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I quit building archers proper and just build javelin throwers now. Two Lvl 11 Duelist throwers with Adrenaline and barbarian weapons just straight delete Chosen, kill 3 goblins a turn, and get the morale break chain rolling versus orcs. Use throwing axes versus ancient undead. Only time I miss bows is versus Hexen, which are basically pointless to fight and you can just ignore for the entirety of the game. Along with Lindwurms and Schrats.
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Feb 19, 2021 20:27
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Toozler posted:I quit building archers proper and just build javelin throwers now. Two Lvl 11 Duelist throwers with Adrenaline and barbarian weapons just straight delete Chosen, kill 3 goblins a turn, and get the morale break chain rolling versus orcs. Use throwing axes versus ancient undead. That's the conventional meta these days yeah - but I still like being able to delete Man With An Arbalest (and his nephew, Man With A Handgun) more or less at will.
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Feb 19, 2021 21:17
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Did disarm get nerfed again? I was aware of the one disarm per round change, what else happened?
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Feb 19, 2021 21:21
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Donkringel posted:Did disarm get nerfed again? I was aware of the one disarm per round change, what else happened?
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Feb 19, 2021 22:32
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Toozler posted:I quit building archers proper and just build javelin throwers now. Two Lvl 11 Duelist throwers with Adrenaline and barbarian weapons just straight delete Chosen, kill 3 goblins a turn, and get the morale break chain rolling versus orcs. Use throwing axes versus ancient undead. To chime in here, I have traditionally used dedicated archers. They're just fun, they fit with the archetype of a high-medieval company and it's cool to snipe necromancers/hexen or enemy ranged units. With that dedicated role I have space for Fearsome, Overwhelm+Relentless and even some extra damage perks or Recover. I then started experimenting with dedicated throwers and found, as you did, that the damage is insane. But my build didn't have space for Overwhelm+ Relentless and I missed the ability to snipe. I wasn't really comfortable having ~2 of each and swapping them out, if felt like a waste of slots in the company. Even though throwing axes should make them fine against Ancient Dead, there are a lot of other fights where I didn't like having ranged guys at all - Sea of Tents or big Unhold mobs are a pain when you need to constantly keep enemies from pushing/throwing their way to your squishy ranged guys. My solution was hybrid Archer/Throwers. I had to give up Overwhelm/Relentless, but I figure that was more of a vanity pick - after all you're only applying Overwhelm when you can't just kill the thing you're targeting. Perk List: Student, Bullseye, Quick Hands, Bags & Belts, Bow Mastery, Throwing Mastery, Nimble, Berserk, Duellist, Killing Frenzy, Fearsome. What I am really missing here is Recover and/or Executioner. The options I'd consider changing are Bags & Belts or Fearsome. But it's a pretty well rounded unit, I can take 2-4 (probably no more than 3) in a company and feel like I'm covered for range but still have space for all the different frontline types. In the future I want to experiment with a Gunner/Thrower, which would be very similar but with Crossbow/Gun instead of Bow Mastery (obviously) and maybe fit Overwhelm+Relentless instead of Bullseye & Bags & Belts.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:43
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Donkringel posted:Did disarm get nerfed again? I was aware of the one disarm per round change, what else happened? Sorry for the double post - they also further increased the to-hit penalty.
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Feb 19, 2021 22:43
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Several human enemy types; Nomads specifically plus others, will just pickup their weapon and swing once or even twice after disarmed. its kinda frustrating similar to taunt in that it used to be a guaranteed and now its a dice roll
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Feb 19, 2021 23:40
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Sjs00 posted:Several human enemy types; Nomads specifically plus others, will just pickup their weapon and swing once or even twice after disarmed. its kinda frustrating similar to taunt in that it used to be a guaranteed and now its a dice roll This is any enemy with Quick Hands. Quick Hands lets a disarmed unit put its weapon on its belt for free, then re-equip the weapon for 4 AP and still have 5 AP left over to attack with. Recently the devs changed it so the AI was smart enough to use this trick as well as the player. Disarming a unit like this will still have an effect because it robs them of 4 AP, so they can only attack you once instead of twice for instance, but it makes it less effective. Genghis Cohen posted:To chime in here, I have traditionally used dedicated archers. They're just fun, they fit with the archetype of a high-medieval company and it's cool to snipe necromancers/hexen or enemy ranged units. With that dedicated role I have space for Fearsome, Overwhelm+Relentless and even some extra damage perks or Recover. I build similar archer/thrower hybrids these days. I think fearsome is a bit of a waste on them because they're pure damage-dealers and with duelist and heavy javelins they're almost always dealing enough damage to proc a regular morale check anyway. Ideally a thrower will be killing whatever they hit, which means fearsome is less useful, and even if the enemy doesn't die they might be losing morale from the big HP loss anyway, so I don't think the bonus resolve penalty is needed.
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Feb 19, 2021 23:52
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Yeah disarm doesn't actually make an enemy drop their weapon, right? It's basically just a debuff/status effect.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:02
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Sjs00 posted:Acknowledged that javelins are better damage wise but consume more resources. Why do your throwers need a shield? They’re in the back line. Eventually they’ll have duelist as well which doesn’t work with a shield. I build all my throwers as hybrid archer throwers - they each get a bow, a stack of arrows and two stacks of javelins. Trying to snipe bandit archers early on is a mistake. You’ll rarely hit, and bandit archers don’t have the damage output or accuracy to do serious damage. If you focus on using your throwers/archers to attack the enemies they have the greatest chance of hitting, you’ll kill them faster, save yourself damage in the long run, and speed up the inevitable rout - once you start that snowball of enemy morale collapse the bandit archers will flee.
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Feb 20, 2021 02:06
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nachos are the best beast to fight but they all suck
Sjs00 fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Feb 20, 2021 |
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Feb 20, 2021 02:19
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Re: archer/thrower stuff, yeah, that's very interesting. If I dropped Fearsome and Bags & Belts from my build, what would you guys choose? Executioner? Recover? My issue with dropping Bags & Belts isn't the ammo running out, it's the space for a last resort melee weapon (I use a Firelance) - no room for Footwork in the build and a lot of the time my frontliners would be rotating them into further danger, so they can get stuck in base contact. I suppose B&B is also a small fatigue boost. Sjs00 posted:nachos are the best beast to fight but they all suck They're a cool bit of game balance though. Risky in the early game, then you can easily take them with mail armour and spears/swords, then they start appearing fully feasted. That swallow-your-fighter thing is a real game-changer. Unless you have a fully endgame company, they can still be a threat if you let them feast and suddenly three of your best frontliners are out of the equation. So when I see 26 Nachzehrers pop up, it's not exactly a hard enemy mob, but they do need careful handling.
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Feb 20, 2021 18:48
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Genghis Cohen posted:That swallow-your-fighter thing is a real game-changer. It's really not though ? If anything, I'm more afraid of type 3 ghouls slashing at my guys than eating them - sure I temporarily lose a guy, but they don't hurt anyone "for real" and it's their full turn. And I'm more afraid of massed type 2s than type 3s - *those* can't waste a turn eating a dude, they just loving kill them. Genghis Cohen posted:Re: archer/thrower stuff, yeah, that's very interesting. Recover for sure, then Adrenaline. It's *really* good on throwers. As for the ammo, just make your other bros carry spare quivers, they can drop them as need be. But really, it's a rare fight where you can chew through 10 throwables and 14 arrows and *still* have to actually work.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:02
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Instead of fearsome and bullseye you might consider dodge and relentless, which synergize nicely as defensive perks (useful for if orcs barge through your lines for example, or to keep throwers safe against arbalesters and other big ranged damage dealers) and also mean that they're usually throwing javelins before dangerous enemies get to move. They won't directly impact the damage dealt like Executioner for example, but they provide good utility in other ways. I think Bullseye isn't very important on throwers because you're usually attacking whoever's closest to you anyway to get maximum damage.
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Feb 20, 2021 19:04
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vyelkin posted:Instead of fearsome and bullseye you might consider dodge and relentless, which synergize nicely as defensive perks (useful for if orcs barge through your lines for example, or to keep throwers safe against arbalesters and other big ranged damage dealers) and also mean that they're usually throwing javelins before dangerous enemies get to move. They won't directly impact the damage dealt like Executioner for example, but they provide good utility in other ways. I think Bullseye isn't very important on throwers because you're usually attacking whoever's closest to you anyway to get maximum damage. I see your point but I'm basically ok with not taking any resilience/defensive perks. I would completely agree on Bullseye for a pure thrower but I wanted to keep the Necromancer-sniping element of a pure archer. I completely admit it might not be an optimal strategy, I just find it satisfying. Kobal2 posted:It's really not though ? If anything, I'm more afraid of type 3 ghouls slashing at my guys than eating them - sure I temporarily lose a guy, but they don't hurt anyone "for real" and it's their full turn. And I'm more afraid of massed type 2s than type 3s - *those* can't waste a turn eating a dude, they just loving kill them. For Nachzehrers, it's trivial when one guy gets swallowed and his 3 mates get a free chance to cut him loose. It swings around when 3 guys get swallowed and then there's one left in that part of the field, he lacks the damage to kill fully feasted Nachzehrers quickly on his own, so then he gets clawed to death and it snowballs. Adrenaline/Recover, I think was patched a couple revisions ago - you can no longer combo the two. Or do you mean that you find Adrenaline worth it even after those changes?
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Feb 20, 2021 21:36
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Genghis Cohen posted:Adrenaline/Recover, I think was patched a couple revisions ago - you can no longer combo the two. Or do you mean that you find Adrenaline worth it even after those changes? Yeah, the latter. Being able to throw 3-5 javelins at point blank range before any melee roll has even happened is really good in general, and it's especially good against gobbos. And after that you can recover, then do the same on a flank or charge Man With A Crossbow or something like that. To be honest I've become a big fan of Adrenaline in general ever since I've watched FilthyRobot use and abuse it in his Davkul run, it can be really clutch in any DPS race fight (and it's all the better the more grunts on your team have it).
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Feb 20, 2021 21:46
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If I want to operate a meatgrinder company with only a few guys I care about what's my best bet? I have been doing almost exclusively cultists since I started playing a few days ago but was thinking manhunters might be another good option? I'm definitely not a fan of having to care when some random goon gets murdered in one hit like I would be with a standard origin. I like the (original) XCOM style gameplay of having rookies in the front with all the crap gear and vets with all the good poo poo in the back.
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Mar 4, 2021 19:38
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Manhunters is definitely the one you want. You ever capture new
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Mar 4, 2021 19:48
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I take bags&belts on my throwers at least in endgame because once the enemy scaling hits its limit you'll go through 3+ stacks of throwing weapons in a single encounter, easy. You could probably fudge it and just take more damage-related perks like executioner since even without crippling strikes I've found throwing weapons to have a very high chance of proccing injuries. Archers went from my default to being niche- like sniping necromancers and that's about it. Once your throwers get killing frenzy spooled up they start getting kills every round.
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Mar 4, 2021 20:37
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dogstile posted:Manhunters is definitely the one you want. You ever capture new Oh yeah, this is the good stuff.  I think that would have been a run-ending battle on any other origin since I only play ironman but somehow all 3 of my regular guys survived.  Then I get ganked by 18 nomads not even 2 weeks into the run while traveling to buy more slaves and they all leave in rage from not enough slaves / "losing a battle" 
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Mar 4, 2021 22:24
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Yeah, manhunters only like fighting if they have 2 slaves per every non slave.
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Mar 5, 2021 11:58
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dogstile posted:Yeah, manhunters only like fighting if they have 2 slaves per every non slave. Oh I know. It's just the wipe happened far up north so by the time I got down south the game was already over. And I refuse to fire anyone. Everyone in my company dies in glorious combat.
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Mar 7, 2021 19:49
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Sos the switch eh?
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Mar 13, 2021 01:43
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Junkie Disease posted:Sos the switch eh? Yeah i know this thread is mostly PC players but if anybody here has the switch version, do you know if there is a way to turn off the DLC? I bought the complete edition and it comes with all of it turned on automatically and the little icons only lead to the Eshop to "download" them. I think trying to parse a game like this with all the extra content on can't be helping me 
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Mar 23, 2021 07:41
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The Shame Boy posted:Yeah i know this thread is mostly PC players but if anybody here has the switch version, do you know if there is a way to turn off the DLC? I bought the complete edition and it comes with all of it turned on automatically and the little icons only lead to the Eshop to "download" them. I think trying to parse a game like this with all the extra content on can't be helping me The game is vastly better with the DLC turned on.
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Mar 23, 2021 14:08
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I could see dropping the lindworms, as they don't really seem to add much besides an awkward difficulty spike.
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Mar 23, 2021 14:20
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THE BAR posted:I could see dropping the lindworms, as they don't really seem to add much besides an awkward difficulty spike. What are you talking about?! They add an lindwurm armor piece that protects you from the lindwurm acid blo- oh hmm problem of its own making huh?
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Mar 23, 2021 14:54
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If you get lucky Lindwurms drop stuff that's worth a lot of gold that might almost cover the repair tools, temple visits, and hiring costs of fighting them! Probably my two least favorite fights are Hexen and Lindwurms.
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Mar 23, 2021 15:05
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Do armorers sell named shields? Can "legendary piece of armor" tavern rumours be shields or is it armor only? My map is bad but I've been stuck on this ambition for, like, ever
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Mar 23, 2021 17:15
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Lindwurms are fine IMO (just have one tank bro lock them in place while the rest shoot it/poke it with 10ft poles) Trolls can go gently caress themselves. Trolls with Hexen backup singers are one of the rudest thing a video game has ever done to me, personally.
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Mar 23, 2021 17:17
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tomanton posted:Do armorers sell named shields? Can "legendary piece of armor" tavern rumours be shields or is it armor only? My map is bad but I've been stuck on this ambition for, like, ever In my experience named shields are a large chunk of what drops from random camps.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:25
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Fabricated posted:If you get lucky Lindwurms drop stuff that's worth a lot of gold that might almost cover the repair tools, temple visits, and hiring costs of fighting them! Kraken.
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Mar 23, 2021 21:40
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tomanton posted:Do armorers sell named shields? Can "legendary piece of armor" tavern rumours be shields or is it armor only? My map is bad but I've been stuck on this ambition for, like, ever I do not recall ever seeing a shield in a store, or getting one from a tavern rumor. I'd recommend Bounty Hunter and Orc camps and 
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Mar 23, 2021 22:11
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Southpaugh posted:In my experience named shields are a large chunk of what drops from random camps. I have never gotten a named shield in my 101 hours of playtime lol
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Mar 23, 2021 23:11
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Babe Magnet posted:I have never gotten a named shield in my 101 hours of playtime lol Lucky bastard. They're a dud in my book cause you've always got to worry about them getting broken as soon as you face orcs or barbarians.
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Mar 23, 2021 23:57
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Babe Magnet posted:I have never gotten a named shield in my 101 hours of playtime lol You're so fortunate, I had 6 of them at one point.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:06
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One of the worst moments in the game is when you see an orc champion so you attack their camp and they appear out of the fog of war and you see that they're just carrying yet another terrible unique orc shield.
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Mar 24, 2021 00:16
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vyelkin posted:One of the worst moments in the game is when you see an orc champion so you attack their camp and they appear out of the fog of war and you see that they're just carrying yet another terrible unique orc shield. Lol. True there. Maybe even worse than doing a really intense Sea of Tents or Nomad city and not getting anything. Just salt in the wound.
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Mar 24, 2021 20:52
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I'm thinking of having another go at this. How is the Legends Mod? I'm interested if it adds more stuff, and not pointless "realistic" busywork.
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Mar 25, 2021 12:24
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it adds a ton of mechanics from randomized skill trees, female classes, Wizards, shanks, and yes, a very involved 'camp' mechanic; and a very 'layered ' armor system that is literally layering armor pieces. hth
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Mar 25, 2021 12:29
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