(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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It’s basically all the us can come up with and always has been Political theory in the west is stuff like two democracies don’t go to war or two countries with McDonald’s don’t go to war etc but even if it were true the history shows the countries with McDonald’s are the aggressors in every conflict lol And anyway it’s just hegemon and it’s suzerains vs periphery no matter how you slice it Antonymous has issued a correction as of 22:25 on Mar 29, 2021 |
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Mar 29, 2021 22:23
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1375150224432316424?s=20 lol the last line of that NYT article i linked is  quote:With each new twist in relations, however, clearer camps are emerging. “The Chinese mirror all the time,” Ms. Fallon said. “They always accuse people of Cold War thinking because I think that’s really, deep down, how they think.”
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Mar 29, 2021 22:24
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interesting to see who last year was saying the Autocracy vs Democracy line New York Times writers https://twitter.com/Abihabib/status/1273847619479990272?s=20 Michael McFaul talking about century long struggles https://twitter.com/McFaul/status/1223350722927849472?s=20 Pelosi https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1229064567910785025?s=20 Hong Kong activists https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1341331021665619969?s=20 but just in 2019 even Foreign Affairs was saying this was a dumb analysis https://twitter.com/ForeignAffairs/status/1148237067329114112?s=20
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Mar 29, 2021 22:37
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also lol at the US picking india and being like 'ooh we support democracy' man gently caress you Modi is a fascist
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Mar 29, 2021 22:40
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Atrocious Joe posted:Michael McFaul talking about century long struggles buddy i’ll give you 15 years and that’s being incredibly generous
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Mar 29, 2021 22:46
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I am sure the GOP don't care about the democracy pitch, but what's the percentage of DEM who actually believe this poo poo? How do they explain the unholy alliance with Saudi Arabia? It was Jimmy Carter's idea too. Is there a word for crusade, but not against another Abrahamic religion, but against a different civilization?
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Mar 29, 2021 23:25
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Grapplejack posted:also lol at the US picking india and being like 'ooh we support democracy' Yes but he's a democratically elected fascist, which makes him good. whatever you do do not google 1932 german election
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Mar 29, 2021 23:26
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stephenthinkpad posted:Is there a word for crusade, but not against another Abrahamic religion, but against a different civilization? Weaponised racism?
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Mar 29, 2021 23:36
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stephenthinkpad posted:I am sure the GOP don't care about the democracy pitch, but what's the percentage of DEM who actually believe this poo poo? How do they explain the unholy alliance with Saudi Arabia? It was Jimmy Carter's idea too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Crusades Not all the European crusades were against Abrahamic religions
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Mar 29, 2021 23:38
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stephenthinkpad posted:Is there a word for crusade, but not against another Abrahamic religion, but against a different civilization? jihad
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Mar 29, 2021 23:47
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stephenthinkpad posted:Is there a word for crusade, but not against another Abrahamic religion, but against a different civilization?  
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Mar 29, 2021 23:50
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I was going to make a joke about the Chinese worship the atheist god of Karl Marx. On second thought, the Chinese should carry the torch of Yu the Great who was the original Chinese ancestor and essentially the God of Engineering. The great infrastructure of the east shall withstand the great financial shenanigans of the west.
stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 00:38 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 00:35
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stephenthinkpad posted:I am sure the GOP don't care about the democracy pitch, but what's the percentage of DEM who actually believe this poo poo? How do they explain the unholy alliance with Saudi Arabia? It was Jimmy Carter's idea too. Cuppy Tea was banned for saying the phrase "abrahamic religion," because apparently that phrase is antisemetic
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Mar 30, 2021 00:43
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almost got me to check in on d&d's take on china. not this time satan
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Mar 30, 2021 01:07
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Atrocious Joe posted:
i know of one country that has a history of actually doing this and its not china quote:a strategy to destroy democracy and promote autocracy
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Mar 30, 2021 01:24
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I feel like the New Cold War propaganda against the autocratic enemy is not going to be as effective as the Old Cold War's was. Like the material conditions for its complete mass acceptance just aren't there.
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Mar 30, 2021 01:28
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america cant do a cold war with china and import cheap consumer goods to suppress the wages of the working class at the same time. i wonder which one will crack first
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Mar 30, 2021 01:34
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Rutibex posted:america cant do a cold war with china and import cheap consumer goods to suppress the wages of the working class at the same time. i wonder which one will crack first The "right-wing populists" are trying to square this circle by decoupling the economy and bringing the starvation wages back home.
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Mar 30, 2021 02:01
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stephenthinkpad posted:I was going to make a joke about the Chinese worship the atheist god of Karl Marx. On second thought, the Chinese should carry the torch of Yu the Great who was the original Chinese ancestor and essentially the God of Engineering. The great infrastructure of the east shall withstand the great financial shenanigans of the west. see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovAoo4sMK0Y  you know what this says: 
BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 02:14 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 02:06
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Mar 30, 2021 02:17
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crepeface posted:almost got me to check in on d&d's take on china. look at these guys, they're tripping out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHUlLrjzj08&t=144s BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 03:00 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 02:46
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singing and clapping and choreography and joy and poo poo? no thanks I'll stick to good ol' american drab nihilism and stoic detachment
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Mar 30, 2021 02:50
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:goons are still making winnie the pooh jokes, like reddit. it's so played out at this point. what, he looks like an adorable teddy bear who children want to hug? nobody makes those jokes because they think it is the height of wit they do it because at one point it was really getting under his skin apparently he got better e: like making fun of trump's baby hands
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Mar 30, 2021 03:02
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did it get under Xi's skin, or did some mid-level censor freak out about it and overreact who knows
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Mar 30, 2021 03:20
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i don't think any of that winnie the pooh poo poo happened. whatever. you know i'm interested in aesthetics and political ethical systems though and i think communist leaders can be kinda maternalistic, in a way, their presentation is not xi as a top-down strongman. the party is presented as a nurturing, comforting, protective thing. mike pompeo when he called the CPC a "marxist-leninist regime" is closer to the truth than a lot of leftists are, which is why xi jinping shows up and tells soldiers that he's so proud of them for how brave they are, and how they're doing such a good job it filled those guys with sunshine, because it's springtime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AShT1_3xDQ and everyone will be big, beautiful flowers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBUdOVKFRqo i don't think a lot of people know these references points though and where these traditions come from. the communist bloc during the cold war might've been mordor as far as most people outside it were concerned. people also say china is going fascist? this was being broadcast on american T.V. last year:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRKzpp7w58o 
BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 04:26 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 04:21
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https://twitter.com/DerekJGrossman/status/1376713914155556868 in the words of Mark Wahlberg in The Other Guys, this case is heating up faster than a junkie's spoon
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Mar 30, 2021 04:39
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bedpan posted:Cuppy Tea was banned for saying the phrase "abrahamic religion," because apparently that phrase is antisemetic That's what theyre called though
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Mar 30, 2021 06:21
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:That's what theyre called though CSPAM has many political prisoners.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:16
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BaaghiTV/status/1376786670167728131
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Mar 30, 2021 07:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/DerekJGrossman/status/1376713914155556868 It's all empty symbolic dick-waving and naval/aero brinksmanship until someone gets stupid enough to actually fire a shot, or cross a diplomatic red line. And I'm still skeptical of the latter. Maximo Roboto posted:That said, it's kind of funny because at this point I have to wonder if Taiwan declaring independence would mean anything. Forget materially- it wouldn't be even worth a drat diplomatically. The majority of nations will refuse to recognize an independent Taiwan for fear of upsetting China, and China as a P5 member will just block any attempt at U.N. recognition. Just ask Kosovo what international recognition is worth when that happens: Let's say both the governments of the ROC and the U.S. lose their heads. Taiwan declares independence and the U.S. recognizes them. Then what? They're not getting a U.N. seat with China's veto. They're not even getting an WHO seat. Neither NATO nations nor the Anglo cousins will join in on this. Unless the U.S. starts basing in Taiwan again, nothing would actually happen. I mean, China would probably get angry over it and use it as a pretext for military action, but no material consequence would have happened otherwise.
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Mar 30, 2021 08:09
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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:nobody makes those jokes because they think it is the height of wit yeah and the trump hands thing was funny for like 12 hours before it became extremely embarrassing
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Mar 30, 2021 10:09
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Maximo Roboto posted:It's all empty symbolic dick-waving and naval/aero brinksmanship until someone gets stupid enough to actually fire a shot, or cross a diplomatic red line. And I'm still skeptical of the latter. The civil war will resume regardless. This poo poo is not getting resolved in the UN. The only difference is how many country will support Taiwan. You pretty much know ASEAN and MENA will not take a side. US will take a side but probably only limited military support, Japan will provide logistic support. So really the main unknown are, will Europe take a side? And will US actually send the navy.
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Mar 30, 2021 11:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/DerekJGrossman/status/1376713914155556868 Yeah, but he is the US ambassedor to Palau. I am sure he has to explain to every person what "Palau" is in every party.
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Mar 30, 2021 11:19
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Varinn posted:yeah and the trump hands thing was funny for like 12 hours before it became extremely embarrassing It was really funny when Rubio brought it up in a debate and Trump said actually I have a big dick
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Mar 30, 2021 11:37
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little marco america revitalizing democracy by devitalizing a whole lot of people all over the world
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Mar 30, 2021 14:09
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stephenthinkpad posted:The civil war will resume regardless. This poo poo is not getting resolved in the UN. Yeah, of course. My point is that even if it happened, the only impact on China is a loss of face. Economically and diplomatically other countries wouldn't pick Taiwan over the PRC. And sure, a loss of face and national pride is something significant enough to go to war over, but it's still all symbolism at the end and not an actual material threat to China. I suppose someone could argue that if Taiwan was independent, it would be a pretext for the U.S. trying to subvert China further to carve out Tibet, Xinjiang, etc. as independent anti-Beijing states, but domino theory in Asia hasn't exactly turned out to be real. stephenthinkpad posted:The only difference is how many country will support Taiwan. You pretty much know ASEAN and MENA will not take a side. US will take a side but probably only limited military support, Japan will provide logistic support. So really the main unknown are, will Europe take a side? And will US actually send the navy. Taiwan declaring independence would trigger enough of a reaction from the PRC government to declare war, but I still can't quite imagine how the average Chinese would feel about it. Even if the war is justified under China's diplomatic standards, it would be a very War on Iraq situation where a hostile state is preemptively invaded by a greater power. Taiwan declaring independence doesn't actually mean they fire the first shot or otherwise become a military threat to China more than they already are, unless they started basing U.S. troops. While there would be a lot of patriotism, undoing the Century of Humiliation, etc., Chinese society would still end up having to wrestle with why two wealthy globally-integrated countries are choosing to blow each other up. And there's the fraternal element too, the PRC would label the Taiwanese hanjian and all that but at the end of the day everyone involved speaks Mandarin, shares the same customs, and are mostly the same ethnicity- there would be a weird dissonance there. Finally the CPC is all about stability- war anywhere is disruptive towards their development goals. Ultimately I'm not saying a Sino-Taiwanese war is impossible, I just don't think anyone has any idea what it would look like. And the PRC government is probably less motivated towards it than their bluster would indicate.
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Mar 30, 2021 17:42
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Maximo Roboto posted:Yeah, of course. My point is that even if it happened, the only impact on China is a loss of face. Economically and diplomatically other countries wouldn't pick Taiwan over the PRC. And sure, a loss of face and national pride is something significant enough to go to war over, but it's still all symbolism at the end and not an actual material threat to China. What I could see happening is a doubling down of the 1 China policy. Countries that maintain unofficial diplomatic relations with taiwan might be strong armed into withdrawing by China.
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Mar 30, 2021 18:41
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Maximo Roboto posted:Yeah, of course. My point is that even if it happened, the only impact on China is a loss of face. Economically and diplomatically other countries wouldn't pick Taiwan over the PRC. And sure, a loss of face and national pride is something significant enough to go to war over, but it's still all symbolism at the end and not an actual material threat to China. I think the US of A as in 2021, the most powerful toolkit is in the financial sector. If the "unification of Taiwan island"happens, US IMO will not use her military asset but instead use her financial toolkit. Basically whatever US is doing to Huawei now, but do to half of the Chinese companies, if not all of them. quote:Taiwan declaring independence would trigger enough of a reaction from the PRC government to declare war, but I still can't quite imagine how the average Chinese would feel about it. Even if the war is justified under China's diplomatic standards, it would be a very War on Iraq situation where a hostile state is preemptively invaded by a greater power. Taiwan declaring independence doesn't actually mean they fire the first shot or otherwise become a military threat to China more than they already are, unless they started basing U.S. troops. If you follow Chinse news of both side of the strait, you would know the mainlanders are pretty onboard with any reunification action because the DPP has said some pretty disrespectful things to the people of china. However, "it" is being proceed according the Xi Jinping schedule so it doesn't matter what the DPP is saying right now. As for how it will unfold, IMO it will be done way more high tech than people think, just look at the recent Nagorno-Karabakh war.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:13
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Look at the "trade war", the reason the US didn't decouple its economy in the first place was because way way too many US businesses still source their goods from Chinese factories and I don't think Taiwanese unification would change that. Maybe some more tariffs/sanctions would be in place but ultimately business is business. Also, again, the PRC would only need a blockade if it was really interested in action. (Btw as far as the trade war goes, US-Chinese trade dipped in early 2020 due to the lockdown but now seems to be trending to somewhere between where it was in 2018/2019. Ultimately, the US-Chinese trade deficit may have been cut around 15% in total.) Ardennes has issued a correction as of 19:27 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 19:23
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stephenthinkpad posted:If you follow Chinse news of both side of the strait, you would know the mainlanders are pretty onboard with any reunification action because the DPP has said some pretty disrespectful things to the people of china. However, "it" is being proceed according the Xi Jinping schedule so it doesn't matter what the DPP is saying right now. It's one to support it as a hypothetical, it's another to see ruined cities full of fellow Chinese and needless suffering spurred on not by actual military attack but a quixotic diplomatic move that only the U.S. and maybe the Vatican, at most, recognize. Taiwan as a "rogue state" looks very different from the actual "rogue states" that great powers have been loving with since the end of the Cold War, from Iraq to Ukraine. stephenthinkpad posted:As for how it will unfold, IMO it will be done way more high tech than people think, just look at the recent Nagorno-Karabakh war. Yeah, it's possible. It would be pretty unprecedented in that it's an amphibious war + involve two sides that are both very developed industrialized countries, though. Ardennes posted:Also, again, the PRC would only need a blockade if it was really interested in action. Yeah, agreed.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:57
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