging on Thor 2 and Iron Man 2, and not unjustly, because they're not good marvel movies. But the people calling them the worst of the marvel movies are just flat out wrong. The Incredible Hulk holds that title. A MCU movie so bad they couldn't get the star to come back and it feels like everyone forgot it exists. That movie is better than both Thor 2 and Iron Man 2. They’re all bad though but let’s be real here
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Mar 25, 2021 17:22
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