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The_Doctor posted:Apropos of related topics, my friend with the PhD in critical race theory has been eulogising the show’s take on race and racism so far. That was pretty cool. Would you mind posting more/other takes that he has for other episodes? I'd really like to read his take on the show.
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Mar 30, 2021 02:12
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s important to remember that not everyone watching the show is an extremely online poster like a lot of us here. Even if Disney only does the absolute baby step cliff notes of racial issues in America that’s still kind of a big deal because of the very broad audience it’ll reach. And yeah, some of it may just be for the optics, but that’s gotta be better than not addressing it at all, or worse, pretending it doesn’t exist in the first place. Reminder that there's numerous people in Hollywood who thought they were being highly progressive in voting for Green Book as best picture. In the hinterland there's probably many who felt that a step too far. e: quoted wrong post Daduzi fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 02:31
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I think people are really underestimating how much influence Feige has. He's made them literally billions of dollars so they seem content to let him do whatever he wants. I don't think this image of the board of directors going over every script with a fine toothed comb is accurate.
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Mar 30, 2021 02:48
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Disney doesn't really give a single poo poo about racism or any other form of bigotry. But that cuts two ways. They don't care about fighting it, but they also don't care about supporting it. If fighting bigotry is more profitable than supporting it or ignoring it (and it kind of is), Disney will fight the ever-loving gently caress out of racism. Black Panther was a movie with a mostly black cast, a black director and two black writers. It had a budget of 200 million dollars. It took in 700 million dollar in the USA along. Worldwide it grossed over 1.3 billion with a b dollars, so it basically made a 1.1 billion with b dollar profit over budget. Disney is now fully engaged with the idea that black people are willing to spend money on stuff that engages with them.
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Mar 30, 2021 03:43
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Finally had time to watch the new episode and it was 10x better than the first one. We actually got plot and some nice backstory stuff to go along with the introduction in full of US Agent. From what I have read about US Agent it seems like they are sticking reasonably close to his comics origin as the tougher, but more government friendly version of Cap who will do as ordered most of the time. I'm thinking that we'll see more of the character's anger issues going forward as it was in the comics but we're not at that point yet. Apparently Battlestar is a pre-existing character who was one of John Walker's Vietnam buddies in the comics who also gets powers thanks to the Power Broker. I had not heard of him before but he has an interesting history- quote:Battlestar was created by Mark Gruenwald and Paul Neary, and was originally introduced as a nameless member of the Bold Urban Commandos in Captain America #323. In Captain America #327 he is called "Lemar" for the first time, but generally is still treated as interchangeable with the other BUCs. He rises from anonymity in Captain America #334, in which his full name is revealed and he adopts the identity of Bucky. Gruenwald later explained: I'm curious to see what they are going to do with Zemo in this series. He's almost certainly going to end up as the main villain but I'm curious what his link to the Flag Smashers is (I assume that they will tie together soon, as I have a strong feeling that the Flag Smashers are probably on their way to bust him out of UN jail or wherever he is now).
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Mar 30, 2021 05:24
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Cage Kicker posted:Putting the spotlight on racial social issues has got to be a real morale killer for the kind of person who thinks racism is mostly over but still locks their car doors when they are at a stoplight and a POC is in the crosswalk. Yes, but have you considered that sticklefifer posted:We're following a post-Thanos world, and it feels like they're wedging in real world issues because a boardroom of rich white guys mandated it. There's no reason to believe that after all the events in the MCU, modern society would be literally the same but also superheroes. The MCU didn't have Trump or Q or BLM, so maybe black people should just shut up and consider how good they have it without a Chitauri invasion.
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Mar 30, 2021 05:47
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Hell, I think it's unrealistic that they haven't portrayed 'Never-Snappers' in the MCU; people who just straight up don't believe the Snap or Blip actually happened. I'd buy that in a second after 2020.
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Mar 30, 2021 06:13
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Good job adding another bizarre racist strawman a full page after people were being cool about it, AJA. So proud of you.Doom2020! posted:Cool man. Thank you for clarifying and I actually feel you on the Disney being scummy thing as they are deffo are. I only hope that they are giving the writers on the stories more freedom or at least some flexibility on how they make the show aside from basic outlines [...]I will not harp on you any more and I know it sucks when people do. Sorry mang. Hopefully we all can be mates and post about how we hope this show doesn't have a bollocksed ending. Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s important to remember that not everyone watching the show is an extremely online poster like a lot of us here. Even if Disney only does the absolute baby step cliff notes of racial issues in America that’s still kind of a big deal because of the very broad audience it’ll reach. And yeah, some of it may just be for the optics, but that’s gotta be better than not addressing it at all, or worse, pretending it doesn’t exist in the first place.
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Mar 30, 2021 06:29
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Golden Bee posted:Who the gently caress says that Disney dictates every thing that happens and screenwriters are just stenographers? I’ve gone to lectures held by the showrunner of the show. He’s a brilliant man who created the blacklist*, which monetized helping writers break into the business while paying script readers. He’s been on script notes, the premiere script writing podcast of the last 10 years. Everything you say supports my belief that "Episodes" was actually a documentary and so I fully endorse this post. side note i recently saw a commercial on hulu and was shocked to see they're finally making Pucks into a real show
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Mar 30, 2021 06:38
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sticklefifer posted:They don't seem to be doing an "America won't accept a black Cap" or a "Falcon won't accept the shield because of America's issues" narrative I think they are, they're just not being in your face about it. But we'll see.
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Mar 30, 2021 06:52
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sticklefifer posted:Good job adding another bizarre racist strawman a full page after people were being cool about it, AJA. So proud of you. It's really not that bizarre, it's just your own words. Again, for the cheap seats; sticklefifer posted:We're following a post-Thanos world, and it feels like they're wedging in real world issues because a boardroom of rich white guys mandated it. There's no reason to believe that after all the events in the MCU, modern society would be literally the same but also superheroes. The MCU didn't have Trump or Q or BLM, Why you chose to associate BLM with Trump or Q is beyond me. Also, the fact that you think racial prejudice would just up and *poof*, post-2013, without them is, as you say, bizarre. sticklefifer posted:I don't necessarily need to be hearing about them through the lens of Disney Presents Wokeness™. AJA fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 06:52
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What was the involvement of Disney with Cloak and Dagger? I've been watching that and they're pretty loving explicit about talking about racism. They had a scene of a group of police chasing down a young black boy with literal loving torches and a noose to lynch him. And they weren't even special "the bad ones" cops, it was pretty much just... this is how an average police officer is gonna treat you if you're black in the south. "We need to it more explicit that cops are basically the Klan with government backing" doesn't feel so much like a corporate mandated story beat.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:26
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Its producers are listed as ABC, Marvel, and Wandering Rocks Productions. I assume that last is just the immediate centralized team? Freeform is a Disney channel so it seems like a Disney/Marvel production. Its show creator/runner is Joe Pokaski who has worked for Marvel and Heroes as well as the Underground (Railroad) tv show.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:32
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Captain America is what America thinks of America. To take that symbolic representation seriously the show’s topic fundamentally cannot escape race and its relationship with what we collectively think America is. Would you rather they halfassed it?
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Mar 30, 2021 07:33
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I get the impression that the majority of people here have never read a superhero comic, and thus keep getting surprised when the shows and movies accurately portray superheroes from Marvel and DC. I'm not trying to say there aren't plenty of things to criticize, but if you keep expecting a Marvel show to put the superheroes on hold, so they can tell a serious story about racism or loss, then the problem is that you are expecting something they never promised you would get.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:38
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XboxPants posted:Everything you say supports my belief that "Episodes" was actually a documentary and so I fully endorse this post. Later when I was on community, I was so chatty that they mentioned it in the episode commentary.) Back on topic, I love how the many times when a superhero is getting a movie, there’s a single issue where they go to Hollywood and see them making a movie… And one of the stuntmen or the Director or the lead actor is Chameleon. The best one was probably by Scott Aukerman, and the funniest thing about it is the wiki format that describes it. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Spider-Man/Deadpool_Vol_1_6 (more than 20 references detailed, but no synopsis).
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Mar 30, 2021 07:43
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm curious to see what they are going to do with Zemo in this series. He's almost certainly going to end up as the main villain but I'm curious what his link to the Flag Smashers is (I assume that they will tie together soon, as I have a strong feeling that the Flag Smashers are probably on their way to bust him out of UN jail or wherever he is now). Zemo was a Death Squad commander for a failed Eastern Block state and also an expert in psi-ops, so it wouldn't shock me if the Power Broker(s) are going to recruit him to try to infiltrate and take down the Flag Smashers from the inside since he'd have credibility is he claimed to want to join their cause if he spun his story a certain way or sold himself as the solution to their Avenger problem. Or maybe the Flag Smashers will try to recruit him because the Avengers have made themselves their enemies and he's the world's leading expert on Avenger Destroying, and will need to be convinced that Zemo's road to their goals is the clear wrong road. Or maybe US Agent will recruit Zemo to help him take down the Flag Smashers to earn himself some leniency in his sentence since the Avengers have given them all the finger, on the orders of Secretary THUNDERBOLT Ross.
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Mar 30, 2021 07:59
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AJA posted:Nothing gets done in this world without corporate pressure. You know how the Klan first got named and shamed? Because Stetson Kennedy went to the writers of the Superman radio program and wrote the truth into their serial. But maybe they were just all "Presents Wokeness™," too. To be fair the 2nd Klan was already falling apart at that point due to a lot of other factors, although Superman did deliver a nice coup de grace on them. Supposedly clan recruitment dropped to 0% the year that show went on air.
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Mar 30, 2021 08:01
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Sanguinia posted:Or maybe US Agent will recruit Zemo to help him take down the Flag Smashers to earn himself some leniency in his sentence since the Avengers have given them all the finger, on the orders of Secretary THUNDERBOLT Ross.
And as someone who loving hates Grimdark poo poo, I'd be completely down with it. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 08:10
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sticklefifer posted:Good job adding another bizarre racist strawman a full page after people were being cool about it, AJA. So proud of you. Let's see, we saw the US government take the shield via deception from Sam to give to their own pre-selected white candidate for Cap and we met Isaiah Bradley, the second US super-soldier and first African-American superhero who rather than being feted as the new Captain America, was thrown in jail for 30 years and experimented on. They're totally not doing an 'America won't accept a black Cap' narrative.
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Mar 30, 2021 09:50
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Everyone posted:That was pretty cool. Would you mind posting more/other takes that he has for other episodes? I'd really like to read his take on the show. For sure, I might even prod him to write a couple of paragraphs.
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Mar 30, 2021 09:52
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mind the walrus posted:I love how Disney has been conspicuously silent and aside from Deadpool downright averse to even mentioning antiheroes-- USAgent is easily the farthest they've gone so far into that territory unless you count the Netflix Punisher stuff (I sure as gently caress don't; although Jon Berenthal was perfect)-- but fans are continuously hungry for a Thunderbolts and they're set one up perfectly: Was the Thunderbolts comic grimdark? I never read it, but the premise doesn't sound inherently dark. At least, as I understand it. Then again, I'm not entirely clear on the premise, because my understanding is that while it starts out as a bunch of villains parading as heroes to set up more nefarious schemes that some of them (primarily Songbird/Screaming Mimi) take a liking to the lifestyle and want to actually become heroes once the poo poo hits the fan. Is it just Mimi/Songbird though, or is it a few people or what?
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Mar 30, 2021 09:58
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tsob posted:Was the Thunderbolts comic grimdark? I never read it, but the premise doesn't sound inherently dark. At least, as I understand it. Then again, I'm not entirely clear on the premise, because my understanding is that while it starts out as a bunch of villains parading as heroes to set up more nefarious schemes that some of them (primarily Songbird/Screaming Mimi) take a liking to the lifestyle and want to actually become heroes once the poo poo hits the fan. Is it just Mimi/Songbird though, or is it a few people or what? The thunderbolts have had a few setups now, the first was what you said. Then others have been more like conscripted villains with electric shock collars to arrest or kill super heroes during the comics civil war or something like the suicide squad where it’s prisoners earning time off their sentences doing dangerous poo poo.
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Mar 30, 2021 11:22
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If they went just with villains of the Avengers, they could put together a team like: -Justin Hammer (Iron Man) -Zemo (Captain America) -Abomination (Hulk) -New Black Widow or Taskmaster (Black Widow) -Whoever the bad guy in the Hawkeye show is going to be (Hawkeye) -Uhh (Thor) Plus Ghost, Mordo, Agatha and Walker.
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Mar 30, 2021 11:42
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They should bring back Charcoal just to settle the legal battle.
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Mar 30, 2021 12:21
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Azhais posted:I love Bucky's face when Spidey just catches his punch and is all "Wow cool you've got a metal arm!" There's something just wonderful about two of the most skilled and dangerous soldiers in the world getting clowned on by like a 12-year-old kid who is just having a great time making new friends 
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Mar 30, 2021 12:26
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Everyone posted:Disney doesn't really give a single poo poo about racism or any other form of bigotry. But that cuts two ways. They don't care about fighting it, but they also don't care about supporting it. If fighting bigotry is more profitable than supporting it or ignoring it (and it kind of is), Disney will fight the ever-loving gently caress out of racism. Uuuuh, yeah but they are also fully capitulating to the Chinese censorship boards who instruct them to remove black cast members from Star Wars advertising. It’s not either/or. They’ll fight racism in the US while engaging in and maintaining racism in China at the same loving time.
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Mar 30, 2021 12:52
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Sanguinia posted:Zemo was a Death Squad commander for a failed Eastern Block state and also an expert in psi-ops, so it wouldn't shock me if the Power Broker(s) are going to recruit him to try to infiltrate and take down the Flag Smashers from the inside since he'd have credibility is he claimed to want to join their cause if he spun his story a certain way or sold himself as the solution to their Avenger problem. Or maybe the Flag Smashers will try to recruit him because the Avengers have made themselves their enemies and he's the world's leading expert on Avenger Destroying, and will need to be convinced that Zemo's road to their goals is the clear wrong road. Or maybe US Agent will recruit Zemo to help him take down the Flag Smashers to earn himself some leniency in his sentence since the Avengers have given them all the finger, on the orders of Secretary THUNDERBOLT Ross. I think that idea kind of ignores Zemo's whole deal from Civil War. He doesn't like superheroes or even super-powered people in general. Despite having the code words to turn them into his personal Winter Soldier death squad, Zemo shot the other Winter Soldiers inside the cryo-tubes with the comment of "You think I want more of you?" Zemo's dream scenario for FatWS is that the Flag-smashers, Power Broker, Nu-Cap, Bucky and Sam manage to kill each other off in their conflict and thereby reduce the super population. Failing that, getting Sam and Bucky to eliminate the Flag-smashers and especially the Power Broker (who is likely the source of the new Super Soldier Serum) would be a next best goal for him. I think Zemo will at least start out something like Hannibal Lector from The Silence of the Lambs like I said upthread. He'll be the evil, untrustworthy source of information that lets Sam and Bucky go after the real villains of the piece.
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Mar 30, 2021 14:58
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live with fruit posted:If they went just with villains of the Avengers, they could put together a team like: I can't imagine it happening, but I would sell a kidney for it to be The Grandmaster. Bust Rodd posted:Uuuuh, yeah but they are also fully capitulating to the Chinese censorship boards who instruct them to remove black cast members from Star Wars advertising. Never read about that, you got a source?
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Mar 30, 2021 14:58
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Daduzi posted:I can't imagine it happening, but I would sell a kidney for it to be The Grandmaster. Scourge, or whover that mook from Ragnarok watching the Rainbow Bridge gate room's name is would be fun too.
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Mar 30, 2021 15:04
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Bust Rodd posted:Uuuuh, yeah but they are also fully capitulating to the Chinese censorship boards who instruct them to remove black cast members from Star Wars advertising. It’s not either/or. They’ll fight racism in the US while engaging in and maintaining racism in China at the same loving time. Still as utterly rear end as The Rise of Skywalker was, it had as many black cast members in it (who had actual names and speaking roles) as the prequels and the original trilogy combined, if I recall correctly. Granted that was three (Finn, Lando and Lando's daughter that Lando seemed to be getting ready to bang because yeah, the movie was utterly rear end) as opposed to three (the captain from Phantom Menace, Mace Windu and Lando).
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Mar 30, 2021 15:05
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Daduzi posted:
They didn't cut him out entirely, but they greatly shrunk him on the poster. As far as has been reported, they voluntarily chose to do that to pre-empt "issues" in the Chinese market and not because of the censorship board. Disney did end up cutting gay sub-plots from Star Wars, Frozen, and Avengers because of the Chinese censorship board, though.  They also, bizarrely, did this for Black Panther. https://twitter.com/NeoArcadia551/status/1268452985060769794
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Mar 30, 2021 15:07
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Daduzi posted:Never read about that, you got a source? https://twitter.com/BBC/status/1057618453165563904?s=20 Honestly this is my first time seeing that boyega clip and I never even noticed he was still on the chinese poster. I just kept looking at the empty space he used to be in and didnt realize he was still there lol.
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Mar 30, 2021 15:09
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Bust Rodd posted:https://twitter.com/BBC/status/1057618453165563904?s=20 Notice that the Chinese poster is also super-bigoted against Poe Dameron since it enlarges BB-8 to completely obscure him. At least Finn was merely shrunk and re-positioned without getting erased.
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Mar 30, 2021 15:16
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it’s hosed up, but the thought of hiding the fact that black panther (as well as the entire cast minus martin freeman) is black from prospective audiences is also really drat funny to me
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Mar 30, 2021 15:20
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:They didn't cut him out entirely, but they greatly shrunk him on the poster. Yeah, no, I'm aware of the poster change. It was more the claim that Disney made the call in order to placate the censorship board that's new to me. My understanding was that it was a decision made by the Chinese distributer based on good old fashioned internal racism.
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Mar 30, 2021 15:31
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double negative posted:it’s hosed up, but the thought of hiding the fact that black panther (as well as the entire cast minus martin freeman) is black from prospective audiences is also really drat funny to me FWIW I've never seen the poster on the left, and I saw Black Panther in a Chinese cinema. I just pulled up Black Panther on my Chinese streaming platform and it's the poster on the right.
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Mar 30, 2021 15:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Disney did end up cutting gay sub-plots from Star Wars, Frozen, and Avengers because of the Chinese censorship board, though. source?
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Mar 30, 2021 15:54
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That’s the thing about international mega corporations, you can have Internal review boards, anti-racist initiatives, great hires, and still external teams performing racism. Whatever bullshit you want to do you can usually be justified with “hey, I was here to make some money so we can do all our good stuff elsewhere!”
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Mar 30, 2021 15:56
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Barry Convex posted:source? It was actually Singapore's film board request that led to the gay kiss being cut. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/25/world/asia/star-wars-kiss-singapore.html This report says that Disney and Marvel pre-emptively made script changes to tone down gay content from scripts and any references to Tibet in Doctor Strange - including the idea of recasting the Ancient One as Irish to comply with the Chinese censorship board. https://pen.org/report/made-in-hollywood-censored-by-beijing/ Disney also has a group that "consults" with Chinese film boards to determine how they can "tailor" their movies to local audiences without requiring a separate cut for China. This group ended up cutting the Taiwan flag out of scenes and making other edits requested by the board. Studios also bring Chinese government regulators to movie sets to advise them on how to make the movie palatable to the censorship board. quote:The report said studios were self-censoring to ensure favorable treatment from the Chinese government, which could, in turn, lead to better release dates and preferential advertising arrangements. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 16:12
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