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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)
 
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Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Anyway, I think the DPP knows the consequences of what independence will mean and why everything is about pushing it to the edge but not going over it.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:26 on Mar 30, 2021

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stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Mainland can win it with a blcocade but Beijing is not going to do it only because 1 Beijing want to show Taiwanese people it can win the war convincingly and 2 it wants to show the world it can take over the island with high tech modern weapons.

Look, just sit and see how many 075 China will build, you don't have to speculate on what Beijing is planning to do.

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Military arms race dick-waving is a great power practice that China is indulging in. It remains to be seen if they are also going to indulge in the practice of preemptive war. The latter is costlier than the former.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

A lot of it depends on how heavy the nationalists are in terms of power, or how nationalistic you feel the chinese government is

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
I think the PRC is nationalistic, but not suicidally so. Their clear goal is a long range plan to supplant the US and so far it has been generally going to plan. I don't see how some "high tech war" against Taiwan fits into that plan beyond the PRC building its military up.

I mean Taiwan is important, but it is really that important compared to all the other projects China has going on?

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC
Ukraine blocks Chinese takeover of jet engine maker on US urging

So the biggest problem with China's J-20 aircraft is its engine. The first models are using Russian made engines. The same that the Su-27 use along with the older J-10. These were to be replaced with homemade Xian WS-15, but things haven't panned out with those. So the Shenyang WS-10C is currently being used to the interim. Beijing Skyrizon Aviation acquiring Motor Sich would have been a big boost in that effort, but well read the headline again.

H&M shops in China forced to close amid Xinjiang backlash

quote:

SHANGHAI -- Some H&M outlets in China have been forced by landlords to shutter their doors, while a government official said the Swedish fashion retailer and other foreign brands should refrain from politicizing business decisions, as the backlash continued against the company over its previous comments on forced labor in Xinjiang.

As ethnic armies unite against coup, war returns to Myanmar's borderlands

The Karen National Union and Kachin Independence Army have resumed attacks against the army. The Arakan Army and other forces are vowing to join the fighting if the military killings do not stop. A joint resistance announcement may come on April 1st. The various ethnic armed factions are estimated to be able to rally 75,000 against the 350,000 of the Myanmar army.

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
This meme that combines Chinese state TV WW2 fantasy drama and capitalist I-can't-believe-its-not-anime mobile game is for BrutalistMcDonald.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/mgf2k2/fire_the_cannon_translated/

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

OhFunny posted:

Ukraine blocks Chinese takeover of jet engine maker on US urging

So the biggest problem with China's J-20 aircraft is its engine. The first models are using Russian made engines. The same that the Su-27 use along with the older J-10. These were to be replaced with homemade Xian WS-15, but things haven't panned out with those. So the Shenyang WS-10C is currently being used to the interim. Beijing Skyrizon Aviation acquiring Motor Sich would have been a big boost in that effort, but well read the headline again.

I just looked at what Motor Sich makes and it is mostly turbofan engines for transport aircraft and helicopters. Obviously, still strategic but I don't think it much do with the J-20. As far as the J-20 goes, I think Beijing is waiting for Izdeliye 30 to finally be finished but that is still a few years away.

The Izdeliye 30 would be somewhere between the performance of the engines on a F-22 versus a F-35.

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 21:31 on Mar 30, 2021

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Lol I cannot believe they restarted the civil war

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

No idea how trustworthy this source is, but it's a somewhat detailed article on the acquisition from last year.

https://www.mei.edu/publications/why-ukraine-secret-weapon-chinas-airpower

quote:

Motor Sich is the only aeroengine enterprise from the Soviet era still capable of producing an entire jet engine completely on its own. In contrast, most Russian engine firms have lost so many personnel and other assets since the fall of the USSR that they require three or more firms working cooperatively to design and build a single new engine.

The original plan was for Motor Sich to form a joint company called Beijing Skyrizon with a Chinese industrial group. A plant was built in Chongqing in Sichuan Province with the Chinese firm intending to acquire a controlling packet of shares in the Ukrainian firm. Motor Sich would then move their most skilled personnel and technological processes to the plant in the PRC.

The argument isn't that they were making the needed engines, but that they could move the organization over to China and turn it into something that can produce the engines needed.

Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 23:01 on Mar 30, 2021

Ardennes
May 12, 2002
Yeah but that personnel doesn’t have experience with making high performance fighter engines in the first place,. I don’t know how it would seriously help them.

Atrocious Joe
Sep 2, 2011

https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1376321521120116737?s=20

what's a maritime militia

Judakel
Jul 29, 2004
Probation
Can't post for 9 years!

beautiful boaters

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Probably was referring to this
https://twitter.com/ckoettl/status/1375094266767290368?s=20

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007


Does the US think they're all Trojan Horses with PLA super soldiers on board or something, what's the problem?

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Maximo Roboto posted:

Taiwan as a "rogue state" looks very different from the actual "rogue states" that great powers have been loving with since the end of the Cold War, from Iraq to Ukraine.

Tbf this could change pretty quickly assuming a chinese blockade. Resource starved countries typically become "belligerent" relatively quickly.

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Ardennes posted:

Anyway, I think the DPP knows the consequences of what independence will mean and why everything is about pushing it to the edge but not going over it.

I will say that Taiwan has emulated the US in one critical aspect. Centering the foundations of it's liberal democracy on culture war nonsense, in order to distract from the relative impotence of the state itself.

Unfortunately this political strategy does not seem to have a good long term prognosis

mila kunis
Jun 10, 2011

OhFunny posted:

Ukraine blocks Chinese takeover of jet engine maker on US urging

So the biggest problem with China's J-20 aircraft is its engine. The first models are using Russian made engines. The same that the Su-27 use along with the older J-10. These were to be replaced with homemade Xian WS-15, but things haven't panned out with those. So the Shenyang WS-10C is currently being used to the interim. Beijing Skyrizon Aviation acquiring Motor Sich would have been a big boost in that effort, but well read the headline again.

H&M shops in China forced to close amid Xinjiang backlash


As ethnic armies unite against coup, war returns to Myanmar's borderlands

The Karen National Union and Kachin Independence Army have resumed attacks against the army. The Arakan Army and other forces are vowing to join the fighting if the military killings do not stop. A joint resistance announcement may come on April 1st. The various ethnic armed factions are estimated to be able to rally 75,000 against the 350,000 of the Myanmar army.

i need to get around to listening RWN's episode on myanmar's ethnic militias

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
I hope China doesn’t go to war with anyone :)

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

Can you see that I am serious?
Fun Shoe

Not So Fast posted:

Does the US think they're all Trojan Horses with PLA super soldiers on board or something, what's the problem?

well usually this kind of thing is your bog standard "we're going to violate territorial waters to fish here and you can't catch us"

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Western analysts maintain a position that any and all Chinese fishing vessels are, in part or in whole, manned by Chinese "militiamen", as in trained members of the PLA/PLAN.

This allows them to call fishing vessels a "maritime militia", and any presence of such fishing vessels as being a part of a plot to seize territory and/or intrude on a nation's territorial waters. Whereas if a fishing ship from Taiwan or Vietnam enters a disputed area in the South China Sea that might be waved-off as an innocuous thing where you maybe let them off with a warning for crossing some line but the Coast Guard / Navy lets them on their merry way, once a Chinese fishing vessel does it, it's the equivalent of an armed warship, since the assertion is that the fishing ship carries with it a militarized crew.

It's similar to how China watchers will say that any Chinese company is necessarily a state-owned or state-controlled company, so that if Huawei is spying on you, that's not just bad on account of Huawei doing it, it's bad because the data gets passed on to Beijing. Or if it's a Chinese construction firm that's developing infrastructure, that's not just bad account of a "debt trap" accusation, it's also bad because it's a state-owned company.

Another facet of this sort of thing was when a number of online gambling companies were running their operations out of the Philippines, and accusations flew about how the call center employees were either Chinese spies or members of the PLA.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?
honestly if I got to pick who is spying on me between Google/Apple/facebook/Samsung and the CCP, I’m rolling with Xi

stephenthinkpad
Jan 2, 2020
Fishing in disputed water is kind of like what China and India were doing in the disputed Pangong Lake area: each side take turn to patrol the the disputed area to make their own territorial claims but has unwritten understanding to avoid encountering each other. That is, until some other diplomatic issues raise the temperature and the soldiers start pushing each other, and then escalate to bats with barbwire.

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 01:56 on Mar 31, 2021

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

tbh the only thing keeping Taiwan safe right now is TSMC lol

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.
I'll bet SMIC's networks are under constant attack now.

KaptainKrunk
Feb 6, 2006


what was with the sunflower movement

seemed like an op

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Ardennes posted:

I think the PRC is nationalistic, but not suicidally so. Their clear goal is a long range plan to supplant the US and so far it has been generally going to plan. I don't see how some "high tech war" against Taiwan fits into that plan beyond the PRC building its military up.

Waging an unnecessary preemptive war spilling blood and treasure would be a very U.S. move, symbolically announcing the ascension of a new hegemon.

Dreddout posted:

Tbf this could change pretty quickly assuming a chinese blockade. Resource starved countries typically become "belligerent" relatively quickly.

I was also referring to the high standard of living and level of development. When was the last time such a nation been threatened existentially, Kuwait? And what was anything comparable prior to that, the Iran-Iraq War? World War II?

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
xi jinping teaming up on a hip-hop mixtape

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C59oy6hUd4A

most of these rap videos are not very good, but this kid kills it. and what's interesting to me is that he's inside a history museum ("embedded within history") next to terracotta-style red army soldiers while wearing a shirt from a petroleum engineering academy. and we're going to have an ideological new cold war? what's the U.S. ideology offering him? like... lol. wang huning knows what he's doing

BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 15:04 on Mar 31, 2021

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://mobile.twitter.com/Anne_MarieBrady/status/1377058749005750272

Hedenius
Aug 23, 2007
https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/1376924597128286210?s=21

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:


the military budget one in particular is lol

Red and Black
Sep 5, 2011


amazing

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012


Lipstick Apathy
they gave us military budget

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Reuters: Database reveals secrets of China's loans to developing nations, says study

quote:

DAKAR (Reuters) - The terms of China’s loan deals with developing countries are unusually secretive and require borrowers to prioritise repayment of Chinese state-owned banks ahead of other creditors, a study of a cache of such contracts showed on Wednesday.

The dataset - compiled over three years by AidData, a U.S. research lab at the College of William & Mary - comprises 100 Chinese loan contracts with 24 low- and middle-income countries, a number of which are struggling under mounting debt burdens amid the economic fallout from the COVID-10 pandemic.

Much focus has turned to the role of China, which is the world’s biggest creditor, accounting for 65% of official bilateral debt worth hundreds of billions of dollars across Africa, Eastern Europe, Latin America and Asia.

“China is the world’s largest official creditor, but we lack basic facts about the terms and conditions of its lending,” the authors, including Anna Gelpern, a law professor at Georgetown University in the United States, wrote in their paper.

The researchers at AidData, the Washington-based Center for Global Development (CGD), Germany’s Kiel Institute and the Peterson Institute for International Economics compared Chinese loan contracts with those of other major lenders to produce the first systematic evaluation of the legal terms of China’s foreign lending, according to CGD.

Their analysis uncovered several unusual features to the agreements that expanded standard contract tools to boost the chances of repayment, they said in the 77-page report.

These include confidentiality clauses that prevent borrowers from revealing the terms of the loans, informal collateral arrangements that benefit Chinese lenders over other creditors and promises to keep the debt out of collective restructurings - dubbed by the authors as “no Paris Club” clauses, the report said. The contracts also give substantial leeway for China to cancel loans or accelerate repayment, it added.

Scott Morris, a senior fellow at CGD and co-author of the report, said the findings raised questions about China’s role as one of the G20 group of major economies that has agreed a “common framework” designed to help poorer nations cope with the financial pressure of COVID-19 by allowing them to overhaul debt burdens.

The framework calls for comparable treatment of all creditors, including private lenders, but he said most of the contracts examined prohibit countries from restructuring those loans on equal terms and in coordination with other creditors.

“That’s a very striking prohibition, and it seems to run counter to the commitments the Chinese are making at the G20,” Morris told Reuters, though he added that it was possible China would simply not enforce those clauses in its loan contracts.

The Chinese foreign ministry did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

China has said in the past that its financial institutions, and not just the country’s official creditors, were working to help ease the debt woes of African nations.

It also said in November that it had extended debt relief to developing countries worth a combined $2.1 billion under the G20 programme, the highest among the group’s members in terms of the amount deferred.

The material examined by researchers for the study includes 23 contracts struck with Cameroon, 10 with Serbia and Argentina as well as eight with Ecuador.

In January, the World Bank warned that several countries were in urgent need of debt relief due to the severity of the global recession triggered by the COVID-19 pandemic.

so despite how nefarious the headline makes it sound like, if you read through the article, what it actually reveals is that China's loan terms are more forgiving towards its debtors, and that it has refused to engage in the kinds of practices that would otherwise gently caress over debtors.

anyway, if you look into the Center for Global Development, it was founded by Edward W Scott, who was also founder and director of the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Peterson refers to Pete Peterson, co-founder of the Blackstone Group and an entire media ecosystem designed to promote austerity and budget cuts

other co-founders of the CGD include C. Fred Bergsten, who served in Nixon's National Security Council as Kissinger's economics adviser, as well as Nancy Birdsall, former director of policy research at the World Bank

the current head of the Board of Directors of the CGD, elected in 2014 and has been serving since, is Lawrence Summers

quote:

CGD hosts about 200 public and private events a year that draw more than 7,000 participants.[51] Events have featured speakers such as U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, President of Nigeria Goodluck Jonathan, economist Paul Romer, UK Secretary of State for International Development Andrew Mitchell, among many others.[52]

During Secretary Hillary Clinton’s visit to CGD on January 6, 2010, she emphasized the importance of development and said it was “time to elevate development as a central pillar of our foreign policy and to rebuild USAID into the world's premier development agency”.[53] CGD hosts an annual lecture series called the Sabot Lecture series, in honor of the late development economist Richard "Dick" Sabot. Each year, the Sabot Lecture hosts a scholar-practitioner who has made significant contributions to international development, combining academic work with leadership in the policy community. Past Sabot speakers include Lawrence Summers, Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, Lord Nicholas Stern, Kemal Dervis and Kenneth Rogoff.[54]

oh yeah and I did mention CGD makes all contributions over 100k USD public? let's have a look:





and that's just cuts from their 2021 data!

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

gradenko_2000 posted:

It's similar to how China watchers will say that any Chinese company is necessarily a state-owned or state-controlled company, so that if Huawei is spying on you, that's not just bad on account of Huawei doing it, it's bad because the data gets passed on to Beijing.

but this part is entirely true. its also true in the west, we just pretend that Google and Facebook are not state controlled so that they are allowed to do censorship

Centrist Committee
Aug 6, 2019

Rutibex posted:

but this part is entirely true. its also true in the west, we just pretend that Google and Facebook are not state controlled so that they are allowed to do censorship

“public private partnership”

the extra syllables means it is different

Dreddout
Oct 1, 2015

You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you.

Maximo Roboto posted:


I was also referring to the high standard of living and level of development. When was the last time such a nation been threatened existentially, Kuwait? And what was anything comparable prior to that, the Iran-Iraq War? World War II?

High standards of living are conditional on goods getting in and out of the country, something China will sooner or later be able to prevent taiwan from doing.

The closest analogue would probably be the dprk, a relatively well off society suddenly finding itself without a friend in the world (that can import food and energy)

DesertIslandHermit
Oct 7, 2019

It's beautiful. And it's for the god of...of...arts and crafts. I think that's what he said.

-poo poo in my pants

Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

These are rough numbers but in 2017 Taiwan exports are ~28.5% china bound, and about 12.7% hong kong bound, which accounts for like 22% of Taiwan's total GDP that year. 20% of Taiwan's imports are from China.

USA is only 11% of Taiwan's export economy, and you can imagine in 2021 things are leaning even more heavily toward China.

https://www.trade.gov.tw/english/Pages/Detail.aspx?nodeID=94&pid=651991&dl_DateRange=all&txt_SD=&txt_ED=&txt_Keyword=&Pageid=0

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Antonymous
Apr 4, 2009

also like 2% of Taiwan's total population lives in Mainland for work reasons

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