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Ola posted:Use F# to write the business rules. Tell the business people that they can write their own rules by sending an email to automatedrules@company.com, where an AI will figure it out, test it and deploy it in two business days (no AI on weekends and evenings due to cloud rates). It will work and will only be a small lie. Tell them it's a neural net rather than an AI.
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Apr 2, 2021 20:51
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ultrafilter posted:Tell them it's a neural net rather than an AI. Yeah that will stand better up to scrutiny than Arrogant Intelligence.
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Apr 2, 2021 20:56
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I'm sort of conflicted because I like logic programming but I've never seen rules engines get used in an organization because they're all fans of logic programming. Where I've been it's because they wanted a scripting plugin but didn't know about one so it's like "Let's use Drools because it's for business!" But for situations where it's logic that sort of makes sense in the database but you can't put it in the database because of whatever reason, there's a lot of potential.
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Apr 3, 2021 01:13
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Rules engines and contexts reminded me of a place I used to work. It was a Spring 2 or 3 web app (so no annotations, all xml baby) that had an ominously named class called BusinessController. It was nominally an MVC app but the view did nothing other than return a string for which template to use and the model did all the sql’ing. Every controller extended BusinessController and also was required to be a bean with a no-args constructor. Want to pass args from one controller to another? Create a new default controller instance of your choice, and then call any setters you need to for parameters and then call a doLifecycle() method that would pass off the controller to a weird rules-engine-like lifecycle manager which would do the single action your controller could do and then return a big bag of poo poo that you probably didn’t need most of (like a context for rendering it to the template when you just wanted to get some rows from a table). The dude responsible had been there for 17 years and was the only one willing to touch it, but it handled at least a quarter of our business.
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Apr 3, 2021 01:35
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In my experience rules engines are made by people who mistakenly believe that if you have a rules engine then non-programmers can use it
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Apr 3, 2021 16:23
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when you think about it regex is the ultimate rules engine
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Apr 3, 2021 16:55
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NtotheTC posted:when you think about it regex is the ultimate rules engine all businesses should now implement their entire line of business software in one very long backtracking enabled regular expression
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Apr 3, 2021 16:55
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Biowarfare posted:all businesses should now implement their entire line of business software in one very long backtracking enabled regular expression 
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Apr 3, 2021 20:29
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Qwertycoatl posted:In my experience rules engines are made by people who mistakenly believe that if you have a rules engine then non-programmers can use it I think the problem is that they're sold by people who believe that because most people think that procedural programming is the only sort of programming that exists. No procedures means no programming. If they use objects it's to create an instance that then has the procedures as methods. Functional programming they just don't get why it has the limitations it does. Finally logic programming just doesn't make sense at all to the point that most professional programmers can't effectively use it. The people who actually make rules engines are people who are way more into logic programming than everyone else and really wish that other people could see the light of how much it simplifies things. I used an event-driven nondeterministic finite state machine called SCXML (at least that's the spec) and it drove me up the wall that everyone was looking at it as this sort of flowchart program when it's the exact opposite. It's actually really meant for handling all the possible complex state changes of a graphical UI or the like and not some stupid flowcharts that they hacked the whole thing into. So much wasted potential.
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Apr 3, 2021 22:40
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I think rule engines exists because they think programmers are just translators from ideas to code. Where most people don't really have a solid idea of what they want or how it works, or what to do with the edge cases. Where programming required all these things to be answered.
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Apr 4, 2021 08:34
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Tei posted:I think rule engines exists because they think programmers are just translators from ideas to code. I prefer to think of myself as a rules engineer
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Apr 4, 2021 08:50
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Soricidus posted:I prefer to think of myself as a rules engineer Didn't know you posted here, Mr. Stephen Walkom
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Apr 4, 2021 16:09
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Soricidus posted:I prefer to think of myself as a rules engineer instead you should call yourself a Judge, and walk around with a helmet on saying "I am the laws"
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Apr 4, 2021 20:37
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quote:Tui plane in ‘serious incident’ after every ‘Miss’ on board was assigned child’s weight https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca
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Apr 9, 2021 04:32
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pre:[ ] - Child - 35kg [ ] - Adult - 69kg [ X ] - Goon - 100+kg
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Apr 9, 2021 04:50
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca Yeesh. Thankfully little Bobby Tables wasn't on the manifest.
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Apr 9, 2021 04:52
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Look, the computer says we need -1000 tons of fuel so drain the loving tanks already!
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Apr 9, 2021 06:29
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I wondered why there was always such peppy takeoffs every time I fly with my German friend Max Int.
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Apr 9, 2021 09:44
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Obviously it's been a while since I last travelled anywhere by air, but I feel like when I did, I had to tell the airline how old I was. Am I imagining that? Surely they know how old their passengers are. Why are they guessing at weight based on whether the person is a "miss" or a "ms"? What weight do they assign for a "mr" (which could be an adult or a child)?
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Apr 9, 2021 09:45
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Hammerite posted:Obviously it's been a while since I last travelled anywhere by air, but I feel like when I did, I had to tell the airline how old I was. Am I imagining that? Surely they know how old their passengers are. Why are they guessing at weight based on whether the person is a "miss" or a "ms"? What weight do they assign for a "mr" (which could be an adult or a child)? Well you see it’s rude to ask a lady her age,
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Apr 9, 2021 09:53
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Let's ask her weight instead.
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Apr 9, 2021 16:11
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Hammerite posted:Obviously it's been a while since I last travelled anywhere by air, but I feel like when I did, I had to tell the airline how old I was. Am I imagining that? Surely they know how old their passengers are. Why are they guessing at weight based on whether the person is a "miss" or a "ms"? What weight do they assign for a "mr" (which could be an adult or a child)? Yeah, this is what stands out for me. I'm trying to imagine how broken the programming process must be for them if they felt like they could (or had to) infer passenger weight from the honorific field. It's not far-fetched that things could be hosed up to that degree, but the details escape my imagination.
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Apr 9, 2021 19:24
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Maybe: - Booking system has a wide table that includes age - Ticket printing process uses a view that strips fields like age which aren't printed - On-day passenger manifest system uses amended data derived from the printing process Then I could see someone deciding they want to be clever to skip joining the original database (it's a different server, this is much more responsive) or worse the data's already lost the primary key and updating all the processes to carry it through is too much effort.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:17
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Probably a program manager somewhere decided that the age column should only be made available to the Marketing group
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Apr 10, 2021 01:05
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I wrote a ticket system for a airplane company once. This is european/spain rules, so I don't know if apply to other systems. Fun facts: - Childrens can fly alone. - Childrens pay a lower price ticket. - Chidrens pay 1 ticket, and have a baby on their lap, two for the price of one!. You can send your 9 years old with a newborn to other part of the country really cheap. - Families get a discount. Natives from the isles get a discount. If the kid and the newborn are family and from a isle, all these discounts stack. Not so fun facts: Tickets are not really that expensive. Is all the tax and fares that stack up to a big price.
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Apr 10, 2021 22:11
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Did you all get the lecture in programming school about times software errors killed people, like Therac 25 and the patriot missile rounding errors?
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Apr 11, 2021 04:22
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Did you all get the lecture in programming school about times software errors killed people, like Therac 25 and the patriot missile rounding errors? It was at most one lecture, but yes. Why do you ask?
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Apr 11, 2021 04:24
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pokeyman posted:It was at most one lecture, but yes. Got any good stories like that?
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Apr 11, 2021 04:27
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Got any good stories like that? I have one from a friend's real experience -- no injuries but clear potential for some edit: snipped because I don't feel comfy sharing the chatlogs actually, but essentially a bunch of startup tech people using a huge robot robot arm that could tear off your arm and injured my friend multiple times because of haptics issues from electromagnetic interference interfering with clock syncs also it had an internal SQL database to control its motorics Jewel fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 04:38
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Got any good stories like that? Just the ones you mentioned  I'm convinced that daylight saving time changes have casualties (directly attributable, like some car navigation system goes haywire at the clock change and sends someone off a cliff, not some vague "study shows 0.1% increase in injuries on Monday after time change") but I have yet to actually prove it.
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Apr 11, 2021 04:53
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Got any good stories like that? $500 million kaboom after integer overflow. https://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/case-studies/ariane5/
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Apr 11, 2021 05:00
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Ola posted:$500 million kaboom after integer overflow. And in UI land, a $500 million misclick. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/citibank-just-got-a-500-million-lesson-in-the-importance-of-ui-design/
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Apr 11, 2021 06:41
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darthbob88 posted:And in UI land, a $500 million misclick. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/citibank-just-got-a-500-million-lesson-in-the-importance-of-ui-design/ Or Knight Capital, who lost roughly the same amount in 45 minutes due to lack of deployment automation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_Capital_Group
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Apr 11, 2021 07:25
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Oh I have one with personal experience that I'm actually allowed to talk about JAXA's X-Ray Satellite "Hitomi" was launched in 2016 and produced data for about 1 month, and apparently its collections were of such high-quality that it was beyond compare. Like really revolutionary, high-value science was already being done with what little had been collected, and it was planned to remain operational for 3 years. But then a software patch switched the sign in an attitude control calculation, which would cause any future orientation corrections to be made in the wrong direction. Then an inertial reference unit failed, causing it to misreport a big orientation problem. "Oh this sensor says that the star field isn't oriented exactly how I expected, let me correct that." *check star field again* "Oh the star field is even worse than before, let me correct that." *satellite begins spinning faster and faster, as it continues to make larger and larger corrections but always performs them in the wrong direction*. "WHAT THE gently caress, go to emergency mode and just try to stop spinning" *thrusters fire but make the spin even worse* *satellite literally explodes* By the time that anyone noticed that there was a problem contact had already been lost, and later that day the satellite was spinning so fast that it tore itself apart. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitomi_(satellite) I didn't have anything to do with any of that poo poo, I just pointed a telescope at the thing after it had already broken into pieces
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Apr 11, 2021 07:33
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Tei posted:I wrote a ticket system for a airplane company once. This is european/spain rules, so I don't know if apply to other systems. I heard KLM has this service - or at least had it, where you could pay extra for a KLM buddy to be with the kid for the entire trip so they don't have to navigate check-in, customs, the way to the gates and whatnot, all by themselves.
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Apr 11, 2021 07:43
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QuarkJets posted:Oh I have one with personal experience that I'm actually allowed to talk about QuarkJets looking through the telescope: "yep it's hosed"
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Apr 11, 2021 08:41
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If you want to talk about programming ethics I had to work on NBA Ballers 3: Chosen One
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Apr 11, 2021 09:12
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more falafel please posted:If you want to talk about programming ethics I had to work on NBA Ballers 3: Chosen One
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Apr 11, 2021 09:31
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:QuarkJets looking through the telescope: "yep it's hosed" Pretty much, like "uh yeah I see the bus, but where are its solar panels? Oh they're over there"
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Apr 11, 2021 10:27
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Carbon dioxide posted:I heard KLM has this service - or at least had it, where you could pay extra for a KLM buddy to be with the kid for the entire trip so they don't have to navigate check-in, customs, the way to the gates and whatnot, all by themselves. This is standard in the US, and for unaccompanied kids under 16, you don't get to opt out of paying for it.
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Apr 11, 2021 14:55
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