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I'm having a good time with NGU Industries, there are always several carrots in front of you and it's not always obvious which one to go for first (and sometimes it's the right thing to go for more than one at a time). I get the feeling that once you get past the early game you won't need to re-spec nearly as often. Seems like it could be a side-effect of the insane progress you make in the first day.
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Apr 6, 2021 21:34
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pixaal posted:When is the expansion to NGU: NGD where you have to save the universe from yourself by going back to zero in stats coming out? ah, universal paperclips
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Apr 6, 2021 21:39
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Is there not a keyboard shortcut or the like for swapping buildings in a layout (to organize things/reduce visual clutter when possible) or did I just miss it?
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Apr 6, 2021 21:49
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TengenNewsEditor posted:I'm having a good time with NGU Industries, there are always several carrots in front of you and it's not always obvious which one to go for first (and sometimes it's the right thing to go for more than one at a time). In addition to this I feel like unlocking blueprint slots goes a long was as well. I only have 2 but I can see how it'll save a lot of time to be able to have your tier 1 juice blueprint, tier 2 juice, army blueprint, etc.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:04
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Arzaac posted:In addition to this I feel like unlocking blueprint slots goes a long was as well. I only have 2 but I can see how it'll save a lot of time to be able to have your tier 1 juice blueprint, tier 2 juice, army blueprint, etc. Yeah, in the beginning of the game if you save a blueprint it's obsolete 15 minutes later - but about a day into it the newbie gains are petering out and they're starting to become a little more useful.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:20
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Arzaac posted:In addition to this I feel like unlocking blueprint slots goes a long was as well. I only have 2 but I can see how it'll save a lot of time to be able to have your tier 1 juice blueprint, tier 2 juice, army blueprint, etc. Not really, because of how fiddly everything is and how upgrades break equilibrium. You can design a perfect resource generation setup, change one upgrade, then have to redo the whole thing anyway. I'm not even using blueprints because they're out of date almost as soon as they're saved.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:20
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I started Industries about a day ago and I'm having an okay time with it. I'd say a good rule of thumb is to think about production as top-down (like what bubbapook posted last page, start your layout with the intended final products and then add more of whatever's in the red) and upgrades as bottom-up (yeah those +100% production upgrades are attractive but if you don't have enough iron/copper production upgrades it's gonna be a slog). And try to save building army units until you're able to build them alongside every tier of think juice, which is going to require pretty much every non-red upgrade available to you. That's gotten me through the tutorial island without much fuss. A good amount of waiting though, but it's a friggin idle game.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:21
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New Yorp New Yorp posted:Not really, because of how fiddly everything is and how upgrades break equilibrium. You can design a perfect resource generation setup, change one upgrade, then have to redo the whole thing anyway. I'm not even using blueprints because they're out of date almost as soon as they're saved. tinstaach posted:I started Industries about a day ago and I'm having an okay time with it. I'd say a good rule of thumb is to think about production as top-down (like what bubbapook posted last page, start your layout with the intended final products and then add more of whatever's in the red) and upgrades as bottom-up (yeah those +100% production upgrades are attractive but if you don't have enough iron/copper production upgrades it's gonna be a slog). This, basically. You don't have to remake your pipeline every time you get an upgrade, if an upgrade puts a resource in the red you can focus on that resource for your next upgrade. Or alternatively, upgrade from the bottom up so that never happens. And besides, unless you're focusing on storing a lot of one resource, going in the red doesn't break anything. You might not be operating as efficiently as possible, but you'll be generating your final resource at about the same speed, if not faster.
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Apr 6, 2021 22:40
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Wife and I are interested in Idleon, curious what the goon guild is?
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Apr 6, 2021 23:05
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Atoramos posted:Wife and I are interested in Idleon, curious what the goon guild is? 'pizza is free'
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Apr 6, 2021 23:06
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NGU industries makes me wonder if i have OCD. Having to scatter my building around is driving me crazy and is actively turning me off the game. It’s a shame, because i love the concept. The min/maxer perfect base builder in me just won’t let me enjoy jt.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:12
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wemgo posted:NGU industries makes me wonder if i have OCD. Having to scatter my building around is driving me crazy and is actively turning me off the game. It’s a shame, because i love the concept. The min/maxer perfect base builder in me just won’t let me enjoy jt. Yeah this is kinda what I was getting at earlier when I asked if there was some kind of an autosort function. Problem is not only OCD related things but also it does actually get tough to find open spaces or the one building when everything's all scattered around the map. This makes me want to keep things organized but with the amount of tearing down and rebuilding I just don't want to put the effort in to do it every time I rebuild.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:44
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Arzaac posted:This, basically. You don't have to remake your pipeline every time you get an upgrade, if an upgrade puts a resource in the red you can focus on that resource for your next upgrade. Or alternatively, upgrade from the bottom up so that never happens. The other major thing that I've discovered so far is that the right way to idle it is to get your system producing the think juices you want, then idle on that until you can buy a shitton of upgrades, then buy those upgrades and rebuild. Once all your numbers are white or blue, shove some lower-end producers into the remaining slots to clear out some land. If you get a tier upgrade, don't immediately ram through to the next set of think juices; get all the upgrades the old juices buy first, since they'll boost your low-level producers heavily. If you're picking up individual upgrades you'll be rejigging your base a lot.
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Apr 6, 2021 23:44
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the only QoL thing that comes to mind, and this is probably because of ethereal farm, it would be nice if based on your current amount/production of something if you could see a timer for how long until you have enough of things for a particular research or land unlock. for example, i need 1m copper bars to unlock a slot on toot island, and if on the tooltip there was a (3h 23m 4s) or something next to it to let me know how soon my current production will take to get me there otherwise, so far so good on having a completely indecipherable layout
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Apr 6, 2021 23:50
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Atoramos posted:Wife and I are interested in Idleon, curious what the goon guild is? We have a discord, as well: https://discord.gg/n8AFKAjtFe Come play, theres a big big content upgrade coming in the next few weeks
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Apr 6, 2021 23:52
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Feline Mind Meld posted:the only QoL thing that comes to mind, and this is probably because of ethereal farm, it would be nice if based on your current amount/production of something if you could see a timer for how long until you have enough of things for a particular research or land unlock. for example, i need 1m copper bars to unlock a slot on toot island, and if on the tooltip there was a (3h 23m 4s) or something next to it to let me know how soon my current production will take to get me there Yeah this was something that I would have really liked to see too, even just as an indicator for whether or not I'd be capable of buying the thing eventually given my current setup
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Apr 6, 2021 23:52
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NGU Industries: Why are some buildings not affected by speed beacons? Are all buildings affected by production beacons? Do efficiency beacons only matter when they change the whole-number value of an ingredient? E.g. if the base ingredient is 2, it doesn't help until you get up to -50% to make it 1 instead?
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Apr 7, 2021 00:16
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Devor posted:NGU Industries: 2. Yes, but it rounds down so for buildings with very small production values, you may not get any bonus. This rounding becomes irrelevant very quickly, tho. 3. v0v
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Apr 7, 2021 00:23
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Does anyone have any tips for an efficient pink juice setup in NGUI? I left the game up overnight to fill up on the first three colors and have literally every upgrade that does not require pink juice, and I still need pretty much my entire setup to produce a single tile of pink stuff. The big bottleneck seems to be how much Decent Wiring you need for how little it produces by default, so maybe I should focus my pink juice upgrades on stuff that improves wiring?
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Apr 7, 2021 00:26
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Infinity Gaia posted:Does anyone have any tips for an efficient pink juice setup in NGUI? I left the game up overnight to fill up on the first three colors and have literally every upgrade that does not require pink juice, and I still need pretty much my entire setup to produce a single tile of pink stuff. The big bottleneck seems to be how much Decent Wiring you need for how little it produces by default, so maybe I should focus my pink juice upgrades on stuff that improves wiring? Taking your entire map to fuel 1-2 top tier juice tiles sounds entirely normal to me and has been pretty much my experience for how2upgrade.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:28
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Toshimo posted:Taking your entire map to fuel 1-2 top tier juice tiles sounds entirely normal to me and has been pretty much my experience for how2upgrade. Agree. My approach is: Can my map make 1 tile of the highest juice? If yes, do that a while. Fill extra tiles with lower juice. If it can't make 1 tile of pink, then try to make as much of the toughest ingredient (e.g. rockets) while I idle a while, then run my map as much as I can, letting rockets run a little red.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:31
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How aggressively are you using beacons? You probably just need to use more if them. They're very effective when you're boosting the newest tech layer that doesn't have many purchased upgrades yet.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:32
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Jabor posted:How aggressively are you using beacons? You probably just need to use more if them. 
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Apr 7, 2021 00:33
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Toshimo posted:Aggressively. Not optimally, but aggressively. I feel attacked. Also the gameplay loop doesn't feel good 
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Apr 7, 2021 00:36
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Devor posted:NGU Industries: Correct- for the pink juice as an example, with 1x production you need 5 efficiency beacons to get the bonus high (low?) enough to shave off a chip and a rocket fuel. Way more useful as you get productivity modifiers so you're not murdered by rounding up.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:44
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Devor posted:
I had a telephone conversation with a friend about this today and we both came to that same conclusion. It doesn't matter if it's optimal or even okay to have a bunch of numbers go red, it just feels really bad, especially if you have to go do something else and leave it like that and Hope that you don't bottom out on production. Just normal play feels really bad, especially when it's difficult to tell if you're actually doing things right at all. It doesn't have the binary success/failure of killing a Titan or advancing a zone, you know you're just kind of doing things but you don't know if they're the right things and it feels bad a lot. Add to this that there's still a lot of UI gotchas, especially when it's difficult to tell what's flavor text and what's actually game text. ISOPOD feels futile. It's not progression with a goal, it's RNG where it's not needed. Add to that that the things basically a black box where I have to come back and cycle through levels until I find the right one, and it's just  .NGU Idle was a path where you started learning how to optimize, but the direction was clear, and you could focus the thing you were short on. NGU Industries is a sandbox where optimization is obfuscated away by UI shortcomings and increasingly complicated math sims, with an RNG stapled on. The prototypical NGU Industries experience to me is:
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Apr 7, 2021 00:53
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Toshimo posted:
I gave up on attempting piecemeal fixes really fast. I feel like I would like it more if I had one island for each tier, and that island could never go red by purchasing upgrades. Buying upgrades and ruining my current layout means that I dread buying upgrades. It makes the game feel like work instead of a fun achievement.
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Apr 7, 2021 00:59
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NGU Industries - I can't seem to download from Steam at all. I click on the "play now" button in the store and it does nothing. Any ideas?
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Apr 7, 2021 01:01
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inspire posted:NGU Industries - I can't seem to download from Steam at all. I click on the "play now" button in the store and it does nothing. Any ideas? Not being a smartass: Try downloading a different free game and see if it's specific to this one or if it's a general problem with your Steam.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:04
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inspire posted:NGU Industries - I can't seem to download from Steam at all. I click on the "play now" button in the store and it does nothing. Any ideas?
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Apr 7, 2021 01:09
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Toshimo posted:I had a telephone conversation with a friend about this today and we both came to that same conclusion. It doesn't matter if it's optimal or even okay to have a bunch of numbers go red, it just feels really bad, especially if you have to go do something else and leave it like that and Hope that you don't bottom out on production. Just normal play feels really bad, especially when it's difficult to tell if you're actually doing things right at all. It doesn't have the binary success/failure of killing a Titan or advancing a zone, you know you're just kind of doing things but you don't know if they're the right things and it feels bad a lot. Add to this that there's still a lot of UI gotchas, especially when it's difficult to tell what's flavor text and what's actually game text. ISOPOD feels futile. It's not progression with a goal, it's RNG where it's not needed. Add to that that the things basically a black box where I have to come back and cycle through levels until I find the right one, and it's just This is a good post that voices my frustrations pretty well. It sucks to optimize something to only end up breaking your optimization and forcing you to restart. The UI gets in the way as well by forcing you to use tooltips for pretty much everything. The diminishing returns on research seems super harsh and i hate having to hover over individual things to compare them.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:10
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Toshimo posted:Not being a smartass: Try downloading a different free game and see if it's specific to this one or if it's a general problem with your Steam.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:11
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I think the point about researches being punishing is a good one. While the production / speed upgrades are great, there are way fewer efficiency upgrades (which lets you reduce the amount of input to make an output) and afaik no output multipliers. It feels like a third branch of research that change it so that you can squeeze more out of a resource chain without having to completely rework the inputs would feel better -- for example, if there was just a plain "you make 50% more frames from the input materials", "you have a 10% chance to make an additional microchip per cycle", etc. Those would be examples of upgrades that wouldn't require retooling a production chain beyond being able to trim away some of the extra producers you have to overcome a bottleneck.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:18
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Toshimo posted:I had a telephone conversation with a friend about this today and we both came to that same conclusion. It doesn't matter if it's optimal or even okay to have a bunch of numbers go red, it just feels really bad, especially if you have to go do something else and leave it like that and Hope that you don't bottom out on production. Just normal play feels really bad, especially when it's difficult to tell if you're actually doing things right at all. It doesn't have the binary success/failure of killing a Titan or advancing a zone, you know you're just kind of doing things but you don't know if they're the right things and it feels bad a lot. Add to this that there's still a lot of UI gotchas, especially when it's difficult to tell what's flavor text and what's actually game text. ISOPOD feels futile. It's not progression with a goal, it's RNG where it's not needed. Add to that that the things basically a black box where I have to come back and cycle through levels until I find the right one, and it's just As the aforementioned friend, I can also mentioned that I compared NGU Idle and Industries to Minecraft modpacks. NGU Idle is similar to a normal grindy modpack where incremental increases in production have a noticeable effect for a few minutes of effort. NGU Industries has the feeling of a Kappa/Titan/Greg Tech pack that requires three hours of minutiae crafting to extract a 0.1% increase in production rate.
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Apr 7, 2021 01:23
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honestly beacons introduce a level of difficulty that is too hard for my brain with how often i have to retool things
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Apr 7, 2021 01:43
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So I'm checking the filter options for research and for some reason there's no filter for tiers of think juice. Gonna be a bit tedious looking through the recipes for things I didn't get earlier this way...
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Apr 7, 2021 01:53
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:So I'm checking the filter options for research and for some reason there's no filter for tiers of think juice. Gonna be a bit tedious looking through the recipes for things I didn't get earlier this way... Don't they just get filtered to the tier they are produced at?
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Apr 7, 2021 01:56
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Toshimo posted:Don't they just get filtered to the tier they are produced at? No, the tech tier bonus filters filter out any research that affects the tier turned off only. Tier 1 researches that require Tier 3 juice still show up with Tier 3 turned off, while Tier 3 researches that require only Tier 1 and 2 juice do not. May not be a huge issue now while I'm still less than the first day in, but still...
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Apr 7, 2021 02:09
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You can filter to only stuff you can afford, which helps some after you've transitioned to a new tier but still have a bunch of earlier tech juice saved up. But yeah I think the research screen needs some UX love. Right now it's like "the bare minimum required for you to technically be able to research things", and it's in dire need of some QoL improvements like "being able to see what techs do without hovering over them".
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Apr 7, 2021 02:17
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Also showing explicitly what techs actually do would be huge for people figuring the game out themselves. Like, when you're looking at an upgrade that gives "100% production", show on the tooltip what the current production multiplier of the affected things is, and what it's going to become.
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Apr 7, 2021 02:21
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