|
I personally think Benjamin is definitely being turned into Hokma every cycle, it's my explanation for why he's appeared to have visibly aged as well. Basically whatever method he's resetting by isn't resetting his age or memories, so he comes back as a human however many days (up to a maximum of 13) older each day 1 reset.
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 18:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
If we're going with the Torment analogy, one could also make an argument for Benjamin as Morte, I think. (Despite the Arbiter=Dabus thing earlier, I think Binah is more like Ignus or Vhailor in her role in the plot.) No clue about the others. Myo=Annah? Netzach=Dak'kon? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Tangent, but while TQ did them the other way around, it seems like story-wise Hokma is definitely the "last" of the Sephirah, between stuff here like Angela outright calling him the last actor, his importance to A and position in the narrative, and so on. And, completion of Binah's suppression gets you "The Eye Facing the Fear; Breaking the Cycle" while Hokma's suppression yields "The Eye Embracing the Past; Building the Future". Generally order of Sephirot goes like that: Keter, Hokma, Binah, Chesed, Gebura, Tiphereth, Netzach, Hod, Yesod, Malkuth Given that Upper Layer Sephitot appeared in that order (going from the bottom, because we are going from realm of man to the realm of the divine), you are probably right.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 18:26
|
|
|
t3isukone posted:If we're going with the Torment analogy, one could also make an argument for Benjamin as Morte, I think. (Despite the Arbiter=Dabus thing earlier, I think Binah is more like Ignus or Vhailor in her role in the plot.)
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 18:37
|
|
|
Morte is One Sin, obviously.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 19:19
|
|
|
Roland Jones posted:Tangent, but while TQ did them the other way around, it seems like story-wise Hokma is definitely the "last" of the Sephirah, between stuff here like Angela outright calling him the last actor, his importance to A and position in the narrative, and so on. And, completion of Binah's suppression gets you "The Eye Facing the Fear; Breaking the Cycle" while Hokma's suppression yields "The Eye Embracing the Past; Building the Future". This is actually so cool, because 'Face the Fear, Build the Future' is LobCorp's motto. If you pull the LobCorp motto out of those two suppressions, what's left over is 'Embrace the Past, Break the Cycle'. Which is what we're doing right now.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 19:21
|
|
|
Given that our Tree of Life is reversed and digs deeply into the earth, my completely unspoiled guess* about the Tower mentioned in the White Ordeals is that's what happens when we do things right, another building will appear with everything in the 'proper' order for a Tree of Life going up from the ground. * I basically just know Library of Ruina from mentions in this thread of 'seriously it's spoilers', so if I'm right here I'm not actually posting spoilers, I'm just guessing purely based off LC symbolism and context.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 19:46
|
|
|
Judging from all kabbalistic imagery, this would be the tower of light mentioned.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 19:55
|
|
|
Well I binged this whole thread over a few days. Absolutely top-notch LP, this is easily one of the best I've ever read. I love how you're telling the story, especially how you use all the agents as characters. I never would have played this game myself -- management games aren't really my thing, and this one looks way too hard for my skill to overcome my perfectionism. I'm glad this is how I'm experiencing it instead.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 20:59
|
|
|
The project moon wonderlab comics are really quite good. https://projectmoon.postype.com/post/5873647 I don't believe there are any spoilers until comic #17.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
This scene really does illustrate and reinforce the hideous wrongs that have been done to the majority of the Sephirah. It also makes Angela a great deal more sympathetic. Her conversation with B is one that's massively off-script because it's not talking to X.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 22:20
|
|
|
MiiNiPaa posted:Judging from all kabbalistic imagery, this would be the tower of light mentioned. Congratulations!
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 22:50
|
|
|
After that description of the well I am also in favor of a Kojima introduction if  is unavailable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
I'm glad we're going to be able to reenact the biblical story of Xain and Abel.
|
|
#
?
Apr 2, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
Have a sip.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 04:40
|
|
|
Dareon posted:Have a sip. Or the forbidden bowling ball from the Beer Baron episode of the Simpsons.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 04:53
|
|
|
Rereading the update, I noticed two things in particular. First, Abel seems to subscribe to a different interpretation of the myth of Prometheus than the one I prefer (at first I was inclined to write that he misinterpreted it, but his view is admittedly a very common one, and given how far removed we are from ancient Greek culture it would be a mistake to project my own values onto them). Given how good the writers have been regarding other things involving myth and religion, I think this could easily be intentional on their part in their characterization of Abel: TeeQueue posted:
What he takes from it is a story of ambition and arrogance, one of suffering for the hubris of stealing fire from the gods. This makes sense, both because this is more or less the common view when it comes to the story and because of who Abel is: A man who had grand plans for helping humanity yet was ultimately entirely self-centered, possessing both great intelligence and great regret for his past failings. It's probably easy for him to see himself in Prometheus. But there's more to Prometheus than that. For one thing, Prometheus was the titan of forethought/foresight, which is also the meaning of his name, and a quality of his that appears in many of the myths he's part of. Including the original one, where he foresaw Zeus seeking retribution against humanity for the theft of fire as well and warned his brother, Epimetheus ("Afterthought"/"Hindsight") against ever accepting a gift from Zeus and to instead return it as it might be a way of inflicting harm upon mankind, which proved to be absolutely correct, though his brother, as one might have guessed from his name, failed to heed the warning. (Said "gift" wound up being Pandora, the first mortal woman, who was created by Zeus with the aid of the other Olympian gods to cause misery for humanity, which is a reminder that the ancient Greeks suuuuuucked when it came to their attitude towards women.) For another, in at least some myths (not sure about the very earliest ones) Prometheus either was the creator of humans or the one who put the finishing touches on humans after the gods had molded them and all other living things from clay and tasked the titan and his brother to complete the task by giving them various qualities; while Epimetheus arbitrarily and impulsively distributed various physical traits and gifts to the animals, Prometheus dedicated his attention entirely to man. He acted like something of a father to humanity, whether he was also literally such or merely "adopted" them, watching over them and trying to protect them from harm, going so far as to trick Zeus into setting precedent regarding sacrifices to the gods after he saw how much having to offer up the all the best meat was affecting them. Zeus, angry both at being tricked in and of itself and at now receiving bones, fat, and other scraps in sacrifices rather than meat, responded with what amounted to a divine temper tantrum and took fire away from humanity. Yes, away from them; they actually had access to fire up until this point in the original myths, and Prometheus's theft was stealing it back for them despite Zeus's decree. This second act of defiance towards him is what made Zeus decide to punish Prometheus himself as well as the humans his actions were meant to aid Given that one of Prometheus's defining traits was his wisdom and foresight, sometimes going so far as outright prophecy in later myths, and that he predicted Zeus's retaliation against humanity, there is little chance that he was blindsided by his own punishment; he absolutely knew that he too was likely to face consequences for his actions. He just was also okay with that, viewing them as acceptable; later myths and writings featuring him during his captivity even portray him completely unrepentant, having no regrets for what he did. After all, a father looks out for his children, even if it means hardship for himself, because he loves them. Abel is not Prometheus. If he corresponds to any figure from the myths, the one I'd say he most closely resembles is Zeus: The cruel and neglectful creator who responded to slights by casting the transgressor into eternal punishment. (Though this would make Angela his Pandora, which doesn't fit quite as well despite lining up in some ways, and would also suggest some very bad things about her and what she either has done or is planning to do. Especially if we stick with the original myths, where there is no indication that she's ignorant of the contents of her jar/box when she opens it, intentionally releasing them into the world.) Second, Benjamin's plan for his messages to X/A, and Angela's attempt to apparently offer him some measure of comfort before killing him and putting his brain in a box, are somewhat ironic: TeeQueue posted:
Benjamin's desire is more or less the exact opposite of Hokma's during his core suppression, while Angela's "offer" matches it perfectly: An eternity with those he cared about and lost. Hokma eventually came to want to maintain precisely what Benjamin died attempting to help A escape from.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 12:35
|
|
“Leave with me before you can no longer undo what you’ve set in motion.” That’s what you wanted to say. I’m sorry that we have to meet again like this. It did not take very long to find out where you were hiding. I thought I should have given you some time to say goodbye, since this will be the last chance you have to say such a thing to the one you look up to.
|
When you look at it that way, A could be both Zeus and Prometheus - he did indeed respond to something he didn't like by casting the offender into eternal punishment, but that offender was himself. And Angela as Pandora with the Seed of Light as the box...yeah, that's pretty accurate. After all, what is Cogito/the Well but all the evils of humanity, as well as hope?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 13:12
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 13:51
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 14:04
|
|
|
There are two constants to this thread now: philosophical debates, and amazing fan art. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 14:19
|
|
|
Taste the O R B
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 14:43
|
|
|
And remember to further add 'Greeks were lovely about women', the Curiosity thing was a later addition to the myth - Pandora basically just loving dumps the box open as soon as Epimetheus accepts her in the earliest versions for really unclear unclear reasons, which would gel with Angela as Pandora metaphor, as she's acting on a 'script'
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 14:46
|
|
|
Deadmeat5150 posted:I really really want a Tabletop RPG of this game world now. Shadowrun but SCP sounds like so much fun. Super late on this, but that's BASICALLY what Eclipse Phase It doesn't quite match, as focusing on big cities is possible but not really where missions go a lot of the time, but it's still transhumanistic cyberpunk where you deal with threats that may as well be supernatural.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 15:02
|
|
|
This just reminded me that Eclipse Phase exists and that apparently the second edition is better than the first and that I've been meaning to try it for a while now, so thanks for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 18:51
|
|
|
so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:11
|
|
|
Lunar Suite posted:so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater? Science girl bathwater.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 20:59
|
|
|
Lunar Suite posted:so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater? Cogito ergo simp
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:04
|
|
|
Lunar Suite posted:so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater?
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:05
|
|
|
I hope Abel named himself that instead of it being completely coincidental bc A is exactly the type of person who would consider himself a put-upon martyr, horribly betrayed.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
Lunar Suite posted:so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater? New thread title
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
Hwurmp posted:Cogito ergo simp No, this is the new thread title
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:14
|
|
|
In the light of recent posting, I'm suddenly very afraid of this thread's ability to generate fanart. Cogito's got nothing on this.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 21:22
|
|
|
This is a goddamn masterpiece.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 23:47
|
|
|
Lunar Suite posted:so... cogito is the ultimate gamer girl bathwater? If you think about it, Angela is just Carmen's Vtuber persona except it's an AI playing her.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2021 23:50
|
|
|
Recent contemplation on this game has led us further and further into the abyss.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
Between the deep literary analysis and also this stuff, I don't think I could like you guys any more. Never change, thread. Never change. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 07:30
|
|
|
Hwurmp posted:Cogito ergo simp lmfao
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 09:58
|
|
|
I thirst, therefore I am.
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 12:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 11, 2024 15:32 |
|
|
 take a simp, babes
|
|
#
?
Apr 4, 2021 13:04
|
|
