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So many people involved in the production of GoT had good intentions and considerable talent, it really is a crying tragedy that our hosed up world allows privileged talentless shitbags to rise to the top and so carelessly destroy the efforts of other people. GoT is just a very high profile example of a guy totally high on the smell of his own farts surrounding himself with yes-men who celebrate his poor decisions to the detriment of the entire project. But in a way GoT is also one of the rare occasions where the flop was so massive that people do know who's to blame for it, so I guess that's good, at least Benioff didn't get to make his Star War.
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Apr 3, 2021 19:09
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The shows only mistake was stopping at dual wielding and not continuing with triple quadruple and quintuple wielding.
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Apr 3, 2021 20:19
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Dual weilding always looks stupid, because it is stupid. Either give them proper armor and have them two hand their longswords properly, or give them sheilds.nine-gear crow posted:I'd add Dany to that mix too. Jon stabs the Night King with Longclaw, but it doesn't work, so he's stuck with a very pissed off Night King on the end of his sword. Dany swoops in on Drogon, sees that basically everything is lost and makes the very ambiguous choice to go "Dracarys!" on both Jon and the Night King in a last ditch effort. Ice and Fire coming together at long last pushes it all over the top and when the flames recede, the Night King shatters and Jon is left standing there completely fine because he's Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name, and fire can't kill a dragon. This would have been such a better moment god drat
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Apr 3, 2021 20:27
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Elephanthead posted:The shows only mistake was stopping at dual wielding and not continuing with triple quadruple and quintuple wielding. One Piece did it
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Apr 3, 2021 20:28
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Game of Thrones is in the new Space Jam so I'm just going to pretend the canonical ending is Lebron defeating the Night King with a Chaos Dunk.
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Apr 3, 2021 20:33
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TV's more of a visual medium than books and they decided they wanted to show the tower of joy so they needed some explanation of how 3 swordsmen almost defeated 7 swordsmen. I don't think 'Arthur Dayne used two swords' is a great explanation but 'They almost won because Arthur Dayne was the greatest swordsman who ever lived' is difficult to convey on TV.
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Apr 3, 2021 20:45
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TOOT BOOT posted:TV's more of a visual medium than books and they decided they wanted to show the tower of joy so they needed some explanation of how 3 swordsmen almost defeated 7 swordsmen. I don't think 'Arthur Dayne used two swords' is a great explanation but 'They almost won because Arthur Dayne was the greatest swordsman who ever lived' is difficult to convey on TV. GOT had an infinite budget so with any other show I'd wave it away and say "ok they probably couldn't do the following suggestion" but there's a fairly easy way of conveying Arthur Dayne as a great swordsman without him just twirling two swords like a cosplaying dumbass, and most good shows/ movies do this with a big bad guy in that you have that flashback show Ned and his crew, especially Ned though, actually fighting in the battle prior to going to the tower, just overall being amazing fighters so you get some idea of how awesome Ned and his mates were in that sense THEN they run into Dayne who just owns the poo poo out of them in a 6 on 1 battle or whatever it was with his single sword. As it stands Dayne just kills 5 nameless dudes that for all the viewers know were the worst swordsman in Westeros. Or you know I appreciate the show might not have the time for that so if you want to make Danye more of a legend, just dont have Ned stand toe to toe with him, have him easily kill the others and basically toy with Ned, cut him to ribbons, have him exhausted nearly passing out from blood loss with Dayne ordering him to surrender but Ned being Ned he wont, and if you really want a nice twist then when Dayne knocks away his sword and perhaps tries to take Ned alive, have the honourable Ned Stark pull out a dagger and shank him, that would add a nice dark past to Ned's character (and show how desperate he was to reach his sister) rather than have Reed, a character NO ONE who watched the show cared about, come out of nowhere.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:21
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Zaphod42 posted:One Piece did it what's a swordsman's mouth good for if not as another place to hold swords?
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Apr 3, 2021 21:30
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You guys are doing a lot of knocking on the Tower of Joy fight and regarding Arthur Dayne dual wielding, but at the time? On the evening of the day it aired? That poo poo was loving dope as hell.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:31
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Yeah of all the things to complain about that scene is not even close to the top of the pile
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Apr 3, 2021 21:35
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Collapsing Farts posted:Yeah of all the things to complain about that scene is not even close to the top of the pile Yeeeah but all the other stuff has been nitpicked over and complained about to death, we have to go deeper.
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Apr 3, 2021 21:53
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Actually having Ned shank him would have been a good foil to watching it happen to Jory... Just Chamber is now a writer on Game of Thrones
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Apr 3, 2021 21:53
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Ned wasn't even considered a great sword fighter. A great general yeah, a great man sure. But as a swordsman he was supposed to be middling. Robert with his hammer, Jaime or Arthur Dayne he wouldn't approach in actual skill.
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Apr 3, 2021 22:09
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Don't forget greatest swordsman of the land Barristan Selmy who in the books has a lot to do but in the show he gets flanked by some dudes with daggers and welp sorry old man  Which may have been because D&D really don't like the actor because he isn't a yes-man. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 22:12
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Zaphod42 posted:Don't forget greatest swordsman of the land Barristan Selmy who in the books has a lot to do but in the show he gets flanked by some dudes with daggers and welp sorry old man Oh gently caress. Oh gently caress how did I forget Selmy. In the books he's just so much better. One of my favorites. But...they massacred my boy 
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Apr 3, 2021 22:16
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I could almost give D&D credit if the whole point was "even important characters are vulnerable to being stabbed in the back at any time" except you have moments like Arya getting shanked 10 times in the stomach and she's just... she's fine.
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Apr 3, 2021 22:19
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Captain Splendid posted:Actually having Ned shank him would have been a good foil to watching it happen to Jory... Hah! It was I, David Benioff, all along! You do love my writing after all. An insane mind posted:Ned wasn't even considered a great sword fighter. A great general yeah, a great man sure. But as a swordsman he was supposed to be middling. Robert with his hammer, Jaime or Arthur Dayne he wouldn't approach in actual skill. I mean yes you're right he wouldn't appear in "The Top Ten Fighters of Westeros ( YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE WHO'S AT NUMBER ONE!)" but he's certainly one of the more skilled swordsman in the kingdom, perhaps not so much in the book but at least the show tries to show this by having him actually make Jaime really try during their fight (until a guard stabs Ned in the leg). But if Ned is supposed to just be "ok" and Dayne perhaps the best swordsman ever, Dayne in the one on one should have just completely toyed with him rather than have Ned hold his own pretty well (until he doesnt) purely to sell Dayne really. I get Dayne took on a bunch of guys at once but it was silly twirly dual swords (and one thing I've liked about the show is the more realistic sword fights and combat) and also he killed 4 or 5 just faceless no skilled goons, at least to the viewers. Basically he's supposed to be better or on par with Barristen and we can surmise a young Barristen would easily take out a mediocre fighter like Ned. I mean even Bran in that flashback is like "woah he's better than my father" like his father is supposed to be some amazing fighter, because the writers had such little conviction in their writing or the scene they had to tell the audience "yo this guys's good". Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 22:29
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Also pour one out for Selmy, like I like the idea of him being a legend in his day, and then you know the mind is willing but the flesh is weak blah blah he's so old he cant move like he used to and so that costs him in a duel or something, but the way he went out, ugh, just awful.
Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 22:39
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the Hound tells Arya "don't be like me" probably months after Arya has killed, cooked, and served two men to their own father
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Apr 3, 2021 23:22
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PittTheElder posted:Dual weilding always looks stupid, because it is stupid. Either give them proper armor and have them two hand their longswords properly, or give them sheilds. Reminder that Spartacus was airing at the same time and just putting on an absolute clinic on fight scene choreography and cinematography. Not to mention hitting their loving story beats and delivering on a bittersweet ending. Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 3, 2021 |
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Apr 3, 2021 23:41
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Just Chamber posted:Hah! It was I, David Benioff, all along! You do love my writing after all. Is that a JoJo reference? Just Chamber posted:I mean yes you're right he wouldn't appear in "The Top Ten Fighters of Westeros ( YOU WOULDNT BELIEVE WHO'S AT NUMBER ONE!)" but he's certainty one of the more skilled swordsman in the kingdom, perhaps not so much in the book but at least the show tries to show this by having him actually make Jaime really try during their fight (until a guard stabs Ned in the leg). But if Ned is supposed to just be "ok" and Dayne perhaps the best swordsman ever, Dayne in the one on one should have just completely toyed with him rather than have Ned hold his own pretty well (until he doesnt) purely to sell Dayne really. I get Dayne took on a bunch of guys at once but it was silly twirly dual swords (and one thing I've liked about the show is the more realistic sword fights and combat) and also he killed 4 or 5 just faceless no skilled goons, at least to the viewers. Basically he's supposed to be better or on par with Barristen and we can surmise a young Barristen would easily take out a mediocre fighter like Ned. I mean even Bran in that flashback is like "woah he's better than my father" like his father is supposed to be some amazing fighter, because the writers had such little conviction in their writing or the scene they had to tell the audience "yo this guys good". Oh yeah I know what they did in the show. I was more agreeing with you that I would have liked the fight to just have been stacked against Ned so badly that we see him more readily do something against his own idea of honour...like, Dayne is just mowing through Ned's men and Ned shanks him from behind during the melee or something. Sorry if it came off as flippant 
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Apr 3, 2021 23:46
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Pattonesque posted:the Hound tells Arya "don't be like me" probably months after Arya has killed, cooked, and served two men to their own father They travel across half a continent together then at the very last door he decides to say "You're not coming"
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Apr 3, 2021 23:46
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An insane mind posted:Is that a JoJo reference? Oooh, well then my bad, sorry, I'm so used to people disagreeing on the internet or getting defensive over their fandom that's how I read it. It's all good  .Also no not a JoJo reference. I do want to watch JoJo, one day...
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Apr 3, 2021 23:58
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Pattonesque posted:the Hound tells Arya "don't be like me" probably months after Arya has killed, cooked, and served two men to their own father Also Arya and the Hound spend presumably weeks marching along a road in silence, only for them to arrive and the Hound to say "actually, turn back" Captain Splendid posted:They travel across half a continent together then at the very last door he decides to say "You're not coming" EFB Like surely after a few miles he'd be like "we need to talk"
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Apr 4, 2021 00:12
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Zaphod42 posted:Also Arya and the Hound spend presumably weeks marching along a road in silence, only for them to arrive and the Hound to say "actually, turn back" People only talk when we can see them. It's how DnDs universe works.
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Apr 4, 2021 00:24
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An insane mind posted:People only talk when we can see them. It's how DnDs universe works. Also, people only need horses when we see them, otherwise they just teleport. Also also, Dany just kinda forgets about the Iron Fleet unless they're immediately shooting one of her dragons out from under her 
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Apr 4, 2021 00:31
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Pattonesque posted:the Hound tells Arya "don't be like me" probably months after Arya has killed, cooked, and served two men to their own father The worst bit here is that Arya listens to him.
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Apr 4, 2021 00:40
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Jon got to gently caress off beyond the wall which he's probably okay with. Sansa got to be a queen. Tyrion got to be hand of the king. Bran became the three-eyed Raven, helped defeat the Others, and become King. Sam got to be a maester. Brienne got to be a knight. Almost everyone ended up exactly where they wanted to be but Dany which seems kinda lovely.
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Apr 4, 2021 00:46
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An insane mind posted:Ned wasn't even considered a great sword fighter. A great general yeah, a great man sure. But as a swordsman he was supposed to be middling. Robert with his hammer, Jaime or Arthur Dayne he wouldn't approach in actual skill. IDK, in the books Ned's dad (Rickard?) is supposed to be one of the best fighters in Westeros during his prime and presumably his kids would end up above average fighters as well. My interpretation is that Dayne murders all the mooks at the Tower of Joy, has Ned at his mercy after disarming him, and is about to explain "hey dummy we're not actually hurting your sister she's our queen and she's carrying the true heir to the crown" when Howland Reed overreacts and backstabs Dayne. Ned is probably badly outmatched by Dayne, but he also fights in the van in the Siege of Pyke and that's another battle where a lot of people give him credit for being someone that you generally don't want to gently caress with 1 on 1. They kind of get there with his fight against Jaime in S1, where Jaime is obviously playing around until Ned almost takes his head off and even when Jaime starts to actually try he can't just overwhelm Ned, it's an actual fight. nine-gear crow posted:I'd add Dany to that mix too. Jon stabs the Night King with Longclaw, but it doesn't work, so he's stuck with a very pissed off Night King on the end of his sword. Dany swoops in on Drogon, sees that basically everything is lost and makes the very ambiguous choice to go "Dracarys!" on both Jon and the Night King in a last ditch effort. Ice and Fire coming together at long last pushes it all over the top and when the flames recede, the Night King shatters and Jon is left standing there completely fine because he's Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name, and fire can't kill a dragon. It's hosed up that you wrote this because now I want it.
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Apr 4, 2021 03:20
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Mat Cauthon posted:It's hosed up that you wrote this because now I want it. Like I said, everyone on the planet has written a better Season 8 of Game of Thrones than Dan Weiss and David Benioff actually did.
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Apr 4, 2021 03:29
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Yeah I thought Ned was supposed to be a good fighter up against the best when it came to Jaime, as pre-hand loss Briene was the only other person that came somewhat close, and Jaime was famished and tired in that fight.
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Apr 4, 2021 03:49
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Collapsing Farts posted:The death of the Night King should have been a combined effort of the stark kids who were there at the scene. nine-gear crow posted:I'd add Dany to that mix too. Jon stabs the Night King with Longclaw, but it doesn't work, so he's stuck with a very pissed off Night King on the end of his sword. Dany swoops in on Drogon, sees that basically everything is lost and makes the very ambiguous choice to go "Dracarys!" on both Jon and the Night King in a last ditch effort. Ice and Fire coming together at long last pushes it all over the top and when the flames recede, the Night King shatters and Jon is left standing there completely fine because he's Aegon Targaryen, Sixth of His Name, and fire can't kill a dragon. I like this and it also makes the rest of the season better in a hilarious way if left unaltered. Sansa the Stark that contributed nothing at all in the entire series gets everything she ever wanted.
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Apr 4, 2021 05:09
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Plus it gives Dany a better reason to nuts other than "the Northmen like Jon better than me." Now it's literally "everyone saw me set Jon on fire, so they hate me now and think I'm a monster and they all like Jon better. Oh and they think he's the messiah now too. That was MY job! gently caress this bullshit, I'm going to take my anger out on everyone. Dracarys."
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Apr 4, 2021 05:25
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Now that I've seen Dany 'real' ending I think my 'headcanon' is that she decides that Westeros could never truly be her home and fucks off to Essos. (Obviously she doesn't burn King's Landing either) TOOT BOOT fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Apr 4, 2021 |
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Apr 4, 2021 05:57
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The "Real" ending will involve Fagon taking over King's Landing from Cersei and being hailed as the new rightful good King, and everybody telling Daenerys to gently caress off right as she finally gets to her home, and she loses her poo poo. But GRRM is never going to finish it anyways.
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Apr 4, 2021 06:12
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I prefer to remember Dany the way her story REALLY ended... endlessly making GBS threads herself in a grassy field with no one around for miles.
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Apr 4, 2021 08:06
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Just Chamber posted:Also pour one out for Selmy, like I like the idea of him being a legend in his day, and then you know the mind is willing but the flesh is weak blah blah he's so old he cant move like he used to and so that costs him in a duel or something, but the way he went out, ugh, just awful. Imagine Selmy at the Dragonpit meeting confronting Cersei.
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Apr 4, 2021 08:11
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Captain Splendid posted:They travel across half a continent together then at the very last door he decides to say "You're not coming"
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Apr 4, 2021 09:27
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I legit want to see the table read of the episode Selmy dies.
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Apr 4, 2021 13:43
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banned from Starbucks posted:I legit want to see the table read of the episode Selmy dies. He'd already read the books, got really excited at all the cool Selmy stuff (which imo was some of the best stuff in aDwD) and when his scripts for the season were so short he wrote Beinioff and Weiss an impassionaed letter arguing why they should keep him around. Their response was to mock him (not by name, but its pretty clearly him) at the Oxford Union and say it made them want to kill him even more.
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