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Quoting for new page:Kangxi posted:VOTE: 1727 B
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Apr 5, 2021 09:05
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zealouscub posted:Is there a limit to how many religions can be harmonized with Confucianism in EU4? short of it getting modded here no, but it does take 34 years (pre-events to speed it up, which do happen), so unless we do get a specific bonus for Bon we're talking 3, maybe four religions harmonized before the end of the game. as such, I'm voting B
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Apr 5, 2021 09:38
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a
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Apr 5, 2021 09:44
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The Chinese ways have hardly brought harmony to that blighted land; they have been a realm of chaos and war for centuries! We would be fools to emulate them. B
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Apr 5, 2021 10:28
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Tibet has also been a blighted land, void of harmony! If we now rule more Chinese than anyone else, let us accommodate them a bit lest they break away in revolt! A
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Apr 5, 2021 12:32
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This is clearly some Buddhist plot to destroy the Bönpa of Tibet. I have no doubt that the Preta Tse is behind it, and has poisoned the minds of those voting to cast aside our heritage. B
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Apr 5, 2021 14:08
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B
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Apr 5, 2021 15:05
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B
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Apr 5, 2021 15:25
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Let's be ChinA.
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Apr 5, 2021 15:27
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B
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Apr 5, 2021 15:34
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Bon
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Apr 5, 2021 18:31
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The great general Dorje speaks truth! Tibet has changed, from empire to republic and back, and now grown beyond all of expectations and dreams! And yes, it was our ancestors and the way of Bon that led us here, but with such growth, surely our family has grown as well? Who better to represent our new subjects to our ancestors, to aid in their divine administration, than Confucius? We have made an empire, now let us keep it! A
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Apr 5, 2021 18:40
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Bon has served us well, it will continue to do so.
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Apr 5, 2021 20:01
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A, China always conquers its conquerers.
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Apr 5, 2021 20:06
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If China's bureaucracy was worth emulating, they wouldn't have lost to us the first time. This is the second. B.
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Apr 5, 2021 20:38
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B
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Apr 5, 2021 23:54
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A
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Apr 6, 2021 04:41
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A
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Apr 6, 2021 23:31
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A
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Apr 7, 2021 03:48
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 The vote is closed. A) Vote to adopt some Confucian rites and practices: 9 (Pacho, Flesnolk, Dance Officer, Moon Slayer, Lord Cyrahzax, RabidWeasel, zealouscub, e-dt, Alikchi) B) Vote to retain the previous style of imperial governance and Bön principles: 16 (Gravity Cant Apple, Videowitch, Rody One Half, idhrendur, TheDavies, Jeoh, TheFlyingLlama, Angry Salami, habeusdorkus, TinTower, Technowolf, Crazycryodude, SirPhoebos, RagnarokZ, megane, ThatBasqueGuy) With 25 votes, we will retain Bön. This decision is made; the crises continue.
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Apr 8, 2021 02:00
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You can't cut back on Divine Bueraucracy! You will regret this!!
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Apr 8, 2021 17:16
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Kangxi, would you mind explaining what happened mechanically in the last update?
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Apr 9, 2021 01:34
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Viola the Mad posted:Kangxi, would you mind explaining what happened mechanically in the last update? I made a custom event which had an even chance of spawning Tashi or the young Purgyal as the heir. Another custom event spawned the competitor at the head of another rebel army. Much of the rest of the update comes from higher levels of the 'unrest' stat, which arose from overextension, which was the result of the previous empress taking large amounts of territory without claims or cores very quickly. Kangxi fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Apr 9, 2021 |
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Apr 9, 2021 01:52
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Chapter 79: 1727 to 1750: Enlightened Despotism Maaza Bremane Amanuel was an ambassador from the revolutionary Anatolian Republic to the Celestial Empire of Tibet from the 1720s to the last months of 1749. A staunch republican and anti-monarchist, Maaza Amanuel was nevertheless accepted into the court and allowed to present her credentials to the Empress Tashi Dbas in 1720. Her extensive correspondence from this period, collected and published by the Tefere Assefa Abateid Foundation and Kunstantiniya University Press, presents a broad and revealing portrait of life in Lhasa under the later years of the reign of Tashi I. These extracts date from the late 1720s ('Year 10') to the final months of 1749 ('Year 32'), before her dismissal as ambassador and her subsequent return to the Anatolian Republic. To Her Imperial Majesty, Empress Tashi I of Tibet: The ambassador from the Anatolian Republic sincerely regrets that Your Imperial Majesty was unable to permit the ambassador attend these meetings on affairs of state;  where matters of moral philosophy were discussed, and the questions of rule and administration were settled, and how Tibet would rule over its vast holdings,  though naturally one understands the importance of secrecy and security in the conduct of the war in which your people are engaged. If it may not discomfort you too much to hear this, your majesty, I wish you success against the backwards and reactionary forces that oppose your enlightened rule. With sincere respect: Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Citizen Alexandros Avrakotos, Adjutant, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire: Oh, gently caress the empress! Who does she think she is, anyway?  I admit I still feel out of place in a kingdom like this - even though it's been a few months since I arrived. All the formal ritual, the system of greetings, the ranks of dress enforced by sumptuary laws. It's almost too much to understand. The palace is stone quiet. Nobody talks when they eat. The streets are too quiet, without wheeled carriages on the cobblestones. And there are so many gilded decorations and statues I almost get a headache. And - to be honest - the last time I was in a palace like this, so many years ago, I broke the door in with an axe. You're right, my friend. They're frightened because they barely got out of the last war, and they see the other kingdoms falling down like dominoes. Tear down the emperor and smash their throne, as the saying goes. I admit it's been so many years since our own days of revolution, and as you know I could talk about them for hours, but seeing this is the kind of news that gets me out of bed in the morning. And, if I am being completely honest, it is still a bit of a thrill to see the aristocrats all shift about in their seats when ambassadors from a revolutionary republic are announced. Maybe the empress herself, but they seat me so far away in the court that I can barely see anything she does. Tibet rules China, but it is still Tibet.  It's not like we can afford sugar in our coffee every day or new silk clothes all the time but that doesn't matter. I'm still attached to our republic, and I miss it dearly. Being sent to this godforsaken post is enough to remind me of how precious our freedom truly is. This was once something like a 'republic', if a flawed one run by a gang of thieves. Though we are both frightened that our way of life might come to an end - except we are fighting for the liberty of the people, and they for the prestige and sterile lies of a few. I don't doubt that for a moment. Best regards: Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Citizen Mirna Hovhannisian, Military Attache from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire:   I have heard most unusual stories about the Tibetan campaign against the Punjabis and their allies over the claims to dominion over China. Assuming that these are not total fabrications, what are the implications of these victories, and is there any possibility for the reconstitution of the armies of their opponents?  From what areas do the Tibetans conscript further troops? What noble families provide their current group of generals? I don't think they're going to open up the tombs that weren't looted, or search the mountainside for any more Purgyal bones. Please write back to me immediately. Best regards: Citizen Maaza Amanuel To General Dorje Sonam Wangdi, General of the Tibetan Empire, Western Expeditionary Force:  Please accept my congratulations on the news of your great victories at Bhuratpur and elsewhere.  The record established by your army's heroism and brilliance is unparalleled in Tibet's long and glorious history, and your own conduct has won the attention of observers around the world.   From south to north, from Delhi to the Tarim Basin and the great steppe, I regard the successes and achievements of your campaigns with utmost respect. Sincerely: Citizen Maaza Amanuel, Ambassador from the Republic of Anatolia To Citizen Alexandros Avrakotos, Adjutant, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire:   It seems that this general Dorje has outdone herself - I'm hearing of an apocalyptic battle just south of Lahore, the great trading city.  We had heard the drumbeat on the wall and saw the signal flares burn. At this point, we can safely assume that the invading forces are lost.  and not even the Tocharians or Saka, brought down from Altishahr will save Punjab. The old empire cannot overpower the new one, it seems.   It seems that not only is the new empire of Tashi Dbas here to stay for the time being, but it may even expand to the west and north at Punjab's expense. My assumption is that most if not all of Kashmir as well as the Tarim Basin will be transferred over to Tibetan control. This is a vast but lightly populated territory, and may cause some expense for the imperial administration in the future, not to mention further garrisons. I wonder if I am unfortunate enough to witness that rarest of creatures -- a competent monarch, one who is not foolish or ignorant or merely selfish. One whose skill at cruelty may prolong the survival of their ancient and brutal system by a few more decades. Alternately, if General Dorje's reputation continues to soar like an eagle over the rest, then I wonder if she might try and overthrow the empress and seize the throne for herself? Hard to tell. Best regards: Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Citizen Alexandros Avrakotos, Adjutant, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire: Thank you for the information you have provided. I will inform the Committee on Foreign Matters as follows:  The Sacred Tibetan Empire, based in Surat, attempted to demand the return of territory taken in Kashmir from Punjab by the Celestial Empire. The Celestial Empire (the one based in Lhasa) refused. The Sacred Empire backed down and did not press the claims. This means that the Sacred Empire is not willing or able to regain territory lost to the Celestial Empire.  The Tibetans, having survived this period of disaster and free of immediate threats, had reorganized their army to include border regions and drill local militias.   That said, the Tibetans still lack the power to intervene far outside of their own borders or outside of China -- and therefore our attempts to support revolutionary governments by the overthrow of their monarchies, the foundation of friendly republics, and the securing of our people's commerce can continue.  The Tibetan countryside is the process of a slow recovery after years of pillaging and warfare, with armies having plundered what they can.  My view, from having asked jurists and bureaucrats in court that I have befriended, is that the empress may make gestures to prevent further rebellions, including edicts of further toleration and relaxations on limitations on debate and association. It's easy enough to sneak out of the house in ordinary clothes, order a bowl of watery hot soup in a little stall, sit down next to a real flesh and blood Tibetan at a wooden bench, some student from the monastery or some big-armed workman with a rope club, and have a chat. This land is distant and remote but with some effort there it can feel almost comfortable. Long live the republic, and death to tyrants: Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Citizen Alexandros Avrakotos, Deputy Ambassador, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire: Alex, my friend: Much has happened over the last few weeks while you were away in Gauda. It seems I've been invited closer to the circle of the imperial court. After all those years of just sitting around and waiting for something to happen, all that daydreaming and reading in the libraries, I've been summoned to closer observe the centers of power. I shall keep quiet, observe everything, and say little - as ambassadors do. I was invited to visit the summer palace, just to the southwest of the old Potala fortress. There are some gardens there, a zoo of animals, and even some flowering trees that I recognized - very little fruit, as the climate was too inhospitable for that. It still felt so obscene, that such plenty was given to the empress by an accident of birth or some noble's favor. The empress, as she is, is just another person, but with better clothes and she doesn't show any emotions on her face.  Their purpose for inviting me was obvious. It was easy to gather that Shun, the largest remaining kingdom in what was once a single empire in all of China, was under attack by the perfidious Egyptians and the Ethiopian Kingdom to the south. The empress, like an eager pupil who had not finished their assignment but wanting to make a good impression on the teacher, asked me so many questions about Egypt and Ethiopia, the state of their farms and fields, and what was the nature of their armies.  Their line of questioning concluded, Tibetan armies were marched down to the east to join in on the plunder.  As it appears that the Sacred Empire has been unable to act for years, and Ayutthaya is beset by trouble, the Tibetans saw no risk in further campaigns in China.  All this time, I was thinking of our distant republic, and wondering if I was committing some betrayal by speaking to or bowing to an Empress, that embodiment of tyranny, and not trying to strike her down where she stood. I thought of the crowds cheering as they tore down the statues of the corrupt and those who had squeezed the life out of the people for thousands of years. In that movement of people, crying out for liberty and a nation of laws, not tyrants, I felt the most alive I had ever felt. And now I feel as if I was committing blasphemy, and the eyes of everyone back home are on me. But ambassadors must do these things for the benefit of those back home. Those other aristocrats whispered among themselves about an illegitimate government when the herald announced "Anatolian Republic", but the empress herself was charming, cheerful. I stayed in the palace often. A welcome host, and if she was only a welcoming host I would not protest.   In subsequent visits, I was invited to attend councils of state and discussions on policy; and I was able to hear firsthand the news of Tibetan victories in the near east.   From there, salons on philosophy and art. It was as if the empress would say, "You see? This is a land of culture, I am the monarch who provides safety for my people, that they may cultivate wisdom." The old noble houses are around, but faded, impoverished, distant - none seem to have the immediate authority to challenge this system. There is still a church, and factions within it, but they too are weak. It is a matter of bureaucracy and factions within it now.  And from there, the wars were concluded - swiftly, with all of the new lands incorporated into the new provinces of Hubei and Gansu now part of the Empire.   Tibet's neighbors raised a protest, refusing to accept Tibetan administration of the new territory. They launched fierce attacks, and the empress listened before dismissing them with a wave of the hand.   The empire expands; to cover its own debts and recover its armies, the once-independent Kingdom of Nepal - really a collection of so many feudal lords - was annexed into the greater Empire.   It is obvious, the immediate symbolism of this act - the empress is declaring herself a successor in all but name to the great and wise philosopher-queens of antiquity, Gyalyum the Benevolent and Pakmodru Tse the Lucky. The stone friezes and religious icons of the new empress paying homage to the great rulers of old are now to be seen all over Lhasa and elsewhere. Whenever I go on my usual walk, or go to my favorite food stalls, they are everywhere. And where the stories told of empresses of old ruling by a sword, teaching her followers in their felt tents how to read and bringing order out of feuding aristocracy, this new empress also calls herself enlightened and tolerant; a servant of the people, defender of civilization and head of a great state, reformer of the bureaucracy that rules for the good of all, that they may grow wise and prosperous. Turns my stomach, really. Enough about me, I'm almost out of paper and powder for my ink -- please write back on the trading situation as soon as possible. I'll attach the new tax schedule I've got a draft of. Long live the republic, Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Citizen Alexandros Avrakotos, Adjutant, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire: I am most aggrieved to hear that you are unwell! I've sent my best man to assist you with what you need, he should be here with the letter. I've also talked to Father Thomas at your church and they'll be praying for you - as am I. I've asked my friends around Lhasa to send what they can, and as they know me, they know that you are my friend and will do what they can for you.  There is much to report: I've attached several copies of the mercantile papers and brought them to you with this letter. Orders of production abound.  The empress' brother is dead of smallpox; she had secluded herself for a while in mourning.  They say that this an age of enlightenment, and my presence in these salons means that I am bombarded with such talk constantly, as constant and giving me as many headaches as the steady barrage of cannon-fire.  Except for seeing the exhibition of some novel device or mechanism such as the 'steam-boiler', some loud heavy cart that moved at the pace of a slow walk, I admit I feel very depressed and melancholy.  The merchants themselves, as you have reported frequently, are angry and confused over taxation and changes in policy - there are too many competing regulations for them to earn their living, and there really is just the local bureaucracy, full of petty bullies and local tyrants, and the empress at the top, who is revered.  And don't get me started on trying to talk to the guards and the generals. Dorje Sonam Wangdi herself is a modest figure, perhaps too modest for all of the responsibilities she has. Still, she's better than most of the rest, and I'm not sure if they can read or do arithmetic.  There is a growing facsimile of liberty here - where there are many peoples who can coexist, and the ancient and futile wars of the past fade out. There are many churches, and they do not kill each other so much anymore.  Still, the empress has a niece now, and so the bodge of royal succession can continue for another day. We'll see if the new one is any good or not.  I hear distant rumors of anti-monarchical feeling on the steppe - here's hoping it ends up like ours, or at least we can send some aid their way. Your loyal friend, Citizen Maaza Amanuel To Mr. Kelsang Dharma, of the Gyelmo Ngul Chu Trading Company: I would be delighted to attend your salon next week.   While I understand there is to be limited discussion on the conduct of the war against the Luoluo,  I would be delighted to participate in the other topics of discussion, particularly on the implications of the growth of cities -- from which I can hope to contribute with my own experiences in Anatolia,  I especially look forward to the talk by none other than Mr. Tritog Jetsen Mangmoje, of Dartsedo - I have heard much about his most profound ideas expressed in the most perspicuous language. With respect and gratitude: Citizen Maaza Amanuel, Ambassador from the Anatolian Republic To Citizen Mirna Hovhannisian, Military Attache from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire:  I honestly don't know what you expect me to say - I know as much as you did about this Tibetan war. The Luoluo army was scattered after one battle,  and the kingdom was annexed. That's it, that's all there is, all the history of the world summed up in that.  I do have news for you from a more immediate source - General Dorje Sonam Wangdi, perhaps the greatest general Tibet has had in decades, is dead. I saw the empress herself, the night she received the news. She tore open the dispatch latter, looked out the window for a moment, and said nothing. She's charming enough, but inside I think it's just a block of ice.   We should meet up again soon, there is much else to discuss. What is this news I have heard about Mali? The old Mansas are losing everything?  and we spread the revolution by going west and liberating their colonies? I beg you, let me know more!   I must get out of Lhasa. It was as if the countryside had become a host to armed camps, and the empress herself lounged upon a line of bayonets. Army people are not as fun to talk to as the city folk. Of course, if that army ever collapsed, then all of China, Burma, and all the rest, would scatter off into a thousand directions. Long live the republic, and death to tyrants: Citizen Maaza Amanuel, Ambassador from the Anatolian Republic To Ambassador Alexandros Avrakotos, Embassy from the Anatolian Republic to the Tibetan Empire: Alex, my friend, congratulations. I mean that. You are the best possible candidate for this post, and I have said on many occasions that you would be the best person to do so. I shall at least tell you how I came to be dismissed; for your friendship all these years, it is the least I can do to tell you what happened and where it broke down.  The Empress, after the death of her brother, her right-hand general, and so on, grew more isolated, more focused on the work of government. And so she went to have longer conversations with us ambassadors - the interpreter would speak into her one good ear.   But then she grew more paranoid, dismissing the ambassadors from our sister Timurid Republic, and then for the Kingdom of Ayutthaya, as a result of conspiracies either real or imagined.  And for me? Well, she said she know exactly what I was for, and what I wanted. She said she knew the republic would be for the overthrow of all kingdoms, when the opportunity arose, and so she admired that honesty.  She concealed her movements from the court, from her servants, and spent hours alone with her statistics, her work orders, her laws.  This was around the time that the Ethiopian Kingdom ambassador was expelled.  And now the rest of the old Tibetan Empire has gotten itself entangled in a war with it over the Red Sea trade. But I digress.  It was a night in early spring - where almost everywhere else in the empire would be getting rain but the plateau is more barren.  I was sitting alone in a waiting room, with my cup of coffee when I heard footsteps behind me, and the voice of the empress, asking me if I was in the mood for a conversation. I tensed up, nearly dropping my book out of shock. No one else was there, no servants, just the two of us. She asked if I was in the mood for conversation. I agreed. We began with the usual formalities, well-wishes, the flowery speech that, in ambassadorial work, stalls for time, lets the talkers size up their counterparts, and is rarely without purpose.  She then asked - demanded - to know why, I, as a diplomat, did not harangue and lecture others about my republic for all my years of service, as my predecessor had, and why so many other diplomats from the Anatolian Republic did elsewhere. It would be easy to have me thrown out, for me to disappear in the plateau of the north. I said that yes, I did believe in my republic, but my goal was to advance its interests, learn about distant places, and pass along communication, to serve the interests of the people.  At this, she tried to be conciliatory. "You serve the people," she said, "and so do I. Every new field cultivated, every house put up, every swamp drained is an act of good for the people. And I act aggressively in war that it not be prolonged." I had heard this before, and this time I had had enough. I told her, the anger rising in my voice, "But you have gone to war with your own people in the past before, and you have not let them forget about it." At this, she said nothing, only tapping her fingers on the table, her gaze shifting around the room. "Well, let us not be so passionate. You don't expect me to give up my reasoning so quickly. This is not a world where one person's selfishness can abrogate greater principles. Believe me, we have to just forget about things and do our duty. We have our laws, and they go as far as the armies enforce them. The revolution uses its own force, and so it rules in the name of the people." "Force to remove injustice is always better than force to perpetuate injustice."  "I agree. He who advances will seek paradise, and she who retreats will go to hell", she said. "And believe me, this is not the war of duels or feudal conduct as before. It is perhaps like the conquests of the Mongolians under Temulun, or Lasya the Holy, or.... your Khalid ibn al-Walid."  "The elephants vanish, the old families and old monarchy are gone. The world is harsh and cruel, but I have done my duty, in any case." She spoke quietly, in the faintest whisper that I could hear only in that silence. I knew that no one else could hear, and I had the feeling that no one else would believe me if I repeated what she said.  "I have avenged the death of the second Pakmodru Tse, as flawed as she was, by tearing up the Purgyals from the root. They are gone and their power is exhausted. The evil was thus expelled from Tibet, and delusion with it." I said nothing, my breath caught in my throat in shock. Madness. "So you see? Perhaps we can agree after all. There are times when a royal line must go, as all things must go, and somebody else has to take their place. That is why we had you around for so long, because you understand that some things are not so sacred as to last forever." She rang a bell to call for the servant, who came in a short time later. Then she said, "The ambassador is finished." And that was all.  I received a letter expelling me the next day, and it seems you have been allowed to stay and replace me. And now the world moves ahead. MAP: 1750 
Kangxi fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 29, 2021 |
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Apr 18, 2021 21:23
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Wow, there's nowhere in the world that doesn't have borders that are an absolute mess
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Apr 18, 2021 22:49
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big corea
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Apr 19, 2021 00:37
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VideoWitch posted:Wow, there's nowhere in the world that doesn't have borders that are an absolute mess It fuckin owns. Especially the British Isles. Having just read a bunch about oppressive liberal regimes (notably the Porfiriato), I can't help but think: is Anatolia liberating overseas colonies or "liberating" overseas colonies?
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Apr 19, 2021 02:16
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Tulip posted:It fuckin owns. Especially the British Isles. Yes.
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Apr 19, 2021 02:58
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Tulip posted:It fuckin owns. Especially the British Isles. they're securing their commerce and the invisible hand of the market is just coming into vogue. Take a guess
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Apr 19, 2021 03:12
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Carantania  And amazingly we got the revenge of Tse 
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Apr 19, 2021 07:29
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I'll make a State of the World post for 1750 in a few days, is there anything that anybody would like me to point out? I know the map resembles the Holy Roman Empire of our world but I'll do my best to explain what I can.
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Apr 20, 2021 14:09
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Pacho posted:And amazingly we got the revenge of Tse I am so upset by this turn of events. I knew that she'd strike out against us even from the grave!
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Apr 20, 2021 14:11
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Kangxi posted:I'll make a State of the World post for 1750 in a few days, is there anything that anybody would like me to point out? I know the map resembles the Holy Roman Empire of our world but I'll do my best to explain what I can. It's not so much a thing from the game as from your head but I'd love to see the Anatolian Republic's philosophy and foreign policy approach spelled out.
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Apr 20, 2021 14:12
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Can you highlight what’s going on in OTL Russia because jesus christ
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Apr 20, 2021 14:50
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I'd love more details on what is going on with the British Isle. Also, are the Khazars still kicking?
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Apr 20, 2021 17:32
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Well we definitely need to know how the Pirate Confederacy of So in the OTL Ryukyus are doing. Probably as part fo a bigger piece on wtf it going on with Japan and the rest of East Asia. Also, what's going on with that part of the Aleutians that isn't owned by the Salish. The bit of a clusterfuck in OTL New England might be work taking a look at as well though probably inconsequential to us and our allies. The deceptively large swaths in North Asia are probably something to look at too though it may not be worth much if we were to posses it.
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Apr 20, 2021 21:40
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Wait, by "isolated Tiara settlements" in Siberia does that mean like from the Japanese Isles Taira?
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Apr 20, 2021 21:50
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I'm curious about the Tangut state in Siberia.
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Apr 20, 2021 22:02
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Love to hear how Atjunta's doing. And Maguindanao. What's the religious/development situation like, in particular?
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Apr 21, 2021 00:10
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| # ? May 29, 2024 06:28 |
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That chapter was amazing, especially the ambassador and Empress at the end. For world update the usual not-California and Japan from me. Does that pink mean Japan's gone to pirates? Please tell me they have the Pirate Republic government type. What would it take to dismantle the Sacred Empire? Is that feasible.
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Apr 21, 2021 06:45
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