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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It was actually Malaysia's film board request that led to the gay kiss being cut. It's funny that Cargill would say that when Derrickson and Feige said it was about avoiding the mysterious and wise Asian stereotype.
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Mar 30, 2021 16:15
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The deal with Disney is that even cynical representation in popular culture provides a space to be in popular culture where there wasn't one previously, and jobs for minority actors and production team members lets them work in the industry. It's just important not to confuse that boon with the idea that Disney is a benign actor.
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Mar 30, 2021 16:33
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live with fruit posted:If they went just with villains of the Avengers, they could put together a team like: If they cut Songbird I will LITERALLY. RIOT.
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Mar 30, 2021 16:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This report says that Disney and Marvel pre-emptively made script changes to tone down gay content from scripts and any references to Tibet in Doctor Strange - including the idea of recasting the Ancient One as Irish to comply with the Chinese censorship board. Huh, I had no idea that the Ancient One in the film was supposed to be Celtic. Which could include Scottish or Welsh presumably, rather than being confined to Ireland if the way they're terming it is Celtic rather than Irish specifically. She might have also just been trying to play it as non-determinate or maybe someone decided that the broader the classification, the easier it was to explain or something. Tilda Swinton is Scottish herself though, according to Wikipedia, so she's presumably meant to be Scottish. I guess I just thought of her as non-determinate/non-specific or just outright English really, since I'd have had no idea where Swinton was from until now.
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Mar 30, 2021 16:48
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It was actually Singapore's film board request that led to the gay kiss being cut. as best I can tell, none of this supports the claim that entire LGBT subplots were cut out to appease the Chinese markets. The lesbian kiss in Rise of Skywalker was just one brief shot, not a subplot. As for the PEN article, I don't see any passage that says anything like "Disney and Marvel pre-emptively made script changes to tone down gay content from scripts," let alone that entire LGBT subplots were planned and then cut from the franchises you named at China's behest.
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Mar 30, 2021 16:59
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tsob posted:Was the Thunderbolts comic grimdark? I never read it, but the premise doesn't sound inherently dark. At least, as I understand it. Then again, I'm not entirely clear on the premise, because my understanding is that while it starts out as a bunch of villains parading as heroes to set up more nefarious schemes that some of them (primarily Songbird/Screaming Mimi) take a liking to the lifestyle and want to actually become heroes once the poo poo hits the fan. Is it just Mimi/Songbird though, or is it a few people or what? Alchenar posted:The deal with Disney is that even cynical representation in popular culture provides a space to be in popular culture where there wasn't one previously, and jobs for minority actors and production team members lets them work in the industry. It's just important not to confuse that boon with the idea that Disney is a benign actor. I think that is where I settle. It's nice seeing more comics, television and movies with people that look like me. That's why so many people went nuts about Black Panther. It was a Disney flick and had the CIA in a semi good guy role about African affairs. Seriously that part did take up some discussion with the family BUT... it was nice to see a positive futuristic take on an African society AND a bloody expensive super hero on top of it. Killmonger and his backstory also hit many of us a bit close to home and really there was a ton of people doing the "Wakanda Forever" for a bit. It was nice. Disney still sucks and Chinese Government racism really bloody sucks and western corporations deliberately bending over backwards to appease their new racist masters sucks but.... we are on film and making our shows. Even 50 years ago Black folks wouldn't get a chance to make a several billion dollar movie. We'd make amazing movies like The Harder They Comes on a shoestring budget and it would have to fight to get recognition, although it did. On the backs of blokes like Melvin Van Peebles came Spike Lee and John Singleton and now we got a whole new bunch of guys making movies and putting out stories. Still think the best way to combat racism is information. Once people read a story or see a movie and get to experience that a character that doesn't look or worship like them still feels the same emotion then maybe they get one step closer to ALSO making a friend who doesn't look like them. I know this seems silly but we posting here are proof that this is working. A couple of generations ago it was FAR worse. We are winning. I know Nazis are back and all but we are winning. So yeah... use dodgy corpos that are using us to appear "woke" so we can normalize our voices for the masses. Makes all these companies that plundered and pillaged worldwide put out rainbow coloured messages of hope and brotherhood, even if it is only in the name of a bit of shiny. <sorry to preach but since we have been talking about it for a hot minute>
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Mar 30, 2021 17:34
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Doom2020! posted:Like other goons said: Suicide Squad Marvel style. Sometimes you went more actual bad guys and darker to redemptive "baddies" on typical super adventures. Fun stuff and will 100% back up that Songbird has to be in it. She would be a great character to introduce day one and would grow throughout the series. I hope they have Man-Thing as a portal as I always loved that concept and execution of Man-Thing as both semi-sapient teammate/plot device/transportation. I might be the ONLY one but I'd kill for a Norman Osborn cameo somehow as he has always amused me horribly, especially when he loses it and blows up his own team. Beetle and Screaming Mimi need to be on the team episode ONE. I'd prefer they go with the original premise just because DC's Suicide Squad is already covering the Suicide Squad angle and the idea of villains pulling a con by pretending to be heroes and a few of them falling under the sway of that lifestyle despite themselves sounds fun and different enough on it's own regardless. Also, my only exposure to Songbird is from the Captain Marvel (Genis'Vell) run that ends with Genis defeating their time travelling conqueror son mid dialogue by resolving to kill him in the cot and then actually doing it. Which, edgy as it is was also loving heart breaking and much as I don't mind Carol as Captain Marvel I'll always miss both the look of Genis as Captain Marvel, because I love that "my body is a living starfield with constantly moving constellations all over my form" look he had going, and because I thought that run of comics Peter David did was fascinating and entertaining. David is a pretty great writer on anything I've seen him do though really. I'm sure Songbird is a good character on her own, but I'll never be able to see her and not feel sad about that one short run really. Her costume is wonderful though, and her powers are really visually appealing much like Green Lanterns so she'll always have that going for her to draw me in and be predisposed to like her regardless. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 18:11
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So, do we think that before the series is over we'll get to see Isaiah Bradley kick John Walker's Dairy Queen rear end up and down Main Street?
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Mar 30, 2021 19:10
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Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Eli is seen taking some super soldier serum while disguising the source of his power somehow after accompanying Isiah to help our dynamic duo in some fashion. I wouldn't be surprised if we get modern Isiah v Bucky though, ending with Isiah grudgingly admitting that maybe people can change or something.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:20
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I would have enjoyed Black Panther 100% more if I got what exactly Black Panthers powers and weaknesses are and when he's under threat. The answer seems to be 'all of them' and 'only when he gives up his powers'.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:21
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tsob posted:Probably not, but I wouldn't be surprised if Eli is seen taking some super soldier serum while disguising the source of his power somehow after accompanying Isiah to help our dynamic duo in some fashion. I wouldn't be surprised if we get modern Isiah v Bucky though, ending with Isiah grudgingly admitting that maybe people can change or something. I seriously hope that they drop the whole "Kid Black Captain America took street drugs to get his powers" bullshit and just say that Eli inherited his powers from his grandfather. Make it an actually legacy.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:25
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Marsupial Ape posted:I seriously hope that they drop the whole "Kid Black Captain America took street drugs to get his powers" bullshit and just say that Eli inherited his powers from his grandfather. Make it an actually legacy. Didn't he get hurt in a fight after that came out, and then Isaiah gave him a blood transfusion which gave him powers for real? But yeah, just skip to that bit, Marvel, thanks.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:32
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I don't know, in this instance I think it could be good as a way to reinforce that it doesn't matter how you got your powers, but what your character is if Eli comes out the other end a good person while John becomes even more of an angry rear end in a top hat. Of course, the lead Flagsmasher may already be covering that angle, depending on what they do with her.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:49
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What's the rule for spoiler tags now? With WandaVision the rule was 72 hours, right? Surely we're past the point of needing them now.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:57
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thrawn527 posted:What's the rule for spoiler tags now? With WandaVision the rule was 72 hours, right? Surely we're past the point of needing them now. I think they’re fun.
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Mar 30, 2021 19:59
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Marsupial Ape posted:I think they’re fun. Oh it's not a big deal, just curious.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:00
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tsob posted:Scourge, or whover that mook from Ragnarok watching the Rainbow Bridge gate room's name is would be fun too.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:Skurge died A minor setback. The bigger setback is that Karl Urban is on The Boys now.
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Mar 30, 2021 20:08
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massive spider posted:I would have enjoyed Black Panther 100% more if I got what exactly Black Panthers powers and weaknesses are and when he's under threat. The answer seems to be 'all of them' and 'only when he gives up his powers'. Yeah they really never stated it clearly but, since I'm a recovering comic book nerd and have discussed the movies with mates while high, I will help out. The heart shaped herb gives him peak human capabilities akin to Captain America. That means strength, speed, stamina are all at that vague level of "right below true superhuman" but above every known weightlifter, marathon and track runner. One of the bigger aspects of T'Challa is his mind. Think Batman. Guy can hold his own in conversations with Reed Richards and Tony Stark but can strategize like Captain America. One of the big arcs back in the day was BP having contingency plans to take out every Avenger. He also has access to Vibranium and the Scientific wonder that is Wakanda. Crazy sci fi tech and, in the movies, has a suit that enhances his prowess by not only being vibranium armour (so almost impenetrable) but will absorb kinetic energy over time and release it in a blast. Comics also had him sometimes access the knowledge of his ancestors which I think explains the conversation T'Challa had with his father where his various ancestors talked with him on the astral plane. So yeah... African King Batman minus the less psychosis but with Super Soldier Serum and genetic knowledge who likes using his tech from his super secret Cyberpunk Utopian civilization. I hope this doesn't make him sound a bit shite as he isn't. One of the cooler aspects of Black Panther is this character was made in 1966 and, like a Howling Commando called Gabe Jones, one of the very first non racist cartoon African Americans portrayed in comics. He was also the first show with real superpowers. I remember reading a bunch of Bronze Age stuff with him and it was really cool to see someone non white portrayed to be an equal, if not superior to some, of the white superheroes around him. So yeah.... groundbreaking. Far better than Triathalon I will tell ya. Doom2020! fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 20:49
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Doom2020! posted:Comics also had him sometimes access the knowledge of his ancestors which I think explains the conversation T'Challa had with his father where his various ancestors. Fun fact: i saw that movie with Dutch subtitles in theatre and the 'astral plane' was consistently translated as 'astral aircraft', which made about 10% of tbe audience chuckle every time
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Mar 30, 2021 21:03
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Black Panther's "powers" didn't especially confuse me in movie. Like the core of a lot of MCU "humans with powers" is "super soldier" and BP just felt like along with all the other ways Wakanda is smarter and more advanced than everyone else they also have an organic super soldier serum that has the dual effect of getting you so high you can reach other planes of existence and talk to your departed loved ones. Worked for me.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:16
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I'm also going to echo what others have said, which was that the 'couples' therapy' scene kind of stopped the episode dead in its tracks for me, and was the only negative part of the episode. Otherwise it was great. I did not expect them to go into the Isaiah Bradley stuff but I'm glad they are.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:18
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bentacos posted:A minor setback. I'd think an ever bigger setback is that he seems to have changed his priorities and wanted to be a better person already before he died. If the Thunderbolts were to really go for broke they could go for Hela, since Cate Blanchett seemed to be having a ball as Hela and while it's implied that Hela died it happened off-screen and she is a Goddess of death so they could easily write around that. Honestly, I'd love to see Blanchett return as Hela regardless because she's the one villain Thor faced that was definitively more powerful than him and that he outright could not beat when they previous fought, as well as possibly being immortal and tying in to him in a very personal way. It'd be especially interesting if now, as a Goddess of death, she's seen Loki's shade in the Underworld and can throw that in Thor's face. Plus, she's just so much fun on screen. STAC Goat posted:Black Panther's "powers" didn't especially confuse me in movie. Like the core of a lot of MCU "humans with powers" is "super soldier" and BP just felt like along with all the other ways Wakanda is smarter and more advanced than everyone else they also have an organic super soldier serum that has the dual effect of getting you so high you can reach other planes of existence and talk to your departed loved ones. Yeah, I just figured he was human+; stronger, faster, smarter etc. Seems fine. I'm assuming most everyone in the MCU has some strain of human+ going on at this point, including the people who supposedly don't have powers. Hawkeye being incapable of missing and hitting a perfect game of golf as an example makes far more sense if he has some level of metahuman hand-eye coordination going on somehow or other.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:30
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Wait, when did he play golf?
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Mar 30, 2021 21:31
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Gaz-L posted:Wait, when did he play golf? When Tony talks to him about retirement in Civil War Clint mentions that he got bored because he tried the usual things like golf but he hit 18 holes in 18 shots, and couldn't miss. This scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOKoyr_DBag&t=223s tsob fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 21:33
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Gaz-L posted:Wait, when did he play golf? Was mentioned in Civil War I think as something Clint had done during his retirement. efb
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Mar 30, 2021 21:34
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Since we’re talking about Black Panther’s powers, here’s a related question: are Wakandans saturated with Vibranium? I mean, like on a parts per million level? The intro of Black Panther describes how the plant life of Wakanda is saturated with Vibranium...which means trace levels of it are in the food chain. After generations of living there, the Wakandans have to have it in their tissues. I’m a water plant operator, so I am very conscious of removing heavy metals from drinking water. Obviously, Vibranium has a beneficial effect on the human body (unlike lead, selenium, mercury, high level of iron, etc) because the Heart Shaped Herb is a Vibranium charged plant gives you super powers. Does that mean Wakandans on average are smarter and physically better than the baseline?
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Mar 30, 2021 21:39
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Eh, I think Hawkeye and Black Widow are just super spies who have access to Stark tech and were in the right place at the right time. If Maria Hill wanted to put on armor and pick up some fancy weapons theoretically she could be an Avenger too. Stark, Rhodey, Falcon... they're all just regular humans with fancy toys. Cap, Bucky, and Black Panther all feel like grades of "super soldier" to me. Different methods to get there, but the same intended goal of enhancing human abilities to 11. And Hulk and Abomination are when those experimentations went wrong. I don't think the MCU has really played with the idea of "metagene" or "xgene" stuff. At least not yet. WandaVision possibly went there and Spider-Man's origin is still technically untold and he seems like the outlier in human genetically altered not in a super soldier way.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:41
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Marsupial Ape posted:Since we’re talking about Black Panther’s powers, here’s a related question: are Wakandans saturated with Vibranium? I mean, like on a parts per million level? The intro of Black Panther describes how the plant life of Wakanda is saturated with Vibranium...which means trace levels of it are in the food chain. After generations of living there, the Wakandans have to have it in their tissues. Can't remember if it was Christopher Priest's run or after but someone did tie that in for a bit but I remember it didn't pop up much after an initial moment or two. Would be nice if someone brought that up in a future arc if we have anyone that is going to work on Marvel at some point. If no-one else does then I will totally steal that if I work for Marvel but I will give you credit as I LOVE that idea. It does make a certain amount of sense that it would have an effect on the populace for good or ill and making it a bonus could lead to some interesting arcs.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:47
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tsob posted:I'd think an ever bigger setback is that he seems to have changed his priorities and wanted to be a better person already before he died. gently caress me. It took me a spit take and a "wait WHAT?" before I realised you meant Skurge not Karl Urban
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Mar 30, 2021 21:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm also going to echo what others have said, which was that the 'couples' therapy' scene kind of stopped the episode dead in its tracks for me, and was the only negative part of the episode. Otherwise it was great. I enjoyed the Couple's Therapy for the most part, though it did drag a little. Either way "If Cap was wrong about you maybe he was wrong about me too," saved the scene completely imo. Really reframed how Bucky's been acting in a great way, he's not just an angsty heartthrob torturing himself as penance, he's harboring real doubts about if he's even a good person after what he's done, perhaps even doubts that he's a person at all.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:53
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tsob posted:Yeah, I just figured he was human+; stronger, faster, smarter etc. Seems fine. I'm assuming most everyone in the MCU has some strain of human+ going on at this point, including the people who supposedly don't have powers. Hawkeye being incapable of missing and hitting a perfect game of golf as an example makes far more sense if he has some level of metahuman hand-eye coordination going on somehow or other. Back in the day, Marvel used to release Guide comics that were just collections of one page character synopses with power level ratings. That got pretty granular and developed the term “peak human”. Before The Ultimates and the MCU really ratcheted up their strength and durability, Captain America and Black Panther were considered the prime examples of peak human. Basically, that means they could enter the Olympics and win Gold in any event while setting new records. The writers would literally look up how much the current record Olympian dead lift was and add a 100lbs to it describe how much Captain America lift. All while also have beating the best mile run record by a few seconds and being the best gymnast ever. Honestly, that level of physical synergy would be scraping superhuman. So, Hawkeye would have peak human eyesight and hand eye coordination while having the physique of a normal human with good physical conditioning. And, to return to the debate about if Walker has had the serum yet, I’d say he is actually “peak human”, but not juiced.
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Mar 30, 2021 21:56
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AJA posted:It's really not that bizarre, it's just your own words. Again, for the cheap seats; Yvonmukluk posted:Let's see, we saw the US government take the shield via deception from Sam As for Isaiah, they haven't said anything about him being Cap, just that the serum experiments screwed him up (and implied others). I know who Isaiah is in the comics, but unless he becomes a greater part of this show's narrative, using the name is just an easter egg and I think people expect too much - especially since everyone was SO convinced WandaVision was leading to Mephisto and Pietro was from X-Men, and then was disappointed when the show didn't do exactly what they wanted. Considering they left him shortly after that and are going to Germany now, and the Flagsmashers are based in Europe, I don't know how much of a part of the story the US side of this will actually be once the Zemo plot gets rolling. sticklefifer fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 21:56
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sticklefifer posted:
Do you think Sam would have given up the Shield if he thought they were going to put it on a Captain America they had hand-selected? The fact that they lied about putting in the Smithsonian to get it out of the hands of a Black Man and give it to a White Man is pretty relevant.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:03
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Sanguinia posted:I enjoyed the Couple's Therapy for the most part, though it did drag a little. Either way "If Cap was wrong about you maybe he was wrong about me too," saved the scene completely imo. Really reframed how Bucky's been acting in a great way, he's not just an angsty heartthrob torturing himself as penance, he's harboring real doubts about if he's even a good person after what he's done, perhaps even doubts that he's a person at all. I feel like putting Hela on the Thunderbolts would be far too much. She is one of the most powerful figures in the MCU. I feel like traditionally the Thunderbolts are for the mid-level villains and not the upper-tier ones.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:15
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I don't know how good his actual actor was on Agents of SHIELD, but bring in Absorbing Man. Or maybe have Thunderbolts contract the Wrecking Crew. That could be a really fun way to introduce them.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes that line was good, but the jokes were just kind of cringey. Her power comes from Asgard which is destroyed even if she somehow survived. Or any number of ways to make her less powerful.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:23
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I feel like they already have enough people they can use, between Abomination, Ghost, Justin Hammer, Zemo, Taskmaster (if he survives BW), and maybe someone like John Walker. There are probably other characters that I am forgetting. I know someone suggested Agatha Harkness as the magic user but they could instead introduce a new character who hasn't appeared in the MCU yet.
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Mar 30, 2021 22:26
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Edmund Lava posted:Her power comes from Asgard which is destroyed even if she somehow survived. Or any number of ways to make her less powerful. The fact that half the universe died and then undied, plus Loki, Gamora and Vision returning, has rendered death meaningless. e: or she cannot bring her full powers to bear because she's too distracted trying to figure out if Ralph Bohner is actually Quicksilver and so should be dead. Daduzi fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Mar 30, 2021 |
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Mar 30, 2021 22:26
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Marsupial Ape posted:Back in the day, Marvel used to release Guide comics that were just collections of one page character synopses with power level ratings. That got pretty granular and developed the term “peak human”. The only way I can personally reconcile what these people are able to do in the MCU is to believe that the super soldier serum/plant literally somehow gave them superhuman gamma abilities rather than just peak human. They all seem twice as strong as the most juiced up strongman and able to run twice as fast as the fastest human ever. Since Hulk came about as a failed experiment into the super soldier serum my theory is that they're all just a bunch of watered down hulklings who got the morphine version of the drug while Banner got the fentanyl one.
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Mar 30, 2021 23:18
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