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NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






victrix posted:

I haven't done an int caster ds run in an age, what's a good setup and stuff to look out for here in 2?

I'd like to blow up all the things with sparkles, bonus if I can still stab things occasionally.
Rush for Tseldora where you can find both the best sorcery stick in the game and (with an Ascetic) a boss soul for the Moonlight Greatsword.

As for spells you may want to look up the obscure stuff, but Huntsman's Copse gives out Soul Spear (more if you ascetic) and the same boss soul you can use for MLGS also works for Crystal Soul Spear.

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John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

Oscar Wild posted:

See I beat Senh and I feel like I got lucky with the attack combinations, it did the flame ahead like 3 times. I dont think I'm actually a better player after beating it, just that I baited attacks in a way that the RNG gave me an easy win. I dunno, I didn't like Midir either. I think I like bloodbourne humans instead.

This has always been my annoyance with Fume Knight. Totally different fight depending on how often he does the vertical slam and keeps his sword cracked.

Charles Bukowski
Aug 26, 2003

Taskmaster 2023 Second Place Winner

Grimey Drawer
The first time I solo'd the Fume Knight I felt I had finally gotten gud.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
Same, also for Alonne.I actually finished off my NG run by soloing Alonne

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time

axolotl farmer posted:

Shrine of Amana is terrible. Homing missile mages that aggro from across the map, while stuck in a swamp.

Not groovy.

Eh, it's just a place to punish people that refuse to use either ranged weapons or cover on approach. You can take paths to mages that only aggro one mage at a time. You can use a shield with a high magical block. You can just shoot them with bows from out of their range. You can bring a torch to instantly aggro the underwater lurker dudes. There's a ton of different approaches to shrine of amana that simplify it. Yeah, it's rough but it only punishes lizard-brain players.

Crystalgate
Dec 26, 2012

victrix posted:

I haven't done an int caster ds run in an age, what's a good setup and stuff to look out for here in 2?

I'd like to blow up all the things with sparkles, bonus if I can still stab things occasionally.
I would go for Ice Rapier and Blue Flame. IR in right hand and BF in left hand, then powerstance them. IR is considerable stronger than BF, but two of them are awful in a powerstance and with one BF, you can enchant both weapons at once. Using two BF is more for a character setup with low intelligence. Also, do not magic infuse the BF, you take a too big drop in physical AR for it to be worth it. You want the Staff of Wisdom found in Tseldora as well. With these three tools, you have powerful sorceries, but can also deal a lot of melee damage without a high str and dex investment. If you want even less str and dex investment, go with just the IR and don't bother with powerstancing. You can make a rush for it as soon as you get 1M soul memory, which you should get long before lighting all four primal fires.

Also, I like to respawn the scorpion girl with a bonfire ascetic and kill her again, doing so makes her drop a ring with +3 spell slots. She is easy if you get the help of Manscorpion Tark. Not that she is very hard without him in the first place, but if you respawn her early in the run, you are a bit undergeared for a new game+ boss.

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

Frida Call Me posted:

Eh, it's just a place to punish people that refuse to use either ranged weapons or cover on approach.
not really. you can roll thru their spells just fine

also there is a reason that the boss soul obtained immediately before shrine of amana makes a shield with really high magic absorption

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

IronicDongz posted:

not really. you can roll thru their spells just fine

also there is a reason that the boss soul obtained immediately before shrine of amana makes a shield with really high magic absorption
And it's convenient to use for every build


I'm playing a Sorceror right now and my biggest issue is spell variety in the pure magic department. Everything but the basic projectiles sucks rear end. Soul Shower, Vortex, even the soulmasses are terrible and can't compete with just pumping enemies full of GHS. If I could be bothered to Ascetic for more Soul Spears, it would be even clearer that there's no reason to use anything else because that even has AOE (pierce) which would be the only argument for the others.

At least the MLGS owns and nobody in PvP can deal with the ultra delayed R2s!

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G
Made it to the Fume knight. This level was really fantastic. I really liked the enemies, the level design is probably the best in this game. Just a joy.

I expect the fume knight is gonna be a brick wall. Should I get naked again like sinh and just dodge? I don't think I can tank these ultra great sword hits.

NGDBSS
Dec 30, 2009






Not necessarily naked, but yes you can reliably dodge him if you pay attention to his tells. In fact this was the fight that got me to start dodging all the time in DS2. Otherwise those sword swipes will bash in even the best shields over time.

Double Plus Undead
Dec 24, 2010
Eh, some people swear by a high stability shield for Fume Knight. Rebel's Greatshield was what finally turned the corner on him for a friend of mine. That being said you can absolutely beat him just with dodges-- I would say don't try to utterly change your playstyle to beat him because that will make it harder than just learning his moves and how to deal with them.

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G
Couple of trys and I'm gonna just bait that big rear end sword. He's very slow to recover. This shouldn't be that bad.

Lol that overhead smash tracks. That's funny.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

I wanted to grab the Stone ring, so I headed back to Things betwixt, and started shooting poison arrows at the Shrek down on the beach. Forgot and the second one who punched me, rolled over and flattened me. Went back, and beach Shrek was gone. Killed the other one and no ring.

Burnt an ascetic and killed both Shreks. Still no Stone ring. I am out of luck for this cycle?

GodFish
Oct 10, 2012

We're your first, last, and only line of defense. We live in secret. We exist in shadow.

And we dress in black.
The stone ring is on the ogre on the other side of the firekeeper hut. The path is kinda by the waterfall.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
https://clips.twitch.tv/AnnoyingMildReindeerTwitchRaid-Pa2-w-5v9mOzGf0v

Oscar Wild
Apr 11, 2006

It's good to be a G

Proclick. loving lol

Edit:reported for mod sas

Oscar Wild fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 21, 2021

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Crystalgate posted:

I would go for Ice Rapier and Blue Flame. IR in right hand and BF in left hand, then powerstance them. IR is considerable stronger than BF, but two of them are awful in a powerstance and with one BF, you can enchant both weapons at once. Using two BF is more for a character setup with low intelligence. Also, do not magic infuse the BF, you take a too big drop in physical AR for it to be worth it. You want the Staff of Wisdom found in Tseldora as well. With these three tools, you have powerful sorceries, but can also deal a lot of melee damage without a high str and dex investment. If you want even less str and dex investment, go with just the IR and don't bother with powerstancing.
To add to this, Magic infusing the IR (using a Faintstone, NOT a Magic Stone), both makes for an abnormally strong weapon even on characters without much INT investment, which gets nutty on a high-INT build, but also considerably strengthens the Soul Spear-style special attack to the point that it does around the same damage as the real thing, which again will be amplified even more on a high-INT character.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

GodFish posted:

The stone ring is on the ogre on the other side of the firekeeper hut. The path is kinda by the waterfall.

Ah, that explains it. Thanks! :tipshat:

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Paracelsus posted:

To add to this, Magic infusing the IR (using a Faintstone, NOT a Magic Stone), both makes for an abnormally strong weapon even on characters without much INT investment, which gets nutty on a high-INT build, but also considerably strengthens the Soul Spear-style special attack to the point that it does around the same damage as the real thing, which again will be amplified even more on a high-INT character.

Leo Ring counterhit R2s are so loving illegal in PvP, it's honestly disgusting

Aipsh
Feb 17, 2006


GLUPP SHITTO FAN CLUB PRESIDENT

Wait he’s streaming again? How much have I missed? :negative:

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
Dark souls 1 and the first third or so of ds2

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

He'll be heading to the castle on Tuesday if you wanna join in

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
Made a quick highlight reel of my PvP shenanigans during Return to Drangleic. I've got a handful of other fun clips that I might mash together or might just upload separately as lil bits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tG_lZr7bk

Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 23, 2021

Crystalgate
Dec 26, 2012
How effective is dual cestus really? I'm trying it out, but so far it does not seem that great. The problem seems to be the subtractive defense system, I hit fast, but weak, but the enemy defense reduced the weak hits even further. I can see that I could become better later on though.

A second question I have is how do you make a miracle build good? Miracles seem to be very back loaded. The number of charges for many miracles are heavily attunement dependent, meaning you get almost no charges early. Further, sorceries tend to follow the formula [catalyst magic atk]*X+Y whereas miracles has Y being zero, making them much weaker for an early build. Sure, I can heal a lot, but estus + life gem is usually enough. I do also not see any good cheap lightning weapons, the Dragonslayer Spear for example, has a high stat requirement and offers little that a lightning imbues Pate's Spear doesn't offer unless you combine it with a repair sorcery.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

Crystalgate posted:

How effective is dual cestus really? I'm trying it out, but so far it does not seem that great. The problem seems to be the subtractive defense system, I hit fast, but weak, but the enemy defense reduced the weak hits even further. I can see that I could become better later on though.

My secret is the stone ring. +30 poise damage per hit combined with the quick attacks means you can stagger or even stunlock a lot of enemies and players :getin:

And if you're power stancing, the L1/LB attack has a really small windup time so you can get in that crucial first hit and possibly poisebreak them to interrupt their attack, you can see me doing that to a few people in my video, it's most obvious in my fight with Faulkner at 2:13. He goes in to strike with his dual greatswords, but I easily punch him during the windup, breaking his attack.

Son of Thunderbeast fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 25, 2021

LazyMaybe
Aug 18, 2013

oouagh

Crystalgate posted:

How effective is dual cestus really? I'm trying it out, but so far it does not seem that great. The problem seems to be the subtractive defense system, I hit fast, but weak, but the enemy defense reduced the weak hits even further. I can see that I could become better later on though.
not anywhere near as good as people will try to convince you. your damage output and range will both be lower than most other builds.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Crystalgate posted:

How effective is dual cestus really? I'm trying it out, but so far it does not seem that great. The problem seems to be the subtractive defense system, I hit fast, but weak, but the enemy defense reduced the weak hits even further. I can see that I could become better later on though.

A second question I have is how do you make a miracle build good? Miracles seem to be very back loaded. The number of charges for many miracles are heavily attunement dependent, meaning you get almost no charges early. Further, sorceries tend to follow the formula [catalyst magic atk]*X+Y whereas miracles has Y being zero, making them much weaker for an early build. Sure, I can heal a lot, but estus + life gem is usually enough. I do also not see any good cheap lightning weapons, the Dragonslayer Spear for example, has a high stat requirement and offers little that a lightning imbues Pate's Spear doesn't offer unless you combine it with a repair sorcery.

Dual cestus works great but you need your scaling stats and weapon upgrades to really make it shine.

As for miracles, you kinda don't. Lightning spear and emit force were super good when the game first came out but they've since nerfed most attacking miracles into the ground.

skasion
Feb 13, 2012

Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?
Dual cestus is a comfortably game-beating build with the exception of a couple types of enemies that the moveset has trouble hitting. Just make sure to wear stone ring for more stagger, keep both weapons upgraded and pump both strength and dex. The relatively low damage is usually counterbalanced by the fact that it has the best physical damage type (blunt) and can put out loads of hits with the L1 combo.

Imo, it is not particularly worth making a faith-only caster build in SOTFS. It can be done but it is easier to get a strong hexer or pyromancer. There are good buff miracles but the damage ones have almost all been nerfed hard long ago. Heavenly Thunder is the standout. The lower tier lightning spears are pretty bad. Sunlight spear, wrath of god, and blinding bolt are all strong though kind of annoying to get.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002
Another soft advantage of playing with dual caestus is it forces you to get better at the game overall. I had to learn to stop being afraid of hugging the gently caress out of enemies (and huge bosses) and got even better at rolling. I credit my dual caestus run with giving me what I needed to beat Gundyr and Vordt on my first try in DS3

betterinsodapop
Apr 4, 2004

64:3

Son of Thunderbeast posted:

Another soft advantage of playing with dual caestus is it forces you to get better at the game overall. I had to learn to stop being afraid of hugging the gently caress out of enemies (and huge bosses) and got even better at rolling. I credit my dual caestus run with giving me what I needed to beat Gundyr and Vordt on my first try in DS3
That Vordt fight was impressive. I was in chat when you beat his taint into submission.

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

Now I'm going to sing the Perry Mason theme

Heide sword is a good fast lightning weapon.

Son of Thunderbeast
Sep 21, 2002

betterinsodapop posted:

That Vordt fight was impressive. I was in chat when you beat his taint into submission.

Thanks! Yeah I remember seeing you in there :D Between beating Vordt's taint and punching a tree in its bulbous sack DS3 seems to be much hornier than 2

Heithinn Grasida
Mar 28, 2005

...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Dragonslayer spear R2s point blank do tons of damage and can feel worth it to pull off, though you have to be conservative with them. A lightning Heide spear is a monster when buffed, and the Heide sword is great too. I really enjoyed using a lightning drake blood great sword (hits hard, low stamina use, very high counter damage), but that weapon works for int too.

For spells, the only thing you’ve got is heavenly thunder, which is good, but not great. Miracles generally got savaged by nerfs. Faith can still be fun, though. The faith weapons are strong and come pretty early.

Charles Bukowski
Aug 26, 2003

Taskmaster 2023 Second Place Winner

Grimey Drawer
I would try a modded run with faith rebalancing if you want to really go all in.

Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time
Miracle build in dark souls 2 nowadays is yeah, pick a heide weapon (sword is easiest to equip) and just use healing miracles until you're around 3+million soul memory. At that point you can grab 50 attunement and 60 faith in addition to softcaps for health/stamina and enough adaptability to get to a reasonable amount of iframes. Grab the crown from fume knight to restore spell uses and then and only then can you use offensive miracles effectively. You can make a killer sunbro like this but the days of grabbing an early few casts of lightning spear to dumpster trash AND bosses are long dead.

If you want to be a caster early, the best way is hexes or sorceries. Pyromancy is pretty bad, too.

Frida Call Me fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Mar 26, 2021

Charles Bukowski
Aug 26, 2003

Taskmaster 2023 Second Place Winner

Grimey Drawer
Being able to follow up a stagger with a fastcast combustion is still satisfying for pyromancers. It does take a long time to come online though. This game doesn't even have a pyromancer starting class.

Crystalgate
Dec 26, 2012
It seems faith builds work as I expected. Well, I do have a hexer with 40 int and faith and the support miracles just happens to require a relative low faith, so I'm not really seeing the point of a faith build right now. As for a punchy build, I'm getting the impression that they are more fun than powerful, which is fair enough. I think I'll try to combine Ring of Blades +2, Flynn Ring and Sacred Oat all at once to boost it. That will be quite an investment, but perfectly doable when I tried it out on mugenmonkey.

Gully Foyle
Feb 29, 2008

Frida Call Me posted:

If you want to be a caster early, the best way is hexes or sorceries. Pyromancy is pretty bad, too.

Agreed, at least on the early game stuff. It's just odd the way that From balanced the magic systems in this game. Your basic Sorcery damage spell gets 30 uses. The basic Hex gets 20. The basic Pyromancy? 8. Not to mention that upgrades for your catalyst are unique and so your Flame can fall behind if you don't know where to find or prioritize Fire Seeds.

It is balanced out a bit by the later game Pyromancies tending to be a bit more interesting and varied. You get access to some good AoE spells, some good buffs, and the toxic effect.

whalestory
Feb 9, 2004

hey ya'll!

Pillbug
Thinking of making a new character to co-op with a friend and I really want to use the orma and reeve greatshield combo. But also was thinking faith miracles would be kinda good in co-op... but after reading about all the early game woes of faith, i'm not so sure. Would minimal faith to just get some tiny heal miracles, then pumping strength be the way to go?

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Frida Call Me
Sep 28, 2001

Boy, you gotta carry that weight
Carry that weight a long time

whalestory posted:

Thinking of making a new character to co-op with a friend and I really want to use the orma and reeve greatshield combo. But also was thinking faith miracles would be kinda good in co-op... but after reading about all the early game woes of faith, i'm not so sure. Would minimal faith to just get some tiny heal miracles, then pumping strength be the way to go?

Dex/faith is better than str/faith, imo. Heide spear is cool, poke poo poo to death. You can get a neat lightning bow from the second to last vanilla boss. Rapier is the best PVE weapon in the game, you can infuse that with lightning if you want to invest in faith later, and it scales really well on dex. You can also be a complete degenerate (like me) and infinite farm both bonfire ascetics and then skeptic spice's once you're about 75% of the way through the game. Heals don't scale on faith, so if you farm enough spices you can even cast the big boy heals with 10 faith.

Biggest takeaway is don't start as a cleric. It's way easier to start as a knight and put the faith in when needed to cast heal/great heal.

Frida Call Me fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Mar 27, 2021

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