(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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hell, even for people who are basically neo nazis like jontron, all they gotta do is go underground for a bit and pop back up and all the sycophant fans are just gonna do the downplaying work for em, and then they get like 1 million views 
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Mar 27, 2021 18:59
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Grunch Worldflower posted:Twitter should add an algorithm to detect when it looks like you're about to double down on a previous post and ask if this take is worth risking an extremely normal person scrolling through your entire post history to make a compilation of every bad post you've forgotten to delete. If anything, they’d come up with this algorithm but use it to encourage people to double down at the exact moment that would cause the thing to blow up to the maximum degree.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:00
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Saagonsa posted:Apologizing when people are acting in bad faith will do literally nothing for you, and in fact often make things worse because "you don't actually mean it/sorry isn't enough". We saw that poo poo happen on this very website not that long ago. Yeah, it's hard for me to think of a time that somebody has said something stupid, apologized and then had their apology accepted by the people who were mad at them. I'm in favor of apologizing for genuinely hurtful takes or whatever, but more often than not, an apology is immediately picked apart for being insincere or poorly-worded and it just becomes more evidence for why Person X was bad in the first place.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:01
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Criticising someone's tweet is one thing, it's a public statement of a sort. But this speculation and gossiping on what is clearly a private upset between friends is a bit weird tbh. It's none of my business how and why some content creator fell out with their friends. I don't care. It's no one else's business either. And the desire and sometimes demand to find out more and be involved to me speaks of an entitlement to someone's private life just because they're a public figure, and I don't think that's very cool.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:02
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Sydin posted:Sure, but a lot of people who get called out for horrible poo poo don't go silent to take time to reflect on what they said and did and try to be better. They do it to wait for the heat to die down and then either come back like nothing happened, or double down harder with a narrative they've spent their away time crafting like ProJared or MaximilianMus. Or as you say, just carry on bold as brass through it. I don't know how many people really have that Trump level of bullshit in their body, mind, that's a lot. At least, when it comes to the folks we post about here. People can say that there's people who'll never be satisfied with any apology, although that is kind of bad faith in and of itself. Sure, there are those folks -- but the quicker some sort of concession is made, the more it seems to be softened. Even if it's just an acknowledgement that there's certain angles you can't look at something from. Maybe then the big old statements don't need to happen. Obviously, this doesn't always happen in the heat of the moment. Which is why...well, it's hard to justify trying to post anything worthy on the damned website really. Arguing on Twitter is the worst thing to do
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Mar 27, 2021 19:02
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Sydin posted:Sure, but a lot of people who get called out for horrible poo poo don't go silent to take time to reflect on what they said and did and try to be better. They do it to wait for the heat to die down and then either come back like nothing happened, or double down harder with a narrative they've spent their away time crafting like ProJared or MaximilianMus. Oh, I don't disagree with that but I think it's a different situation. You have people laying low because of credible accusations that do so waiting for it all to blow over; and then you have people being somewhat insensitive or ignorant or sometimes just wording their tweet badly.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:03
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Lindsay was right when she said apology demands are about control. They are, especially on social media. It was probably the right call not to apologize. However, it was probably the wrong call to tell that guy to go home and get his shine box.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:04
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Libluini posted:I often feel like I can relate to Lindsay because I too am a huge idiot, abrasive rear end in a top hat and have a giant ego. If my YouTube-channel had an actual following, I would have my own swarm of Jamies telling me how much I suck. (And they would be right.) Dapper_Swindler posted:on lindsay, yeah pretty much. i agree with some of it, but the seleene post seems a little to "i have been waiting to take this tally down for years" type poo poo. some of the stuff is pretty bad but alot of it feels like navel gazing or bad faith reads. also jamie is cool, i dont fully agree with her on this but i can empathize with where she comes from and she has every right to write lindsay off. lol look I'm sorry I don't mean to be little miss cancel crusader or whatever, I'm just really sick of Ellis doing poo poo like this and never learning from it but I guess that's a moot point now that she deleted her Twitter and I've unsubscribed so whatever. Sorry if I came off kinda unhinged. I know I said I'd dropped it but this time I mean it. I've said my piece. I'll go outside and touch some grass now.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:04
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Terrible Opinions posted:Not weighing in particularly on the Lindsay stuff, but gently caress Tony Goldmark.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:05
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:If anything, they’d come up with this algorithm but use it to encourage people to double down at the exact moment that would cause the thing to blow up to the maximum degree. That's just more content for the idiots on social media thread so win/win, really.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:06
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Pachylad posted:What'd he do? I only grabbed the first name I recognised off Mara Wilsom's liked tweets relating to this current shitstorm. He's Movie Bob's number one defender, always coming to his rescue after he catches flack for endorsing eugenics for the 1000th time.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:09
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How about going "my bad" from a basic human decency perspective rather than some cold calculus of what is the best for your public image
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Mar 27, 2021 19:10
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Pachylad posted:What'd he do? I only grabbed the first name I recognised off Mara Wilsom's liked tweets relating to this current shitstorm.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:11
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Kim Justice posted:Or as you say, just carry on bold as brass through it. I don't know how many people really have that Trump level of bullshit in their body, mind, that's a lot. At least, when it comes to the folks we post about here. Tonfa posted:How about going "my bad" from a basic human decency perspective rather than some cold calculus of what is the best for your public image  i guess it's cause i don;t have a bajillion followers on the internet (and thank god for that!) but i was always a bit confused by people who go "well the Mob will never be satisfied with any apology" (besides the fact that it comes off like complaining about the 'Woke Mobs' that right wingers gripe about) because to me, it reads like a weird kinda self-fulfilling prophecy of "not apologizing because people will be mad -> people get mad because there's no apology..." 
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Mar 27, 2021 19:13
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Jamie Faith posted:lol look I'm sorry I don't mean to be little miss cancel crusader or whatever, I'm just really sick of Ellis doing poo poo like this and never learning from it but I guess that's a moot point now that she deleted her Twitter and I've unsubscribed so whatever. Sorry if I came off kinda unhinged.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:13
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Jamie Faith posted:lol look I'm sorry I don't mean to be little miss cancel crusader or whatever, I'm just really sick of Ellis doing poo poo like this and never learning from it but I guess that's a moot point now that she deleted her Twitter and I've unsubscribed so whatever. Sorry if I came off kinda unhinged. your fine. i wasnt meaning anything negative toward you or anything. everyone has their limits with content creators/people and poo poo. my issue was the Selene thread more than anything.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:15
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Terrible Opinions posted:Your response is perfectly reasonable, especially given how this very thread is full of people doing the "don't apologize because no one accepts apologies" bs. Thanks and yeah, I think this whole "Apologies are about control!" thing is a very lovely, cynical and kinda chuddy way to look at things. There have in fact, been cases where someone famous did something shifty, got called out, went "oh poo poo sorry guys, my bad" and people went "its cool  ". You just never hear about those times because that kind of thing isn't what ends up trending on twitter or get screenshots of it posted in this thread.I think for me, and a lot of people, a good sincere apology goes a long way. I mean everyone screws up. We're human. Most people want the best for others, especially if they're fans of the person in question. I don't want to cancel anyone. I'm sad when something like this happens. I just want the person in question to own up to it and say sorry. I don't think that's an unreasonable request. Sure, you get some clout chasing weirdos who just want to yell into the abyss for attention but those people are far less numerous than the people whining about cancel culture would have you believe I think. Dapper_Swindler posted:your fine. i wasnt meaning anything negative toward you or anything. everyone has their limits with content creators/people and poo poo. my issue was the Selene thread more than anything. Yeah I didn't take offense or anything, just wanted to address it lol
Jamie Faith fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 19:21
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Tonfa posted:How about going "my bad" from a basic human decency perspective rather than some cold calculus of what is the best for your public image I agree totally. I'd wanna do that. People should admit they hosed up. It's healthy. Most people don't do that really, do they? So we're always here. Sorry if my posts come off as very cynical, they're merely my two cents from all these various shitfires and thinking how someone in that position avoids them.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:26
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Clip-On Fedora posted:Lindsay was right when she said apology demands are about control. They are, especially on social media. Control is not exactly the right word for it, but a lot of calls for online accountability come from someone’s desire to see themselves acknowledged by another so that they know that that they exist, like they need that mirror of another reacting to them so that they have the reassurance of seeing themselves. So it’s always someone with a high-enough profile, but never so big that they obviously post through a publicist—because the apology doesn’t mean anything if the person isn’t seeing and reacting to you when they post. It’s often people who are marginalized or in a bad place, so I don’t mean to sound like I’m accusing people of acting in bad faith or being selfish when they do it.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:27
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Twitter just seems like the worst kind of public forum to air this stuff in. I don't know what happened between Kyle Kallgren and Lindsay Ellis because it's clearly a personal thing but I don't know what calling Lindsay out on Twitter for it in the context of the current drama is really meant to accomplish. You make a public statement about a private matter and all it does is rile up the mob looking for gossip. It just feels like a knock on effect where any flub of record of a fuckup is now turned into a pile up.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 19:27
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Kim Justice posted:I agree totally. I'd wanna do that. People should admit they hosed up. It's healthy. Yeah that makes a lot of sense and I'm not singling it out for a takedown or anything. I simply feel like online discussions veer into this kind of analytics and personal gain thing often - which can make observers and onlookers unconsciously take on that mindset - and periodically it's worth calling back to that hey, just do the humane thing, make the world better for everyone.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:31
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I think if you were asked to apologize a lot for things, it might change how often you actually apologize to people
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Mar 27, 2021 19:33
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E: Already answered. Would have been nice if the elaboration had been there in the first place though!
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Mar 27, 2021 19:34
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Kim Justice posted:I agree totally. I'd wanna do that. People should admit they hosed up. It's healthy. It's always easier said than done. I still don't know exactly what Lindsay needed to apologize over, to be fair, the crazies thing was the one place where I think she 100% hosed up but that was already way past the point of no return. The best thing you can do is just not engage in the heat of the moment (or at all), I think. I've been trying to not do that recently.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:34
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Jamie Faith posted:Thanks and yeah, I think this whole "Apologies are about control!" thing is a very lovely, cynical and kinda chuddy way to look at things. There have in fact, been cases where someone famous did something shifty, got called out, went "oh poo poo sorry guys, my bad" and people went "its cool You definitely don’t come off as unhinged or as wanting to cancel anyone. If cancellation exists, it’s not someone deciding not to watch a video.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:38
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Tonfa posted:Yeah that makes a lot of sense and I'm not singling it out for a takedown or anything. I simply feel like online discussions veer into this kind of analytics and personal gain thing often - which can make observers and onlookers unconsciously take on that mindset - and periodically it's worth calling back to that hey, just do the humane thing, make the world better for everyone. Yeah, it's really easy to go in that rather cold direction. Especially when you're thoroughly online and do this for a living. It's that lil' Macchiavelli talking I guess, thinking about how to handle situations when the stakes appear to be quite high (my online presence and livelihood is in danger!) To try and manage things, to try and think who's acting in what way...perhaps is too much. Better to spend that energy on just trying to be understanding. Dias posted:It's always easier said than done. I still don't know exactly what Lindsay needed to apologize over, to be fair, the crazies thing was the one place where I think she 100% hosed up but that was already way past the point of no return. I don't think it's a case of apologising as such (at least at first before all the poo poo went to hell), just perhaps not being so standoffish. Leaving the Quote Tweet button alone and the subtweets in the drafts. Stop assuming that everyone's a bad actor (in fact, best not think about this at all really. Trying to separate people into good actors and bad actors is where madness lies). Maybe chat to the actual person. All this is so much easier said than done of course. So easy to say all of this and again all this is coming off too much like Football analysis or some poo poo. Kim Justice fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 19:40
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I just want this thread to be a better source for good youtube videos then my loving youtube algorithm.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:41
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Let's get mad at fake psychics instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFyCJU3AFSA
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Mar 27, 2021 19:43
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Junpei Hyde posted:Let's get mad at fake psychics instead Preemptively canceling Wolf for criticizing astrology now, you hosed up.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:45
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Junpei Hyde posted:Let's get mad at fake psychics instead Hell yeah
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Mar 27, 2021 19:46
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I read that as 'physics' 3 times before getting it right and honestly I'm a little disappointed now.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:48
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Garrand posted:I read that as 'physics' 3 times before getting it right and honestly I'm a little disappointed now. Healing from across the map is very useful
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Mar 27, 2021 19:50
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You apologize to friends, family, and coworkers. People you actually know. Not people online. You don't know them, even if you think you do. Maybe people think this is a bitter or cynical or "chuddy" attitude or whatever, but in my experience Chuds love forcing people to apologize, because they love having control over people. So there's that to think about too. Anyway sometimes apologies aren't enough. Sometimes people are going to hate you no matter what you do. An apology will never fix it. I think its healthier to accept this than believe there's some golden path you can walk where you never upset or offend anyone. Antifa Turkeesian posted:Control is not exactly the right word for it, but a lot of calls for online accountability come from someone’s desire to see themselves acknowledged by another so that they know that that they exist, like they need that mirror of another reacting to them so that they have the reassurance of seeing themselves. So it’s always someone with a high-enough profile, but never so big that they obviously post through a publicist—because the apology doesn’t mean anything if the person isn’t seeing and reacting to you when they post. It’s often people who are marginalized or in a bad place, so I don’t mean to sound like I’m accusing people of acting in bad faith or being selfish when they do it. This is probably true too. I don't know. I'm not interested in keeping this particular discussion going either.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:52
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Junpei Hyde posted:Sometimes I wonder how this thread would be if I banned posting tweets Do it, coward Junpei.
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Mar 27, 2021 19:55
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Junpei Hyde posted:Sometimes I wonder how this thread would be if I banned posting 
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Mar 27, 2021 20:01
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Ah now the pendulum has swung to around to pitying the poor people who Twitter is just to mean too. Predictable as always
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Mar 27, 2021 20:02
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Pachylad posted:Looking through Mara's other liked tweets, looks like she does indeed have a bone to pick with Lindsay
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Mar 27, 2021 20:03
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Let me put it like this, when you gently caress up, just say sorry and say, like, 90% of people will forgive you and the 10% who keep attacking you, you can ignore them. VS Doubling down and  ing over cancel culture and instead, 90% of people will think you're a huge rear end in a top hat ( and they will be correct) and 10% of people will start donating to your Patreon in order to stick it to PC culture or whatever.
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Mar 27, 2021 20:03
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Sarcopenia posted:If that's the theme park dude, I would just like to point out that he was aggressively defending the Walkers against CTC. I specifically saw him be pretty lovely to Allison about it on twitter. He only seemed to change his tune when the Walkers snubbed him after being one of the last people on their site to defend them, lol. Also speaking of Movie Bob defending.... https://twitter.com/tonygoldmark/status/1375693693382881283 Right on schedule lmao
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Mar 27, 2021 20:05
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Sarcopenia posted:If that's the theme park dude, I would just like to point out that he was aggressively defending the Walkers against CTC. I specifically saw him be pretty lovely to Allison about it on twitter. He only seemed to change his tune when the Walkers snubbed him after being one of the last people on their site to defend them, lol. He always reminded me of LeFou from Beauty and the Beast.
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Mar 27, 2021 20:05
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